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When 0 km Autopilot ???

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Author	Topic
Lusulpher Raddick Explorations Friend or Enemy	Posted - 2008.05.06 04:17:00 - [211] Originally by: Bellum Eternus Originally by: Tom Deal Is this the time of space travel traveling? Cloning? Brain augmentation? Why autopilots still warping within 15 kms? Is 0 km Autopilot technology arriving soon or what? Something does not fit TD Never. Ever. Autopilot to 10km is needed, that should give gankers a chance at grabbing stupid folk, if they come with some dps/webbers... Autopilot needs updating anyway, I see "add waypoint" option but I can't add Planets/Moons and station docking to my AP routes(from Show Info window)...tsk tsk CCP. Raising my hopes. Live and Let Die...All of it...null
Captain Moiraine	Posted - 2008.05.06 10:14:00 - [212] Haha you wish, where is the danger of lowsec space if you can be afk whilst hopping around.
Schani Kratnorr x13	Posted - 2008.05.06 11:45:00 - [213] Having been around since the beginning my word is the LAW! Anywho. first there was no autopilot, no long warps, no "highways", no smuggler gates, and no people... anywhere. People started making bookmarks. One or more for each gate, allowing them to warp to a point just behind the gate, to end up right on top if it. These bookmarks became known as insta-jump-bookmarks, or just "instas". In the language of the new "sub class" of capsuleers: Having instas = win Not having instas = fail Only problem was that you needed thousands of bookmarks which took forever to copy, and (I heard) put undue pressure on the server hamsters. On one hand CCP wanted space to be enjoyable. They wanted EVE large and majestic, with pilots slowly moving towards their destinations. Visibly this notion of EVE was appealing, but people found a way around it. On one hand CCP wanted the instas gone. Partly due to database load and performance, partly because they quickly became a "must have" anyway. CCP decided to allow warp to at 0 km. and removed all instas from all characters (well almost). Here's an in-game, roleplay, fiction-based reason why you cannot warp to at 0 using your autopilot. When not focused or concentrating, the autopilot takes over basic navigation. To ensure the safety of the crew all warp-ins are conducted at between ten and fifteen kilometers. Without a pilot at the helm, it would be far far too easy for a navigation computer to get too close to an object with it's warp-bubble still instact. This could cause a breach or even an outright collision. Some capsuleers have argued that more R&D needs to be put into "getting a warp to at 0" autopilot, but despite billion-ISK investments, no company have yet to release a viable mainstream product for general consumption.
Xiu Dan Gallente Caritas.	Posted - 2008.05.06 13:29:00 - [214] Autopilot warp to 0!?! Kids these days are never satisfied. They finally get a warp to 0 button and now they want it to be 100% automated. Soon they will complain that warps take too long, their ships are too slow and they'll be wondering why they aren't moving fast in their hauler. Before you know it, they'll be spamming these forums for a warp to negative 15 km.
Hesod Adee Xen Of Onslaught	Posted - 2008.05.07 09:39:00 - [215] Originally by: Xiu Dan Autopilot warp to 0!?! Kids these days are never satisfied. They finally get a warp to 0 button and now they want it to be 100% automated. Soon they will complain that warps take too long, their ships are too slow and they'll be wondering why they aren't moving fast in their hauler. Before you know it, they'll be spamming these forums for a warp to negative 15 km. So your only objection to WTZ AP is that, if it gets implemented, people will be wanting other changes later on ? I don't know about other people, but I won't be asking for travel times any quicker than WTZ. I only want the WTZ AP because current travel is so boring. Why not just implement WTZ AP then argue against the other changes then ? Also a warp to -x km could be an interesting tactical move. Not much use for travel though. Originally by: Schani Kratnorr Here's an in-game, roleplay, fiction-based reason why you cannot warp to at 0 using your autopilot. When not focused or concentrating, the autopilot takes over basic navigation. To ensure the safety of the crew all warp-ins are conducted at between ten and fifteen kilometers. Without a pilot at the helm, it would be far far too easy for a navigation computer to get too close to an object with it's warp-bubble still instact. This could cause a breach or even an outright collision. Some capsuleers have argued that more R&D needs to be put into "getting a warp to at 0" autopilot, but despite billion-ISK investments, no company have yet to release a viable mainstream product for general consumption. I see your yet another person who assumes that the human pilot is somehow more competent at FTL navigation that the navicomputer without attempting to justify it at all. I snipped your history of the Eve travel options because it doesn't explain why they gave us WTZ when removing instas.
Norjia Blacksteel Blacksteel Mining and Manufacturing Apoapsis Multiversal Consortium	Posted - 2008.06.02 15:55:00 - [216] Nah, there needs to be a penalty for AFK travel. ---- Norjia Blacksteel CEO Blacksteel Mining and Manufacturing
procurement specialist	Posted - 2008.06.02 16:06:00 - [217] watch gate at 0. scan haulers. jump through. get hauler on other side. I don't see how it is harder with autopilot warp to 0 instead of someone sitting there and making it warp to 0 manually. they still can't activate modules or do anything else once scrambled. i don't see how it others the good pirates at all lol.
Patri Andari	Posted - 2008.06.02 16:25:00 - [218] With all the recent complaints I have seen about the use of the cloak/warp tactic I would think gankers would lend support to AP WTZ. The people that use this feature will be at least semi AFK. They are more likely to become complacent and will less likely use tactics like cloak/warp or scouting. More AFK pilots = moar ganks Patri
Lyseas Gallente	Posted - 2008.08.04 19:06:00 - [219] OK, I understand the reasons for the autopilot thing to 10km, but my biggest problem is that this makes no sense. In a role-playing game, you are playing a character that could exist in the universe described. The corollary is that the universe must support the characters playing in it. As there are merchants, and merchants like to make money, some enterprising young nobody would eventually "invent" a program for their navigational system that would allow an autopilot to warp directly to a gate. It's that simple. There is no way you can tell me that my characters live in a society where travel between star systems takes minutes as opposed to years, and nobody in this universe has a navigational computer capable of autopiloting to jump distance. That's not realistic at all. Likewise, there are many annoying things that should be automatic, that aren't. If I was a "capsuleer" with access to all this high-tech equipment, I'd be seriously PO'd that the software did not support my uber cool hardware. My suggestion is to make the navigational computer upgradeable, either via skill set or as a low component on the ship. Make it expensive, but worth it to travelers who regularly go through low-sec systems. If you're looking for lawlessness balance, create new skills/ equipment (also expensive) that disrupt warp bubbles within a limited range to let the pirate have a shot at them. As tech improves, new ways to evade pirates should exist, as well as new ways for pirates to still make a buck. Yeah, I'm a noob. What about it?
Syberbolt8 Gallente Gen Tec	Posted - 2008.08.04 19:58:00 - [220] Originally by: Taedrin Warp-to-0, instas, and you... And this brings us to today... Lol, I have seen this very story at least 5 times now over the past year or 2, what did you save this in text doc "call cookie cutter answers for noobs that post the same thing 4billion times"? Still a very nice story, and true.

Re'taka Minmatar Republic University	Posted - 2008.08.04 20:03:00 - [221] Originally by: Lyseas OK, I understand the reasons for the autopilot thing to 10km, but my biggest problem is that this makes no sense. In a role-playing game, you are playing a character that could exist in the universe described. The corollary is that the universe must support the characters playing in it. As there are merchants, and merchants like to make money, some enterprising young nobody would eventually "invent" a program for their navigational system that would allow an autopilot to warp directly to a gate. It's that simple. There is no way you can tell me that my characters live in a society where travel between star systems takes minutes as opposed to years, and nobody in this universe has a navigational computer capable of autopiloting to jump distance. That's not realistic at all. Likewise, there are many annoying things that should be automatic, that aren't. If I was a "capsuleer" with access to all this high-tech equipment, I'd be seriously PO'd that the software did not support my uber cool hardware. My suggestion is to make the navigational computer upgradeable, either via skill set or as a low component on the ship. Make it expensive, but worth it to travelers who regularly go through low-sec systems. If you're looking for lawlessness balance, create new skills/ equipment (also expensive) that disrupt warp bubbles within a limited range to let the pirate have a shot at them. As tech improves, new ways to evade pirates should exist, as well as new ways for pirates to still make a buck. I agree you are a noob, like it or not this is a game, and balance matters more then rp, even if this is an rpg. Keeping that in mind, manual piloting you can land ontop of a gate because you yourself control the ship and can react and correct the ships course to the gate, autopilot lands you at 15km to make sure it doesn't hit, the gate or ships, etc, there is your cheap RP reason. Don't like it, well sry, thats just tuff, you will have to live with it.
BlondieBC Minmatar 7th Tribal Legion	Posted - 2008.08.04 20:25:00 - [222] Hopefully never, makes macro too easy. I would like to see the warp in point for autopilot moved to 25 km from gate.
Re'taka Minmatar Republic University	Posted - 2008.08.04 20:48:00 - [223] Originally by: BlondieBC Hopefully never, makes macro too easy. I would like to see the warp in point for autopilot moved to 25 km from gate. Have you suicided your hualer today? This would make it much easier, though I'm not 100% vs that
Wendat Huron Stellar Solutions	Posted - 2008.08.05 03:15:00 - [224] Never. These forums are FUBAR, upgrade this decade!
Cyberman Mastermind	Posted - 2008.08.05 07:52:00 - [225] Originally by: BlondieBC Hopefully never, makes macro too easy. How so? A macro doesn't care about the autopilot, it doesn't need it, it is already using the same methods that players do.
Praleon Gallente Eve Liberation Force Liberty.	Posted - 2008.08.08 19:44:00 - [226] Just so everyone knows, there are auto-warp-to-zero solutions out there. I am relatively certain that they violate the EULA, so, I wouldn't recommend even looking for one. I'd say CCP is watching but macro-miners use the exact same programs... I'm a programmer, so, I know how it works... you get a macro software for controlling your mouse and keyboard, and simply record what you do in a process (macro-mining) or auto-warp-to-zero is probably using something to look for a yellow stargate in your overview and click on it... It would be highly simple to do for me, and admittedly it is very, very tempting, but, I do not. The reason I mention it here is because as the game stands now, without Auto-Warp to Zero, the game is right back in the same place it was before the addition of warp to zero... Instead of people with bookmark collections, now you have people with macro programs... and while the database side is cleaned up, from a player's standpoint, not having auto-warp to zero is detrimental... Would it be against the rules for me to create a step-by-step of how to create your own macros and sell them for ISK? ;) I'm just saying... people probably do that too... actually, let me check e-bay... A quick search of "EVE Macro" shows you a bunch of people selling mining bots, sometimes complete with warp to zero thrown in for free. So, this stuff isn't uncommon. My actual opinion of AWTZ? AWTZ should be enabled in high sec at the very least. The fact that 95% of the PVP in this game is gatecamp 9 vs. 1 is ******ed anyway, give players better ways to engage one another, and then, do away with the silly gate-camp crap, is what i say, and then Auto WTZ becomes moot. Praleon CEO Judgement Klan Corporation
Freezehunter Gallente Black Knight Squadron OWN Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.08 20:57:00 - [227] Originally by: Taedrin Warp-to-0, instas, and you... There once was a time when there was no warp-to-0. This was a horrible time where people were forced to warp within 15 kilometers of a gate and fly within 2.5km of the gate before jumping and to start the process anew. This was the dark ages of pirates, where pilots were actually vulnerable when travelling. Pilots were unjustly forced to use higher-brain functions by looking at the map and plotting a safe course around potential gate camps. Pilots who lacked such higher-brain functions were left to die miserably to the gate camps. One day, such a pilot suddenly had a stroke of uncharacteristic genius! In his frequently travelled systems, he could create bookmarks approximately 12-15km from the gate such that when he warped from one gate to the bookmark, he would land directly on top of it! Thus instas, and the great bookmark revolution began. Everyone began creating instas for their favorite systems. It was soon discovered that as the number of gates increased in a system, the number of instas that you need to complete the "set", so to speak, grew exponentially. Soon, an entire market sprang up out of nowhere, based upon the sale of large areas of instas! This is when the glorious instas showed their dark side. With so many millions upon millions of instas in existence they slowly gave birth to a demon of pure lag. Tales are told of pilots who accidentally opened their people and places window and were forced to wait an eternity as the instas finished loading. Meanwhile, people continued to use instas, and they became a integral part of EVE. Entire alliances kept sets of bookmarks for the regions of space they occupied. Escrow was filled with advertisements selling thousands upon thousands of bookmarks. Pirates and carebears a like would not be caught anywhere near low sec or 0.0 without a full set of instas. As the problems continued, TQ slowly grinded to a halt. It was then that CCP decided that something must be done! They asked players for ideas. It was then that 4 mighty factions on the Features and Ideas forum formed. The WTZ faction, the Nuke Instas faction, the Starmaps faction, and the corporate bookmarks faction. Each faction waged bitter forum war against each other, deciding that their solution to the insta problem was correct. In general, the pirates favored the Nuke Instas option, while carebears favored the WTZ option. Those in the middle favored Starmaps or corporate bookmarks. After a long bloody war that left no soul unscathed, CCP decided that instas had become too important to remove. On top of this, Starmaps and corporate bookmarks would require too much code, and/or would not yield enough decrease in lag (though I still of the fervant opinion that Starmaps would've been much cooler, and still to this day disagree with Maya on this point). It was then that Warp To 0km was championed by CCP. A great treaty was signed by all of the forum warriors that Warp To 0km on Autopilot was a pandoras box that if opened, would end all concepts of danger from low sec and 0.0. Thus CCP did not allow Autopilot to utilize WTZ. Thus as CCP introduced WTZ, The Great Bookmark Massacre began, as millions upon millions of instas were mercilessly slaughtered. And this brings us to today... This is the most intelligent post i have seen in a freakin' million years... Gratz for being smart, man!
Destructor1792 Minmatar Malicious Intentions Un-Natural Selection	Posted - 2008.08.08 22:36:00 - [228] 0km autopilot?? WTF??? IMO the worst move they ever did was bring in warp to zero as that really helped reduced the lag by removing the need for so many bm's Oh wait, it didnt I sugget that the AP range be increased from 15km to 30km for all the lazy gits out there ______________________________________ *Bringing The Fun Back* I Have No Fear, Fear is for the weak.
Grarr Dexx Amarr Avenging United	Posted - 2008.08.08 22:54:00 - [229] Quote: So your only objection to WTZ AP is that, if it gets implemented, people will be wanting other changes later on ? I don't know about other people, but I won't be asking for travel times any quicker than WTZ. I only want the WTZ AP because current travel is so boring. Why not just implement WTZ AP then argue against the other changes then ? Also a warp to -x km could be an interesting tactical move. Not much use for travel though. You don't seem to get it. Give people a finger, they take your hand. Give them your hand, they take your arm. And so on and so on. This is also why I'm heavily against a skill queue, because it will do eve no good now, and in the future.
Taram Caldar Noir. Trinity Nova Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.08 23:30:00 - [230] NO good god people if you want to AFK travel faster then fit overdrives in your lows and deal. If you want to travel FASTER then sit at the damn PC and do it yourself. Lazy people scare me. .

Jerid Verges	Posted - 2008.08.09 00:29:00 - [231] My only problem with warp to 15km is becuase it takes friken forever for big ships like industrials to close 15km going their speed. That and any speed modules you have deactivate after every warp. The distance should at least be lessened. If only a bit.
Danton Marcellus Nebula Rasa Holdings	Posted - 2008.08.09 01:08:00 - [232] Play the game! WTZ was implemented to replace an active practise of bookmarking routes, operative word being active. Sometimes ideas in here sound like nothing more than creative trolling. Should/would/could have, HAVE you chav! Also Known As
Hesod Adee Militants of Xen	Posted - 2008.08.09 01:47:00 - [233] Edited by: Hesod Adee on 09/08/2008 01:46:56 Originally by: Grarr Dexx Quote: So your only objection to WTZ AP is that, if it gets implemented, people will be wanting other changes later on ? I don't know about other people, but I won't be asking for travel times any quicker than WTZ. I only want the WTZ AP because current travel is so boring. Why not just implement WTZ AP then argue against the other changes then ? Also a warp to -x km could be an interesting tactical move. Not much use for travel though. You don't seem to get it. Give people a finger, they take your hand. Give them your hand, they take your arm. And so on and so on. This is also why I'm heavily against a skill queue, because it will do eve no good now, and in the future. The slippery slope fallacy does not make a good argument.
Straight Chillen Gallente Solar Wind Ministry Of Amarrian Secret Service	Posted - 2008.08.09 04:56:00 - [234] the answer to your problem is actually playing the game. Pay attention, and warp to zero you lazy bastard
Praleon Gallente Eve Liberation Force Liberty.	Posted - 2008.08.09 08:02:00 - [235] By the way, the "PLay the game" and "warp to zero is for lazy people" line of ******-thought are old and inaccurate. The people who ask for these changes are likely people that have friends or obligations in multiple regions, which is no sin at all. Other people include haulers and other legitimate players who earn SLOW MONEY by carrying goods from point A to point B. Your mission runners, AKA, Free High Sec Money Kids, don't want WTZ because it won't help them any. Your cheaters, AKA, macro-miners et al, ALREADY HAVE AUTOPILOT WARP TO ZERO. Your 0.0 guys, AKA, Guys who get to have fun in PVP all the time because they are at an advanced part of the game, don't want warp to zero on autopilot because it makes gatecamping 3% less profitable since they can't auto-kill autopiloters anymore. Point 1) Stop calling people lazy because you are afraid that you won't get a free kill against their autopiloted ship, that's lazy and equally cowardly too, not to mention hypocritical. Point 2) If you want to play the "travel" part of this game so bad, why don't you just not use autopilot warp to zero if they implement it? Just because you really enjoy sitting and watching "Warp Drive Active" 15 times per day over the course of an hour doesn't mean everyone enjoys such a boring gameplay style. Point 3) The entire purpose of ANY CHANGE LIKE THIS is to enhance the amount of FUN TIME that can be spent in EVE and reduce the amount of BORING WORK in EVE. If you ever wonder why so many people play and quit this game, it's because there's an awful lot of boring work you have to do in order to get access to the fun stuff. Minor cutbacks to that boring part (warping through hi-sec for a couple hours a day) allow people to get at the fun part more readily (trade 1 hour of those 2 hours of travel directly for PVP). This means more ships and modules blown up, more market activity, more PVP, and more fun for everyone from the lowly miner to the powerhouse market guy all the way out to the 0.0 guy. Think of the positive cascade effects of changes that liven up the game, rather than being resistant to change to a fault, eh? Praleon CEO Judgement Klan Corporation
Sweet Rosella	Posted - 2008.08.09 08:45:00 - [236] Edited by: Sweet Rosella on 09/08/2008 08:53:23 Bring back warp to 15 and disallow bookmarks upto 100k from gates. Job done and we can all pewpew
Nareg Maxence Gallente Federal Defence Union	Posted - 2008.08.09 13:39:00 - [237] Originally by: Sweet Rosella Bring back warp to 15 and disallow bookmarks upto 100k from gates. Job done and we can all pewpew You are not really thinking it through. If it was done as you suggest, people would make bookmarks 100km behind the gate and use warp to 100km to land right on the gate. You are essentially suggesting we bring back the old system, which was scrapped for well known reasons.
TharOkha	Posted - 2008.08.09 15:29:00 - [238] Originally by: Tom Deal Is this the time of space travel traveling? Cloning? Brain augmentation? Why autopilots still warping within 15 kms? Is 0 km Autopilot technology arriving soon or what? Something does not fit TD well i am for it, but give to it some balance.. in hisec warp-to-0km should work. but if you passing losec and null, it should be still w-t-15km.
soldieroffortune 258 Gallente Federal Defence Union	Posted - 2008.08.09 15:45:00 - [239] Originally by: Frug Yes. What is the roleplaying reason for this? I think I understand the gameplay balance reason, but not really. It makes low sec less safe I guess. But... But why? Pirate: YAR so's I kin gank ye when yer stupid enough ta be APin' around in me 0.0 system. YAR! Me: Fine I will sit and click a button. the roleplaying reason could be that since your computer is Ap'ing your ship, it has safety protocols in place, and if you warped to 0m, you might hit the gate and die, so they drop you 15km from the gate to prevent collisions secondly to respond to the OP's post HELL NO, if people could warp to 0, everyone would be AP'ing everywhere pretty much without fear of hitting a normal gate camp, would make the game WAAAY to easy as said already, if you want the benefit of getting through a gate camp alive, do it manually
strasny spion	Posted - 2008.08.09 15:59:00 - [240] Originally by: TharOkha Originally by: Tom Deal Is this the time of space travel traveling? Cloning? Brain augmentation? Why autopilots still warping within 15 kms? Is 0 km Autopilot technology arriving soon or what? Something does not fit TD well i am for it, but give to it some balance.. in hisec warp-to-0km should work. but if you passing losec and null, it should be still w-t-15km. sounds like a good idea

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