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Jin'taan
Pentag Blade Curatores Veritatis Alliance
74
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Posted - 2016.09.09 17:42:30 -
[181] - Quote
Whilst I am somewhat late to this discussion, I will point out that, as haughty, arrogant, or otherwise distateful many members may find the request of the Villore Assembly, the ultimate decision simply lays with the Empire and her Diplomatic Corps. Should they feel the works of the VA would award them such recognition, I would hope no loyal subject of the Empire would broke argument, and surely would not stoop to the level of attacking guests of the Empire. Equally, if they are refused, I imagine the VA would understand, given that they are a capsuleer organisation, and - should what they say ring true - as a diplomatic group, graciously accept their status as normal guests of the ceremony. Simply put, I struggle to see why the hell you all give a damn. |
Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2072
|
Posted - 2016.09.09 17:50:53 -
[182] - Quote
I find your unwillingness to place the final decision in God's hands to be upsetting and offensive to my misunderstanding of the Amarr culture. Therefore I must request that you commit ritual suicide until such time as I decide my position can't be defended, so I was clearly talking to someone else, and why are you looking at me like that? |
William Danneskjold
66
|
Posted - 2016.09.09 17:55:15 -
[183] - Quote
Arrendis wrote:I find your unwillingness to place the final decision in God's hands to be upsetting and offensive to my misunderstanding of the Amarr culture. Therefore I must request that you commit ritual suicide until such time as I decide my position can't be defended, so I was clearly talking to someone else, and why are you looking at me like that?
Because I find your brand of posting to be strangely attractive and revolting at the same time.
I forgot to respond earlier.
I find there to be two brands of honest. You go to a piano recital. The pianist is not good. You have a man in the crowd, who screams "YOU SUCK" to the pianist. The pianist is told he sucks, and has no way to improve it.
You have another man who says after, "Sir, your piano playing is not good. Here is what's wrong with it, and how to improve."
Many in this thread have offered the latter, however, there was a spread of the former. The latter is honest, open, and constructive. The former is closing, destructive, and helps nobody except the poster's ego.
War is murder. It always has been, always will be. Murder in the name of God. Freedom. Your country. Whatever it is, it is murder. I am already against the next set of wars.
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Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2074
|
Posted - 2016.09.09 18:00:11 -
[184] - Quote
William Danneskjold wrote:Because I find your brand of posting to be strangely attractive and revolting at the same time.
Arrendis wrote:Well, you know, Goons tend to grow on you...
... like a fungus.
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Alizabeth Vea
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
860
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Posted - 2016.09.09 18:03:17 -
[185] - Quote
Arrendis wrote:I find your unwillingness to place the final decision in God's hands to be upsetting and offensive to my misunderstanding of the Amarr culture. Therefore I must request that you commit ritual suicide until such time as I decide my position can't be defended, so I was clearly talking to someone else, and why are you looking at me like that? Marry me.
Retainer of Lady Newelle and House Sarum.
"Those who step into the light shall be redeemed, the sins of their past cleansed, so that they may know salvation." -Empress Jamyl Sarum I
SFRIM Evocatus and ARC FC
Virtue. Valor. Victory.
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William Danneskjold
67
|
Posted - 2016.09.09 18:03:22 -
[186] - Quote
Arrendis wrote:William Danneskjold wrote:Because I find your brand of posting to be strangely attractive and revolting at the same time.
Arrendis wrote:Well, you know, Goons tend to grow on you...
... like a fungus.
That's why my thinking's getting fuzzy.
War is murder. It always has been, always will be. Murder in the name of God. Freedom. Your country. Whatever it is, it is murder. I am already against the next set of wars.
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Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2078
|
Posted - 2016.09.09 18:43:45 -
[187] - Quote
Alizabeth Vea wrote:Marry me.
Sorry, I'm holding myself for an appropriately abusive relationship that'll involve serial autoerotic asphyxiation in the pod. |
Claudia Osyn
Non-Hostile Target
2068
|
Posted - 2016.09.09 19:30:23 -
[188] - Quote
Arrendis wrote:Alizabeth Vea wrote:Marry me. Sorry, I'm holding myself for an appropriately abusive relationship that'll involve serial autoerotic asphyxiation in the pod. *Holds up a length of piano wire* Sounds like a party.
A little trust goes a long way. The less you use, the further you'll go.
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Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2082
|
Posted - 2016.09.09 20:07:35 -
[189] - Quote
What part of auto-erotic asphyxiation says I need your piano wire? |
Claudia Osyn
Non-Hostile Target
2069
|
Posted - 2016.09.09 20:11:18 -
[190] - Quote
Arrendis wrote:What part of auto-erotic asphyxiation says I need your piano wire? What part of abusive says you get a choice? :)
A little trust goes a long way. The less you use, the further you'll go.
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Slayer Liberator
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
110
|
Posted - 2016.09.10 00:53:22 -
[191] - Quote
Arrendis wrote:Alizabeth Vea wrote:Marry me. Sorry, I'm holding myself for an appropriately abusive relationship that'll involve serial autoerotic asphyxiation in the pod. And I thought MY fetishes were ****** up |
Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
2818
|
Posted - 2016.09.11 01:49:56 -
[192] - Quote
Jin'taan wrote:Whilst I am somewhat late to this discussion, I will point out that, as haughty, arrogant, or otherwise distateful many members may find the request of the Villore Assembly, the ultimate decision simply lays with the Empire and her Diplomatic Corps. Should they feel the works of the VA would award them such recognition, I would hope no loyal subject of the Empire would broke argument, and surely would not stoop to the level of attacking guests of the Empire. Equally, if they are refused, I imagine the VA would understand, given that they are a capsuleer organisation, and - should what they say ring true - as a diplomatic group, graciously accept their status as normal guests of the ceremony. Simply put, I struggle to see why the hell you all give a damn. I think it is just them yelling "We gallente, look at us and do as we told".
And I prefer to look at them through reticles of my ship turrets.
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
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Claudia Osyn
Non-Hostile Target
2074
|
Posted - 2016.09.12 13:38:08 -
[193] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote:
And I prefer to look at them through reticles of my ship turrets.
This seems to imply that you manually aim your ships turrets. That's talent...
A little trust goes a long way. The less you use, the further you'll go.
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Morwen Lagann
Tyrathlion Interstellar
1866
|
Posted - 2016.09.12 17:27:01 -
[194] - Quote
I wasn't really planning on getting involved in this thread, but since I've gotten everything off of my plate for the morning and have a bit of time, I might as well weigh in.
First, Jin'taan has the right of it. The amount of energy wasted by people throwing a fit over the resolution, none of whom have any say over its acceptance or acknowledgement by actually relevant parties - regardless of whether those parties are from the Federation or the Empire - was utterly ridiculous, and people really ought to be ashamed of themselves.
Second, I feel it worth noting that while Hive operations typically see, engage, and destroy an average of perhaps eight to ten Drifter vessels per trip, for Dogma and Fight Club's operations during the Throne Worlds campaign, it was normal to see several hundred of those vessels destroyed in a single fleet operation, at a rate of thirteen or fourteen per individual engagement and with zero losses save the occasional Hyena, or more frequently, drone.
Morwen Lagann
CEO, Tyrathlion Interstellar
Coordinator, Arataka Research Consortium
Owner, The Golden Masque
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Teinyhr
Ourumur
665
|
Posted - 2016.09.13 16:43:40 -
[195] - Quote
So what exactly compelled you to contribute nothing to this discussion days after it was considered relevant and waste so much of this precious energy you care so much about? You really ought to be ashamed of yourself. |
Morwen Lagann
Tyrathlion Interstellar
1868
|
Posted - 2016.09.13 17:02:39 -
[196] - Quote
Besides the fact that it annoyed you enough to make an unnecessarily hostile post?
Correcting someone on an inaccurate statement about a subject I am far more intimately familiar with than they are, and publicly stating my agreement with and support of Jin'taan's view of the matter, as an Observer in the Assembly who participated in the process for the resolution in the first place.
Morwen Lagann
CEO, Tyrathlion Interstellar
Coordinator, Arataka Research Consortium
Owner, The Golden Masque
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Teinyhr
Ourumur
665
|
Posted - 2016.09.13 18:19:42 -
[197] - Quote
People keep me calling me hostile when I respond to them with the same condescending tone they use to address people who do not agree with them. Most curious. Well, its not really that curious, but you get the idea.
Fine, want to hear some words with actual hostile intent behind them? From where I'm standing the whole topic has been nothing but a sad circlejerk where Villore Assembly and their sympathisers pat eachothers on the back for making a completely pointless resolution - which, many of them and you yourself have now acknowledged, that they have no actual power on the matter at all themselves. Then when someone dared to point this out, there come the complaints that "you are being too pedantic, what are just a few words, we meant good," blah blah.
If these people had just owned up to the fact that they made a mistake, that would have been the end of it. Instead, when Pilot Onzo raised a legitimate concern over the wording of the resolution, signees and affiliates of the Assembly just decided to brush it away as being too pedantic and by the book. When I offered my support to his views I was likewise being scolded off for daring to say anything. At this point, we both had remained completely civil.
However right after this, then, Assembly spokesperson and their affiliates, start getting really angry about being questioned, using condescending remarks "laughable", "you forget your places", "well what did you ever do for galactic peace" etc. Its all right there, go back and read it. This was about the point where I lost my patience and appreciation for pleasantries as they were likewise not wasted towards me or any of the other people who felt that this resolution had stepped out of its place as well. Then a certain someone decided to start reading something on the resolution that wasn't even there, and complains how can I not see it, and again, flat out keeps insulting me.
Then one certain uppity Vherokior pilot tries to shame me out of the discussion by appealing to intertribal politics and customs, forgetting that since I am a capsuleer, they affect me as much as I allow them to affect me. By the way, my clan has not disowned me yet, altough I frankly doubt they or other baseliners actually care about capsuleer quarrels enough to do so. Last I heard their businesses continues as usual. This is about the point where I shedded any last remnants of trying to appear polite, as evident in my response to him.
Then there is you, last in a long line who comes to complain about people complaining. You could have just left your note about drifter operations and leave, but no, you just had to one last dig when things had already settled down and nobody really gave a damn anymore.
Sorry not sorry. |
Morwen Lagann
Tyrathlion Interstellar
1869
|
Posted - 2016.09.13 19:02:44 -
[198] - Quote
And yet... none of that requires you to be snippy or snarky with me.
Morwen Lagann
CEO, Tyrathlion Interstellar
Coordinator, Arataka Research Consortium
Owner, The Golden Masque
|
Teinyhr
Ourumur
665
|
Posted - 2016.09.13 19:14:52 -
[199] - Quote
Morwen Lagann wrote:And yet... none of that requires you to be snippy or snarky with me.
I suppose you are right, you had not offended me personally, and I apologize thusly for my harsh reaction. Surely you understand though, that echoing the same drivel with the same condescending and dismissive tone most other participants in this discussion had done previously, you did not exactly come forth in perfect form yourself. |
Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security
6349
|
Posted - 2016.09.13 21:46:33 -
[200] - Quote
Like anyone, I feel no particular shame or compunction when a bunch of warhawks who do everything they can to profit from war start talking big about their record on peaceful initiatives.
That's why I'm not surprised when people poke fun at me for doing it. People like Villore Accords and myself absolutely have things of value to bring to the peace table, but let's not start strutting about and pretending that we're anything but poorly leashed hounds.
For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead
in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a
hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
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James Syagrius
Reclamation Technologies
1416
|
Posted - 2016.09.13 23:42:26 -
[201] - Quote
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:Like anyone, I feel no particular shame or compunction when a bunch of warhawks who do everything they can to profit from war start talking big about their record on peaceful initiatives.
That's why I'm not surprised when people poke fun at me for doing it. People like Villore Accords and myself absolutely have things of value to bring to the peace table, but let's not start strutting about and pretending that we're anything but poorly leashed hounds. You know, occasionally I actually like you, Pieter.
GÇ£Here also are the heralds of his praise."
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Elmund Egivand
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
1506
|
Posted - 2016.09.14 01:41:04 -
[202] - Quote
Claudia Osyn wrote:Diana Kim wrote:
And I prefer to look at them through reticles of my ship turrets.
This seems to imply that you manually aim your ships turrets. That's talent...
Only a really special person can manually aim at a speck of light moving at the velocity of 1.2km/s 15-20km away and still be able to hit it with anything resembling accuracy.
Such a person does not exist.
Fire control directors, dammit!
A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
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Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
2833
|
Posted - 2016.09.15 13:55:07 -
[203] - Quote
Elmund Egivand wrote: Only a really special person can manually aim at a speck of light moving at the velocity of 1.2km/s 15-20km away and still be able to hit it with anything resembling accuracy.
Such a person does not exist.
Fire control directors, dammit!
Primitive tribal savages. They can't realize that to watch through gun targetting reticle all you need to do is to place camera along the gun barrel and connect it to ship interface, that is eventually accessible through capsule interface. And that's why you don't hire minmatar engineers. And probably that's the reason minmatar ships have largest crews among ships of other nations. Minmatar engineers are so damn unimaginative!
And instead of finding technological solution they discuss possibility of manual labor...
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
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Deitra Vess
Non-Hostile Target
1341
|
Posted - 2016.09.15 14:15:58 -
[204] - Quote
Don't you usually use missiles? Seems like it anyways. |
Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
2833
|
Posted - 2016.09.15 14:34:45 -
[205] - Quote
Railguns too. You can't find more precise weapons in our cluster than railguns.
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
|
Deitra Vess
Non-Hostile Target
1341
|
Posted - 2016.09.15 14:44:30 -
[206] - Quote
Can't argue that... |
Elmund Egivand
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
1519
|
Posted - 2016.09.15 14:58:28 -
[207] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote:Elmund Egivand wrote: Only a really special person can manually aim at a speck of light moving at the velocity of 1.2km/s 15-20km away and still be able to hit it with anything resembling accuracy.
Such a person does not exist.
Fire control directors, dammit!
Primitive tribal savages. They can't realize that to watch through gun targetting reticle all you need to do is to place camera along the gun barrel and connect it to ship interface, that is eventually accessible through capsule interface. And that's why you don't hire minmatar engineers. And probably that's the reason minmatar ships have largest crews among ships of other nations. Minmatar engineers are so damn unimaginative! And instead of finding technological solution they discuss possibility of manual labor...
Except that doesn't work at all.
Seriously, have you never studied ballistics physics? At all? The human eye is amazingly bad at tracking fast moving objects at kilometers range. Especially objects that will appear to be specks of light that happen to move very fast. That's why dogfights had always taken place within distances measured in meters. Kilometers and you start finding yourself having trouble hitting a damn thing accurately.
Gunnery station crewmen are expected to know ballistics physics to understand how projectiles, whether gyrojet shells, railguns, plasma blasts, missiles or particle beams/lasers interact with moving targets at a specific velocity flying at a specific angle at a specific distance, with added consideration of the effects of gravity affecting the trajectory of the projectile or the beam. If on the surface and dealing with firing projectiles (not beams) at ranges measured in kilometers, we even have to take into account of wind direction and the planet's curvature in the calculation. Intuition is terrible at managing that.
Even then they do not actually do the calculations manually. They run the calculation through the ballistic control system or the targeting computers using the variables provided by the tactical suite. Modern systems do away with crew entirely, the sensors and tactical suite operate together with the capsuleer's cerebellum (not cerebrum. That is how we are able to instinctively come up with calculations, albeit not entirely accurate, in cycle intervals without being entirely aware of having done the calculation. The program was written into our subconscious) and individual targeting computers/ballistic control systems of every individual turret or launcher to calculate firing solutions just in time for the next firing cycle of the weapons. The more auxiliary computers added into the link-up the more accurate the calculations become.
The computers, by the way, are what we call 'Fire Control Directors'. It's not a person, it's a computer that calculates exactly where to aim, after taking into account of all these factors.
Besides, you didn't realise that you have MULTIPLE TURRETS with multiple angles to consider. Are you expecting to track the target through multiple views at multiple angles?
((https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire-control_system aka you do not eyeball your targets when you have giant turrets with a fixed turn speed and the targets are moving kilometers away. Use a goddamn calculator and know your calculations))
A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
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Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
2833
|
Posted - 2016.09.15 15:06:25 -
[208] - Quote
Elmund Egivand wrote:Diana Kim wrote:Elmund Egivand wrote: Only a really special person can manually aim at a speck of light moving at the velocity of 1.2km/s 15-20km away and still be able to hit it with anything resembling accuracy.
Such a person does not exist.
Fire control directors, dammit!
Primitive tribal savages. They can't realize that to watch through gun targetting reticle all you need to do is to place camera along the gun barrel and connect it to ship interface, that is eventually accessible through capsule interface. And that's why you don't hire minmatar engineers. And probably that's the reason minmatar ships have largest crews among ships of other nations. Minmatar engineers are so damn unimaginative! And instead of finding technological solution they discuss possibility of manual labor... Except that doesn't work at all. Seriously, have you never studied ballistics physics? At all? The human eye is amazingly bad at tracking fast moving objects at kilometers range. Especially objects that will appear to be specks of light that happen to move very fast. That's why dogfights had always taken place within distances measured in meters. Kilometers and you start finding yourself having trouble hitting a damn thing accurately. Gunnery station crewmen are expected to know ballistics physics to understand how projectiles, whether gyrojet shells, railguns, plasma blasts, missiles or particle beams/lasers interact with moving targets at a specific velocity flying at a specific angle at a specific distance, with added consideration of the effects of gravity affecting the trajectory of the projectile or the beam. If on the surface and dealing with firing projectiles (not beams) at ranges measured in kilometers, we even have to take into account of wind direction and the planet's curvature in the calculation. Intuition is terrible at managing that. Even then they do not actually do the calculations manually. They run the calculation through the ballistic control system or the targeting computers using the variables provided by the tactical suite. Modern systems do away with crew entirely, the sensors and tactical suite operate together with the capsuleer's cerebellum (not cerebrum. That is how we are able to instinctively come up with calculations, albeit not entirely accurate, in cycle intervals without being entirely aware of having done the calculation. The program was written into our subconscious) and individual targeting computers/ballistic control systems of every individual turret or launcher to calculate firing solutions just in time for the next firing cycle of the weapons. The more auxiliary computers added into the link-up the more accurate the calculations become. That system, by the way, is what we call a 'Fire Control Director'. It's not a person, it's a system to generate accurate calculations to determine exactly where to aim after taking into account of all these factors. Besides, you didn't realise that you have MULTIPLE TURRETS with multiple angles to consider. Are you expecting to track the target through multiple views at multiple angles? ((https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire-control_system aka you do not eyeball your targets when you have giant turrets with a fixed turn speed and the targets are moving kilometers away. Use a goddamn calculator and know your calculations)) You are annoying.
If minmatar engineers can't understand a simple concept of a camera attached to the barrel so the pilot and crew (should they want to) could see where it is pointed without affecting the tracking and gun control, I don't think that further explanation would change anything.
That's just pathetic.
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
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Elmund Egivand
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
1519
|
Posted - 2016.09.15 15:08:05 -
[209] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote:Elmund Egivand wrote:Diana Kim wrote:Elmund Egivand wrote: Only a really special person can manually aim at a speck of light moving at the velocity of 1.2km/s 15-20km away and still be able to hit it with anything resembling accuracy.
Such a person does not exist.
Fire control directors, dammit!
Primitive tribal savages. They can't realize that to watch through gun targetting reticle all you need to do is to place camera along the gun barrel and connect it to ship interface, that is eventually accessible through capsule interface. And that's why you don't hire minmatar engineers. And probably that's the reason minmatar ships have largest crews among ships of other nations. Minmatar engineers are so damn unimaginative! And instead of finding technological solution they discuss possibility of manual labor... Except that doesn't work at all. Seriously, have you never studied ballistics physics? At all? The human eye is amazingly bad at tracking fast moving objects at kilometers range. Especially objects that will appear to be specks of light that happen to move very fast. That's why dogfights had always taken place within distances measured in meters. Kilometers and you start finding yourself having trouble hitting a damn thing accurately. Gunnery station crewmen are expected to know ballistics physics to understand how projectiles, whether gyrojet shells, railguns, plasma blasts, missiles or particle beams/lasers interact with moving targets at a specific velocity flying at a specific angle at a specific distance, with added consideration of the effects of gravity affecting the trajectory of the projectile or the beam. If on the surface and dealing with firing projectiles (not beams) at ranges measured in kilometers, we even have to take into account of wind direction and the planet's curvature in the calculation. Intuition is terrible at managing that. Even then they do not actually do the calculations manually. They run the calculation through the ballistic control system or the targeting computers using the variables provided by the tactical suite. Modern systems do away with crew entirely, the sensors and tactical suite operate together with the capsuleer's cerebellum (not cerebrum. That is how we are able to instinctively come up with calculations, albeit not entirely accurate, in cycle intervals without being entirely aware of having done the calculation. The program was written into our subconscious) and individual targeting computers/ballistic control systems of every individual turret or launcher to calculate firing solutions just in time for the next firing cycle of the weapons. The more auxiliary computers added into the link-up the more accurate the calculations become. That system, by the way, is what we call a 'Fire Control Director'. It's not a person, it's a system to generate accurate calculations to determine exactly where to aim after taking into account of all these factors. Besides, you didn't realise that you have MULTIPLE TURRETS with multiple angles to consider. Are you expecting to track the target through multiple views at multiple angles? ((https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire-control_system aka you do not eyeball your targets when you have giant turrets with a fixed turn speed and the targets are moving kilometers away. Use a goddamn calculator and know your calculations)) You are annoying. If minmatar engineers can't understand a simple concept of a camera attached to the barrel so the pilot and crew (should they want to) could see where it is pointed without affecting the tracking and gun control, I don't think that further explanation would change anything. That's just pathetic.
A Minmatar engineer knows ballistic physics and how to design a fire control system using five year old computers that some wasteful idiot is tossing into a junk heap that is able to get them a firing solution for a weapon type infamous for jumping ever so slightly due to recoil every second and still achieve a reasonable level of accuracy. I doubt you actually manually aim anything and just want to feel good about yourself.
A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
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Tristan Valentina
Moira. Villore Accords
55
|
Posted - 2016.09.15 15:47:59 -
[210] - Quote
My name is Diana Kim, and I am the deadliest person in space. My railguns never hit the target but they always hit something.
Diana Kim the thing about you that makes me sad is that you make me side with Elmund Egivand every now and then.
For a Soldier of the State, I am surprised by your lack on knowledge on how long distance shooting works. Maybe that is why you are in a capsule.
Elmund Egivand that is an amazing post on how gunnery works.
It is amazing how off the topic of the original post we have gotten in this thread.
Tristan Valentina |
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