Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Brigadine Ferathine
The Valiant Vanguard The Volition Cult
61
|
Posted - 2016.07.20 06:12:40 -
[31] - Quote
Pak Narhoo wrote:CCP Falcon wrote:We're actually considering swapping this forum software out for Discourse. We're already using it for the EVE Valkyrie ForumsGo take a look at the layout and see if you like it. Currently working on a proposal and list of requirements for it over the summer That looks like it was made for mobile with a F* desktops mentality. +1 |
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
13772
|
Posted - 2016.07.20 07:10:15 -
[32] - Quote
Brigadine Ferathine wrote:Pak Narhoo wrote:CCP Falcon wrote:We're actually considering swapping this forum software out for Discourse. We're already using it for the EVE Valkyrie ForumsGo take a look at the layout and see if you like it. Currently working on a proposal and list of requirements for it over the summer That looks like it was made for mobile with a F* desktops mentality. +1 +2
I give you ( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ Boarding bays Gÿá
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
|
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
13772
|
Posted - 2016.07.20 07:12:07 -
[33] - Quote
Gibbeous Moon wrote:CCP Falcon wrote:We're actually considering swapping this forum software out for Discourse. We're already using it for the EVE Valkyrie ForumsGo take a look at the layout and see if you like it. Currently working on a proposal and list of requirements for it over the summer Aarrggh. Please. No! This is just trendified layout with lots of wasted space and overly large text that's been the current vogue. Let's not go all hipster with the new forum: I would rather keep this forum that go for that one which has less information per page. In fact its why you are on the forum in the first place, to read the posts, not bask in glory of multitude pointless gadgets or see which font is more trendy than other.
I give you ( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ Boarding bays Gÿá
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
|
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite CODE.
2653
|
Posted - 2016.07.20 07:15:32 -
[34] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:We're actually considering swapping this forum software out for Discourse. We're already using it for the EVE Valkyrie ForumsGo take a look at the layout and see if you like it. Currently working on a proposal and list of requirements for it over the summer Why not update the current forums? The open source version has a responsive layout and is still maintained.
the Code ALWAYS wins
Elite PvPer, #74 in 2014
|
Karina Ivanovich
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
177
|
Posted - 2016.07.20 08:01:51 -
[35] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:We're actually considering swapping this forum software out for Discourse. We're already using it for the EVE Valkyrie ForumsGo take a look at the layout and see if you like it. Currently working on a proposal and list of requirements for it over the summer
I may just be a bittervet here, but I hate the Valkyrie forums. I like these old ones.
Some call me insane. If the universe is sane, then I embrace that label.
|
Pak Narhoo
Splinter Foundation
1765
|
Posted - 2016.07.20 08:17:48 -
[36] - Quote
Ima Wreckyou wrote:CCP Falcon wrote:We're actually considering swapping this forum software out for Discourse. We're already using it for the EVE Valkyrie ForumsGo take a look at the layout and see if you like it. Currently working on a proposal and list of requirements for it over the summer Why not update the current forums? The open source version has a responsive layout and is still maintained.
That is a very good question. Sounds like the most logic less troubled route to take.
Why Falcon, why another new forum when you can UPDATE the current one? |
Linus Gorp
Ministry of Propaganda and Morale Black Marker
306
|
Posted - 2016.07.20 08:32:25 -
[37] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:We're actually considering swapping this forum software out for Discourse. We're already using it for the EVE Valkyrie ForumsGo take a look at the layout and see if you like it. Currently working on a proposal and list of requirements for it over the summer Looks terrible and is way, way, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too hipster.
http://motherfuckingwebsite.com/ ;>
When you don't know the difference between there, their, and they're, you come across as being so uneducated that your viewpoint can be safely dismissed. The literate is unlikely to learn much from the illiterate.
|
Avaelica Kuershin
Paper Cats
268
|
Posted - 2016.07.20 09:53:39 -
[38] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:We're actually considering swapping this forum software out for Discourse. We're already using it for the EVE Valkyrie ForumsGo take a look at the layout and see if you like it. Currently working on a proposal and list of requirements for it over the summer
Had a look at it on my phone. Grey text on black has too little contrast. Having to wear reading glasses to read text on my phone is bad enough.
|
Sustrai Aditua
Intandofisa
416
|
Posted - 2016.07.20 12:12:53 -
[39] - Quote
If you're not impressed with the Discourse format, it's not because you fear change or you are attached to this forum's design (which actually is quite good as far as forum's go - and apparently if you ignore people who just have to access it on a smartphone). Insofar as professional design standards promulgated through decades of research (largely spurred by Madison Avenue, but also supported by Columbia University readability studies) that format (which is also quite popular in new web-based gaming enterprises) fails in every category of functionality and user friendliness. In fact, it's a design that was thrown up by someone with no regard to web design as an extension of publication - to be read, rather than viewed as would be a work of art. Specifically:
1. Its background is distracting; drawing attention away from the significant portion of its content; the text.
2. The order of its text blocks confuse the eye in terms of order; entry point/exit point.
3. The size of the text causes it to appear as elements of visual design rather than readable text.
4. The font selection has been demonstrated to cause eyestrain, which causes the eye to wander rather than focus on lines of text - word by word. (This is a particularly important flaw in a design intended to be filled with content and read.)
5. The font color (which is true for this forum as well) is demonstrated to cause eyestrain, and in some nausea, if read for an extensive period of time, again causing the eye to roam, rather than focus on content line by line - word to word.
In short it was designed by someone trying to make a cool looking web page, not as a web page designed to carry text intended to carry content requiring digestion, comprehension and discerning thought. This is a mistake commonly made by people with rudimentary graphic design training, but no training in publications production.
When one decides to make a radical change, the reasons for such a change should receive careful consideration. Not only is the "smart phone" display screen not necessarily a reason to do anything, if that is the only reason with regard to functionality, one must ask if this website is required to be viewed on a smartphone, or would this just be catering to people whose real intentions is to drag its functionality into serving their own, personal lifestyle choice.
If you have a website, such as EVE's forum, where interactability with the transfer of intricate or complicated information is intended (such as a discussion on the new way to measure a turret's damage, or the significance of the fall-off stat on a weapon) then the readability of the site is the primary function, not how cool it looks to some random web designer trying to keep pace with the current fad of what looks "cool". What looks cool will change continually. How people read and then process information will not.
If we get chased by zombies, I'm tripping you.
|
|
CCP Falcon
13024
|
Posted - 2016.07.20 13:15:05 -
[40] - Quote
Pandora Carrollon wrote:(P.S. My Current favorite is Confluence, super powerful, but maybe over kill for just BBS interactions. However, it can be split up so that you can even use it internally in CCP and just give public forum style comments their own area using about 7 different plug-ins)
We use Confluence, Jira and Hipchat extensively for working process internally, but it's just not suited to being used as forum software imo.
It's great to use as an internal wiki for documenting processes, procedures, analytics, etc, but it doesn't work too well for active discussion outside of the comments system on each page.
CCP Falcon || EVE Universe Community Manager || @CCP_Falcon
Happy Birthday To FAWLTY7! <3
|
|
|
Pandora Carrollon
Kingsman Tailors
452
|
Posted - 2016.07.20 14:24:54 -
[41] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:We use Confluence, Jira and Hipchat extensively for working process internally, but it's just not suited to being used as forum software imo.
It's great to use as an internal wiki for documenting processes, procedures, analytics, etc, but it doesn't work too well for active discussion outside of the comments system on each page.
Have you taken a look at any of the forum plug-ins for it? A couple of them look like they might fit the bill, but yeah, it's not Confluence's primary "out of the box" bread and butter. You can't make it look as spiffy as these forums or Discourse without some significant coding... but if you like, they have the API's and SDK's for it so you could make it look like and do whatever you wanted to.
And yes, I entirely agree, it blows Wiki's away. We're in the process of moving all of our internal communications besides email to it. It's pretty powerful stuff.
Be Positive GÇó Change yourself first, New Eden will come later GÇó EVE is Awesome GÇó CCP isn't the enemy GÇó Players are people too GÇó Where're the clothing blueprints GÇó Yeah, I'm still learning this game
-- Pandora's Rules to EVE by
|
Pandora Carrollon
Kingsman Tailors
452
|
Posted - 2016.07.20 14:41:50 -
[42] - Quote
Most actual 'forum' software evolved from the old dial up BBS days. That's about mid 1980's folks and pretty much the longest evolution strain in modern computer communications. It's long before email and fax machines even existed.
All of this stuff has been analyzed to death by people/institutions over time. There was a period in the 1990's where major studies were done to figure out the 'best' type of post up style format communications were. That's what launched the design of systems like the super popular vBulletin and other forums of the late 90's. This forum is pretty clearly a decendent of vBulletin and almost identical in it's layouts.
When Myspace, and later Facebook came along, they tossed out the convention in favor of ad-driven interfaces. Then Twitter with it's chat style interface and toss in Redditt which threw out any semblance of readability in favor of the all powerful 'like/dislike' vote system.
You make choices when you design these systems. If beauty is your primary desire, everything else has to take a back seat by definition. If Readability is your desire, well, you get the picture.
It's very hard to make posting software that does everything well, there's always a trade off.
Smartphones are actually anathema to modern UI. They have small screens with limited interface options. This automatically cripples them by comparison to a normal/traditional computer interface. I'm not knocking them, they just kind of need their own way of seeing the world, but that is why webpages are actually coded separately for them.
So if you designed software to be smartphone friendly, you'd have to sacrifice the interface that regular computers use... unless you are willing to spend a lot of time and effort maintaining the code base for both PC's and Smartphones. Tablets are a strange beast that lives someplace in between those two worlds and while not mastering either, don't suffer the full drawbacks of either.
My personal take is that it's possible to have one size fits all 'forum software' but it's not going to be the best looking or working on any platform.
Be Positive GÇó Change yourself first, New Eden will come later GÇó EVE is Awesome GÇó CCP isn't the enemy GÇó Players are people too GÇó Where're the clothing blueprints GÇó Yeah, I'm still learning this game
-- Pandora's Rules to EVE by
|
Kaivarian Coste
Beyond Imports and Exports
77
|
Posted - 2016.07.20 15:42:55 -
[43] - Quote
If I'm on the phone, I just don't bother looking at the forums. Instead I look at reddit.com/r/Eve/ |
Sustrai Aditua
Intandofisa
422
|
Posted - 2016.07.20 17:26:50 -
[44] - Quote
lol The problem with "one size fits all" is it fits nobody. My comments about design have to do with studies that track eye movement, and human behavior upon seeing, or not seeing something. Madison Avenue, of course, originated its interest with presentations such as billboards and newspaper ads. Columbia University was drawn into the subject when newspapers began to feel the heat from television in competing for readers...or customers...and with the advent of the computer we now say "users."
Functionality means X depending upon what school you're speaking to. Website functionality (more often than not) deals with navigating pages, finding tables of contents or links, the load speeds,...clickability as it were. Readability has to do with how humans obtain and retain information contained within text only. Regardless of all the bells and whistles available to digital presentation, how the eye functions in conjunction with the cognitive processes remains relatively constant for a species.
You might notice the black, serif text on a white background is still boiler plate for experienced publications to present lengthy textual material. This isn't because the ones doing it are unaware of, or are too stick-in-the-mud to use the almost unlimited colors and fonts available (and presentable) in the digital arena.
It has been ably demonstrated the human eye attached to the human brain reacts to all these elements, color, form, order, placement...and not all these reactions are conducive to the purpose of obtaining and retaining information contained within text. In fact, some of the possibilities available will negate, or prevent this process. Some color combinations will actually induce nausea. Others can cause headaches. However, for the purposes of readability, just flagging concentration, or wandering eye focus is a fatal failing.
There is a move for games using forums to minimize the actual contact between game management and players. Such forums are being provided only to meet a customer expectation, rather than function as a venue for interaction. Such forums can use the billboard ad approach of splashy colors and dramatic fonts to create a momentary rush of excitement from visual stimuli. However they were not intended to be used to convey any usable information. Success in communication is not a priority with these.
Whereas with the EVE forum we tend to expect to engage in rather involved discussions somewhat of a technical nature. We are indeed blessed with members of our playerbase able to walk us less tech-literate people through some of the more involved and intricate features of EVE. To do this though, obviously, their ability to write, and our ability to understand what was written is the key feature here, and what I'd daresay sets our forum apart from any other gaming forum - just another area where the EVE Community is digital history happening before your eyes.
I know I'm stating the obvious here, but gee, once you know enough what isn't obvious? I'd suggest any changes with this forum be done with regard to functionality in processing information conveyed through text, first. The last thing I'd consider is what a 13-year old thinks is cool (this week). Whether or not to format for screens other than the PC sized screen would entirely depend on usage numbers.
As was ably mentioned before, doing double duty (PC browser/smartphone screen) could become costly. You'd have to justify the expense to me. We'd roll with the clear majority. 50/50 wouldn't cut it. Why should CCP pay for your lifestyle choices? If you can access the forum on the same machine you keep the game on, what obliges them to also have a version for your handheld device? Nothing that I can see.
PS As an aside: Much of the TL;DR difficulty people have here is in background/letter color/font choice. This forum uses a dark background with white sans serif typeface smaller than 12point in actual size (not size on the label). This violates the information we have about eye-strain and fatigue. It also negatively impacts the attention span, and the brain's subconscious preferences for the method it wants to use to obtain information. Just sayin'...
If we get chased by zombies, I'm tripping you.
|
John Volan
Volan Enterprises
28
|
Posted - 2016.07.20 18:56:14 -
[45] - Quote
I actually like these forums and viewing them on a smartphone is a minor inconvenience at best. Unless there's some kind of backend problems I'm not aware of I don't see why they need to be changed at all. They were a big step up from the last iteration in my books and I don't think they've gotten so dated as to warrant a switch, especially not to something as questionable as the Discourse example. |
Geronimo McVain
McVain's Minning and Exploration Inc
149
|
Posted - 2016.07.20 19:07:32 -
[46] - Quote
Well, I may be too old (40+) but I really hate it to type a longer text on a Smartphone. Just watching the forum is enough for me on a Smartphone so I can live with limited functionality there. What I would love is a good reply functionality that cuts the text down to the thing you want to reply without any former text. Responsive design doesn't mean that you have all the same functionality on any platform. |
Pandora Carrollon
Kingsman Tailors
460
|
Posted - 2016.07.20 19:35:15 -
[47] - Quote
Geronimo McVain wrote:Well, I may be too old (40+) but I really hate it to type a longer text on a Smartphone. Just watching the forum is enough for me on a Smartphone so I can live with limited functionality there. What I would love is a good reply functionality that cuts the text down to the thing you want to reply without any former text. Responsive design doesn't mean that you have all the same functionality on any platform.
This might be able to be done with a smartphone app, but CCP would have to code one up that could send and receive Twitter like posts for the forums.
Be Positive GÇó Change yourself first, New Eden will come later GÇó EVE is Awesome GÇó CCP isn't the enemy GÇó Players are people too GÇó Where're the clothing blueprints GÇó Yeah, I'm still learning this game
-- Pandora's Rules to EVE by
|
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
12610
|
Posted - 2016.07.20 19:50:46 -
[48] - Quote
Quote: It's long before email and fax machines even existed
Well, that's plainly not true.
Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .
Bumble's Space Log
|
Pandora Carrollon
Kingsman Tailors
460
|
Posted - 2016.07.20 19:55:06 -
[49] - Quote
I'm not talking about the concept! First serious faxing was in the Napoleonic Wars. I'm talking about the modern variation of the fax machine and the modern version of email.
Taking me out of context... Bad Bumble... no biscuit.
Be Positive GÇó Change yourself first, New Eden will come later GÇó EVE is Awesome GÇó CCP isn't the enemy GÇó Players are people too GÇó Where're the clothing blueprints GÇó Yeah, I'm still learning this game
-- Pandora's Rules to EVE by
|
tiberiusric
Comply Or Die
254
|
Posted - 2016.07.20 20:23:40 -
[50] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:We're actually considering swapping this forum software out for Discourse. We're already using it for the EVE Valkyrie ForumsGo take a look at the layout and see if you like it. Currently working on a proposal and list of requirements for it over the summer
Please God no it's like a real crap gamer site |
|
Noah Reese
25
|
Posted - 2016.07.20 20:49:26 -
[51] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:We're actually considering swapping this forum software out for Discourse. We're already using it for the EVE Valkyrie ForumsGo take a look at the layout and see if you like it. Currently working on a proposal and list of requirements for it over the summer
Yes, lets alienate your current customers even more. That sounds like a really good business plan. |
Brigadine Ferathine
The Valiant Vanguard The Volition Cult
63
|
Posted - 2016.07.20 20:55:13 -
[52] - Quote
Noah Reese wrote:CCP Falcon wrote:We're actually considering swapping this forum software out for Discourse. We're already using it for the EVE Valkyrie ForumsGo take a look at the layout and see if you like it. Currently working on a proposal and list of requirements for it over the summer Yes, lets alienate your current customers even more. That sounds like a really good business plan. CCP is still around aren't they?
|
Sobaan Tali
Caldari Quick Reaction Force
967
|
Posted - 2016.07.20 20:57:49 -
[53] - Quote
Can't win them all, eh CCP Falcon? One says the Valkyrie forums looks like utter ****, another will pop in to say thanks with a smile. Give them all the best chocolate chip cookies in the world and a few will want almond cookies instead.
Especially with us, the Eve playerbase, no matter what you do someone will find a reason to *****...some even ***** for no reason at all. You know, human logic and all that.
"Tomahawks?"
"----in' A, right?"
"Trouble is, those things cost like a million and a half each."
"----, you pay me half that and I'll hump in some c4 and blow the ---- out of it my own damn self."
|
Noah Reese
27
|
Posted - 2016.07.20 21:52:31 -
[54] - Quote
Sobaan Tali wrote:Can't win them all, eh CCP Falcon? One says the Valkyrie forums looks like utter ****, another will pop in to say thanks with a smile. Give them all the best chocolate chip cookies in the world and a few will want almond cookies instead. Especially with us, the Eve playerbase, no matter what you do someone will find a reason to *****...some even ***** for no reason at all. You know, human logic and all that.
Are you implying that the Valk forums look good, are easily readable and an improvement over what we have atm? |
Sobaan Tali
Caldari Quick Reaction Force
968
|
Posted - 2016.07.21 08:40:12 -
[55] - Quote
Noah Reese wrote:Sobaan Tali wrote:Can't win them all, eh CCP Falcon? One says the Valkyrie forums looks like utter ****, another will pop in to say thanks with a smile. Give them all the best chocolate chip cookies in the world and a few will want almond cookies instead. Especially with us, the Eve playerbase, no matter what you do someone will find a reason to *****...some even ***** for no reason at all. You know, human logic and all that. Are you implying that the Valk forums look good, are easily readable and an improvement over what we have atm?
No. Read what I said. If I was implying anything it was that no matter what, someone will undoubtedly disagree, regardless as to whether their reasoning is sound or not. It was an observation that some have already expressed positive and negative responses, as is to be expected when dealing with something that affects especially large groups of people. Stuff like this tends to create subjective reactions by people.
And, just in case you're still curious, I actually have no more trouble reading the Valkyrie forums over ours, though it is noticeably missing quite a few elements when compared and has a little more emphasis on good looks over function than I'd prefer. It looks good but has a somewhat half-finished feel to it. I haven't used the Valkyrie forums to any extensive degree so I don't know how well it stacks up to things like site performance and ease of use comparatively yet, so I'm rather neutral about it.
"Tomahawks?"
"----in' A, right?"
"Trouble is, those things cost like a million and a half each."
"----, you pay me half that and I'll hump in some c4 and blow the ---- out of it my own damn self."
|
Geronimo McVain
McVain's Minning and Exploration Inc
149
|
Posted - 2016.07.21 08:52:21 -
[56] - Quote
Mad Ani EVE TV/RADIO GÇó24/7 stream GÇó3rd party super ser... |
MicDeath Titan
Titans Guild The Amish Mafia
116
|
Posted - 2016.07.21 09:30:11 -
[57] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:We're actually considering swapping this forum software out for Discourse. We're already using it for the EVE Valkyrie ForumsGo take a look at the layout and see if you like it. Currently working on a proposal and list of requirements for it over the summer CCP_Falcon, please, pleaaaase don't go with mobile design for pc. keep it separate. please I beg of you. |
Remiel Pollard
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
7648
|
Posted - 2016.07.21 10:07:30 -
[58] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:We're actually considering swapping this forum software out for Discourse. We're already using it for the EVE Valkyrie ForumsGo take a look at the layout and see if you like it. Currently working on a proposal and list of requirements for it over the summer
Gonna be honest with you.
Those forums make me glad I didn't get Valkyrie.
In all fairness though, they're still a lot better than the Elite: Dangerous forums and their ban-happy mods. The community there is cancer.
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
- Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
|
Dibz
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
81
|
Posted - 2016.07.21 10:28:24 -
[59] - Quote
Noah Reese wrote:Are you implying that the Valk forums look good, are easily readable and an improvement over what we have atm?
They're better to read on a phone than the EVE forums. |
|
Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire
15468
|
Posted - 2016.07.21 11:30:16 -
[60] - Quote
oldforums still my favo
/c
GÿàGÿàGÿà Secure 3rd party service GÿàGÿàGÿà
Visit my in-game channel 'Holy Veldspar'
Twitter/Instagram @Chribba
|
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |