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DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
56482
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Posted - 2016.09.14 04:03:30 -
[31] - Quote
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:tiberiusric wrote:Well he speaks the truth on reddit ccp talk quite openly but on here they dont say anything .... so why Like most of us, devs are not paid to post on the forums while at work aside from the official comment threads; and outside work they can socialise how they like. That they choose to socialise on eve related things even outside work is a good thing. Not something common in many other industries. The community team are paid for community development and they do that across many sites, but always post official information here and then link it elsewhere. Seems perfectly reasonable. Gonna have to call 100% BS on this.
This is the 'Official Eve Online Forums'. Community relations with the playerbase here should be first and foremost, not a half-assed afterthought effort. Anything that has to do with Eve Online should be posted here first, doesn't matter if it's a planned change to the game or the start of an idea.
Years ago CCP did that here quite often but due to their own toxic bravado being applauded and then encouraged here in the forums, eventually someone at CCP got their feelings hurt and then, 'wam bam no thank you mamm', forum rules were changed and ISD CCL created to rule with an Iron Fist.
Why Reddit? Maybe because it was widely used by Goons & Co members who over the years have now become CCP employees.
DMC
'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
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Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1003
|
Posted - 2016.09.14 04:12:41 -
[32] - Quote
DeMichael Crimson wrote:Shae Tadaruwa wrote:tiberiusric wrote:Well he speaks the truth on reddit ccp talk quite openly but on here they dont say anything .... so why Like most of us, devs are not paid to post on the forums while at work aside from the official comment threads; and outside work they can socialise how they like. That they choose to socialise on eve related things even outside work is a good thing. Not something common in many other industries. The community team are paid for community development and they do that across many sites, but always post official information here and then link it elsewhere. Seems perfectly reasonable. Gonna have to call 100% BS on this. This is the 'Official Eve Online Forums'. Community relations with the playerbase here should be first and foremost, not a half-assed afterthought effort. Anything that has to do with Eve Online should be posted here first, doesn't matter if it's a planned change to the game or the start of an idea. It was posted here first and then linked over at /r/eve
Serene just got it wrong.
As to what devs can do in their own free time, **** you I'm sure. You have no right to demand how they spend their time either when they are at work, or on their own time.
Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
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DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
56482
|
Posted - 2016.09.14 04:12:44 -
[33] - Quote
SmilingVagrant wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:Serene Repose wrote:The ultimate insult. An issue with the new "event" (standings loss) and the "announcement" they're "investigating" appears in REDDIT by FALCON and not HERE.
Don't pee down my back and tell me it's raining. Love you guys. . . most of you.
I'm out of here. If there's one thing I cannot abide it's disloyalty. We PAY MONEY to be in THIS venue...not REDDIT.
Stick it management. Yall are a bunch of spazzes. Of course your own developers want to associate with you as little as possible. Become better people and good people might go out of their way to associate with you. The OP has a point, but it's not very well worded and it comes off as entitled whining. About 3 years ago these forums were in a much healthier state than they currently are, and there are a lot of reasons for that. Personally I'm going to lay the blame at the feet of CCP in engaging the ISD team instead of simply hiring forum moderators and a decent community outreach manager. No matter which way we cut it the best volunteer ISD is always going to have a little bit of skin in the game, and it's shown in some of the most inconsistent moderation known to man. These forums have been on a hard decline since the ISD came into play. Threads that shouldn't be locked are locked regularly, entire subforums have basically been shuttered. It's been all around bad, and it's not getting any better. Sadly I agree 100%.
Over the past few years CCP has basically alienated themselves from the playerbase which only helps promote more declining subscription / log in numbers.
DMC
'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
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SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2711
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Posted - 2016.09.14 04:22:57 -
[34] - Quote
DeMichael Crimson wrote: Why Reddit? Maybe because it was widely used by Goons & Co members who over the years have now become CCP employees.
Actually we gravitated to Kugu which CCP wouldn't touch with a 10 foot pole. The shift to reddit occurred when kugu died. As far as Goon CCP employees your information is a bit out of date. We've had two "Goon" devs, who are both gone now (That would be Soundwave and Sreegs) and one goon GM that I know of (Who got fired because he's an idiot). Claiming any of those guys showed favoritism to goons would be silly. Especially since Sreeg's anti bot/rmt banhammer caught a fair number of shall I say "Super enthusiastic ratters."
Poor elusif, has to make his house payments by actually working now looooooooool.
Right now reddit is semi hostile territory to us goons, mainly because we didn't handle the platform well. Despite "The goons must be in school lol" memes and the like, most something awful forums posters are pushing their mid 30's to 40's now and we're far more used to a forums community where the whole thing is in the most literal sense... a community. The idea that there could be fun history subreddit existing on the same website as some woman hating redpill garbage, and the redpillers aren't summarily banned is kind of alien to us.
Somethingawful is generally one of the most heavily moderated forums on the internet, and we're used to a certain authoritarian bent on our community. I.E. if I just started posting say how all women are evil because they won't sleep with me I'd expect a one way ticket to ban town. Meanwhile there's an entire subreddit devoted to just that kind of nonsense. What we have problems recognizing as old web 1.0 nerds is that reddit is really a collection of communities rather than one super mega large community.
So we tend to treat people from reddit like crap. It's a pardigm problem that we need to get over. |
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
56482
|
Posted - 2016.09.14 04:23:03 -
[35] - Quote
Roenok Baalnorn wrote:I remember when CAOD was bustling with activity. Its locked most of the time and no one post in it anymore. The rest of the forums are pretty dead as well. /r/eve has 600 people browsing it right now, the forums probably have 16. 66k subscribers to /r/eve. Unlikely that 600 subscribers read the forums on the regular basis
Players prefer reddit. They like to talk smack and they like freedom of speech and you cant do that here. CCP posts more there because their are more players there. CCP is also quite active in a few threads here.
I dont care where CCP post as long as i get important info and patch notes via the launcher and we have place we can converse with them on occasion. And that's the major problem. You and others just follow and go along instead of saying hey, let's do this in the 'Official Eve Online Forums'.
Hell, with CCP's track record of deleting and removing stuff, I'll bet these forums will soon be on the same list as the Jukebox, Evelopedia, In-game Browser, ect.
DMC
'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
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DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
56482
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Posted - 2016.09.14 04:36:48 -
[36] - Quote
SmilingVagrant wrote:DeMichael Crimson wrote: Why Reddit? Maybe because it was widely used by Goons & Co members who over the years have now become CCP employees.
Actually we gravitated to Kugu which CCP wouldn't touch with a 10 foot pole. The shift to reddit occurred when kugu died. As far as Goon CCP employees your information is a bit out of date. We've had two "Goon" devs, who are both gone now (That would be Soundwave and Sreegs) and one goon GM that I know of (Who got fired because he's an idiot). Claiming any of those guys showed favoritism to goons would be silly. Especially since Sreeg's anti bot/rmt banhammer caught a fair number of shall I say "Super enthusiastic ratters." Poor elusif, has to make his house payments by actually working now looooooooool. Right now reddit is semi hostile territory to us goons, mainly because we didn't handle the platform well. Despite "The goons must be in school lol" memes and the like, most something awful forums posters are pushing their mid 30's to 40's now and we're far more used to a forums community where the whole thing is in the most literal sense... a community. The idea that there could be fun history subreddit existing on the same website as some woman hating redpill garbage, and the redpillers aren't summarily banned is kind of alien to us. Somethingawful is generally one of the most heavily moderated forums on the internet, and we're used to a certain authoritarian bent on our community. I.E. if I just started posting say how all women are evil because they won't sleep with me I'd expect a one way ticket to ban town. Meanwhile there's an entire subreddit devoted to just that kind of nonsense. What we have problems recognizing as old web 1.0 nerds is that reddit is really a collection of communities rather than one super mega large community. So we tend to treat people from reddit like crap. It's a pardigm problem that we need to get over. I never made any accusation of CCP showing favoritism and yeah, I was referring to Soundwave & Co. Sure, Soundwave may be gone but the Co mentality is still there. Doesn't surprise me to know you guys use another forum now.
Anyway, in my opinion any employee of CCP who want's to post about Eve on a different forum should do so using their own name, not a CCP name. When they use their CCP name it looks 'Official' and when doing so they are literally a representative of the company.
DMC
'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
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Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1003
|
Posted - 2016.09.14 04:46:37 -
[37] - Quote
DeMichael Crimson wrote:Anyway, in my opinion any employee of CCP who want's to post about Eve on a different forum should do so using their own name, not a CCP name. When they use their CCP name it looks 'Official' and when doing so they are literally a representative of the company. Put yourself in Hilmar's (or other executive responsible for community engagement) shoes.
Would you rather the community knew your employees were engaging with them on Eve issues, or just looked like everyone else, even when engaging with the community outside work?
The attitude that they should just post on their own name is an entitled customer view.
Many of the devs do post on other names outside the eve sub reddit. In the Python sub reddit for example there are a couple of current and former devs that post on other accounts.
Quote:The idea that there could be fun history subreddit existing on the same website as some woman hating redpill garbage, and the redpillers aren't summarily banned is kind of alien to us. Yeah, Reddit is more a platform for communities, not a community in and of itself.
I shake my head in disbelief sometimes at the subreddits that I find, but I'm no more a part of those communities than they are of the Eve community. As someone who comes from a society that values the rights of individuals and free speech, I can freely disagree with some of the subreddits, but if they aren't doing anything illegal then good luck to them. I can't imagine ever being friends with people in some of the communities there and totally disagree with their ideas, but that's not reddit's fault. They provide a largely non-judgemental approach to providing a platform and it gets used as such.
Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
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DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
56482
|
Posted - 2016.09.14 07:22:30 -
[38] - Quote
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:DeMichael Crimson wrote:Anyway, in my opinion any employee of CCP who want's to post about Eve on a different forum should do so using their own name, not a CCP name. When they use their CCP name it looks 'Official' and when doing so they are literally a representative of the company. Put yourself in Hilmar's (or other executive responsible for community engagement) shoes. Would you rather the community knew your employees were engaging with them on Eve issues, or just looked like everyone else, even when engaging with the community outside work? The attitude that they should just post on their own name is an entitled customer view. Many of the devs do post on other names outside the eve sub reddit. In the Python sub reddit for example there are a couple of current and former devs that post on other accounts. Having them post on other public forums using their own names is not an entitled customer viewpoint, it's good business practice. Since it's not an 'Official' company forum, in the eyes of the general public whatever they post when using their CCP names basically looks like 'Official' info.
DMC
'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
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Milla Goodpussy
Federal Navy Academy
440
|
Posted - 2016.09.14 08:19:54 -
[39] - Quote
i think its terrible customer interaction and basically is a no no.. you break the integrity of the product by only communicating on back alley channels such as reddit, and it shows more likely a leak will come out here and there.. the blame is fully on ccp for allowing it.
sorry if you want to speak to your playerbase you need to do it here and no where else. this is really on ccp seagull cause she hasn't stepped in and stopped it at all.. so to the OP.. i agree with you
and shame on you ccp for allowing ever more shade against its paying playerbase..
but fear not.. cause the truth will occur, it will go out and blogs will be written that will continue to sway paying customers away from your product..
they never learn till its too late. |
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
15830
|
Posted - 2016.09.14 08:37:55 -
[40] - Quote
Now I think CCP would be better leaving that as it was and tell us "Deal with it".
Embracing the unexpected feature that would completely shift all expectations for future.
They could respond with Lore explanation for Purists holding power over Standing system for Amarr empire, developed a virus that is overriding every attempt to get rid of it and making look every Purist vessel as usual Amarr vessel. A masquerade.
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
Where is Angry CONCORD guy when you need him.
GëíGïüGëí GÖÑ
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Arcelian
Metentis
190
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Posted - 2016.09.14 15:37:47 -
[41] - Quote
I was gone for a few years, and now these forums, are indeed a ghost town. It's the same 20 or so people in every thread.
So, why would CCP post here? So the whole two dozen folks that read these forums are in the know? |
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite CODE.
2815
|
Posted - 2016.09.14 17:19:49 -
[42] - Quote
Serene Repose wrote:I'm out of here. I was never a fan of Reddit until now. I just made an account.
the Code ALWAYS wins
Elite PvPer, #74 in 2014
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oiukhp Muvila
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
82
|
Posted - 2016.09.14 18:25:37 -
[43] - Quote
Many can't stand and will never use REDDIT, even if that is mainly where CCP employees post.
CCP is doing its self a dis-service by posting official information there.
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SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2712
|
Posted - 2016.09.14 22:32:41 -
[44] - Quote
oiukhp Muvila wrote:Many can't stand and will never use REDDIT, even if that is mainly where CCP employees post.
CCP is doing its self a dis-service by posting official information there.
I'm not a huge fan of the format of reddit but again I'm old as hell.
All these millennials and there new fangled celly phones, when I was a teen you had to carry quarters in your pocket to make phone calls, unless you were rich, then you got the zack morris special brick phone.
EDIT: LOL if you don't remember getting a 911 text on your pager and rushing to find a pay phone. |
Taishoku Mayaki
State War Academy Caldari State
2160
|
Posted - 2016.09.15 10:36:09 -
[45] - Quote
Bazooka Ubunghowl wrote:im poor Really really poor cant make any isk on the street corner.. Can i pleez have yer stuff :-)
I'd comment in relation to the original topic but that has already been served up and salted.
But dear god Bazooka Unbunghowl you're a hideous thing, I want to add you to my circus! |
Dor Cadmon
New Artisian and Mercenary Association
8
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Posted - 2016.09.15 10:55:54 -
[46] - Quote
Arcelian wrote:I was gone for a few years, and now these forums, are indeed a ghost town. It's the same 20 or so people in every thread. So, why would CCP post here? So the whole two dozen folks that read these forums are in the know?
forums are a ghost town because any thread that has dissent in it gets insta locked faster than a svipul in Jita.
you might as well give up on the forums alltogether because its no longer an effective medium to voice concerns. Seems the devs might know this too.
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Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
1215
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Posted - 2016.09.15 18:07:35 -
[47] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Serene Repose wrote:The ultimate insult. An issue with the new "event" (standings loss) and the "announcement" they're "investigating" appears in REDDIT by FALCON and not HERE.
Don't pee down my back and tell me it's raining. Love you guys. . . most of you.
I'm out of here. If there's one thing I cannot abide it's disloyalty. We PAY MONEY to be in THIS venue...not REDDIT.
Stick it management. Can I have your corpse?
Are you sure?
Remove insurance.
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Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore
14695
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Posted - 2016.09.15 18:35:00 -
[48] - Quote
Serene Repose wrote: You don't understand the corporate mentality, apparently. In the properly run oligarchy, the pesky people are held at a safe distance. That's why at the demonstrations for not arresting the ones who trashed the economy, the cops were facing US, not THEM. I don't expect them to change. I don't expect them to listen. And, my tirade may have been tasteless, but I guaran-goddam-tee you it is sincere.
Lackeys, line up in the rear for your free sandwiches.
On behalf of LE everywhere, We were facing you types because it was y'all throwing stuff and threatening people. When the suits start doing that too I'm sure we'll face both of you types...
And Shae is spot on, they don't have to cater to you who complain here, they have you and your money already, and your own actions say that you aren't going anywhere, so you are safe to ignore. Kind of like those real life protestors you are talking about, who protest corporations while continuing to buy those corporations products, signaling to those corporations that you don't really mean what you are saying... |
Pandora Carrollon
Dawn of a New Horizon The Republic.
662
|
Posted - 2016.09.15 19:38:42 -
[49] - Quote
One of the more hilariously true images I've ever seen captioned up.
I've made no bones about my dislike of Reddit. I think the social media aspect of it's up/down vote system is more of a curse than a blessing in areas where the pond scum of humanity tend to hang out. However, in some areas of Reddit, it is actually more useful than not.
None of that addresses why these forums are here and what their purpose it. It also doesn't address why moderation is needed in official corporate forums and why companies should post in their official forums.
I am both a Reddit reader and a Forum reader/poster. I will always post here over Reddit because here my opinion is held equal by the forum to everyone else's. On Reddit, it's subject to the whims of the mob that happens to be logged in at the moment.
I don't care what you read, but those of you trying to eliminate the forums just because you like Reddit better are a pretty sad bunch because you're essentially saying that you lack the capacity to read more than one information source.
I find that very odd in an EVE player who has to get Intel from at least a dozens sources or risk being turned into space particles just going from point A to point B.
8 Golden Rules of EVE GÇó EVE is entirely PvP
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Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore
14695
|
Posted - 2016.09.15 19:46:20 -
[50] - Quote
Pandora Carrollon wrote:One of the more hilariously true images I've ever seen captioned up. I've made no bones about my dislike of Reddit. I think the social media aspect of it's up/down vote system is more of a curse than a blessing in areas where the pond scum of humanity tend to hang out. However, in some areas of Reddit, it is actually more useful than not. None of that addresses why these forums are here and what their purpose it. It also doesn't address why moderation is needed in official corporate forums and why companies should post in their official forums. I am both a Reddit reader and a Forum reader/poster. I will always post here over Reddit because here my opinion is held equal by the forum to everyone else's. On Reddit, it's subject to the whims of the mob that happens to be logged in at the moment. I don't care what you read, but those of you trying to eliminate the forums just because you like Reddit better are a pretty sad bunch because you're essentially saying that you lack the capacity to read more than one information source. I find that very odd in an EVE player who has to get Intel from at least a dozens sources or risk being turned into space particles just going from point A to point B.
Wait, who is trying to get rid of these forums? |
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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
26838
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Posted - 2016.09.15 19:50:51 -
[51] - Quote
Mara Pahrdi wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Serene Repose wrote:The ultimate insult. An issue with the new "event" (standings loss) and the "announcement" they're "investigating" appears in REDDIT by FALCON and not HERE.
Don't pee down my back and tell me it's raining. Love you guys. . . most of you.
I'm out of here. If there's one thing I cannot abide it's disloyalty. We PAY MONEY to be in THIS venue...not REDDIT.
Stick it management. Can I have your corpse? Are you sure? I sell corpses via contracts, stock is stock at the end of the day
Civilised behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business.
New Player FAQ
Feyd's Survival Pack
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Ian Morbius
Potomac Greeting Card Company
311
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Posted - 2016.09.16 00:01:37 -
[52] - Quote
Where's the Reddit thread on CCP Games opening a new studio in London? |
Elenahina
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
1194
|
Posted - 2016.09.16 18:42:15 -
[53] - Quote
Serene Repose wrote: I'm out of here.
We couldn't get that lucky.
Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you.
Also, iderno
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Ethan Zoromir
Delta Laroth Industries Voxis Accord
6
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Posted - 2016.09.16 22:33:23 -
[54] - Quote
I believe it was on the launcher before it was on Reddit.
Voxis Accord | Mixed sov null alliance with a strong focus on building a great community | Proud members of Querious Fight Club
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Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
45085
|
Posted - 2016.09.16 23:12:58 -
[55] - Quote
Dor Cadmon wrote:Arcelian wrote:I was gone for a few years, and now these forums, are indeed a ghost town. It's the same 20 or so people in every thread. So, why would CCP post here? So the whole two dozen folks that read these forums are in the know? forums are a ghost town because any thread that has dissent in it gets insta locked faster than a svipul in Jita. you might as well give up on the forums alltogether because its no longer an effective medium to voice concerns. Seems the devs might know this too. It's not really like that now, but it's going to take a while before that reputation disappears, assuming the current approach to moderation continues.
There's much more willingness to let discussion happen than there was a couple of years ago.
I have tonnes of respect for Ezwal, though I really appreciate the change in moderation by the ISDs since Bastorlode took the reins.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
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Falin Whalen
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
901
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Posted - 2016.09.16 23:24:05 -
[56] - Quote
OP c...can...can I have your stuff?
"it's only because of their stupidity that they're able to be so sure of themselves."
The Trial - Franz Kafka-á
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Khergit Deserters
Crom's Angels
4665
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Posted - 2016.09.17 00:26:46 -
[57] - Quote
CCP built it, they should come. They even went to the all of the trouble of creating an ISD corps to keep a handle on things. If nothing else, out of respect for ISD people (paid? unpaid? free subscriptions?), announcements ought to be on CCP's own site first, I think. We all know how trendy internet spots go-- they become the next FB, infected with too much trendiness and no hipsters want to be associated with them anymore. Or they become successful enough that they start acting corporate-like and stuffing ads other stuff down people's throats. Maybe buy stock in Reddit before it hits either phase, and retire or go belly up.
Keep hanging tight CCP, you've weathered through years of drama and absolute crap. Don't go to them, they can come to you.
Start the bubble machine!
-Lawrence Welk
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Elite Harvester
Elite Harvesters
82
|
Posted - 2016.09.17 02:24:36 -
[58] - Quote
Reddit. Read it. Redd it.
Oh my God. I just realized that. Hahaha!!!
Visit www.MinerBumping.com to find out how you can help save Highsec.
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Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
45086
|
Posted - 2016.09.17 03:03:35 -
[59] - Quote
Khergit Deserters wrote:announcements ought to be on CCP's own site first, I think. When aren't they?
In terms of official information from CCP, I can't think of a single occasion where it hasn't been posted on CCP's platform first and then just linked elsewhere.
There may be some examples, but all of the recent ones (including the situation that triggered this thread), the information was published here first.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
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oiukhp Muvila
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
88
|
Posted - 2016.09.17 08:36:18 -
[60] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Khergit Deserters wrote:announcements ought to be on CCP's own site first, I think. When aren't they? In terms of official information from CCP, I can't think of a single occasion where it hasn't been posted on CCP's platform first and then just linked elsewhere. There may be some examples, but all of the recent ones (including the situation that triggered this thread), the information was published here first.
There are conversations taking place exclusively on a third party site that should be taking place on official Eve Online forums as they had in the past.
This has lead to a portion of the player base being favored over those who choose not to use that site.
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