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Elmicker
Unscoped Myriad Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.04 21:12:00 -
[1]
So, my industrial alt is basically maxed out in that area, and is quickly approaching the point where i'm going to have to decide which battleship 5 to do for the carrier training. I don't want to train for the chimera due to its fitting problems or the Nidhoggur due to it being generally crap.
Personally, I'm leaning more towards the Archon. Although it lacks the damage bonus and has a slightly smaller drone bay, the way i see it, my carrier will only ever be doling out fighters from a pos and acting as a glorified hauler, so the damage bonus on the thanatos will never get any use and the tank on the archon may well just save my carrier if i'm ever caught in the open.
So just wondering what you all think, I'm not really interested in numbers or how many percent x is better than y, but rather your personal experiences with the two ships and how they've performed.
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Shania Eria
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Posted - 2007.03.04 21:15:00 -
[2]
Archon is upfront combat & support
Thanatos is hide in a pos and assign fighters
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Sliie
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Posted - 2007.03.04 21:16:00 -
[3]
Get them both...
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Shania Eria
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Posted - 2007.03.04 21:16:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Sliie Get them both...
buy me an Avatar and an Erebus first:) then buy those 2
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AngryCanuk
TribalWar Inc EVE Animal Control
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Posted - 2007.03.04 21:34:00 -
[5]
A thanatos can have a decent tank as well, good enough to put out to front in battles. Plus the extra dmg can be nice as well
basically its how you play, if your someone who likes to pick fights get the archon, its extra tank can save you. If you want to just sit at a pos and put out fighters, get the thanatos, because the extra dmg will help your friends.
If you are smart and dont put yourself in foolish situations id suggest the thanatos, because then you get the best of both worlds. A good tank, which if your smart you wont need more of, and the best fighters.
Honor does not have to be defended. - Robert J. Sawyer
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king jks
New Age Solutions New Age Solutions Amalgamated
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Posted - 2007.03.04 21:38:00 -
[6]
Archon all the way tbh. The tank you can put on that thing is ungodly, and capital ships are meant to tank like a biaaaaaaatch. ------------------------ Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds. -Albert Einstein |
Rockbox
Amarr Exit 13
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Posted - 2007.03.04 21:58:00 -
[7]
Wrong.
IF your using a carrier for small gang pvp, tank dosent matter as much tbh, only retards would primary a carrier, and if you whole gang dies and now your under attack, irregardless of your tanking abilitys your probably going to die with no backup...
Exit-13 putting chocolate in your peanutbutter since '07 |
Tulisin Dragonflame
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Posted - 2007.03.04 22:14:00 -
[8]
Thanatos for mission running.
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Tulisin Dragonflame
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Posted - 2007.03.04 22:14:00 -
[9]
Thanatos for mission running.
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lofty29
Athanasius Inc.
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Posted - 2007.03.04 22:30:00 -
[10]
Thanatos doesnt get fighter damage bonus when its assigned them to someone in a fight while it sits at a POS --- http://static.griefwatch.net/gallery/18028383f236b20e4c0f6d7492e58408.gif
Please keep your signature below the 24000 bytes limit.- Thx Pirlouit
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.03.04 22:30:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Rockbox IF your using a carrier for small gang pvp, tank dosent matter as much tbh, only retards would primary a carrier, and if you whole gang dies and now your under attack, irregardless of your tanking abilitys your probably going to die with no backup...
Please stop using the non-word "IRregardLESS", just say "regardless" instead.
First off, Archon can "generate" a bit more capacitor per second as a Thanatos with typical fitings, and it can survive quite a bit longer on buffer alone as a Thanatos. This means that it can afford to remote transfer a lot more in time as a Thanatos.
Thanatos gets bonus to remote shield/armor range, so it can help with any type of tank, and can also help with POS shield replenishing. Archon however gets a bonus to remote cap/armor transfer range, and seing how most PvP setups are armor tanks, cap transfer seems like the (much) better alternative, as you can easily aid a "heavy NOS victim" and keep him both firing and tanking at the same time... while from a Thanatos, you can only help with his tank (unless he always sits ridiculously close to you).
In small gang PvP an Archon can very well be the better alternative. Even with 15 Firbolgs out (so L5 carrier and 5 drone control units), you still only deal a maximum of 1000 DPS from an Archon and 1250 DPS from a Thanatos, so forgive me if I don't see this damage increase as anything spectacular... as even keeping just a single friendly cruiser alive for the duration of the battle is better in most cases. _ MySkills | Module/Rig stacknerfing explained |
Ganandorf
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Posted - 2007.03.05 16:30:00 -
[12]
the only viable thing is if you wanna tank 33% more by ship bonus alone or have 25% more damage on frontline
Thanatos' bonus does not apply if fighters are assigned
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Deathbarrage
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Posted - 2007.03.05 16:31:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Deathbarrage on 05/03/2007 16:28:32
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Rockbox IF your using a carrier for small gang pvp, tank dosent matter as much tbh, only retards would primary a carrier, and if you whole gang dies and now your under attack, irregardless of your tanking abilitys your probably going to die with no backup...
Please stop using the non-word "IRregardLESS", just say "regardless" instead.
First off, Archon can "generate" a bit more capacitor per second as a Thanatos with typical fitings, and it can survive quite a bit longer on buffer alone as a Thanatos. This means that it can afford to remote transfer a lot more in time as a Thanatos.
Thanatos gets bonus to remote shield/armor range, so it can help with any type of tank, and can also help with POS shield replenishing. Archon however gets a bonus to remote cap/armor transfer range, and seing how most PvP setups are armor tanks, cap transfer seems like the (much) better alternative, as you can easily aid a "heavy NOS victim" and keep him both firing and tanking at the same time... while from a Thanatos, you can only help with his tank (unless he always sits ridiculously close to you).
In small gang PvP an Archon can very well be the better alternative. Even with 15 Firbolgs out (so L5 carrier and 5 drone control units), you still only deal a maximum of 1000 DPS from an Archon and 1250 DPS from a Thanatos, so forgive me if I don't see this damage increase as anything spectacular... as even keeping just a single friendly cruiser alive for the duration of the battle is better in most cases.
you deal more dmg
edit: 1875 dps from a max skilled thanatos to be exact, with 15 firbolgs
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Lilan Kahn
Amarr The Littlest Hobos
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Posted - 2007.03.05 17:14:00 -
[14]
Originally by: AngryCanuk A thanatos can have a decent tank as well, good enough to put out to front in battles. Plus the extra dmg can be nice as well
basically its how you play, if your someone who likes to pick fights get the archon, its extra tank can save you. If you want to just sit at a pos and put out fighters, get the thanatos, because the extra dmg will help your friends.
If you are smart and dont put yourself in foolish situations id suggest the thanatos, because then you get the best of both worlds. A good tank, which if your smart you wont need more of, and the best fighters.
the dmg wil only apply if your the one direktly controling them.
Originally by: Eris Discordia
We break after X amount of threads, then we go wild and then we get our medication.
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Illuminaty
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Posted - 2007.03.06 15:28:00 -
[15]
Well I've been looking at the Thantos too since I'm getting really close as well.
The biggest pure Tech II tank without leadership mods I've been able to calculate for the Thanatos:
5,591 EM armor per second 3,588 Explosive armor per second 4,969 Kinetic armor per second 5,293 Thermal armor per second
Compared to a pure Tech II Archon with carrier IV:
6,988 EM armor per second 7,764 Explosive armor per second 8,284 Kinetic armor per second 6,210 Thermal armor per second
Assuming my maths didn't take a wrong turn somewhere. The Archon seems like it could have a 50% stronger tank.
However, the Thanatos can fit a sensor booster II and isn't really going to be botherd by NOS or energy Neuts.
If the Archon wants to fit a sensor booster, it has to compromise its cap.
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AngryCanuk
TribalWar Inc EVE Animal Control
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Posted - 2007.03.06 15:47:00 -
[16]
no denying that the archon is the best defensive carrier out there. But to say the thanatos cant be defensive, is plain wrong.
Honor does not have to be defended. - Robert J. Sawyer
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Thesiuss
Oberon Incorporated Prime Orbital Systems
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Posted - 2007.03.06 17:02:00 -
[17]
Where are you all getting this info about the Thanatos fighter bonus only applies if it's in direct control of fighters and not assigned.
Last time I tested it, my damage output was the exact same for direct control and assigned.
Oberon Inc Website--------------Oberon Sales Page [IMG]http://www.oberongaming.com/sigs/thes2.jpg[/IM |
darth solo
Insurgency
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Posted - 2007.03.06 17:29:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Rockbox Wrong.
IF your using a carrier for small gang pvp, tank dosent matter as much tbh, only retards would primary a carrier, and if you whole gang dies and now your under attack, irregardless of your tanking abilitys your probably going to die with no backup...
this guy gets it.
carriers are fleet support, they are designed to assist the fleet.
While the nid is the worst looking carrier on paper it does give the most options of med slots to fit toys. it has a fairly decent tank.
if a carrier is held down it just a matter of time before it dies.
d solo. celes apoc new kilboard |
Deathbarrage
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Posted - 2007.03.06 19:14:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Thesiuss Where are you all getting this info about the Thanatos fighter bonus only applies if it's in direct control of fighters and not assigned.
Last time I tested it, my damage output was the exact same for direct control and assigned.
check again
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Turtla
U Itachi
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Posted - 2007.03.06 19:34:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Deathbarrage
Originally by: Thesiuss Where are you all getting this info about the Thanatos fighter bonus only applies if it's in direct control of fighters and not assigned.
Last time I tested it, my damage output was the exact same for direct control and assigned.
check again
I just cheacked and im doing the same dmg when in control or the fighters assigned.
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xenodia
Gallente RONA Corporation RONA Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.06 22:57:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Turtla
Originally by: Deathbarrage
Originally by: Thesiuss Where are you all getting this info about the Thanatos fighter bonus only applies if it's in direct control of fighters and not assigned.
Last time I tested it, my damage output was the exact same for direct control and assigned.
check again
I just cheacked and im doing the same dmg when in control or the fighters assigned.
That actually makes sense, since the fighters when assigned dont pick up any bonuses (ship or skill) from the person they are assigned TO. To be honest though, I always assumed you lost the damage bonus when you delegated them. I cant say ive actually tested it. I'll have to find something to shoot tonight and test out damage both ways
This signature space for rent |
Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.03.06 23:07:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Turtla I just cheacked and im doing the same dmg when in control or the fighters assigned.
Even if fighters are in a different grid than your Thanatos ? _ MySkills | Module/Rig stacknerfing explained |
Thesiuss
Oberon Incorporated Prime Orbital Systems
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Posted - 2007.03.06 23:39:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Thesiuss on 06/03/2007 23:41:12 I ran extensive tests awhile ago and in ever instance my fighter bonus was applied while fighters where in system.
Now unless someone comes here and post some actually data saying otherwise it is misinformation that the thanatos bonus don't apply to assigned fighters.
Oberon Inc Website--------------Oberon Sales Page [IMG]http://www.oberongaming.com/sigs/thes2.jpg[/IM |
Illuminaty
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Posted - 2007.03.07 00:43:00 -
[24]
Originally by: darth solo
Originally by: Rockbox Wrong.
IF your using a carrier for small gang pvp, tank dosent matter as much tbh, only retards would primary a carrier, and if you whole gang dies and now your under attack, irregardless of your tanking abilitys your probably going to die with no backup...
this guy gets it.
carriers are fleet support, they are designed to assist the fleet.
While the nid is the worst looking carrier on paper it does give the most options of med slots to fit toys. it has a fairly decent tank.
if a carrier is held down it just a matter of time before it dies.
d solo.
I've got some questions for you then.
What mid slot modules do you consider to be most helpful?
Sensor boosters seem smart, to combat sensor damps and help with locking time.
Other than that, I'm really not sure what mods should be on the short list for fitting.
Is there anything worth fitting in a low besides tanking mods?
While a carrier that gets pinned down won't be able to tank an enemy gang forever, you can't fit capital plates, so a monsterous tank is the only why to get a buffer.
I'd think that the bigger your buffer, the better it would be as bait or surviving until your support comes backs in new ships for round two.
Or in the OPs case, the more time support would have to save him if he bounced off of a POS with little if any guns and got caught.
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madaluap
Gallente Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolence
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Posted - 2007.03.07 02:27:00 -
[25]
Edited by: madaluap on 07/03/2007 02:23:24 medslot?
1-2% faction sensorboost and rest cap rechargers 2
/edit: dont forget youre daily CCC _________________________________________________ Breetime
A killmail!11!1 omgrawr: BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA |
Murukan
Minmatar Chaos Reborn
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Posted - 2007.03.07 04:48:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Shania Eria Archon is upfront combat & support
Thanatos is hide in a pos and assign fighters
when you assign fighters and the carrier is not on grid as the fighters, no bonii apply. So the thanatos' bonuses won't apply if you assign from a pos
Manlove by Zaphod Jones
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Tunajuice
Convergent Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.03.07 04:58:00 -
[27]
Thanatos bonus apply to the fighters no matter where they are.
The amount of dis-information here is staggering.
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Benglada
Infinitus Odium
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Posted - 2007.03.07 06:51:00 -
[28]
I own a thanatos, id rather have an archon (other then the fact its but ugly, but id want the tank) ---------------------------
Originally by: Arkanor
0.0 is the Final Frontier. Bring money and friends.
Sig nerfz0r - maximum allowed siz0r is 24000 bytz0r. - Devil ([email protected]) Sig By Ortos |
mematar
Turbulent
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Posted - 2007.03.07 07:37:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Illuminaty The biggest pure Tech II tank without leadership mods I've been able to calculate for the Thanatos:
5,591 EM armor per second 3,588 Explosive armor per second 4,969 Kinetic armor per second 5,293 Thermal armor per second
What is this! I tank that much DPS with my Sleipnir O.o Didnt know Carriers were so fragile. You using dual rep?
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Felix Dzerzhinsky
Pirates of Destruction Union Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.07 07:55:00 -
[30]
While this may seem like a tough choise, I would seriously consider the Thanatos over the Archon. People say the Archon can tank more, but the reality of capital combat is you either have a relaxing time or you die. When a carrier dies, its not because its tank could not take the hits, its because it was a matter of time. . .So in the end, the Thanatos may be able to influence the situation whereas the Archon is not as effective at dealing the damage.
Also consider that you may want to train dreads on your character - in that case, its a choise between the Revelation and the Moros, but thats another can of worms.
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