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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Investor Joe
Litla Sundlaugin
24
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Posted - 2016.07.03 03:52:35 -
[1] - Quote
Hello, MDers!
I am here to offer a service. There is a little-known feature of private citadels that allows you to post buy orders that are only visible to people with access to the citadel, but which will still otherwise behave as normal market buy orders.
This allows you to overbid people's buy orders without them having any way of noticing (orders posted in citadels are also invisible to CREST). People will often still sell to the highest buy order they see on the market, which allows you to safely overbid your orders on most items without actually paying more during the transaction.
https://i.gyazo.com/1472557e2b4fb64816d747e0337e869e.png
char on left has no access, char on right has access. char on right has highest buy order so when people sell to the highest buy order that they see they will sell it to the char on right for the price of the highest buy order that they see
This allows you to completely corner the buy order market if you have a Fortizar with a market module and the correct privacy settings. It just so happens that I have a Fortizar with this exact configuration that I am selling access to. It is located in Sakenta which is 2 jumps from Jita, but since Sakenta is a dead end system it acts the same way as a system 1 jump away.
There are several price tiers I am offering and they are as follows:
500m and 0.6% tax 600m and 0.5% tax 700m and 0.4% tax 800m and 0.3% tax 900m and 0.2% tax 1000m and 0.1% tax
Each of these tiers guarantees access to my citadel for 11 days, at which point you will have to pay again to continue using the citadel. Although you are buying 10days of access, since I'm not on 24/7 I'll be billing in periods of 11 days. you can also buy 22 or 33 days or however many you want. |
Alexi Stokov
State War Academy Caldari State
122
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Posted - 2016.07.03 04:08:13 -
[2] - Quote
If you set an order in a citadel that could be filled elsewhere, in this case Jita, don't you have to pay Jita's tax/broker fees when it's filled? |
Investor Joe
Litla Sundlaugin
24
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Posted - 2016.07.03 04:12:47 -
[3] - Quote
not if you set it in the citadel with a range of 2 jumps in this case then it covers everything in 2 jump radius wich is a total of 5 systems in the case of sakenta |
Investor Joe
Litla Sundlaugin
24
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Posted - 2016.07.03 04:16:48 -
[4] - Quote
you will obviously have to pay the jita tax when you actually sell the item afterwards though |
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
2633
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Posted - 2016.07.03 04:36:29 -
[5] - Quote
Interesting gap, which probably can be fixed easily by making it so, that you always sell to the highest visible order. Did you submit a bug report?
I'm my own NPC alt.
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Investor Joe
Litla Sundlaugin
24
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Posted - 2016.07.03 04:43:13 -
[6] - Quote
that would require a complete rewrite of how the market works i think but possibly.
i have not personally submitted a bug report but i know people have and as far as i know there were no problems from them, in any case ccp are aware of this |
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
2633
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Posted - 2016.07.03 05:01:01 -
[7] - Quote
Investor Joe wrote:that would require a complete rewrite of how the market works i think but possibly.
i have not personally submitted a bug report but i know people have and as far as i know there were no problems from them, in any case ccp are aware of this Ok, I sent a ticket, let's see. All orders a player could act on should be visible. Range buy orders from citadels create that edge case, where the simple authority check is not sufficient. Either they are ignored when selling or made visible. Making them visible (if I can act on) is probably the better option.
I'm my own NPC alt.
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TheSmokingHertog
Julia's Interstellar Trade Emperium
401
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Posted - 2016.07.03 05:11:36 -
[8] - Quote
This seems more like an exploid as a bug... but still, seems a design flaw :P ;)
"Dogma is kind of like quantum physics, observing the dogma state will change it." ~ CCP Prism X
"Schrödinger's Missile. I dig it." ~ Makari Aeron
-= "Brain in a Box on Singularity" - April 2015 =-
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Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine In Tea We Trust
1434
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Posted - 2016.07.03 05:19:37 -
[9] - Quote
I think the chances of this being ruled as an exploit are rather high.
You should take that into consideration, since CCP could potentially take away your proceeds or ban you at some point in the future. |
probag Bear
Xiong Offices
92
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Posted - 2016.07.03 06:26:45 -
[10] - Quote
Hey. I just came from a 4th of July party, so sorry if tipsy.
This has been around since before the Citadel patch on SiSi. That's where I figured it out. As far as I understand, this is "working as intended". Blah blah blah, this paragraph isn't why I came here.
Did you figure it out on your own? OR Did you figure it out from my experiment of cornering PLEX buy orders for 3 days? OR Did you figure it out from my anonymous trustee's games with other items?
Please reply, I am very interested. I will share all the info I have if you answer that for me. |
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Investor Joe
Litla Sundlaugin
24
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Posted - 2016.07.03 06:56:46 -
[11] - Quote
corp mate first told me, a few hours after he tells me you start talking about it on slack |
probag Bear
Xiong Offices
92
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Posted - 2016.07.03 07:15:33 -
[12] - Quote
Well. That's disappointing, because I was actually talking about another thing altogether. But I guess this was similar enough to the recent public-citadel-order bug that me explaining that helped you find this.
This isn't as narratively interesting as I'd hoped, but hey, it's finally public! Now a fix will finally come! Or the other case, with stuff |
Investor Joe
Litla Sundlaugin
24
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Posted - 2016.07.03 07:22:24 -
[13] - Quote
What were you talking about? |
probag Bear
Xiong Offices
92
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Posted - 2016.07.03 07:47:06 -
[14] - Quote
There was a bug after the update on June 28th, which made some people think off-shoring had been patched out. It worked exactly like this, minus the invisibility. I spelled out the mechanics, and, as far as I can tell right now, it either made your source ask "What if you coupled this with a private Fortizar?", or it made your source ask "What if probag Bear already knows exactly what this patch broke, because he's already been taking advantage of this feature somehow?" |
Karin Yang
Riemannian Manifold Torus
38
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Posted - 2016.07.03 08:09:26 -
[15] - Quote
I thought of this, but I thought ccp is not as stupid as this. |
probag Bear
Xiong Offices
92
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Posted - 2016.07.03 08:15:06 -
[16] - Quote
Karin Yang wrote:I thought of this, but I thought ccp is not as stupid as this.
I actually flipped a coin on which person to tell, and pass the onus of responsibility to. You were one of the two options. |
Karin Yang
Riemannian Manifold Torus
38
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Posted - 2016.07.03 08:29:19 -
[17] - Quote
probag Bear wrote:Karin Yang wrote:I thought of this, but I thought ccp is not as stupid as this. I actually flipped a coin on which person to tell, and pass the onus of responsibility to. You were one of the two options. well, i thought of this possibility because that i haven't seen your citadel for a while. so i wondered that this bug/feature might be the case. |
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
2639
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Posted - 2016.07.03 11:30:31 -
[18] - Quote
Karin Yang wrote:I thought of this, but I thought ccp is not as stupid as this. This can't be 'working as intended', unless it gives you the money you deserve when you sell it immediately. Would be no surprise to me, if they overlooked that. CCP has no idea how their features work, pretty sure they didn't anticipate offshoring or any other side effect of the private markets and fee changes.
Maybe they leave it in the game to futher go towards the goal to destroy the big public market hubs and move trade to private islands.
I'm my own NPC alt.
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Cara Forelli
Meticulously Indifferent
1885
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Posted - 2016.07.03 16:53:48 -
[19] - Quote
Someone had better explain this very slowly so CCP can understand what they're really looking at.
Adventures
New player with questions? Join my public channel in game: House Forelli
Titan's Lament
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Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
6079
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Posted - 2016.07.03 19:05:46 -
[20] - Quote
It's being brought up.
Woo! CSM XI!
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
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Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine In Tea We Trust
1437
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Posted - 2016.07.04 02:16:30 -
[21] - Quote
Tipa Riot wrote:CCP has no idea how their features work, pretty sure they didn't anticipate offshoring or any other side effect of the private markets and fee changes. The offshoring functionality was pointed out in the Upcoming Features thread back in mid March, long before it hit the servers. I certainly posted a full description of the method and I doubt I was the only one.
Bad Bobby wrote:In the case I'm describing, you would place your buy orders in the Citadel and place your sell orders at Jita 4-4. The majority of your stock would land directly in Jita 4-4 and what little doesn't can be moved by a combination of asset safety and courier contracts.
If you choose Niyabainen for the sake of argument, your 1 jump range will only include Jita, New Caldari and Perimeter.
It's not that inconvenient for a 5% advantage over anyone who doesn't do the same. So, maybe they don't read their own feedback threads or maybe they knew it would happen and thought it would be interesting to see where the players would take it. |
Kukaryamba
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
5
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Posted - 2016.07.04 09:51:32 -
[22] - Quote
I thought people would like a mirror of this thread |
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CCP Larrikin
C C P C C P Alliance
548
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Posted - 2016.07.04 11:35:50 -
[23] - Quote
Hi Mates,
This issue is known about. Its unintended and will be fixed soon :)
Cheers, CCP Larrikin and Team Five-0
Game Designer | Team Five-0 | https://twitter.com/CCP_Larrikin
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Investor Joe
Litla Sundlaugin
24
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Posted - 2016.07.04 16:50:05 -
[24] - Quote
will i be getting a reward for sharing this with ccp and the public |
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
12500
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Posted - 2016.07.04 17:02:46 -
[25] - Quote
Investor Joe wrote:will i be getting a reward for sharing this with ccp and the public
Your reward has presumably been the benefiting from this unintended event (if you did)
Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .
Bumble's Space Log
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Karin Yang
Riemannian Manifold Torus
38
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Posted - 2016.07.04 17:54:57 -
[26] - Quote
wow, ccp response faster than i expected |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
5716
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Posted - 2016.07.04 17:57:13 -
[27] - Quote
Investor Joe wrote:will i be getting a reward for sharing this with ccp and the public
On the EA forums I have done the same and they rewarded me with a permanent ban
Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel
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probag Bear
Xiong Offices
92
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Posted - 2016.07.04 18:03:07 -
[28] - Quote
Investor Joe wrote:will i be getting a reward for sharing this with ccp and the public
It was shared with CCP and the public way back before the Citadel patch. The only reason I knew about this is because rhivre commented on it in one of her SiSi trips. |
Elizabeth Norn
Nornir Research
895
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Posted - 2016.07.04 18:18:42 -
[29] - Quote
Investor Joe wrote:will i be getting a reward for sharing this with ccp and the public
I'd consider not getting permabanned for publicly announcing and trying to sell an exploit instead of disclosing it privately via a petition / bug report enough of a reward . |
Always Shi
t Posting
41
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Posted - 2016.07.04 20:48:22 -
[30] - Quote
Investor Joe wrote:will i be getting a reward for sharing this with ccp and the public
Of course, enjoy your free Like. |
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Ibrahim Tash-Murkon
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
566
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Posted - 2016.07.05 06:14:39 -
[31] - Quote
Investor Joe wrote:will i be getting a reward for sharing this with ccp and the public
That is so rich I'm afraid I clogged an artery reading it.
"I give you the destiny of Faith, and you will bring its message to every planet of every star in the heavens: Go forth, conquer in my Name, and reclaim that which I have given." - Book of Reclaiming 22:13
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TOJICTOTA
True Power Team Brisingamen
64
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Posted - 2016.07.05 07:07:54 -
[32] - Quote
Investor Joe wrote:will i be getting a reward for sharing this with ccp and the public
yup. I already cursed you for it. just a joke.
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Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine In Tea We Trust
1440
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Posted - 2016.07.05 12:22:46 -
[33] - Quote
"Patch Notes" wrote:Ranged buy orders from non-public Citadels are now shown in the market order list, as they can fulfilled from stations in range. |
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