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Takseen
University of Caille Gallente Federation
73
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Posted - 2011.12.16 22:35:00 -
[31] - Quote
Casual in terms of hours played per week, yes absolutely.
Casual in terms of time spent learning how to play...only if you're happy to just mine or run missions. But most of the other elements seem to have a much higher learning curve, pvp especially. |
Shizuken
Venerated Stars
1
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Posted - 2011.12.16 23:11:00 -
[32] - Quote
Citizen Smif wrote:Just a question for you - how do you think EVE is for a casual player? And would you change it if you could, and in what ways?
I think the biggest way is in the skill training system. You do not actually have to be playing (read as "leveling" in most other RPGs) in order to be able to have mechanical access to various aspects of the game. If you are going to be away from the Game for a few months you can log on once every few weeks to update your training queue. That way when you do return you have access to more areas of play. I think EVE strikes a good balance for this.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
2083
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Posted - 2011.12.16 23:23:00 -
[33] - Quote
How do you define GÇ£casualGÇ¥?
I've played EVE very casually for four years now GÇö at least according to my definition of casual play GÇö and it's only become easier to do so over timeGǪ GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
J Kunjeh
81
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Posted - 2011.12.16 23:28:00 -
[34] - Quote
I don't think as it currently stands that Eve is very supportive of casual play. True, casual play can be had, but I think more can be done. I think the current semi-focus on removing unnecessary complexity is a good start (you know, like killing the session change timers...what a waste of time those things are). I think adding more routes of casual play (note: by this I do not mean "dumb Eve down") would be good for CCP and New Eden as more people would play who right now just don't have time for 5 hour CTA's. "The world as we know it came about through an anomaly (anomou)" (The Gospel of Philip, 1-5)-á |
Jack Cavanaugh
Mechanical Eagles Inc. The Ancients.
3
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Posted - 2011.12.16 23:33:00 -
[35] - Quote
If you don't mind paying a monthly sub of 10-13 bucks then EVE is no problem for casual players. All you have to do is login occasionally to update your skill queue. Dive back in a year later, buy/sell a plex or two and you is winrar! |
Pinaculus
Insanely Twisted
75
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Posted - 2011.12.17 00:35:00 -
[36] - Quote
EVE is incredibly casual friendly.
1) PLEX. ISK Grinding is for people who game a lot and are really hardcore about it. For casual players, it's kind of dumb. I make more ISK by working a couple extra hours and not going to Starbucks than I do from grinding Incursions for hours on end. It doesn't work for everyone, but it works for me.
2) Buy/Sell Orders. Now with the quick-add fitting feature from Crucible it's even better. Dock in Jita, post buy-orders for the items/quantities/prices I want, log off. 5 minutes to build as many ships as I can afford to insure.
3) Courier Contracts. Once my orders are filled, I can contract that stuff to Red Frog and they'll deliver it wherever. If you aren't near high-sec they have low and null alternatives. And most corps also have Freighter/Jump Freighter services available as well. The contract system makes this possible. I don't need to be online to hand my stuff to a hauler. It just happens.
4) Real-Time Skills. I don't have to grind a zillion fights just to get better gear or "level up." It just happens over time. Old news, but still as a founding principle it works well.
5) EVE Gate. Yes, the twitter-clone is sillly. Having access to in-game EVE Mails from any web browser is awesome. The event calendar is quite useful, if your corp actually bothers.
6) 3rd Party Stuff. This offers so much functionality, it's hard to cover it all. I can use my Android phone to keep tabs on my skill trains and market orders while I'm out and about. I can use EVEMon and EFT to pre-fit ships before I blow cash on them. Killboards allow me to keep up with what the corp's doing and where. I can hang out on Teamspeak with corp mates, or just listen in while I'm doing other stuff. Teamspeak even has an Android app, so I can BS with them while I'm driving around.
Really, the hardest part is finding people that play the same time you do and like doing the same stuff you like. Beyond that, everything else can be handled with a minimal investment of cash to replace the hours I can't and don't want to spend grinding. I log on, hop in my ship, X up for fleet. The fact that I can only play a couple of hours here and there, and need to preplan as much of my sessions as possible means that a few PLEX ends up lasting me a long time.
TL; DR -> EVE is very casual friendly. You can get most of the boring, time-sink crap out of the way with PLEX, in-game tools, and 3rd party services. I know sometimes it's difficult to realize just how much you spend on incidental things each month or year, but seriously, EVE is very cheap entertainment compared to most things... If you are a smoker, smoke one less pack a week and pay for EVE, with money left over to pick up a cheap bundle of flowers for the EVE widow upstairs. |
Spineker
59
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Posted - 2011.12.17 00:49:00 -
[37] - Quote
Eve is one of the most causual MMO's ever made. |
Famble
Three's a Crowd
159
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Posted - 2011.12.17 01:31:00 -
[38] - Quote
MMO doesn't mean group play. I grow weary of that misconception. MMO means a lot of people playing in the same world, nothing more. We don't have to play together at all. I'm thankful for that too, because most of you guys suck and I don't want to play with you.
If anyone ever looks at you and says, "Hold my beer, watch this,"-á you're probably going to want to pay attention. |
Pinaculus
Insanely Twisted
75
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Posted - 2011.12.17 01:37:00 -
[39] - Quote
In me experience, people that are very good at the solo PVP game are spoken of very highly. The people that aren't respected much are those that whine about how hard it is because they're bad at it.
The "MMO = Multiplayer" meme is mostly directed at them, I think. I guess the moral of the story is, "If you're bad at solo pvp don't whine about it. Get a fleet or get better." I know sometimes it's difficult to realize just how much you spend on incidental things each month or year, but seriously, EVE is very cheap entertainment compared to most things... If you are a smoker, smoke one less pack a week and pay for EVE, with money left over to pick up a cheap bundle of flowers for the EVE widow upstairs. |
MeestaPenni
Mercantile and Stuff
102
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Posted - 2011.12.17 02:02:00 -
[40] - Quote
Tippia wrote:How do you define GÇ£casualGÇ¥?
I've played EVE very casually for four years now GÇö at least according to my definition of casual play GÇö and it's only become easier to do so over timeGǪ
Yet despite that, you've become the self proclaimed EvE know-it-all.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
2083
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Posted - 2011.12.17 02:13:00 -
[41] - Quote
MeestaPenni wrote:Yet despite that, you've become the self proclaimed EvE know-it-all. Nope.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
41
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Posted - 2011.12.17 02:13:00 -
[42] - Quote
If you enjoy most/all the things that there are to do in EVE, rather than seeking to experience only a minority of the content, then it is very casual friendly, as the game never forces you to grind or group up with people.
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:Eve is not in any way supportive of casual players, being a game by and for neckbeards and stay-at-home sons. It's even harder on "lone wolves", and may eventually evolve to a game mechanic whereby undocking when not a member of a 0.0 corporation causes ship and capsule to explode in an instant. Dude, you need to take a chill pill. EVE has always been very supportive of casual and solo players. |
Pinaculus
Insanely Twisted
75
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Posted - 2011.12.17 02:19:00 -
[43] - Quote
I'd agree with that, though I'd do almost anything to not Mission or Mine for cash ever again. Incursions were pretty fun, though. And very easy going, unless you got in the fleets w/ the power farmers. Then they'd expect people to pee in a bottle, I guess, because there weren't going to be any breaks. I know sometimes it's difficult to realize just how much you spend on incidental things each month or year, but seriously, EVE is very cheap entertainment compared to most things... If you are a smoker, smoke one less pack a week and pay for EVE, with money left over to pick up a cheap bundle of flowers for the EVE widow upstairs. |
Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
98
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Posted - 2011.12.17 08:02:00 -
[44] - Quote
Citizen Smif wrote:Dane El wrote:This thread is sure to point out the wide range of peoples' opinions of what casual play is. You play a few hours a day. I play a few hours a week.
Eve can be played casually but you miss out on a lot of what the game is about. I don't really have time to fleet up with other players. The logistics of getting everyone together just eats up too much time with my severely limited play time and scheduled events I can rarely justify penciling in time to play a video game.
Most solo content in Eve is really, really bad. I ran missions for a while. Too repetitive and once I got into trading, the rewards seemed not worth the time. I tried mining. Even worse than missions in all respects with the added bonus of potentially getting a hulk suicide ganked that'll take a ridiculous amount of mining to replace. I tried exploration, slightly more interesting than missions but it got to the point where the rewards still weren't worth the time when compared to trading. I'd scan down the sites and then not bother running them. I could make vastly more money spending that time on trading activities and running sites wasn't exactly exciting. Being in low sec was really the only exciting part but even avoiding getting ganked gets stale after a while.
In short Eve's solo game is pretty pathetic. Solo is what you often get stuck with when you're a casual player because the logistics of working with others usually means lots of waiting on said other players. If I hadn't got hooked on trading, I wouldn't still be playing. I delude myself with the fairy tale that once I reach that mythical future time with copious amounts of time to play video games, I'll have tons of isk to have fun with. The reality is I'm probably amassing this huge pile of isk and skills and won't do anything with it but print more isk.
No you can't have my stuff. I like my fairy tale.
EDIT: Hey! So much for an interesting discussion I suppose. Yeah I agree with you with pretty much everything you said. As a casual player though, what would you want to have changed? A few hours a week is a very small amount of time for any MMO though so to try and make the game appeal to your demographic is no easy task.
I'm not sure that is very hard. CCP never tried and seems to try to do the opposite. "Incursions" is an example. If you do not have large blocks of time to fleet up then you are going ot make about 1/3 the income for the same amount of time.
Other examples are all the pvp mechanics tend to be blob for the win. There is no reason CCP couldn't take say faction war and spread the plexes out over those 4 regions and make it so solo players get decent pvp. They just seem to have some sort of animosity toward casual or solo and build that animosity into their mechanics.
It seems they think that an mmo = team play. But team play has existed long before mmos. Even atari had team playin the early 1980s.
MMO just means you are interacting in a world with large numbers of human beings instead of just with/against a computer ai. But you should still be able to experience that world solo or with others. If anything a npcs are the opposite of the spirit of mmos not solo play. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Akirei Scytale
Test Alliance Please Ignore
450
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Posted - 2011.12.17 08:17:00 -
[45] - Quote
I'd say that depends how you define casual.
For the player who doesn't want to commit much time to a game, but likes the idea of flying around through space and just wants to be entertained a few hours a week, if EVE is his thing then yeah. Skill training means such a small bare minimum time investment that someone who doesn't play much can enjoy the game.
As for someone who wants to play a lot but not delve too deep? Nope. EVE eats those players alive and spits them out. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1346
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Posted - 2011.12.17 08:35:00 -
[46] - Quote
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKnFItGMmrs |
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
626
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Posted - 2011.12.17 08:49:00 -
[47] - Quote
<- Probably the most casual player in eve.
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Jack Cavanaugh
Mechanical Eagles Inc. The Ancients.
7
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Posted - 2011.12.18 02:45:00 -
[48] - Quote
Spineker wrote:Eve is one of the most causual MMO's ever made.
Most Casual MMO EVAR:
http://progressquest.com/
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Abdiel Kavash
Paladin Order Fidelas Constans
220
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Posted - 2011.12.18 03:11:00 -
[49] - Quote
Yes, I would say there are mechanics in EVE which support a type of a casual player who can't be online for long periods of time. Skills train, industry jobs complete, market orders fill, datacores accumulate whether you are online or not. However many things in EVE require a certain time commitment - it's not a game you jump in and play for 15 minutes before going to work. So if you can't put in a few hours at a time - even if only a couple times per week, EVE might not be the game for you.
What EVE is definitely not supportive of, is people thinking they can only play by themselves, never communicate or cooperate with others, and who feel entitled to the same rewards as corporations of hundreds. If for you "casual" means "I do whatever I want and get shiny badges", then no, EVE is not supportive of that. |
Pavel Bidermann
whips chains and ballgags Care Factor
54
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Posted - 2011.12.18 05:15:00 -
[50] - Quote
Citizen Smif wrote:Just a question for you - how do you think EVE is for a casual player? And would you change it if you could, and in what ways?
In my experience EVE can be played casual, whenever I log on I can achieve something. But due to the inevitable grind of having to earn ISK for ships, implants etc a lot of a casual player's time is spent running missions etc. I just don't understand how people can run them all day lol, they're as bad as miners. Anyway, I digress. Casual-EVE can be daunting especially in regards to newer players. Whats your opinion?
First off, thanks OP for posting a good question thread. Lots of redundant threads on GD these days. Also, it's something that directly addresses my game play so, yeah.
I solo mined and manufactured in high sec for about 2 years. Right there would make many EVE players feel a small part of their soul die. I did pretty well and got about a dozen other people started in EVE while I was doing all this. Out of those people, only one person is still playing.
I think it's all about personal goals. What kind of things you want to do and what kind of things you can do. EVE canGÇÖt build a system for that and itGÇÖs a real challenge for any player, no matter what they try to do. ItGÇÖs a sandbox and nobody will hold your hand all the way through. ItGÇÖs all you.
You can't do everything casually. That has to be made very clear. If someone thinks they can log in for an hour or two every other week and still be all 1337 at everything, theyGÇÖre wrong. First, understanding limitations is important. Then finding things you want to achieve within those limitations is a kind of challenge, but can be done. Solo mining/manufacturing/market is not going to make a ton but its okay since I wasn't able to fit a lot of corp./alliance needs. Casual play can be tough but it's all about what you want to achieve.
The problem in EVE is that there isn't a great deal that casual players can try for. It really isn't a big problem and other systems shouldn't be dumbed down to accommodate such play styles. However, thereGÇÖs always room for improvement. Some improvements can be good for any player. Take exploration for example. Exploration should have the potential to find anything regardless of the system level. That makes any system potentially interesting. If needed, the difficulty level can be played with for game balance. People who really build their skills up should be rewarded with interesting finds. Not everything needs to be a loot drop either.
I donGÇÖt know how to make mining interesting. ItGÇÖs a necessary evil, but not the end of the world. Market could use better tools. The best IGÇÖve seen was EVE Metrics. Manufacturing could use some love, but itGÇÖs not terrible. Research is just a pain. The rules are fuzzy, the process is not very polished and the process itself is kind of clunky. I donGÇÖt have any answers for that though. Remember, casual player (would love a reason to log in more though). Like all of EVE, casual play could use some work. I donGÇÖt see it as a very high priority, but it could be addressed better. It could be a real boon to players who are bored or have been playing for a long time too.
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Selinate
166
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Posted - 2011.12.18 05:30:00 -
[51] - Quote
I have a hard time answering this. On one hand, this game does support casual play by giving skills that automatically level up, no gameplay required, and some things that require barely any time investment at all.
However, if you try to do anything with other players who are hardcore players, they'll pretty much outshine (and possibly destroy) you in every way whether it's PvP, market trading, exploration, w/e. These things have a tendency to push the more casual player to be ignored because they simply don't perform as well, typically.
So, honestly, I think this game has a tendency to push most casual players away from the game, and hence is exactly why this game does nowhere near as well as an MMO like WoW. Some people don't necessarily mind the situation though, and revel in it (as has been shown in this thread). The majority though will walk away within maybe an hour, since I can talk to just about any of my friends or any gamer I meet, really, and mention Eve and immediately hear "Oh yeah, that game is TERRIBLE, man", and they usually cite the reasons that basically boil down to the game not being very friendly to casual players... |
Gorefacer
STRAG3S NEM3SIS.
2
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Posted - 2011.12.18 07:59:00 -
[52] - Quote
I think EVE scales well with the time available to play. You can get very involved and sink hours and hours everyday or log in occasionally to change skills and make some isk or roam around for a kill.
However by limiting your time available in game you will limit some of the available things you can get involved with. Many 0.0 roams for instance will take an hour to form and 3 hours or more to go out and come back.
Not everything in the game is easily accessible to the casual gamer. I don't think this is a problem though. |
Eyup Mi'duck
Republic University Minmatar Republic
12
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Posted - 2011.12.18 10:19:00 -
[53] - Quote
Of course it is possible to play EVE casually, tens of thousands of us do. That's why the Hi-sec population outnumbers null so much.
Most vets will 'retire' to hi-sec casual play if they don't quit the game altogether.
Casual play options allow you to make a decent living in EVE and do lots of different stuff, eventually you can own and fly all the sub-cap ships and pimp them with whatever mods you want. Make isk through stuff that is low maintenance and just grinds away whilst you are offline, such as PI and research agents: with just one account (3x toons active) you'll make several billions a year.
But you'll never get to the top of the food chain through casual play. Alliance leadership, Titan fleet commander etc... no way. I am me.-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á I am not you.-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-áI am happy with this situation. |
Fawcks
Avoid and Evade Epsilon Shimmy Alliance
128
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Posted - 2011.12.18 10:22:00 -
[54] - Quote
Citizen Smif wrote:Just a question for you - how do you think EVE is for a casual player? And would you change it if you could, and in what ways?
In my experience EVE can be played casual, whenever I log on I can achieve something. But due to the inevitable grind of having to earn ISK for ships, implants etc a lot of a casual player's time is spent running missions etc. I just don't understand how people can run them all day lol, they're as bad as miners. Anyway, I digress. Casual-EVE can be daunting especially in regards to newer players. Whats your opinion? I don't think Eve is supportive of anything, really. |
Spineker
60
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Posted - 2011.12.19 17:46:00 -
[55] - Quote
Famble wrote:MMO doesn't mean group play. I grow weary of that misconception. MMO means a lot of people playing in the same world, nothing more. We don't have to play together at all. I'm thankful for that too, because most of you guys suck and I don't want to play with you.
Exactly I find it silly for people to say "It is an MMO get in a group!" ignorance. It is Online and people interact nothing about grouping with someone. I interact all the time with people. |
Alistair Cononach
The Legion of Spoon Curatores Veritatis Alliance
71
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Posted - 2011.12.19 18:12:00 -
[56] - Quote
Citizen Smif wrote:Just a question for you - how do you think EVE is for a casual player? And would you change it if you could, and in what ways?
In my experience EVE can be played casual, whenever I log on I can achieve something. But due to the inevitable grind of having to earn ISK for ships, implants etc a lot of a casual player's time is spent running missions etc. I just don't understand how people can run them all day lol, they're as bad as miners. Anyway, I digress. Casual-EVE can be daunting especially in regards to newer players. Whats your opinion?
POS Forum ate my reply. Seems to happen alot.
In any event, the answer is yes, EVE is the best MMO for casuals IMO, and I've played MMO/MUD's for a long time now (20 years+).
But since teh forum ate my long reply, I can't be assed to explain why again. But as a casual, no game is better than EVE IMO. |
Lyron-Baktos
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2011.12.19 18:16:00 -
[57] - Quote
yes, casual players can have fun depending on what they want to do. If they want to do some mining or running missions, they can do it. If they want to be a FC and do large scale battles, then no, or it will be very dificult
On holiday. -áIn some other world. Where the music of the radio was a labyrinth of sonorous colours. To a bright centre of absolute convicton. -áWhere the dripping patchouli was more than scent. -á It was a sun |
Pinaculus
Insanely Twisted
77
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Posted - 2011.12.19 19:04:00 -
[58] - Quote
Lyron-Baktos wrote:yes, casual players can have fun depending on what they want to do. If they want to do some mining or running missions, they can do it. If they want to be a FC and do large scale battles, then no, or it will be very dificult
I find this very strange, to be honest. I've played other MMOs where casual folks could schedule things in advance. Say, PVP is 6pm to 8pm every Friday and Saturday (or whatever). I guess that's hard in EVE because PVP is difficult to instigate when you actually want it to happen. It's too bad, since PVP is certainly where the setting and mechanics shine. I know sometimes it's difficult to realize just how much you spend on incidental things each month or year, but seriously, EVE is very cheap entertainment compared to most things... If you are a smoker, smoke one less pack a week and pay for EVE, with money left over to pick up a cheap bundle of flowers for the EVE widow upstairs. |
SpaceSquirrels
31
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Posted - 2011.12.19 19:19:00 -
[59] - Quote
I think for trading/manufacturing/inventing/Some PI... Yes. Although if you're in a corp and can't be on to maintain a POS or defend it...
Other than that no not really. It takes to long to form up roam around to do a lot of stuff. Mining is one of the few things I found...but only to do while im doing other things such as work, school etc. |
Ai Shun
State War Academy Caldari State
55
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Posted - 2011.12.19 19:40:00 -
[60] - Quote
Citizen Smif wrote:Just a question for you - how do you think EVE is for a casual player? And would you change it if you could, and in what ways?
In my experience EVE can be played casual, whenever I log on I can achieve something. But due to the inevitable grind of having to earn ISK for ships, implants etc a lot of a casual player's time is spent running missions etc. I just don't understand how people can run them all day lol, they're as bad as miners. Anyway, I digress. Casual-EVE can be daunting especially in regards to newer players. Whats your opinion?
I think so, yes. I consider myself casual because I play a few hours a week. But with offline training and the ability to fund your "fun" casual play with PLEX it is easier than in theme-park games. The difficulty though is in setting a realistic enough goal that you are actually doing something in the sandbox other than running mission. |
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