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The Bigpuns
Touring New Eden Haven.
170
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Posted - 2016.05.25 16:58:12 -
[31] - Quote
SweetLips Shayiskhun wrote:Who's that, trip-trapping over my bridge?
And so you reveal yourself, troll. |
SweetLips Shayiskhun
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2016.05.25 17:00:32 -
[32] - Quote
The Bigpuns wrote:SweetLips Shayiskhun wrote:Who's that, trip-trapping over my bridge? And so you reveal yourself, troll.
That is not my words this will be sent in report for harassment and making false lies that I not say. |
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
12123
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Posted - 2016.05.25 17:40:59 -
[33] - Quote
SweetLips Shayiskhun wrote:The Bigpuns wrote:SweetLips Shayiskhun wrote:Who's that, trip-trapping over my bridge? And so you reveal yourself, troll. That is not my words this will be sent in report for harassment and making false lies that I not say.
Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .
Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .
Bumble's Space Log
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Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
5130
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Posted - 2016.05.25 22:05:44 -
[34] - Quote
Bumblefck wrote:Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi . This thread went off the rails rather abruptly...
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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ISD Fractal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
1179
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Posted - 2016.05.27 15:18:33 -
[35] - Quote
Let us do our best to stay on track and help the OP by answering the question he posed. I have removed some off topic and trolling remarks.
ISD Fractal
Lieutenant
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
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Kitty Bear
Harbingers of Chaos Inc Violence of Action.
1548
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Posted - 2016.05.27 19:56:31 -
[36] - Quote
If you want to maximise isk/hr (which I'm guessing you do from picking a specific LP Store to profit from) You'll need to blitz a lot, afaik the Machariel is still one of the better options for this You may want to consider a Marauder as well
FYI I've only ever used 4 ships to run L4 missions Ishkur, Ishtar, Gila & Tengu
ps if you stay with a T2 fit and don't use lots of expensive deadspace or faction modules then people who gank for profit will be less inclined to target you, it won't help you avoid the people who will gank you because you are there however
edit Blitzing & Burner Mission info --> https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=454677&find=unread |
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
5136
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Posted - 2016.05.27 20:56:05 -
[37] - Quote
ISD Fractal wrote:Let us do our best to stay on track and help the OP by answering the question he posed. I have removed some off topic and trolling remarks. Most of us have in fact been doing this, but since the third comment in one individual is trolling...
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Lathael
Liga der aussergewoehnlichen Tattergreise Evictus.
32
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Posted - 2016.05.28 23:13:58 -
[38] - Quote
I recommend the type you like most. Seriously you spend a lot of time in your ship so you should take one you like and enjoy to watch.
Beside that I choose lasers because you have no cost for ammo. Tech1 crystals never deplete. So you can min/max a bit more.
But that was my choice and need not to fit in yours.
On the long run you will end up with marauders which halfs your ammo costs regardless which type you choose. |
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
5136
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Posted - 2016.05.29 01:20:04 -
[39] - Quote
Lathael wrote:On the long run you will end up with marauders which halfs your ammo costs regardless which type you choose. Basically, yeah. It's not just the savings in ammo costs, but the ability to loot and salvage as you go since Marauders have significant cargo capacity. Even though they have less projected DPS than most Pirate hulls they have superior damage application. And even if you're not going to salvage, having a 48km tractor for mission objectives is definitely handy.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Roenok Baalnorn
Sadistically Sinister
66
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Posted - 2016.05.29 06:08:22 -
[40] - Quote
SweetLips Shayiskhun wrote:The Bigpuns wrote:Sweetlips, I'm going to act as though you aren't a troll for now... You CAN be ganked in hisec, and Hyperion is NOT the best mission running ship. It is NOT bullying to point out how wrong you are so that new players don't fall foul of following your advice... To make gank on high sec player who only play to pve is bullying and grief to player. This is crime in many country so you make bully you pay crime. [Hyperion, l4] Large Armor Repairer I Armor EM Hardener I Armor EM Hardener I Armor EM Hardener I Capacitor Power Relay I Magnetic Field Stabilizer I Magnetic Field Stabilizer I Large Micro Jump Drive 100MN Afterburner I Tracking Computer I, Optimal Range Script Tracking Computer I, Optimal Range Script Cap Recharger I 425mm Railgun I, Antimatter Charge L 425mm Railgun I, Antimatter Charge L 425mm Railgun I, Antimatter Charge L 425mm Railgun I, Antimatter Charge L 425mm Railgun I, Antimatter Charge L 425mm Railgun I, Antimatter Charge L Small Tractor Beam I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Ogre I x5 Hobgoblin I x5 Hobgoblin I x5
This is an obvious troll fit. There are so many things wrong with this fit, its astounding. You could get better dps and better tank out of a drake for 1/3 the cost of this fit ..and better range... and better application of DPS.
But to the OPs question:
The golem doesnt impress me. Rattlesnake has both better DPS and better tank at about 1/3 of the cost. You wont see golems running around null doing anoms and plexing but you will see a lot of snakes and there is a reason for that.
Regardless of which ship you choose just remember the more bling you have in highsec the more people with try to gank you. My snake fit ( for anoms and plexing) is all x type deadspace and faction where deadspace isnt available and the snake fitted ( including t2 rigs) only cost 300 mil more than a golem hull.
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Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
5136
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Posted - 2016.05.29 06:18:55 -
[41] - Quote
Roenok Baalnorn wrote:[quote=SweetLips Shayiskhun]The golem doesnt impress me. Rattlesnake has both better DPS and better tank at about 1/3 of the cost. You wont see golems running around null doing anoms and plexing but you will see a lot of snakes and there is a reason for that.
Regardless of which ship you choose just remember the more bling you have in highsec the more people with try to gank you. My snake fit ( for anoms and plexing) is all x type deadspace and faction where deadspace isnt available and the snake fitted ( including t2 rigs) only cost 300 mil more than a golem hull. EHP perhaps, but nothing can touch either a shield or armor tank on a Marauder. The reason you see a lot of Rattlesnakes in anoms is probably no different than why you see a lot of Nightmares in Incursions (best tool for the job). The Rattlesnake has great specs on paper but you need a lot of V skills or it won't peform better than most T1 battleships. My torp Golem can and does keep up with any Rattlesnake for mission grinding (not blitzing, as the Machariel is still king), and in terms of an "all-in-one" platform to grind, clear, blitz, salvage, etc. Marauders are the ticket.
At the end of the day fly what gets you excited to play. Just not a Hyperion...
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Roenok Baalnorn
Sadistically Sinister
66
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Posted - 2016.05.29 07:50:01 -
[42] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:Roenok Baalnorn wrote:[quote=SweetLips Shayiskhun]The golem doesnt impress me. Rattlesnake has both better DPS and better tank at about 1/3 of the cost. You wont see golems running around null doing anoms and plexing but you will see a lot of snakes and there is a reason for that.
Regardless of which ship you choose just remember the more bling you have in highsec the more people with try to gank you. My snake fit ( for anoms and plexing) is all x type deadspace and faction where deadspace isnt available and the snake fitted ( including t2 rigs) only cost 300 mil more than a golem hull. EHP perhaps, but nothing can touch either a shield or armor tank on a Marauder. The reason you see a lot of Rattlesnakes in anoms is probably no different than why you see a lot of Nightmares in Incursions (best tool for the job). The Rattlesnake has great specs on paper but you need a lot of V skills or it won't peform better than most T1 battleships. My torp Golem can and does keep up with any Rattlesnake for mission grinding (not blitzing, as the Machariel is still king), and in terms of an "all-in-one" platform to grind, clear, blitz, salvage, etc. Marauders are the ticket. At the end of the day fly what gets you excited to play. Just not a Hyperion...
I will agree that the rattlesnake is a heavy train with two races and two weapon systems, but to max to level v marauders require more SP. Which really only leave drones, which will be useful to train for any race( they just arent as pressing on other ships to max) I will definitely disagree on a golem being able to out tank a snake. My plexing snake, with just swapping a few mods can go from a 1200 dps rat spec tank to a 5000 dps rat spec tank.
Keeping the tanks about the same and using the same meta of mods, my snake puts out 320 more raw DPS( thats about 40% more ) when dealing unbonused damage types and 65%(525 dps) more with bonused damage types.
Lets apply this raw dps in game. Golem gets 50% to target painter effectiveness and 25% to explosion velocity. That is the argument for why the golem is better than the snake at applying dps. that difference. However, half of my snake DPS comes from heavy drones. T2 Ogres have better tracking than Light electron blasters. Ogres do not have an issue taking out small rats. The other factions drones have even better tracking .
Missiles. If you use cruise missiles you have a good reach, but the explosion velocity is still that of heavies. If you use torps, you have to get close but better explosion velocity and damage.
Since i am using heavies, my drones will actually tank quite a bit of aggro so i can free up a couple more slots either for missile guidance, more dps, or tracking.
End result, running missions, IF the golem is running torps and the snake is running cruise the golem might have a slight edge depending on the mission . If both run the same weapon type the snake wiill have a slight edge with unbonused damage and a significant edge with bonused damage.
The snake is superior to the golem at a third the cost, which is why we use it in null and not golems. They are inferior for ratting and plexing.
But as you said fly what you want, really it only matters if you are looking for max isk/hr. Otherwise any ship that will tank an L4 and kill BS will work. Personally if i was doing missions, i would probably have a pirate faction ship for each damage type and just keep switching ships depending on what faction i was shooting, because why not? It would make them less boring( at least to me) |
The Bigpuns
Touring New Eden Haven.
174
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Posted - 2016.05.29 19:57:01 -
[43] - Quote
I for one do prefer the rs to the golem, but I think you can't say it has a better (active) tank. Put the same modules on them and tell me what figures you get.
As far as dps goes... Rs does do better paper dps. Half in missiles and half in drones (roughly, depending on fit and skills).
Your missiles might not be hitting into primary resist holes (angels, blood raiders and sansha), and won't apply as well as the golems, and don't have as good range. Heavy drones - you can probably knock a third off their effective dps due to travel times. Sentries - you have to trade off dps with damage type or range.
Don't get me wrong, I love the rs. Neither ship needs more than a two slot shield tank, and both are better at different things or missions. But tank is not where it comes out ahead.
Also, I thought the reason rattles were used for plexes and ratting, when marauders aren't, is because a marauder is easier to scan down and catch? Could be wrong... |
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
5136
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Posted - 2016.05.29 21:58:49 -
[44] - Quote
The Bigpuns wrote:Your missiles might not be hitting into primary resist holes (angels, blood raiders and sansha), and won't apply as well as the golems, and don't have as good range. Heavy drones - you can probably knock a third off their effective dps due to travel times. Sentries - you have to trade off dps with damage type or range. That's a fair assessment.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Zyress
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
140
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Posted - 2016.05.30 19:33:08 -
[45] - Quote
I've been distracted playing other games for about a year but I've used a Macharial for quite a long time. I fit it with large T2 Arties , use quake ammo and keep my distance with a Republic fleet 100mn afterburner. I shield tank it with a faction shield boost amp and a faction Shield Booster and use the t2 hardners the mission calls for. My lowers are a T2 DC, a T2 RCU and a mix of T2 TE's and Gyrostabilizers. Rigs are T1 a large operational solidifier a large EM screen and a large Projectile burst aerator. It can push 580 m/s which at least a year ago would outrun anything in a mission short of an interceptor and with 5 hobs they aren't much of a problem. I have 5 hammerheads if I need the extra dps on cruiser + targets. It ain't cheap when I originally bought it I thought I may one day do incursions in it with a refit but the corp I was in never really got into them. Incursions would have made it an excellent investment but its more than paid for itself in lvl 4's. Are they still as profitable as ever? |
Adelie Magellanic
Republic University Minmatar Republic
2
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Posted - 2016.05.30 23:02:39 -
[46] - Quote
Hi there,
I'm in a similar position to the OP and starting to run L4 missions. I'm currently doing this in a Raven but I feel my fit is something of a crapshoot:
6x 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher
500MN MWD 3x Adaptive Invuln Field II 2x Large Shield Extender II 1x Target Painter I
2x BCU II 2x Missile Guidance System II 1x IFFA DCU
1x Anti EM Rig I 2x Core Field Extender I
My damage output is less than stellar and I'm really unconvinced about my tank as well. I've tried looking for fits elsewhere but most are either outdated or use a whole bunch of deadspace stuff I can't really afford. Can someone give me some better fits that are reasonably low skill and not too pricey? Would appreciate it. |
aldhura
Bartledannians The Ascendancy Protocol
44
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Posted - 2016.05.30 23:24:47 -
[47] - Quote
On my mobile, but google zaqq lvl4 raven, it works
Bartledannians Corporation is recruiting
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Malakye Appleton
Voynich Decoded
0
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Posted - 2016.05.31 03:56:39 -
[48] - Quote
The Rattlesnake is best if you plan to salvage your missions. Machariel is best for Blitzing.
Voynich Decoded - Honorable Merc Corp - Now Recruiting PVP Pilots
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Henry Plantgenet
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
76
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Posted - 2016.06.01 09:17:56 -
[49] - Quote
Rattlesnake/dominix for drones and laziness. Machariel with either autocannons/artilleries also works Bastion marauder always a safe bet. Micro jump drive adviseable for many ships.
Question is; how efficient/fast do you want to run level 4s, are you min/maxing (blitz for LP) or casually going for bounties? Are you willing to train for different ships to be able to fly multiple mission ships so you can use the best ship for the best missions? Also T1 crystals are a waste on efficiency because even though T2/faction (cheap faction crystals) are depletable their increase in efficiency via tracking or damage at certain ranges heavily outweighs their replacement cost. |
Gimme more Cynos
Du nervst geh sterben
150
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Posted - 2016.06.02 22:29:24 -
[50] - Quote
Adelie Magellanic wrote:Hi there,
I'm in a similar position to the OP and starting to run L4 missions. I'm currently doing this in a Raven but I feel my fit is something of a crapshoot:
6x 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher
500MN MWD 3x Adaptive Invuln Field II 2x Large Shield Extender II 1x Target Painter I
2x BCU II 2x Missile Guidance System II 1x IFFA DCU
1x Anti EM Rig I 2x Core Field Extender I
My damage output is less than stellar and I'm really unconvinced about my tank as well. I've tried looking for fits elsewhere but most are either outdated or use a whole bunch of deadspace stuff I can't really afford. Can someone give me some better fits that are reasonably low skill and not too pricey? Would appreciate it.
No wonder that you can't tank or DPS..
Try something along these lines:
2x Rigor Rig 1x Flare Rig
6x CM launcher
1x X-Large Shield booster 1x Heavy capacitor booster (800er charges) 2x mission specific hardners or Invulnerability fields (mission specific recommended) 2x missile guidance computer (precision scripts) 1x Target Painter
3x Ballistic control System 1x Co-Processor
Have not EFTed that fit, but I remember that CPU was tight on newbie-ravens, hence the Co-Pro. If you struggle with the tank => try switching one missile guidance computer for an invulnerability field or another mission specific one.
Should give you plenty of tank whilst maintaining good application. |
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Echo Mande
70
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Posted - 2016.06.06 14:04:39 -
[51] - Quote
Adelie Magellanic wrote:Hi there,
I'm in a similar position to the OP and starting to run L4 missions. I'm currently doing this in a Raven but I feel my fit is something of a crapshoot:
6x 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher
500MN MWD 3x Adaptive Invuln Field II 2x Large Shield Extender II 1x Target Painter I
2x BCU II 2x Missile Guidance System II 1x IFFA DCU
1x Anti EM Rig I 2x Core Field Extender I
My damage output is less than stellar and I'm really unconvinced about my tank as well. I've tried looking for fits elsewhere but most are either outdated or use a whole bunch of deadspace stuff I can't really afford. Can someone give me some better fits that are reasonably low skill and not too pricey? Would appreciate it. This fit has issues but should be useable in certain situations. As a mission fit I would replace the MWD with an afterburner, maybe replace one invuln with a racial hardener, upgrade the DCU and replace one MGS with a third BCU.
Where this fit might fit in is in fleet PVP, maybe incursions and probably group missioning. With group missioning I mean a small group of toons flying shield buffer tank ships like this (or even BCs like drakes*, Feroxen and shield Cyclones and Hurricanes) accompanied by 2-3 Ospreys or Scythes to keep everybody repped. If you were going with armortanked ships like Apocs, Megas or armor Tempests or Maelstroms you would take Augorors or Exeqorors with you. Group missioning is a giggle but should teach you all about remote rep and logistics.
*) Yes, I know that drakes can tank adequately on their own. In this case they would sacrifice 2-3 tank midslots for an AB and target painter and/or missile guidance comp, leaving the lows for BCUs and maybe a DC. More speed and DPS, less waiting.
Gimme more Cynos wrote: No wonder that you can't tank or DPS..
Try something along these lines:
2x Rigor Rig 1x Flare Rig
6x CM launcher
1x X-Large Shield booster 1x Heavy capacitor booster (800er charges) 2x mission specific hardners or Invulnerability fields (mission specific recommended) 2x missile guidance computer (precision scripts) 1x Target Painter
3x Ballistic control System 1x Co-Processor
Have not EFTed that fit, but I remember that CPU was tight on newbie-ravens, hence the Co-Pro. If you struggle with the tank => try switching one missile guidance computer for an invulnerability field or another mission specific one.
Should give you plenty of tank whilst maintaining good application.
and don't let anyone tell you you need to be cap stable for any level 4 mission or you need to have a bunch of cap flux coils, power relays or CCC rigs. Use the Cap booster, even if the charges cost a bit. Your faster completition times will make up for the cost of those charges.
If you want to transition into a Golem, reduce tank and fit more damage.
This looks like Liang Nuren's Navy Raven fit and I agree that it works well. As said, pulse your shield booster and cap booster only as needed.
Wallet remarks everywhere
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