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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 5 post(s) |
John E'Texan
EVE University Ivy League
4
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Posted - 2016.06.08 14:22:38 -
[1] - Quote
Looks like with the new OS requirements, I'm going to have to upgrade from my 7+ year old XP machine.
Could anyone post suggestions for a box - either pre-built or parts - that can run Eve well, but does not need to run any higher end games?
I'd like to keep the hardware price in the $600 range if possible. Thanks! |
Velarra
520
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Posted - 2016.06.08 14:26:49 -
[2] - Quote
Have you considered:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e8/Long_abacus.jpg
? |
John E'Texan
EVE University Ivy League
4
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Posted - 2016.06.08 14:28:03 -
[3] - Quote
Does it have HDMI output? |
Elenahina
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
893
|
Posted - 2016.06.08 14:43:03 -
[4] - Quote
John E'Texan wrote:Does it have HDMI output?
No, but the 3d processor is fabulous. Just like real life.
Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you.
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CCP Darwin
C C P C C P Alliance
2090
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Posted - 2016.06.08 14:59:45 -
[5] - Quote
I'd consider starting with our system requirements to understand what Eve needs:
https://support.eveonline.com/hc/en-us/articles/202748741-System-Requirements
Our minimum-spec systems provide reasonable performance with modest scene complexity, with all graphic settings turned all the way down. A recommended-spec system should be able to perform well in medium to large fleet engagements with most graphic options turned on.
Since you have a pretty aggressive price target, I asked a couple of our performance experts in the office how you might best go cheaper with your choices, and the consensus was that going for a cheaper CPU (a current i5, perhaps, or one of AMD's better modern options) and trying to invest as much as you can in GPU would leave you in the best spot for the future. Of graphics cards currently available, the Nvidia 750 or ATI R9 270 are similar in performance to the recommended 560.
Hope that helps. Good luck choosing your new system!
CCP Darwin GÇó Senior Technical Artist, EVE Online GÇó @mark_wilkins
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Velarra
521
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Posted - 2016.06.08 15:09:17 -
[6] - Quote
You might want to try some google & youtube searches - for build guides. While you may NOT want to actually build a computer yourself, they can be good, educational resources for understanding how to squeeze the most performance from limited resources when you have a shop do it for you.
In particular, - searches similar to: "500$ Computer build guide" or '20## Christmas Computer build guide for 500, 1000, 1500$' or similar types of searches can give you some ideas / things to look at.
Honestly it tends to be difficult to find a good all in one, pre-built computer at a reasonable price. 'Mind it can be done with a bit of luck and a keen eye. Asus is prone to configuring some decent, modestly priced machines. Yet even there, you need to be cautious. I mean, buying a type writer that will check email and 'surf' the web is easy, at a reasonable price. |
John E'Texan
EVE University Ivy League
4
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Posted - 2016.06.08 15:16:37 -
[7] - Quote
Thanks for the useful replies!
Any thoughts on this build:
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/q1-2016-system-builder-marathon-662-dollar-budget-pc,4523.html
with, perhaps, an upgrade from the i3 to an i5 processor? |
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CCP Darwin
C C P C C P Alliance
2092
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Posted - 2016.06.08 15:38:50 -
[8] - Quote
One thing to consider is that the i3-6100 is faster for single core processing (which is the case that best matches up with Eve) than the i5 series. I'd suggest considering putting that money into the GPU instead and put the money into a 960, or even a 970, if Eve if your primary use case for the system.
The i5, of course, being quad- rather than dual-core, would be a better choice if you're planning to do other work with the computer like video encoding that benefits from multithreaded processing.
(Thanks to CCP Saviour and CCP Sledgehammer for providing the benefit of their long hours in our test lab to help inform this advice.)
CCP Darwin GÇó Senior Technical Artist, EVE Online GÇó @mark_wilkins
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Hawke Frost
181
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Posted - 2016.06.08 15:59:55 -
[9] - Quote
- any not super terrible i5 processor - 8GB ram - any HDD - any GTX 950/960
You could go a little bit cheaper but you'd hurt performance by a lot, not that you need it right now but if the price difference isn't huge, and it won't be, you might as well get something that's actually decent. |
Velarra
522
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Posted - 2016.06.08 16:11:33 -
[10] - Quote
I'd also suggest the TI-88 or TI-89. Some real spiffy cutting edge hardware there :) The 89 even features a titanium build.. |
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Primary This Rifter
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
1181
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Posted - 2016.06.08 16:32:47 -
[11] - Quote
CCP Darwin wrote:One thing to consider is that the i3-6100 is faster for single core processing (which is the case that best matches up with Eve) than the i5 series. I'd suggest considering putting that money into the GPU instead and put the money into a 960, or even a 970, if Eve if your primary use case for the system.
The i5, of course, being quad- rather than dual-core, would be a better choice if you're planning to do other work with the computer like video encoding that benefits from multithreaded processing.
(Thanks to CCP Saviour and CCP Sledgehammer for providing the benefit of their long hours in our test lab to help inform this advice.)
Edit: Also, there are new generations of graphics cards coming available in the next month or so from AMD and Nvidia that may allow you to get more for less. I can't speak to their availability, and it might not be possible to have a system ready for June 30th that uses such a card. However, might be worth starting with a super-cheap alternative GPU (or even the GPU you already have) and swapping out for a new one in a month or two if you do the research and feel that's the way to go. Isn't the EVE client multithreaded though? I opened a client just now and it showed in Windows Task Manager as having ~60 open threads (fluctuating somewhat). And from the behavior of the game this seems to be true, otherwise interacting with the UI would freeze up other parts of the game. |
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CCP Darwin
C C P C C P Alliance
2092
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Posted - 2016.06.08 16:36:15 -
[12] - Quote
Primary This Rifter wrote:Isn't the EVE client multithreaded though? I opened a client just now and it showed in Windows Task Manager as having ~60 open threads (fluctuating somewhat). And from the behavior of the game this seems to be true, otherwise interacting with the UI would freeze up other parts of the game. The Eve client is certainly multithreaded. However, the bulk of the CPU usage of the client is in the Python interpreter, which is restricted to working on one thread at a time by Python's Global Interpreter Lock. Multithreading in Python speeds things up a great deal when many threads are waiting on I/O (such as rendering with the GPU or reading from or writing to disk or the network), but not so much when things are CPU-bound.
CCP Darwin GÇó Senior Technical Artist, EVE Online GÇó @mark_wilkins
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Primary This Rifter
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
1181
|
Posted - 2016.06.08 16:38:59 -
[13] - Quote
CCP Darwin wrote:Primary This Rifter wrote:Isn't the EVE client multithreaded though? I opened a client just now and it showed in Windows Task Manager as having ~60 open threads (fluctuating somewhat). And from the behavior of the game this seems to be true, otherwise interacting with the UI would freeze up other parts of the game. The Eve client is certainly multithreaded. However, the bulk of the CPU usage of the client is in the Python interpreter, which is restricted to one thread by Python's Global Interpreter Lock. Multithreading in Python speeds things up a great deal when many threads are waiting on I/O (such as rendering with the GPU or reading from or writing to disk or the network), but not so much when things are CPU-bound. Does the Python interpreter get one thread for each process that uses it, or one for all of them?
If it's the former (actually this was probably a dumb question) then more cores is still better for multiboxing. Be interesting to benchmark what effect hyperthreading has. |
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CCP Darwin
C C P C C P Alliance
2092
|
Posted - 2016.06.08 16:45:09 -
[14] - Quote
Python processes are completely independent of each other, so yes, if you're running multiple instances of the client, you might benefit from more cores depending on what you're doing with each client instance. (If one client is CPU-bound and the others are mostly idle, it won't help much.)
CCP Darwin GÇó Senior Technical Artist, EVE Online GÇó @mark_wilkins
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DaReaper
Net 7 Cannon.Fodder
2855
|
Posted - 2016.06.08 19:34:20 -
[15] - Quote
my current rig:
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/oculus-rift-virtual-reality-headset-asus-g11cd-b11-desktop-package/9999260600050006.p?id=pcmprd259000050006&skuId=9999260600050006
you can get it without the rift, it does everything i need it to do.
i realized i could not save much money and was too lazy to make it myself
OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!
Yes i am optimistic about eve.. i'm giving it till dec 31st 2016 before i doom n gloom
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bardghost Isu
Unity of Suns Warped Intentions
25
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Posted - 2016.06.08 21:12:10 -
[16] - Quote
OP, For what its worth it may be worth waiting a little while. The new polaris GPU's are around the corner (3-4 weeks) and look capable of offering some danm good power for $200. I'm not sure about CPU's but again the new AMD chips are coming in the next few months, So if you were to go for a current AMD cpu it'll be pretty danm obsolete within the next 6 months.
I don't know what the timeframe for xp discontinuation is off my head, But could I advise the devs to maybe look at holding it off until the next major Chip releases are done so people don't buy some almost obsolete stuff for similar prices to what the new stuff will probably release at.
There's No Kill Like Overkill !
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Geronimo McVain
McVain's Minning and Exploration Inc
80
|
Posted - 2016.06.09 08:27:59 -
[17] - Quote
bardghost Isu wrote:OP, For what its worth it may be worth waiting a little while. The new polaris GPU's are around the corner (3-4 weeks) and look capable of offering some danm good power for $200. I'm not sure about CPU's but again the new AMD chips are coming in the next few months, So if you were to go for a current AMD cpu it'll be pretty danm obsolete within the next 6 months.
I don't know what the timeframe for xp discontinuation is off my head, But could I advise the devs to maybe look at holding it off until the next major Chip releases are done so people don't buy some almost obsolete stuff for similar prices to what the new stuff will probably release at. If you need singlecore power there is nothing but Intel. I'm an AMD Fan but at the Moment Intel is the way to go. I'm with you about the Polaris GPU, near to the 980 and damm cheap for the power. It's the way that I will upgrade my computer. Intel some 200Gé¼ Cpu, Polaris GPU ~200Gé¼, Mainboard + Memory something about 150Gé¼. What is really worth the buck is an SSD. Not really for games but for overall performance: you click and the program is there. |
Geronimo McVain
McVain's Minning and Exploration Inc
80
|
Posted - 2016.06.09 08:53:42 -
[18] - Quote
CCP Darwin wrote:One thing to consider is that the i3-6100 is faster for single core processing (which is the case that best matches up with Eve) than the i5 series. I'd suggest considering putting that money into the GPU instead and put the money into a 960, or even a 970, if Eve if your primary use case for the system. Maybe put this in the requirements? Not only what is needed but what you should look for: more cores or more clock. On GPUs it's quite simple: more or better MORE power. But with CPU it's good to know which way to look. |
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CCP Darwin
C C P C C P Alliance
2097
|
Posted - 2016.06.09 10:45:41 -
[19] - Quote
Geronimo McVain wrote:Maybe put this in the requirements? Not only what is needed but what you should look for: more cores or more clock. On GPUs it's quite simple: more or better MORE power. But with CPU it's good to know which way to look. Choosing what components to look for in a new computer is a complicated process, and most of our customers don't buy their computers mainly for Eve, and even running Eve our players have very different use cases.
Our minimum and required specs are general guidelines that are intended to help players predict what to expect from Eve on a given system, running a single client. I'm not sure we could capture the complexity of the question you raise in those specs without severely overcomplicating them.
CCP Darwin GÇó Senior Technical Artist, EVE Online GÇó @mark_wilkins
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Roenok Baalnorn
Sadistically Sinister
96
|
Posted - 2016.06.09 11:44:36 -
[20] - Quote
I use to by prebuilt store PCs and i found them extremely lacking in performance unless you spend close to $900-$1000. The would barely run windows and another program, were often slow, and had a lot of things i didnt need on them while lacking things i did need.
So i started having HP custom build my PCs and have done so for the last 12 years. I ended up with better PCs to fit in my budget with features that were important to me and less extras i didnt care about. It also allowed me to maximize areas up to my max budget. For example If i had a $600 budget and was happy with the PC at $500, i could upgrade the processor and graphics card until i reached $600.
http://store.hp.com/us/en/mdp/towers-349501--1/pavilion-desktop-349512--1#!
I am not a fan of AMD processors. I personally found them to overheat easily and run terribly under a load. I havent used on in over a decade so the may not be as bad now. The i series from intel is a great line of processors. I run an older i7 and it runs awesomely even at 5 years old. I like nvidia for graphics but that more personal taste as i had a bad experience with an ATI card and never went back. |
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Shallanna Yassavi
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
220
|
Posted - 2016.06.09 12:12:30 -
[21] - Quote
Something with an AMD APU might be worth a look in a month or three. The next socket is due out about then. Probably you will be able to upgrade again when Zen is released, which will be a very significant step-without having to replace everything, though you probably will have to flash the BIOS. Intel CPUs are generally better if you want to add a separate graphics card, but for EVE, I'm not sure that's necessary.
Depending on what you have, just buying and installing a copy of Win7/8/10 might be an option. You said 7+ years old, so it might actually work. It might actually work well if you drop some more RAM in, so your current parts list might be worth looking at if all you do is EVE. Or install Linux, compile (32-bit!) Wine, and run the game that way.
With that said, I'm running on an AMD Phenom II hexacore at 3.2 GHz, and it runs pretty well. This: AMD 7860k. You could get the 95W parts, but they offer very little extra performance and are a lot hungrier. ASUS A88X-PRO. Crucial BX200 SSD (480GB) <- Boot and load time goes poof G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 2133 (Insert Windows Home OEM license here, or skip and use Linux) (Insert case with power supply here)
Should run the game very nicely. It has a little wiggle room for upgrades: you can add a GPU and/or memory later. If you do decide to run Wine, the AMD APU will enable you to use native DirectX 9.
A signature :o
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bardghost Isu
Unity of Suns Warped Intentions
25
|
Posted - 2016.06.09 21:52:33 -
[22] - Quote
Geronimo McVain wrote:bardghost Isu wrote:OP, For what its worth it may be worth waiting a little while. The new polaris GPU's are around the corner (3-4 weeks) and look capable of offering some danm good power for $200. I'm not sure about CPU's but again the new AMD chips are coming in the next few months, So if you were to go for a current AMD cpu it'll be pretty danm obsolete within the next 6 months.
I don't know what the timeframe for xp discontinuation is off my head, But could I advise the devs to maybe look at holding it off until the next major Chip releases are done so people don't buy some almost obsolete stuff for similar prices to what the new stuff will probably release at. If you need singlecore power there is nothing but Intel. I'm an AMD Fan but at the Moment Intel is the way to go. I'm with you about the Polaris GPU, near to the 980 and damm cheap for the power. It's the way that I will upgrade my computer. Intel some 200Gé¼ Cpu, Polaris GPU ~200Gé¼, Mainboard + Memory something about 150Gé¼. What is really worth the buck is an SSD. Not really for games but for overall performance: you click and the program is there.
Yeah intel is the way to go for singlecore, but I was just suggesting AMD as it's a fair bit cheaper and if the 40% higher IPC is true then it may be a good bang for buck chips they may get to a point similar to that of polaris, Cheap as hell whilst providing decent power.
There's No Kill Like Overkill !
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bardghost Isu
Unity of Suns Warped Intentions
25
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Posted - 2016.06.09 21:55:46 -
[23] - Quote
Shallanna Yassavi wrote:Something with an AMD APU might be worth a look in a month or three. The next socket is due out about then. Probably you will be able to upgrade again when Zen is released, which will be a very significant step-without having to replace everything, though you probably will have to flash the BIOS. Intel CPUs are generally better if you want to add a separate graphics card, but for EVE, I'm not sure that's necessary.
Depending on what you have, just buying and installing a copy of Win7/8/10 might be an option. You said 7+ years old, so it might actually work. It might actually work well if you drop some more RAM in, so your current parts list might be worth looking at if all you do is EVE. Or install Linux, compile (32-bit!) Wine, and run the game that way.
With that said, I'm running on an AMD Phenom II hexacore at 3.2 GHz, and it runs pretty well. This: AMD 7860k. You could get the 95W parts, but they offer very little extra performance and are a lot hungrier. ASUS A88X-PRO. Crucial BX200 SSD (480GB) <- Boot and load time goes poof G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 2133 (Insert Windows Home OEM license here, or skip and use Linux) (Insert case with power supply here)
Should run the game very nicely. It has a little wiggle room for upgrades: you can add a GPU and/or memory later. If you do decide to run Wine, the AMD APU will enable you to use native DirectX 9.
Good point, OP is there a chance we could get a current build list of your existing PC or was it just a out of the box bought from a store kind of thing.
There's No Kill Like Overkill !
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John E'Texan
EVE University Ivy League
6
|
Posted - 2016.06.10 02:44:13 -
[24] - Quote
Hey all, thanks for the really great advice given so far!
The computer I'm using is an HP Compaq dc7600 convertible, which I picked up from a place where I used to work.
It is running 2 Gb of RAM and an NVIDIA GeForce GT 240 card
http://www.nvidia.com/object/product_geforce_gt_240_us.html
The processor is a Pentium D and allegedly runs at 3.39 GHz
I was looking at going with the suggestion of putting in some more RAM and running Windows 10 on it, but according to the spec page:
http://h20564.www2.hp.com/hpsc/doc/public/display?docId=emr_na-c00374051
The maximum memory is 4 Gb of DDR2 Synch DRAM PC2-5300 (667 MHz) non-ECC memory
Although the webpage at Clarion suggests:
Quote:When using PC2-5300 parts the maximum memory is 2GB. When using PC2-4200 the maximum is 4GB.
http://www.crucial.com/usa/en/scanview/096F060A31D926C3
I don't know if this would be a problem - any thoughts? I did a quick browse on their website and it doesn't look like they stock PC2-4200 memory. The searches I've done on that seem to bring up laptop memory, which doesn't seem right.
This looks like it might be what I'm looking for: https://www.oempcworld.com/OEMPCworld-com/1_0G-PC2-4200E.html
I've also sent an email to Crucial asking about this.
From the Windows 10 specs, a 32 bit OS calls for minimum 2Gb whereas a 64 bit calls for 4Gb min.
I suppose I could run the 32 bit OS with the max 4Gb of RAM or would 64 bit be better?
The computer spec page also says this ships with a 365 W power supply. I'm sure the cheapest available NVIDIA card would run rings around the GT 240, but would it burden the power supply?
As always - all advice is appreciated. |
Shallanna Yassavi
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
221
|
Posted - 2016.06.10 06:01:27 -
[25] - Quote
I'd replace that. Anything modern is going to run circles around it. You have the fastest CPU that motherboard will take. The computer itself is somewhere around 13 (!!!) years old. It doesn't appear HP released a BIOS update to allow it to use the slightly newer Core (2) Duo/Quad.
If you haven't taken it outside with a can of compressed "air" (difluoroethane usually), it's probably choking on dust and not able to keep cool.
Windows 10 would probably run on it at usable speeds if it didn't enable full disk encryption. Pentium 4 doesn't have the instructions in hardware to do full disk encryption, so if that got enabled, anything disk-related (ex. booting or loading a program) would be insanely slow.
A totally new computer would be *way* faster. You might keep that one (offline!) to run programs which won't work in a newer version of Windows.
A signature :o
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Demolishar
United Aggression
1110
|
Posted - 2016.06.10 10:41:36 -
[26] - Quote
Buy a second hand gaming PC, it will be much cheaper. Format all drives, install OS and you're good to go. EVE does not really require a good PC - I was running 8 clients on a machine from 2008 [with low settings] recently. |
Celise Katelo
State War Academy Caldari State
190
|
Posted - 2016.06.10 17:07:27 -
[27] - Quote
Demolishar wrote:Buy a second hand gaming PC, it will be much cheaper. Format all drives, install OS and you're good to go. EVE does not really require a good PC - I was running 8 clients on a machine from 2008 [with low settings] recently.
Never ever buy a second hand PC or parts.....
Also never get a PC that is running a 32bit operating system - Since its so out of date it would be pointless.
I would keep on saving & get something like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1OQGAlVr28#t=22.683604
EVE online has amazing graphics when you have a semi decent system. I truly think its worth spending a little bit more.
EVEBoard ...Just over 40million skill points, each skill was chosen for a reason. I closed my eyes & clicked another skill to train... "BINGO...!!!" ... "This time i got something usefull"
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bardghost Isu
Unity of Suns Warped Intentions
25
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Posted - 2016.06.10 18:08:18 -
[28] - Quote
John E'Texan wrote:Hey all, thanks for the really great advice given so far! The computer I'm using is an HP Compaq dc7600 convertible, which I picked up from a place where I used to work. It is running 2 Gb of RAM and an NVIDIA GeForce GT 240 card http://www.nvidia.com/object/product_geforce_gt_240_us.html The processor is a Pentium D and allegedly runs at 3.39 GHz I was looking at going with the suggestion of putting in some more RAM and running Windows 10 on it, but according to the spec page: http://h20564.www2.hp.com/hpsc/doc/public/display?docId=emr_na-c00374051 The maximum memory is 4 Gb of DDR2 Synch DRAM PC2-5300 (667 MHz) non-ECC memory Although the webpage at Clarion suggests: Quote:When using PC2-5300 parts the maximum memory is 2GB. When using PC2-4200 the maximum is 4GB. http://www.crucial.com/usa/en/scanview/096F060A31D926C3 I don't know if this would be a problem - any thoughts? I did a quick browse on their website and it doesn't look like they stock PC2-4200 memory. The searches I've done on that seem to bring up laptop memory, which doesn't seem right. This looks like it might be what I'm looking for: https://www.oempcworld.com/OEMPCworld-com/1_0G-PC2-4200E.html I've also sent an email to Crucial asking about this. From the Windows 10 specs, a 32 bit OS calls for minimum 2Gb whereas a 64 bit calls for 4Gb min. I suppose I could run the 32 bit OS with the max 4Gb of RAM or would 64 bit be better? The computer spec page also says this ships with a 365 W power supply. I'm sure the cheapest available NVIDIA card would run rings around the GT 240, but would it burden the power supply? The NVIDIA selection tool seems to suggest these two models: GTX 750 Ti GTX 950 - which has been suggested above. As always - all advice is appreciated.
That's some dam old stuff. Just about 5 years younger than me.... Same sort of age as the game itself
As someone else said though anything semi-modern would circle that.
However I also think your rig proves a point, Only now is it getting obsolete for EvE and only because they are ending XP support.
If you are willing to build your own PC then have a look around and build up a list, I'm sure some people here are more than willing to give assistance, I can help a bit but not to much as I'm UK so prices will be different.
If your not keen on building your own (And I wasn't on my first then Ebay or Amazon would be a decent place to look (I'd probably go for the latter), Both have some pretty decent pre-built rigs on there that would be your price range and would easily run EvE.
There's No Kill Like Overkill !
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John E'Texan
EVE University Ivy League
7
|
Posted - 2016.06.10 18:38:44 -
[29] - Quote
Well, I'm convinced that a new rig is the way to go. Will start with a current low-ish end graphics card with an eye towards upgrading when the next round of cards come out. |
Demolishar
United Aggression
1110
|
Posted - 2016.06.10 18:42:19 -
[30] - Quote
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