Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 6 post(s) |
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CCP Habakuk
C C P C C P Alliance
1603
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Posted - 2016.09.19 13:41:29 -
[1] - Quote
Hi.
Withing the next few days we are planning to deploy a new mirror to Singularity. The copy from TQ was already taken.
Citadels: There was quite some concern regarding mirroring Citadels from TQ to Singularity due to spying issues. Unfortunately this is not an as easy task as for Starbases, as we would need to do a lot of cleanup to prevent for example stuck clones or contracts. After several internal discussions and also discussing this with the CSM we are currently leaning towards following proposal:
- Keep all Citadels in place (the position of Citadels is the least worry to most parties)
- Delete all fitting of all Citadels, except Structure Services
- Move all assets of Citadels in W-space into asset safety and fake this asset safety packet to be located in 6-CZ49
- There is slight chance that the previous step is not doable as it might be too slow, in this case we would fall back to just trash all assets from W-Space Citadels.
As far as I can see this should prevent nearly all concerns with spying, while still leaving the test environment in a healthy state.
Please give feedback on this solution, but please keep in mind that we discussed this already for quite some time internally and rejected several other proposals due to various limitations. Mostly interesting: Did we miss any issues with spying? Feel free to send me a pm, if you have any confidential information to be considered.
CCP Habakuk | EVE Quality Assurance | Team Five 0 | (Team Gridlock)
Bug reporting | Mass Testing
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Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
6187
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Posted - 2016.09.19 13:56:45 -
[2] - Quote
Not a perfect solution, but I can't think of a better one which doesn't involve *breaking* the code just for Singularity. Which would defeat the point of it.
Woo! CSM XI!
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
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Sullen Decimus
Polaris Rising The Bastion
25
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Posted - 2016.09.19 13:58:15 -
[3] - Quote
I realize that for some of you this will not be what you want as it means WH'ers will essentially have to move assets back to the hole after mirror. I recommend utilizing the "moveme" command to do so.
This is the best solution that could be come up with as writing specialty code for SISI defeats the purpose of the server as a test bed. Regardless I think we can all agree that this is a far better situation than current.
Twitter: Sullen_Decimus
Tweetfleet: @sullen_decimus
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Zand Vor
Anomalous Existence Spatial Instability
16
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Posted - 2016.09.19 14:06:06 -
[4] - Quote
Hmm...I'm missing the reasoning why citadels need to be mirrored at all?
Or is it just easier to copy everything on TQ over to SISI and be done? |
Sullen Decimus
Polaris Rising The Bastion
25
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Posted - 2016.09.19 14:11:51 -
[5] - Quote
Zand Vor wrote:Hmm...I'm missing the reasoning why citadels need to be mirrored at all?
Or is it just easier to copy everything on TQ over to SISI and be done?
Citadels are closer to outpost (mirrored) than pos (not mirrored). The key is they want the code on SISI as close to tranquility as possible. This is the best solution to leave the SISI code intact while removing the intelligence aspect.
Twitter: Sullen_Decimus
Tweetfleet: @sullen_decimus
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The Judge
Balkan Mafia Circle-Of-Two
36
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Posted - 2016.09.19 14:20:14 -
[6] - Quote
This is definitely a good middle ground given what would need to happen for anything different. Glad you could jump on this so quickly Habakuk!
CSM XI Permanent Attendee
Head Diplomat for Circle-Of-Two
@_TheJudge on Twitter | TheJudge on Tweetfleet Slack
[email protected]
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CCP Habakuk
C C P C C P Alliance
1605
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Posted - 2016.09.19 14:23:35 -
[7] - Quote
Sullen Decimus wrote:Zand Vor wrote:Hmm...I'm missing the reasoning why citadels need to be mirrored at all?
Or is it just easier to copy everything on TQ over to SISI and be done? Citadels are closer to outpost (mirrored) than pos (not mirrored). The key is they want the code on SISI as close to tranquility as possible. This is the best solution to leave the SISI code intact while removing the intelligence aspect.
To add to this: It is much easier to exclude starbases than to exclude citadels. For starbases we delete the starbase items and drop a few database tables. For Citadels we would need to fix some other stuff, like your jump clones, homestation, market orders, contracts and similar. We are currently handling all of this when a Citadel blows up, but this would be a bit tricky and time-consuming as mirror preparation step.
CCP Habakuk | EVE Quality Assurance | Team Five 0 | (Team Gridlock)
Bug reporting | Mass Testing
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Zand Vor
Anomalous Existence Spatial Instability
16
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Posted - 2016.09.19 14:25:20 -
[8] - Quote
Understood. I think you do have a good "middleground" answer with transferring or dumping assets in the Citadel. |
NoobMan
Hard Knocks Inc. Hard Knocks Citizens
297
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Posted - 2016.09.19 14:56:56 -
[9] - Quote
Thanks Jerzii, for killing whlers citadels and recording all the drops...
But ya I think this is good change. you can get a lot of info from what drops, like a ballpark of how many capitals and if they have any secret doctrines.
Operations Director of Hard K(n)ocks Inc.
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Bobmon
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
185
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Posted - 2016.09.19 14:59:45 -
[10] - Quote
Thanks! Good solution
EN24 CEO / Chief Editor
[@BobmonEve][2] - Third Party Service - #HABIT - Bobmon for CSM
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Seraph Essael
Binary Adaption
1211
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Posted - 2016.09.19 15:14:22 -
[11] - Quote
Yep, I'm happy with this. Where my citadel is, is of no concern. What is of concern are the fittings and assets, which you are taking care. I think the removal of assets and fittings is more than enough, in this situation.
Quoted from Doc Fury: "Concerned citizens: Doc seldom plays EVE on the weekends during spring and summer, so you will always be on your own for a couple days a week. Doc spends that time collecting kittens for the on-going sacrifices, engaging in reckless outdoor activities, and speaking in the 3rd person."
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Torvald McBeardson
Natus Ex Igne Perfect Dark
0
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Posted - 2016.09.19 16:34:53 -
[12] - Quote
Seraph Essael wrote:Yep, I'm happy with this. Where my citadel is, is of no concern. What is of concern are the fittings and assets, which you are taking care. I think the removal of assets and fittings is more than enough, in this situation. Actually, they said they're only moving assets from citadels in WH space. People could still blow up a citadel anywhere else and see what drops. Makes me glad I don't keep anything important in citadels, just yet, along with the issue that you can't see personal assets in citadels from the API. |
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CCP Habakuk
C C P C C P Alliance
1606
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Posted - 2016.09.19 16:42:39 -
[13] - Quote
Torvald McBeardson wrote:Seraph Essael wrote:Yep, I'm happy with this. Where my citadel is, is of no concern. What is of concern are the fittings and assets, which you are taking care. I think the removal of assets and fittings is more than enough, in this situation. Actually, they said they're only moving assets from citadels in WH space. People could still blow up a citadel anywhere else and see what drops. Makes me glad I don't keep anything important in citadels, just yet, along with the issue that you can't see personal assets in citadels from the API. Your normal assets do not drop in normal space - they go to asset safety anyway. Only Citadel fittings and similar like fuel would drop.
CCP Habakuk | EVE Quality Assurance | Team Five 0 | (Team Gridlock)
Bug reporting | Mass Testing
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Morwen Lagann
Tyrathlion Interstellar
1876
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Posted - 2016.09.19 16:47:36 -
[14] - Quote
Sullen Decimus wrote:I realize that for some of you this will not be what you want as it means WH'ers will essentially have to move assets back to the hole after mirror. I recommend utilizing the "moveme" command to do so. Unless they've drastically changed how the /moveme command works on Singularity, no, that won't be a thing. They'll have to scout themselves back in and move all their **** into the wormhole one ship at a time (or orca/bowhead-load at a time).
Morwen Lagann
CEO, Tyrathlion Interstellar
Coordinator, Arataka Research Consortium
Owner, The Golden Masque
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Seraph Essael
Binary Adaption
1211
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Posted - 2016.09.19 17:01:35 -
[15] - Quote
Torvald McBeardson wrote:Seraph Essael wrote:Yep, I'm happy with this. Where my citadel is, is of no concern. What is of concern are the fittings and assets, which you are taking care. I think the removal of assets and fittings is more than enough, in this situation. Actually, they said they're only moving assets from citadels in WH space. People could still blow up a citadel anywhere else and see what drops. Makes me glad I don't keep anything important in citadels, just yet, along with the issue that you can't see personal assets in citadels from the API. Well no, because Citadels in normal space have asset security. In wormholes they do not. Everything is destroyed. Plus I'm a wormholer so I was talking in regards to wormholes in my previous post
EDIT: Damnit didn't read CCP reply. Derp.
Quoted from Doc Fury: "Concerned citizens: Doc seldom plays EVE on the weekends during spring and summer, so you will always be on your own for a couple days a week. Doc spends that time collecting kittens for the on-going sacrifices, engaging in reckless outdoor activities, and speaking in the 3rd person."
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Sentient Blade
Crisis Atmosphere Coalition of the Unfortunate
1709
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Posted - 2016.09.19 17:14:01 -
[16] - Quote
This is probably a fairly terribad idea I'm sure... but would it not be an option to to set the invulnerability windows of any *existing* citadels to zero hours when the mirror is done? Clearly the client prevents it but I assume the native database server has no such constraints.
That way all your pre-existing citadels would be defacto invulnerable, rendering any privacy issues after destroying them inert, and if you need new citadels for play-testing, they're seeded on market, so simply drop them after the mirror. |
Airi Cho
Dark-Rising Wrecking Machine.
160
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Posted - 2016.09.19 19:52:14 -
[17] - Quote
just a quality of life idea: to make restocking citadels easier ... how about all of them have a seeded market? |
Amak Boma
Dragon Factory Peoples United Republic Empire
206
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Posted - 2016.09.19 20:08:20 -
[18] - Quote
for wormhole citadels , we would like to have ability to move us back into said wormhole , perhaps give us ability to move to any wormhole maybe /teleport command that would only teleport us to the wh and only wh space to ditch the wormhole from moveme system . this is good move to clean up citadel stuff. but wy not delete the wormhole citadel instead? |
Alruan Shadowborn
Unleashed' Fury The Initiative.
43
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Posted - 2016.09.19 21:39:48 -
[19] - Quote
Maybe not for this mirror, but something for the future, why not make a copy assets feature that copies the assets for an individual only in their current location and works only once per mirror per character.
Woul make it easier for wormholers in your articulate to test things in their environment |
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CCP Habakuk
C C P C C P Alliance
1609
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Posted - 2016.09.20 17:55:11 -
[20] - Quote
Thank you for your suggestions. While they are out of scope for now, we will keep them in mind for whenever we do further changes to our tools for Singularity.
Short update: The mirror has been applied (Citadel fitting is removed and Citadel assets from W-space is in asset safety) and is currently in VIP mode, while we test a few things and setup beacons and similar. We will probably also apply a code update before we open the server again.
CCP Habakuk | EVE Quality Assurance | Team Five 0 | (Team Gridlock)
Bug reporting | Mass Testing
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Amak Boma
Dragon Factory Peoples United Republic Empire
206
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Posted - 2016.09.20 20:15:15 -
[21] - Quote
got message saying that server was high load . then socket closed. memory broke? |
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CCP Habakuk
C C P C C P Alliance
1610
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Posted - 2016.09.20 21:19:17 -
[22] - Quote
Singularity is now back online on the new mirror and a new version. Skill points for the last 5(+1) mass tests have been re-applied.
Please send bug reports (F12 - Report Bug) for any encountered bugs. Thanks!
Amak Boma: I rebooted the server at this time. Do you still have this problem?
CCP Habakuk | EVE Quality Assurance | Team Five 0 | (Team Gridlock)
Bug reporting | Mass Testing
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Circumstantial Evidence
364
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Posted - 2016.09.20 23:32:39 -
[23] - Quote
While checking out the citadel changes, I found numerous problems.
If my first action after logging in, while docked in a citadel I control, is to check my ship's fitting, or change my active ship - I can do this, see its fitting, undock, redock - no problem.
When I 'Take Control' I see the fitting is stripped, but installing new Standup high-slot modules from item or corp hanger, does not work properly. Module is Red / inactive, cannot bring it online. Only 2 High Slots were displayed.
Fitting screen Fighter Bay shows m3 of fighters still in bay, but when I click on this number in the fitting screen: "Your currently active ship has no fighter bay."
I release control of the citadel.
- Active ship fitting screen shows no modules fitted. (A display bug: I can undock, and ship is properly fitted.)
- Can't switch to a different ship.
Session change (jumping to a different system) does not clear this up. Re-logging does fix the problem. "Take Control" breaks it again. |
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CCP Habakuk
C C P C C P Alliance
1610
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Posted - 2016.09.21 00:04:53 -
[24] - Quote
After going through logs in bug reports and running a short test I am quite sure that the current client has incorrect data (for example missing attributes for ships and modules), and this will very likely also explain the fitting problems for you, Circumstantial Evidence. Thank you for the description!
We will need to deploy a new build in the morning before seeing any sane results.
CCP Habakuk | EVE Quality Assurance | Team Five 0 | (Team Gridlock)
Bug reporting | Mass Testing
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Petrified
Old and Petrified Syndication TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance
424
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Posted - 2016.09.21 05:05:57 -
[25] - Quote
Thank you, this looks like a good solution to the problem.
Thank you again.
Cloaking is the closest thing to a "Pause Game" button one can get while in space.
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Munted Happenstance
0 Percent Tax - Panamanian Shell Company
0
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Posted - 2016.09.21 11:03:27 -
[26] - Quote
CCP Habakuk wrote:Short update: The mirror has been applied (Citadel fitting is removed and Citadel assets from W-space is in asset safety) and is currently in VIP mode, while we test a few things and setup beacons and similar. We will probably also apply a code update before we open the server again.
Thanks a lot for the new mirror, I can finally try my random fits on wormhole combat sites without fear!
Cheers. |
eVRiAL
Annapolis Tactical
15
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Posted - 2016.09.23 08:22:26 -
[27] - Quote
That market seeding is giving me cancer. WHY do you transfer market orders? WHY DON'T you seed market of faction, deadspace and officer mods? Isn't this the TEST server? What's the point? So now I login and see this http://take.ms/2kY9t All meta6+ mods sold out completely, all plex orders fulfilled in all major hubs, is it the point of TEST server? |
Amak Boma
Dragon Factory Peoples United Republic Empire
207
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Posted - 2016.09.23 09:33:46 -
[28] - Quote
because this would break test server legacy, vryone would hop to sisi to play with purple mods
but seeding faction items would be fine since they have less powergrid consumption , less capacitor usage and less cpu usage. seeding those makes sense but not deadspace and not officer |
Amak Boma
Dragon Factory Peoples United Republic Empire
207
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Posted - 2016.09.23 09:37:52 -
[29] - Quote
CCP Habakuk wrote:Singularity is now back online on the new mirror and a new version. Skill points for the last 5(+1) mass tests have been re-applied.
Please send bug reports (F12 - Report Bug) for any encountered bugs. Thanks!
Amak Boma: I rebooted the server at this time. Do you still have this problem?
yes problwemis solved but if you take control of citadel and you use /moveme during control still in place then you cant change speed of your shiip so you cant click speedbar |
Xynthiar
Tactical Narcotics Team
17
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Posted - 2016.09.26 05:12:37 -
[30] - Quote
eVRiAL wrote:That market seeding is giving me cancer. WHY do you transfer market orders? WHY DON'T you seed market of faction, deadspace and officer mods? Isn't this the TEST server? What's the point? So now I login and see this http://take.ms/2kY9t All meta6+ mods sold out completely, all plex orders fulfilled in all major hubs, is it the point of TEST server?
I think you misunderstand the purpose of the test server. It's not there for you to test out new fits. It's there to test (find bugs with) new features. |
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