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Author	Reply to Topic \| Show CCP posts - 5 post(s)
R'adeh Gallente Gekidoku Koroshiya Buntai	Posted - 2007.02.07 14:13:00 - [391] - Quote Edited by: R''adeh on 07/02/2007 14:09:24 Disappointing _______________________________________________ My views are my own and I don't represent my corp.
Tomic Gekidoku Koroshiya Buntai	Posted - 2007.02.07 14:14:00 - [392] - Quote Originally by: Rod Blaine If RKK keeping that info to themselves shows anything, it is that they, as opposed to alot of people, can actually be considerate and ethical enough to stfu about it. Why, what a surprise, thought they were all cheating lying lowlifes... Or they knew having a dev in their corp was a major advantage and giving that info out would remove that advantage and they decided they enjoyed having the advantage.
Kristanna	Posted - 2007.02.07 14:15:00 - [393] - Quote Originally by: Ather Ialeas To say what I think as simply as I can: Not enough. Signed
Pellaeon DuGalle Caldari Deep Black Industries	Posted - 2007.02.07 14:15:00 - [394] - Quote Edited by: Pellaeon DuGalle on 07/02/2007 14:12:28 I blink and we're up to 12 pages already. Personally I wish that if T2 BPOs were not spawned by a Dev, then they would spawn a couple more ASAP. More BPOs will hopefully mean cheaper goods, and even better, one day one of those BPOs will end up in my hands. Yum. edit: grammar ------------------- "There is one rule for the industrialist and that is: Make the best quality of goods possible at the lowest cost possible, paying the highest wages possible."
Kcel Chim Caldari Arcane Technologies The Five	Posted - 2007.02.07 14:15:00 - [395] - Quote Originally by: Shin Ra Your assesment depends on knowing whether or not RKK got 100% of the bpo profits beforehands? If the dev kept some of the profits for himself to buy stuff or whatever, then RKK would still not be recieveing 100% of the bpo profits, as I assume they are doing now. So no, in that sense things are not equal. Of course, you can add things like if we had another pilot here we would have done xyz, but thats apples and oranges. Its not unlikely that a guy who spends x months in an alliance donates his stuff to them if he knows he has to leave and will never return. It doesnt matter if its t2 prints like in this case or just ships, mods, chars or other possessions. If i would leave the game and know i would never return why would i care what happens to my stuff, best give it to the close friends and m8s. So if the bpos, like you argued above, are legit its also legit to threat them like regular bpos of a quitting customer. Especially since a dev player account is in no way different from a regular player account when it comes to terms of iskies, lootchances, r&d or clientfunctions.
SNeAkYbRiT Black Lance Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.02.07 14:18:00 - [396] - Quote Originally by: Auman Presumerbly all the Black Lance members going mental over the last few pages have cancelled their subscriptions? I mean you'd have to have zero morals to continue playing if you truly believed these allegations and that a cover up was going on... U said morals LMAO a BoB said morals that *****s me up...so u would like us all to cancel out subscriptions??? who would pay your wages??? cheating isnt enough for u so u want everyone to quit so u can say we won? is that it? u make me laugh.
Gandolf Gallente Black Omega Security Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.07 14:18:00 - [397] - Quote the statment was poor in my opinion and asking for this witch hunt of a thread it has turned out to be i would have prefered to wait longer for a better responce from CCP
Susan Acid Gallente	Posted - 2007.02.07 14:21:00 - [398] - Quote I genuinely feel sorry for the Dev/GM involved but most of the questions raised by Kugu seem to have been sidestepped.Allegations were made against an Alliance and a Dev/GM.The only thing CCP seem to have investigated or commented on is the Dev/GM.They have not adressed the issues brought up by Kugu. I'm sure that all the Bob members would have preferred a statement absolving them of any wrong doing but CCP never supplied it.The OP does not say that there was no wrong doing by the Dev/GM only that he lost his char because his account was disclosed(which is standard practice)For the sake of the community CCP need to say "Nobody broke the EULA and nobody gained an advantage". Until they do this will hang around Bobs neck until the servers close.Which imo is unfair to them.
Juan Andalusian TAOSP Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.02.07 14:21:00 - [399] - Quote Originally by: Shin Ra Its a grey area. AFAIK there are no rules regarding the specifics of such an occurance. You or I might not care, but plenty of people do. There are various ways to look at it. For example, lets say Khatred was a dev in burn eden. He gets caught and leaves us 1 trillion isk worth of t2 bpos. We then buy 10 titans. Fair? Not really. The case with BOB is clearly on a much lower scale but its arguable that the same principal could apply. Not quite. To carry on with your example: You mean all this time from the point Khatred joined BE to the point he was exposed as a dev, since caught would imply he did something wrong, that BE wouldnt have benefited from his bpos? Well maybe in your corp members dont help each other in any way, but what if it was a commie corp? would it matter? The corp or alliance would have benefited from that trilion isk either way wether the dev identity had been compromised or not. The issues are the legality of the isk and assets, which you yourself didnt doubt, and the question of whether the corp or alliance benefited exclusively from communication with the dev which Kieron's reply didnt clarify much unfortunately. Pain is meant to be felt
Stahlregen GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.02.07 14:22:00 - [400] - Quote The Dev in question is t20, correct? I assume so seeing as the expose of him back on page 10 or whatever was deleted.

Hoshi Blackguard Brigade	Posted - 2007.02.07 14:22:00 - [401] - Quote Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: Hoshi If one RKK member found out who was a dev and kept it to himself this would never have happened but the member that found these devs where not ethical enough to do so and spread the knowledge to others in RKK and so here we are. Actually, it would still have happened, as much of the supposed correspondence was between the accused dev characters and non-dev characters, so your point is moot, and rod is right - it's irrelevant. You miss the point. If the member in RKK where not ethical enough to keep the knowledge to him/her self how can we be expected to believe they (he and the people he spread it to) would be ethical enough not to try to take advantage of the knowledge? The minute the knowledge of these devs started to spread among the RKK leadership was the minute these dev chars should have been pulled out, not months later. The question is relevant because if the answer is "yes they knew" then it means that both the rules and the audit concerning dev chars needs to be revised. ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations
Tomic Gekidoku Koroshiya Buntai	Posted - 2007.02.07 14:23:00 - [402] - Quote Originally by: Rod Blaine Yes Tomic, that probably was it. I mean, obviously we'd shut up about it not to protect a corpmate from losing his characters and his 3 years of gameplay effort because we like the guy, but so we can have him put his job and dreams on the line for us so we can pwn ASCN in a day or two less (example). Right. Grow the **** up I will try, but I've endured far too much BOB smack in recent months for that to be too likely :)
Berious GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.02.07 14:25:00 - [403] - Quote Hey CCP, deleting posts doesn't make the issue go away. Just sayin'
Auman Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.02.07 14:29:00 - [404] - Quote Originally by: SNeAkYbRiT Originally by: Auman Presumerbly all the Black Lance members going mental over the last few pages have cancelled their subscriptions? I mean you'd have to have zero morals to continue playing if you truly believed these allegations and that a cover up was going on... U said morals LMAO a BoB said morals that *****s me up...so u would like us all to cancel out subscriptions??? who would pay your wages??? cheating isnt enough for u so u want everyone to quit so u can say we won? is that it? u make me laugh. So that's a no? You'll continue to pay for and play a game in which you believe CCP and BoB collectivetly cheat?
Dianabolic Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.02.07 14:30:00 - [405] - Quote Originally by: Hoshi Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: Hoshi If one RKK member found out who was a dev and kept it to himself this would never have happened but the member that found these devs where not ethical enough to do so and spread the knowledge to others in RKK and so here we are. Actually, it would still have happened, as much of the supposed correspondence was between the accused dev characters and non-dev characters, so your point is moot, and rod is right - it's irrelevant. You miss the point. If the member in RKK where not ethical enough to keep the knowledge to him/her self how can we be expected to believe they (he and the people he spread it to) would be ethical enough not to try to take advantage of the knowledge? The minute the knowledge of these devs started to spread among the RKK leadership was the minute these dev chars should have been pulled out, not months later. The question is relevant because if the answer is "yes they knew" then it means that both the rules and the audit concerning dev chars needs to be revised. No, I'm afraid it is you that is missing the point. Read my post again, please. Quote: 2006.12.18 23:46:04 Notify Phoenix belonging to nOrAb self-destructs.
Eolais GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.02.07 14:30:00 - [406] - Quote I think deleting the posts right now is probably the quickest way to remove any plausible deniable stances on this issue. The fact that references to said person (if I even mention it this post will be deleted), the post is deleted. Seriously, you're sending mixed messages and really just irritating the userbase in the process--adding fuel to the fire, strenghtening the mob. Whether or not it's true, it's not exactly the smartest PR stance to take.
Urban II Amarr GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.02.07 14:31:00 - [407] - Quote Edited by: Urban II on 07/02/2007 14:32:28 Edited by: Urban II on 07/02/2007 14:30:40 29 Jun 2005, Thryr Merim register with the e-mail address vincent@ccpgames.com He rejoined as Ishos on Tue Dec 13, 2005 3:03 pm http://merim.griefwatch.net/?p=pilot...=Thryr%20Merim Corporation History Reikoku First activity: 2006-02-25 15:10:00 http://www.eve-search.com/index.dxd?...=Thryr%20Merim 2005-04-19 01:36:00 Thryr Merim Developmental Neogenics Amalgamate 2004-09-25 22:53:00 Thryr Merim m0o Corp Quote: Pilot: Ishos Rerajan (main / RKK) Specialisation: Amarr Licenced: Amarr BS, Amarr BC, Amarr Command Ships, Amarr Interdictors, Amarr Cloakers, Amarr HAC, Amarr Interceptors Notes: Maxed out Armored Warfare + Command ships + mindlink Pilot: Thryr Merim (main / RKK) Specialisation: Caldari Licenced: Caldari BS, Caldari BC, Caldari Interdictors, Caldari HAC, Caldari Freighters, Caldari Transport Ships, Caldari Interceptors Notes: Maxed Out Missile Operation Skills funny thread where he gives away that he's a dev in the general membership forum Quote: Originally Posted by dimensionZ How counter the fake mails ? Fri Jul 01, 2005 12:56 am Quote: Originally Posted by Galavet cycle the passwords more frequently to cut off people who may have stolen access. Create a password generator that kicks out a mail to all CEOs on a set day of the month. Fri Jul 01, 2005 1:56 am Quote: Originally Posted by dimensionZ The new killboard will allow ppl to use "free" versions, and only have to pay for advanced features (such as alliances killboard and stuff ...). So, once opened to public, and with, probably, a general ranking, ppl will try to cheat. How can we prevent that. Fri Jul 01, 2005 2:42 am Quote: Originally Posted by haze I have thought about this a lot and not been able to come up with any solution. Its the same problem with the game lots, as CCP dont do any kind of auth on the logs there is no way to authenticat them. A simple md5 like hash on each log/killmail would be a nice and simple way for ccp to auth the logs, would make pettitions a lot dam simpler as well. as it stands though I guess we are just going to have to deal with it the best we can. H Fri Jul 01, 2005 10:16 am Quote: Originally Posted by Thryr Merim we read your evemail Mon Jul 04, 2005 2:52 am Quote: Originally Posted by Thryr Merim the system as it is today is a bit obsolete, it's a generated text and the logs only store the one that did most damage as a killer ... we've got plans to store everything in the logs ... more on that later ... low priority atm Mon Jul 04, 2005 2:53 am Quote: Originally Posted by dimensionZ Thryr Merim wrote: we read your evemail Eh ? Mon Jul 04, 2005 2:54 am Quote: Originally Posted by dimensionZ Easy way to deal with it. One click ban. Delete every killmails posted by this user. Remove from rankings the username. Mon Jul 04, 2005 2:55 am Now if you search for vincent@ccpgames.com you find posts on french forums as t20. Originally Posted by t20 Vincent. CCPgames Hf. vincent@ccpgames.com t20 even mentions that he losts his chars. Now someone leak in that **** thread that: t20 was Ishos t20 was in charge of RKK Capital Ship Command t20 when forced to leave RKK, left 10 T2 BPO behind him. t20 witness all the RKK EULA abuse, char resale, etc. t20 is really close to Oveur and they are often seen together on Sisi in local.
Shin Ra BURN EDEN GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.02.07 14:33:00 - [408] - Quote Originally by: Juan Andalusian Originally by: Shin Ra Its a grey area. AFAIK there are no rules regarding the specifics of such an occurance. You or I might not care, but plenty of people do. There are various ways to look at it. For example, lets say Khatred was a dev in burn eden. He gets caught and leaves us 1 trillion isk worth of t2 bpos. We then buy 10 titans. Fair? Not really. The case with BOB is clearly on a much lower scale but its arguable that the same principal could apply. Not quite. To carry on with your example: You mean all this time from the point Khatred joined BE to the point he was exposed as a dev, since caught would imply he did something wrong, that BE wouldnt have benefited from his bpos? Well maybe in your corp members dont help each other in any way, but what if it was a commie corp? would it matter? The corp or alliance would have benefited from that trilion isk either way wether the dev identity had been compromised or not. The issues are the legality of the isk and assets, which you yourself didnt doubt, and the question of whether the corp or alliance benefited exclusively from communication with the dev which Kieron's reply didnt clarify much unfortunately. Yes and I think given the potential for unfair on unbalanced effects, it we seem to be common sense that all assets be deleted along with the character. Just because an argument is put forward saying it didn't make any difference, doesn't mean it couldn't have made any difference. Even if everything you guys are saying is true, surely you can admit that this situation has the potential to be unfair and at the very least, clearer rules are needed on this topic.
Viktor VonCarstein Amarr Phoenix Industries	Posted - 2007.02.07 14:33:00 - [409] - Quote Remaining neutral on the fence as it were, however..... More in depth details are required before the player base will be satisfied. This is a serious issue that requires a serious response. Not some brush off statement such as we see from the military trying to cover things up. If this issue is not cleared up I will also cancel my accounts and hand my stuff to my corp mates. (if any remain) 60% if not more of the people I have spoken so have said they will cancel their accounts if this issue is not sorted.(many of these are over 2 and 3 years old) While this would help lag it certainly won't help CCP's wallet. http://sprayandpray.xippy.co.uk
Therem Harth DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.07 14:33:00 - [410] - Quote Originally by: Rod Blaine That they are always referred to as ebayers says nothing. Half of RA is referred to as ebayers, yet that doesn't mean we really believe them to be when we say it. And it most certainly doesn't mean you're not buying their **** ingame does it ? Could it mean that perhaps it would serve everyone better if they said less things they do not believe in (know to be false) out loud? I do not subscribe to the blatant dribbling witch-hunt in progress here; however it is rather obvious that BoB reap what they sow. It is rather futile to try and say you are reveling in the "bad guys" image ingame and then put on "mature guys" posture when cornered on forums. The stain of the first kind of inevitably leaks through and mars the latter. Therefore, it is readily apparent that not very much loyal understanding of your pain because of possibly unfounded accusations is to be found around here. Getting back on topic, I understand that all of this is probably quite painful and discomforting for CCP; however being a company which not only develops, but also runs the game (that is, as a commercial MMOG operator), there is only one way to handle this: unspin. Go full disclosure on violations (of course when you have taken your time to really investigate), and apply all rules for everyone squarely. If, say, dbp is found to be not guilty of anything - say it out loud, costs you nothing and is a definitive authoritative statement (as opposed to public gnawing at cliffhangers). If SirMolle publicly posts RL information about a player and is proved to - ban him, on common grounds, without all the childish countdowns on who hacked who first. Acting firmly, decisively and openly will minimize the hurt for the company, and, after all, we know you can do that, as evidenced before (4S naming crisis, anyone?). And as to the allegations flying around in this thread, I suggest people come to their senses. It is rather obvious that machinations with T2 BPOs and other instanced objects (including isk) in the game are very easily traced. What IS the problem is the inside/early information leaking. In this game knowing something is the key, and knowing something earlier, or something others don't - gives you a very real and substantial edge (say, POS towers price change in RMR, as a fleeting example). However, it is impossible to fully control and/or investigate. How'd you imagine that? Require a sworn affidavit "I haven't told anyone anything" from every dev, to be witnessed in Hallgrimskirkja? What if s/he blurted something out on #eve-chaos and forgot about it the next day? This can't even be monitored properly. The only thing that can be done is internal CCP cultivation of "don't leak stuff" policy, done in an explanatory way conducive to internal company culture. And all you people crying cheatshaxomgusuck can't do that anyway, so maybe take a napkin and step back a few steps? :) --

Juan Andalusian TAOSP Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.02.07 14:40:00 - [411] - Quote Edited by: Juan Andalusian on 07/02/2007 14:43:36 Quote: however it is rather obvious that BoB reap what they sow. At no point did any BoB director or leader ever deny the possibility of CCP employees of any level or station being part of the alliance. A Dev identity being disclosed doesn't contradict any of the statements made by BoB. And yes we will smack and we will belittle the people who doubt us ingame and on the COAD forums. One cannot claim that it's the same with a real life issue though, such as this, and pretend to be unable to distinguish between being a dck ingame and being mature in face of serious matters. Look at Shin Ra for example, notoriously known for laying down the ego boosting and smack, but fully capable of talking sense and seriously when the situation calls for it. Pain is meant to be felt*
Rod Blaine Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.02.07 14:40:00 - [412] - Quote Edited by: Rod Blaine on 07/02/2007 14:40:57 Goons, I know you probably dont care, but the bit you keep quoting contains personal information about a ccp employee. You know, the stuff that you aren't allowed to post according to the eula. I don't doubt CCP are going to run out of patience on that at some point. Names don't matter, and besides that name it doesn't prove a thing does it ? The points about char resale and eula abuse are conjecture. I happen to know that the ones mentioned aren't true. You think they are, CCP thinks theyT not. quit or stfu ? [center] Old blog
Obivan Efa The Machines	Posted - 2007.02.07 14:40:00 - [413] - Quote What a resonance... CCP should solve this problem and quickly or it will be the sunset of the EVE. Who will play a card game for money with the known card-sharper and cheater? As soon as CCP admited those facts of BoD they should 1. Find all involved in cheating chars/corps/alliances and punish them all hard as an example for the future. Make the results of this actions public. 2. Take effective actions to prevent such crisis in future. This system should be open for community and unbiassed. Nobody will take on trust what CCP will say in such cases anymore. We are paying customers and have rights to demand a good game service for our money including good CCP/community interaction. If CCP will spit upon the community it will be not a big deal but if our community will spit upon CCP - it will be lost. ____________________________ Die, but perish! - viking's war-cry
Razor Jaxx Fate.	Posted - 2007.02.07 14:41:00 - [414] - Quote My take on this : - Outed Devs : It is my understanding that Devs are allowed to play the game under the proviso that their CCP identity remains hidden at all times, including to their in-game friends and corpmates. The Devs that have been outed brought this upon themselves by failing to comply to this capital rule (if you can't understand why this rule is in place, you need a functional brain). The how and why the information became known to the general public is irrelevant - the general public wouldn't have known anything if said Devs had kept a low profile in the first place. Character recycling is normal under the circumstances. - Dev corp policing : I've read here and there people complaining about Dev characters not policing their alliance when witnessing borderline (or EULA-violating) actions. This is bull**. You can't ask of Devs to play and act as regular players on one hand, and ask them to play as Devs when they witness suspicious actions. This, however, exposes one of the "grey areas" of letting Devs play as general community members : What is a supposedly secret Dev character to do when faced with EULA violations on his player account? Act as a Dev? Block the info out with a mind eraser? You see the problem. - BPOs allegations : Nowhere have I seen the slightest evidence that these BPOs were acquired malevolently. This is pure urban myth and speculation. It is not uncommon to hear of players who have won several T2 BPOs in the lottery. As far as we can tell, those BPOs were acquired legitimately, and if their rightful owner's decision is to donate them to his corporation upon leaving, then so be it, there is nothing wrong with this, it is actually quite common. - ISD allegations : Even though those haven't been addressed, Kenshin's revelations were by far the most disturbing to me, in the sense that is was an actual acknowledgement of unpunished foul play by its very own perpetrator. What is CCP going to do about this, and what assurances will we be given? - CCP's handling of the issue :** It's been said countless of times in this thread, so I won't elaborate needlessly. Where the audience was expecting clear answers, it received a vague statement instead, that not only does very little to help, but actually makes the issue worse by creating more speculation while failing to clear the innocent of any wrongdoings. As for the bit about internal auditing - I'll play the devil's advocate here : this is an oxymoron. Serious auditing is never internal. I mean, who's going the audit the auditeers' playing accounts? (yes, I'm being cheeky, but you see my point).
Betty Rubble Caldari Black Lance Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.02.07 14:42:00 - [415] - Quote If a dev got a series of BPOs and gave them to BoB then that's PROOF that BoB has an advantage through cheating. Here's how: 1 - Dev KNEW before any regular player what skills, what standing and what other resources would be necessary for the upcomming "lottery" that would grant T2 BPOs. 2 - Dev obtained these skills KNOWINGLY before other players knew the same details. 3 - Dev worked on their standings KNOWINGLY before other players knew how beneficial they would be. 4 - Dev KNEW which fields of science would produce what would likely be the most profitable and useful of all BPOs distributed, and KNEW better than any regular player which fields had what chances of getting such BPOs. 5 - Dev had a head start on gaining BPOs above and beyond any player who does not have access to dev information, that is, regular customers. 6 - Dev obtains BPOs using his advantageous information and ends up giving them to BoB for his own PERSONAL reasons. 7 - BoB has obtained valuable in-game items through the advantage granted to them by having such dev in their alliance, an advantage over other alliances in the game of which are competetive. Conclusion - BoB has an advantage over other alliances due to the fact that a dev joined them.
gofoi Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.02.07 14:42:00 - [416] - Quote lucky for BOB i got the whole thing sorted out. On a more serious note, BOB members are saying that K. haxed their forums, but still we had Diana saying that the whole story was made up. I realy hope that we also have devs in our alliance (COL have lots of icelandic people so why not) this is no big deal, they should always participate in the game operations as it is a way to enhance the gaming experience. They should, however, have a line not to cross, between participating and making a difference. Leading or beeing lead. Anyways, much more accusations have been thrown at BOB's leader's face and, as Rod stated, I would like to see a bigger answer going from each accusation to each accusation, even if it should take one month. But please, BOB, don't come here as a victim, as Rod also stated, RA has always been called E-bayers, AAA exploiters and so on (personnal experience) so don't come here crying as a victim. No one hates you, hate doesn't belong here, we're all indignated. Some don't understand towards who the indignation should point but this ain't our fault, considering that we have some amazing answers of the devs considering this issue. I don't have time to hate BOB, I'm way too selfish, I would just like to see the devs put more heart into a Public Report that could have the force to change EVE's face. Bring us all facts, may it be a 10 page report, I don't care. I'm sure that I'm in the exact same situation of some BOB members (if not all - appart from Molle who still didn't understood the situation), awaiting for answers, real concrete answers. But, what amazes me the most, is think that some people in BOB actualy thought (if true) that they would need that cheating to win when, as a matter of fact, they had all cards in hand to achieve what they've done in a normal way. I will still be looking at this thread hoping that we'll get some more answers. Until then, no one is guilty for anything. I'm very sorry for my english grammar. /Omeega
Dianabolic Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.02.07 14:42:00 - [417] - Quote I don't see how anything urban II has posted is in any way controversial or against EULA? I'd also love to hear what EULA RKK has broken, considering the only one that anyone has accused us of (buying a char for cash) was subsequently proven to be complete rubbish? Quote: 2006.12.18 23:46:04 Notify Phoenix belonging to nOrAb self-destructs.
Tomic Gekidoku Koroshiya Buntai	Posted - 2007.02.07 14:43:00 - [418] - Quote Originally by: Juan Andalusian Quote: however it is rather obvious that BoB reap what they sow. At no point did any BoB director or leader ever deny the possibility of CCP employees of any level or station being part of the alliance. A Dev identity being disclosed doesn't contradict any of the statements made by BoB. Any chance we'll get back to page one with this ? Backpedalling 4tw.
MrTriggerHappy Caldari Interstellar eXodus R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.02.07 14:43:00 - [419] - Quote Firstly: Wow this topic is flying!!! Secondly: Quote: We hope that this statement will put this issue behind us once and for all and allow us to continue moving forward with the support of our community. I'm sorry but I do not believe that you've actually answered anything to prove that this topic should be left behind Kieron. Why? Well in your post you mentioned about the allegations to what have been made, you also go onto mention that devs have to leave their in game friends and make new characters. However this isnt addressing the issue as to what was done with the original allegations. Was there any proof? Was anyone punished if there was? I have no issues with the devs playing the game, it's their game, they change things by all means. However it could be seen as a conflict of interest if they are in the major alliances and will eventually lead to further distrust in the player-ccp relathionship, to which reading from other posts is really minimal at the minute. What I would like to see, as i believe many others is a conclusion to this, if the investigation is over and what CCP's results were and what has/will happened to the people involved. -------------------------------- My Comments in no way reflect my corp or alliance
Dianabolic Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.02.07 14:44:00 - [420] - Quote Originally by: Razor Jaxx My take on this : - Outed Devs : It is my understanding that Devs are allowed to play the game under the proviso that their CCP identity remains hidden at all times, including to their in-game friends and corpmates. The Devs that have been outed brought this upon themselves by failing to comply to this capital rule (if you can't understand why this rule is in place, you need a functional brain). The how and why the information became known to the general public is irrelevant - the general public wouldn't have known anything if said Devs had kept a low profile in the first place. Character recycling is normal under the circumstances. - Dev corp policing : I've read here and there people complaining about Dev characters not policing their alliance when witnessing borderline (or EULA-violating) actions. This is bull**. You can't ask of Devs to play and act as regular players on one hand, and ask them to play as Devs when they witness suspicious actions. This, however, exposes one of the "grey areas" of letting Devs play as general community members : What is a supposedly secret Dev character to do when faced with EULA violations on his player account? Act as a Dev? Block the info out with a mind eraser? You see the problem. - BPOs allegations : Nowhere have I seen the slightest evidence that these BPOs were acquired malevolently. This is pure urban myth and speculation. It is not uncommon to hear of players who have won several T2 BPOs in the lottery. As far as we can tell, those BPOs were acquired legitimately, and if their rightful owner's decision is to donate them to his corporation upon leaving, then so be it, there is nothing wrong with this, it is actually quite common. - ISD allegations : Even though those haven't been addressed, Kenshin's revelations were by far the most disturbing to me, in the sense that is was an actual acknowledgement of unpunished foul play by its very own perpetrator. What is CCP going to do about this, and what assurances will we be given? - CCP's handling of the issue : It's been said countless of times in this thread, so I won't elaborate needlessly. Where the audience was expecting clear answers, it received a vague statement instead, that not only does very little to help, but actually makes the issue worse by creating more speculation while failing to clear the innocent of any wrongdoings. As for the bit about internal auditing - I'll play the devil's advocate here : this is an oxymoron. Serious auditing is never internal. I mean, who's going the audit the auditeers' playing accounts? (yes, I'm being cheeky, but you see my point). imma gonna use that, thanks Razor. Quote:** 2006.12.18 23:46:04 Notify Phoenix belonging to nOrAb self-destructs.

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