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gggggggreat
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Posted - 2007.03.14 17:06:00 -
[1]
Ok so you guys introduce a new conrtact system thats excesivly complicated compared to its predecessor escrow. Your justification is that too many peeps were scamming on escrow. If thats the case why did you allow the option of a private auction? And if you want it to be there that badly shouldnt you rename it to use this option "use if you want to get scammed"? here is a convo between me and a guy who tried to scame me. I have replased the names with "me" and "scammer" to abide by the forum rules and protect the anonimaty of the scammer.
scammer > Hi me > o/ scammer > my mate is iterested in the archon me > wow that was quick me > i just put it up lol scammer > wwhere is it me > *CENSORED* scammer> hehe scammer> COuld you please setup a auction to my corp, my bannker has the isk me > for the buyout? scammer > ya me > will do scammer > Contract type : Auction<br>Availibity : Private to *CENSORED* scammer > and make the startbid empty to avoid taxes and the buy out 1.4 bil and link it here please scammer > ill pass it to my banker me > rgr let me just take it off the eve o forum scammer > kk me > i will do it uinder item exchange scammer> i cant do that me > why? scammer > my banker wishes to stay anomously scammer > on item exchange you get on history list on auctions u dont :) me > but there is no way for me to set a reserve scammer > uuuhh scammer > you can canel a auction allways assigned to corps me > no you cant scammer > you can man me > it has to be item exchange or no deal scammer > no deal then scammer > sry me > np i think your a scammer btw scammer > no scammer > way me > then get him to give you the isk and you do it me > or get him to do it through an alt
LONG PAUSE
me > you there? scammer > internet problem scammer > sorry scammer > ill convo in couple of hours
At which point he logged...
The worst part is this isnt seen as an exploit so you cant pettition it. I just see no point in having a deliberate system for scammers to operate this way.
To the forum moderators im sorry if any of this is contraversial i have tried to stay within the rules of the forum and i didnt see anything banning posting of player to player convoes. its just people deserve to have the facts so others dont get caught out.
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Imhothar Xarodit
Minmatar Wolverine Solutions Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.03.14 17:22:00 -
[2]
Yes, that is uttermost ****.
Simply allow the creator to cancel an auction anytime he wants, even if ther eare already bids on it.
And ffs, MAKA AN EVE DOCUMENTATION !!!
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Derkan
Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2007.03.14 18:38:00 -
[3]
The dev that created this needed some quick isk so he created this loophole j/k
On a more serious note, this feature should be removed/fixed as it serves no purpose to anyone but the scammers. It's wasting my time as a player when over half of the customers(so to speak) try to pull this trick on me when i'm conducting my trade business.
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Darius Shakor
Minmatar Freelance Unincorporated Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2007.03.14 19:06:00 -
[4]
Just remember people that CCP intentionally leave systems with gaps in them for scammers to use as they are as much a part of the game as pirates, nbsi alliances, mercs and (god forbid) roleplayers.
There are secure forms of contract and non secure forms intentionally. It is the consumer's responsibility to be vigilant. If a player does not ask themselves why someone would insist on a private auction instead of a private item exchange when a price has already been agreed to then they will be scammed. I know people say they can dodge sales tax that way (not sure if it is true or nt as I have not used it) but if thats really of major concern to them they should do a direct item trade in a station instead. They have to fly there to collect it anyway so it is not like they are going out of their way at some point. If they are honest they will make that slight inconvenience and all is well.
It may suck that people abuse other peoples naive nature or trust, but thats a fundimental part of the game according to the devs. And it always should be imo. ------
Shakor Clan Information Portal |
gggggggreat
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Posted - 2007.03.14 23:43:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Darius Shakor Just remember people that CCP intentionally leave systems with gaps in them for scammers to use as they are as much a part of the game as pirates, nbsi alliances, mercs and (god forbid) roleplayers.
There are secure forms of contract and non secure forms intentionally. It is the consumer's responsibility to be vigilant. If a player does not ask themselves why someone would insist on a private auction instead of a private item exchange when a price has already been agreed to then they will be scammed. I know people say they can dodge sales tax that way (not sure if it is true or nt as I have not used it) but if thats really of major concern to them they should do a direct item trade in a station instead. They have to fly there to collect it anyway so it is not like they are going out of their way at some point. If they are honest they will make that slight inconvenience and all is well.
It may suck that people abuse other peoples naive nature or trust, but thats a fundimental part of the game according to the devs. And it always should be imo.
I respect your opinion but im affraid it doesnt quiet cut it on this one. Yes there should be areas of the game were people can get one over on eachother and leapfrog through unfair means. But in this case the private auction serves NO other purpose. If the only justification for an aspect of the game is for scams then then this utility is not functional and surely an aspect of this forum is to improve eves function?
Anyway i think you get my point.
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Aramendel
Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2007.03.15 01:23:00 -
[6]
There exists no private auction. Try making one limited on one person. It won't work.
You can, however, make an auction limited on a corp and alliance. And if that one only cosists of the scammer (and maybe a few alts) it is essentially the same thing. But the difference is: corp/alliance auctions have legitimate uses. Removing them because some people use them to scam other people who are plain out stupid or too lazy to bother to thing for a second is not really something what I would call justified.
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Darius Shakor
Minmatar Freelance Unincorporated Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2007.03.15 11:56:00 -
[7]
Originally by: gggggggreat
Originally by: Darius Shakor Just remember people that CCP intentionally leave systems with gaps in them for scammers to use as they are as much a part of the game as pirates, nbsi alliances, mercs and (god forbid) roleplayers.
There are secure forms of contract and non secure forms intentionally. It is the consumer's responsibility to be vigilant. If a player does not ask themselves why someone would insist on a private auction instead of a private item exchange when a price has already been agreed to then they will be scammed. I know people say they can dodge sales tax that way (not sure if it is true or nt as I have not used it) but if thats really of major concern to them they should do a direct item trade in a station instead. They have to fly there to collect it anyway so it is not like they are going out of their way at some point. If they are honest they will make that slight inconvenience and all is well.
It may suck that people abuse other peoples naive nature or trust, but thats a fundimental part of the game according to the devs. And it always should be imo.
I respect your opinion but im affraid it doesnt quiet cut it on this one. Yes there should be areas of the game were people can get one over on eachother and leapfrog through unfair means. But in this case the private auction serves NO other purpose. If the only justification for an aspect of the game is for scams then then this utility is not functional and surely an aspect of this forum is to improve eves function?
Anyway i think you get my point.
Wrong entirely.
Private auctions do have another purpose. You can make an auction internally in your own corp for your corp mates to bid on. Same with alliance mates. Thats why they were introduced and they should stay for that reason.
As I said before, there are item exchanges and direct trades in stations for pre-agreed prices. There are auctions for unagreed prices. Players using the wrong ones for half-baked reasons like dodging the sales tax are asking to be scammed. CCP endorses scams within the limits of game mechanics that are not bugged. This is a game mechanic tht works exactly as CCP intended.
And they don't document such things because: a) they want people to figure out how to scam people and be creative b) they want people to learn how they can get scammed and not make mistakes again
EVE is not a game that you should be able to play without making mistakes and learning from it. It would be boring otherwise. The problem is not the scammers or CCP, but the attitude of the victim towards scamming. ------
Shakor Clan Information Portal |
Isha Kureyon
Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.03.17 05:00:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Darius Shakor
As I said before, there are item exchanges and direct trades in stations for pre-agreed prices. There are auctions for unagreed prices. Players using the wrong ones for half-baked reasons like dodging the sales tax are asking to be scammed. CCP endorses scams within the limits of game mechanics that are not bugged. This is a game mechanic tht works exactly as CCP intended.
Well, if it's working as intended, why are they removing private auctions?
From Dev Blog "Auctions can no longer be issued to corporations outside your own alliance. That means you can still auction items to your own corporation or other corporations within your alliance, letting everyone in that corp. fight over your prize but you can no longer post an auction to just any ol' corp.
Edit: Public Auctions are still possible. This only refers to Private Auctions "
Clearly it did not work as intended otherwise it wouldnt be getting dev treatment. Basically people are using a weakness in the game mechanics for scamming, and in a way that CCP did not envision, and clearly, don't approve of.
Isha
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Tulisin Dragonflame
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Posted - 2007.03.17 06:01:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Darius Shakor Just remember people that CCP intentionally leave systems with gaps in them for scammers to use as they are as much a part of the game as pirates, nbsi alliances, mercs and (god forbid) roleplayers.
There are secure forms of contract and non secure forms intentionally. It is the consumer's responsibility to be vigilant. If a player does not ask themselves why someone would insist on a private auction instead of a private item exchange when a price has already been agreed to then they will be scammed. I know people say they can dodge sales tax that way (not sure if it is true or nt as I have not used it) but if thats really of major concern to them they should do a direct item trade in a station instead. They have to fly there to collect it anyway so it is not like they are going out of their way at some point. If they are honest they will make that slight inconvenience and all is well.
It may suck that people abuse other peoples naive nature or trust, but thats a fundimental part of the game according to the devs. And it always should be imo.
Part of scamming is using tact and ingenuity to gain trust and then break it, not using game loopholes. Scamming shouldn't be stomped out, because you are right in that it is a part of EVE, but there should not be holes in the code intentionally left for people to take advantage of others.
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Ariya Arnaud
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Posted - 2007.03.17 11:15:00 -
[10]
The freeform contracts were designed for internal corp missions, nothing else. It allows a freight dispatcher to set up missions to corpmembers about what needs to be hauled where, and the armory officer to let people help buy the 45 types of modules needed and place them in the right station.
Now, obviously, freeform can be used to scam too... However, it IS a different icon, and auction type altogether, and if you are paying attention, you shouldn't be scammed.
That said, it would probably be best if CCP limited the freeform contracts to be accessible inside your own corporation only...
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