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jamesw
Omniscient Order
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Posted - 2007.02.12 05:22:00 -
[1]
I've been piloting both these ships quite a bit lately, and I have to say I have am leaning towards the Myrmidon as my preferred ship out of the two. As a combat ship, it just seems to do the same job better (which makes me cry little Eos shaped emo tears).
I dont have a particularly huge problem with this, as the Eos is supposed to be a command ship - running warfare link modules for its gangs and all that jazz. At the same time, it seems sad that the tech 2 drone boat gets outperformed by the tech 1. I would like to see the Eos (for all the extra training it takes to get one) be the better drone boat from the two.
The Eos does get a few things in its favour - being: - 2 waves of heavy drones instead of 1. - Damage bonus to blasters (5% per level). - Better base resists (uber kinetic resist).
The difference in damage from drones can be reduced by fitting lots of blasters on the Eos, however in my opinion a balanced pvp setup (on both ships) would have a few nos on it to assist its tanking.
The Eos has one less low than the Myrmi, which means the Myrmi can make up some of the difference in resistances by fitting an extra hardener. The net result of this is that in tanking, the Myrmidon is about the same (except for the Eos uber tanking kinetic, which you can't really rely on unless you are npc'ing)
I would like to switch the Eos' 5% blaster damage bonus to a 10% hp and damage drone bonus, like the other Gallente drone carriers.
Any thoughts? --
Latest Vid: Domination! |
ForeverKnight
Caldari World Order
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Posted - 2007.02.12 05:26:00 -
[2]
And maybe change the hull over to a myrmidon too =D
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hydraSlav
Synergy Evolved Serenity Fallen
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Posted - 2007.02.12 06:10:00 -
[3]
I agree
All Gallente drone carriers should get the drone bonus like other ships, that includes the Ishkur
== Above comments are my personal views Oveur >Local shouldn't be a tactical tool, it's for chat
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mematar
Delictum 23216
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Posted - 2007.02.12 06:17:00 -
[4]
/Signed, even though I dont fly the Myrmidon myself a lot but I think Eos should get the drone damage bonus.
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MrDisposable
Caldari Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2007.02.12 06:19:00 -
[5]
Reduce the amount of turrets aswell and gimp the PG a little and you have a deal. This thing should fit gang-links in its highslots so lets make it look like it. ______________ BoB Alt
"This isn't about Dev misconduct.... ban the Ctrl+q'rs! They are the real problem behind it ALL!!!!!" |
X99 Z990
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Posted - 2007.02.12 06:34:00 -
[6]
Yea definately, they should change the EOS to be in line with the other fleet command ships!
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Humpalot
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Posted - 2007.02.12 06:44:00 -
[7]
All the Command Ships are rather nice...even the Amarr one (Absolution...Damnation stinks). But the Eos stands well past all the rest and you want it to be better still?
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jamesw
Omniscient Order
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Posted - 2007.02.12 07:52:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Humpalot All the Command Ships are rather nice...even the Amarr one (Absolution...Damnation stinks). But the Eos stands well past all the rest and you want it to be better still?
If the Eos stands above the other command ships, then what does that statement say about the Myrmidon!!?
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Latest Vid: Domination! |
Nooey
Omerta Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.02.12 08:12:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Nooey on 12/02/2007 08:09:18 Yeah, maybe it's outperformed by the Myrmidon in one area, maybe more.
Point remains though, it delivers 3 very, very good gang bonuses to a gang by default. The difference between your average ECM supported gang, and one being supported by InfoWar links is vast.
That's something that needs to be factored heavily into any discussion about how it rates to the Myrmidon, it's a big issue and I feel you brushed it to the side somewhat here, focusing instead on just pure DPS/Tank/Combat Stats and other things this forum seems a bit obsessed with.
To deliver something close to what the Eos does in terms of gang bonuses, the Myrmidon not only needs Warfare Link Spec V (~30d skill) for the Command Proc's to fit +2 Links, but needs 2 slots taken up for them as well, and even then it's still not pumping out the same level of gang bonus due to it lacking the Fleet Command bonus.
Bigger picture people, bigger picture.
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X99 Z990
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Posted - 2007.02.12 08:14:00 -
[10]
Eos is a fleet command ship count yourself lucky that its as good as it is, its a great great ship.
Bigger tank than a myrmidon and more damage with blasters.
Look at the other tier 2 battlecruisers vs the fleet command ships.
Drake > Vulture Harbinger > Damnation Hurricane > Claymore
They all stand better in combat situations than the fleet command ships.
Do you have any idea how utterly powerful the eos would be if they gave it 10% drone damage bonus?
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Pralay
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.02.12 08:22:00 -
[11]
Originally by: jamesw
If the Eos stands above the other command ships, then what does that statement say about the Myrmidon!!?
That you should of trained Gallente :) Pralay |
Tiuwaz
Minmatar The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.02.12 08:53:00 -
[12]
its the myrmidon that needs to get hit with nerfbat >_> ___________________________________
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lofty29
Athanasius Inc.
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Posted - 2007.02.12 09:01:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Tiuwaz its the myrmidon that needs to get hit with nerfbat >_>
CCP shouldnt have folded to the 'OMFG GIEF 125 DRONEBAY LOLZ' nubs I still beat the dumbass 5 ogre pilots with my hobbie II's ---
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Katrina Coreli
Soar Angelic
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Posted - 2007.02.12 09:40:00 -
[14]
On SiSi pre Rev everyone was whining about how overpowered the Drake was compared to the Myrmi.
Hence the Best Passive Shield tanking, 5 Heavy Drone using, uber dps with blasters and lovely armor tank boat that is the Myrmi
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Ione Hunt
Gekidoku Koroshiya Buntai
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Posted - 2007.02.12 09:47:00 -
[15]
Originally by: lofty29
Originally by: Tiuwaz its the myrmidon that needs to get hit with nerfbat >_>
CCP shouldnt have folded to the 'OMFG GIEF 125 DRONEBAY LOLZ' nubs I still beat the dumbass 5 ogre pilots with my hobbie II's
Exactly! The Myrmidon's nerf is the gimped drone bay. Sure, you can fit heavy drones, but once they're dead, you won't have ANY spare drones, not a single one. Also, it doesn't get a hybrid damage bonus, so once the drones are dead, it tickles at most. _______________
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Sandra Tseng
Silentia Mortalis
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Posted - 2007.02.12 09:50:00 -
[16]
But the Eos is a T2 version fo the Brutix, wich is a Blastership, not a Drone carrier. The Eos does however get a bonus to dronebay capacity - and I think that is bonus enough. Combined with its extra resistance teh result is that the Eos survives longer to use its second wave of Heavy drones (as you mentioned) what I am saying is, It does not get a bonus to drone damage, but it gets more drones and the extra resistance to serivive long enough to use them. The blaster damage bonus is carried on from the Brutix and is an automatic +25% bonus for its support weapons.
The Eos is not meant as a frontline combat ship, but it can indeed be used in such a way.
I think the bonuses are good as they are. Changing it to the drone damage bonus would make it redicelosuly strong.
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Kagura Nikon
Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE FREGE Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.12 10:19:00 -
[17]
The EOa can win easily that fight. He just kill mirmy drones (cause it will be packing guns) and have more drones to replace himself. At start the Myrmi might have advantage but the longer the fight takes, the eos start to surpass him... by far far
If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!! |
Zeophyte
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Posted - 2007.02.12 10:36:00 -
[18]
I agree, the split bonus sucks its like it doesnt know wat it is... blaster boat or drone boat none of the other wfcommand ships have this problem....
when the myr came out and i saw the stats i thought "this ship is going to rock" when i used it i thought "omfg this is everything the eos should be" then i cried
now that the myr is here the really is no place for the eos, it sucks as a gal race support ship since its wf links r EW which should belong too the cal WF EBC and if your not using the WF links a myr will give a eos a run for its money
why pay 150m+ w/ fitting when u can get a myr for 60m with fitting just take the isk u save by using a myr and use it to buy rigs and u prob have a better eos on ur hands....
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Nooey
Omerta Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.02.12 10:52:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Zeophyte now that the myr is here the really is no place for the eos
*References you to his post earlier in the thread*
Quote: it sucks as a gal race support ship since its wf links r EW which should belong too the cal WF EBC
I don't know why people think that the race of a fleet command should entirely dictate what bonuses it gives.
Caldari Vulture helps certain Minmatar ships shield tank. Amarrian Damnation helps Minmatar/Gallente ships armor tank. Minmatar Claymore helps ALL RACES of Interceptors/Skirmish become ridiculously effective. Gallente Eos helps ALL RACES have better sensor strengths, gives Caldari a boost to ECM.
Whilst I don't know if it's been confirmed by the Devs or not, I have also heard that the current bonus only to ECM is in fact a bug.
However the point remains, there are very, very flew PvP entities out there that fly just one race of ship. In fact all I can think of in that regard is the CVA Alliance. Given that fact, it's safe to assume that it's ok for a fleet command to give bonuses to other races ships, in fact it makes sense for it to.
Sorry for the derails but I really dislike it when people talk about Fleet Commands like they're combat ships and nothing else, they're simply not. I also get frustrated when people think Fleet Commands should serve their own races only, it's a rather nonsensical argument and I've not ever seen anything solid to support it.
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Royaldo
Old Farts
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Posted - 2007.02.12 11:03:00 -
[20]
shhhh!!!!! for gods sake dont make them nerf it!!
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Tisanta
Amarr Dragonfire Intergalactic Crusaders of Krom
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Posted - 2007.02.12 11:17:00 -
[21]
for some reason CCP seems to think a drone bonus + 125 drone bay is the same as 2 turrets. considering the fact all the other teir 2 bc have atleast 7 weapon hard points and the mym has 5/6 i think + its effectivly got 7.5 drones out at once ( 50% per lvl x 5... you do the math). In my opinion the issue isnt with the ships its with the bonuses.. 50% damage AND hp for one bonus on a ship? drones are ment to go down easy but taking on 5 ogre II that nearly have the hp of an assault frigate isnt easy.
A decent drone commander will retract the drones as they reach armour then redeploy them.. assuming the pilot isnt ECMed. The Mym can tank, gank, nos and EWar all at once.. now these teir 2 battlecruisers are ment to be a step below teir 1 battleships but at their current state they are better than most of their t2 counterparts.. ---
Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes |
Cinnander
Gekidoku Koroshiya Buntai
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Posted - 2007.02.12 12:05:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Cinnander on 12/02/2007 12:02:41 I think you hit the nail square on the head with the "it's a command ship" comment -- it aint a drone boat. Certainly the eos has a BIG drone bay but it's objective is not to be a drone carrier causing much hurt, it's a command ship; the drone space is useful if you want to carry a wave of repair drones as well as whatever your regular combat complement would be (1 wave of med IIs and 1 wave of heavy IIs maybe). When you've got 3 warfare links on and you're tanked (dual rep, expl II, eanm II, dc, etc + injector using a stack of grid), the best you can hope to get in your remaining highslots is 150mm Railgun IIs (or Electrons) -- they can still hurt quite a bit if you're in the right situation, but if you do have 3 links on, you're not there to be causing hurt. A drone damage bonus would make it way overpowered in this context -- even worse if you take the links off and put more/bigger guns or a few nos on.
Give the Eos a drone damage bonus and frankly I think it would be rediculous, everyone would just stick nos on it and ... hey presto! Another Dominix/Ishtar Valk II pwnmobile. And if the Eos is "soooo good" already, how come they're not outrageously exensive :p? -x-
Faction gang mods, you say? |
Pottsey
Gallente Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2007.02.12 12:40:00 -
[23]
öAnd if the Eos is "soooo good" already, how come they're not outrageously exensive :p?ö I have often wondered that and when you can get well over 2500dps as a shield tank and well over 1500dps as an amour tank perhaps more I am surprised you donÆt see it used a lot more often.
Passive shield tanking guide click here |
X99 Z990
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Posted - 2007.02.12 12:45:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Cinnander Edited by: Cinnander on 12/02/2007 12:02:41 And if the Eos is "soooo good" already, how come they're not outrageously exensive :p?
Eos - 114 million Vulture - 74 million Claymore - 70 million Damnation - 65 million
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Pottsey
Gallente Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2007.02.12 12:49:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Pottsey on 12/02/2007 12:45:56 ôEos - 114 million Vulture - 74 million Claymore - 70 million Damnation - 65 millionö All 4 seem extremely cheap and undervalued considering they are more then x3 tougher then HACs and deal more DPS yet are more then half the price of HACS.
114 mill for a ship thats better then a HAC is not expensive at 114 mill. Passive shield tanking guide click here |
MOS DEF
Gekidoku Koroshiya Buntai
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Posted - 2007.02.12 12:52:00 -
[26]
I don`t agree. Yes the myrmidon is the better drone boat. You can totally ignore warfarelinks on the eos tho and put 7 blasters on it. 7x blasters + 5x tech 2 heavy drones is damn effective and actually better then an astarte in most combat situations.
The myrmidon is a damn fine ship but it doesn`t make the eos obsolete. If at all the eos makes the astarte kinda obsolete if the pilot got good drone and gunnery skills.
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LUKEC
Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.02.12 12:53:00 -
[27]
I think all tier 2 bcs are a bit too good, too easy to fit, especially when compared to their "CS" counterparts.
-------- ..... |
X99 Z990
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Posted - 2007.02.12 12:57:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Pottsey Edited by: Pottsey on 12/02/2007 12:45:56 All 4 seem extremely cheap and undervalued considering they are more then x3 tougher then HACs and deal more DPS yet are more then half the price of HACS.
114 mill for a ship thats better then a HAC is not expensive at 114 mill.
Ahh but thats where the EOS shines, its the only one in that list that outdamages HACs. The Field Command ships are a bit more on the cost side going for 130-170 million. I guess theres not as high demand for command ships, maybe because they are too hard to train for.
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dalman
Finite Horizon
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Posted - 2007.02.12 16:07:00 -
[29]
My take on it is that an Eos is clearly better than a Myr. It is however doubtful if it is cost-efficient when used in gang PvP and especially by the average player.
On Eos vs other fleet command... As I've said numerous times, the eos is by far the best damagedealer, but also by far the worst at tanking. And that ofc means the eos is much more prefered by the average that doesn't understand that tank>gank in pretty much all cases (might have a point in when soloing high-end complexes/missions though)(and ofc we have the passive shieldtank for missions).
I see the real problems being with gank links (cause the main bonus of the 4 fleet command ships is the ability to fit 3 of them). For small gangs, the sacrifice of the highs is hardly worth it (+ that you need to be in the same system and they don't work while in warp or cloaked). For small-medium gangs there's also the fact that they don't affect remote reps/boosters. For larger gangs, many of the gang links are rather useless. And then the general fact that all gang-links are useless without a warfare link implant which means you can only use one of the four types at once. And also the fact that it's nigh impossible to fit 3 ganglinks on an eos and have anything close to a decent setup due to fitting reqs. Am I forced to have any regret? I've become the lie, beautiful and free In my righteous own mind I adore and preach the insanity you gave to me |
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