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Xi Xing
Gallente United Freelancers Organization
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Posted - 2007.02.06 15:18:00 -
[1]
Hi
Is it common to be allocated an extremely difficult mission really early in the game?
After finishing the tutorial, I was directed to go to an Agent who could give me some combat missions. - The first mission was great fun, and not too difficult - the second was harder, as I was up against (i think) 3 ships... which is quite a lot for a n00b in an Atron who's never even heard of tanking. But I won :) - the third one...
well, i warp into the deadspace region to find about 10 ships waiting for me - i kill 3 of them no problem, but then come up against 2 ships called "Rapiers", who basically put me in my pod in seconds.
OK... a minor setback.
So I go off and gather some money together, and come back with an Incursus, which i think is just the best thing ever because it has 2 (count them!) guns, and a shield fixer-upper and stuff.
Dead within seconds.
Seeing as it's quite annoying to mine for hours to buy a ship and then spadge it up a wall before you can even say warp, I moved on and did other stuff...
I came back to the mission in my 3-drone frigate with an ok tank. DEAD! Start again.
Reading these forums today, I notice that the mission I was assigned as my 3rd ever task in Eve (called "The Mordus Headhunters") is "challenging, even in a cruiser" and is like, a level 3 or 4 mission.
ZOMGWTF! I thought I was just crap.
I must admit, although I LOVE LOVE LOVE this game, being assigned an unfinishable mission by the first person the n00b tutorial directed me to is pretty poor game design
I guess the question is... with each agent, is the 1st mission you get level 1, the 2nd level 2, the 3rd level 3 and so on? Or is is just random? ---------------------------------------- Trainee Combat Pilot and Dronemistress "Say hello to my little friends" ---------------------------------------- |
Gadfly Hawke
G-Tek Confederation of Independent Corporations
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Posted - 2007.02.06 15:32:00 -
[2]
You probably got a bug. That's definitely not standard mission procedure. I suggest that you petition it. It will take a while, weeks possibly, to get a response, so you might plan on spending some time mining in the interval.
G-Tek is recruiting |
Guaradar
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Posted - 2007.02.06 15:32:00 -
[3]
Every agent can pull from almost any of the missions that relates to his level. Therefore, a level one agent can pull from any of the level one missions, with a few exceptions (and those exceptions are mostly factional-based, like you won't fight against the Caldari if you are working for a Caldari agent).
Many missions have multiple versions of it, and the Mordus Headhunters is a good example. There are separate missions for levels 1-3 all called Mordus Headhunters, but the difficulty is relative to the level (so you will only be going against frigates in level 1, but you'll be going against a lot of cruisers in the level 3).
Agents give a different mix of encounter and courier (and some other missions as well) based on their division within their corp (internal security are mostly encounter missions, public relations is a mix, etc.).
A good way to judge the relative difficulty level of a mission within that level is what the rewards are -- if you're looking at a lvl 1 mission that is paying out almost 100k, you can bet it's going to be a lot more difficult than a lvl 1 mission that pays 25k. For now, while you are still low on skill points and are in some of the basic frigates, decline the missions that pay a lot (at level 1 this is probably Mordus and Worlds Collide) unless you can get some people to help you out. You can decline a mission from an agent once every 4 hours without penalty. If you have to decline another one in that amount of time, see if there is another agent nearby (preferably in the same corporation as your current agent) that you can run for.
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Sahjahn
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.02.06 15:40:00 -
[4]
The Mordus Headhunters is a LvL 2 mission and is ONLY delt out by Level 2 agents.
Now quite how you got a Level 2 agent so soon i don't really know but hey that's what happened.
Find a LvL 1 agent and work for him/her, you won't complete a LvL 2 in a frigate with no skills.
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Kumu Honua
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Posted - 2007.02.06 15:41:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Kumu Honua on 06/02/2007 15:38:10 Edited by: Kumu Honua on 06/02/2007 15:37:45 There is a level 2 version of Mordus headhunters, but not level 1.
This is one thing that I like about Eve. It doesn't pull it's punches. You get a mission, but it may not be soloable. Grab a friend.
Or you can wait till you have a better ship to do it, or you can try other methods.
Try your incursus again, but head away from the enemies, target one to get agro, launch your drones, send em after the enemies, and keep moving away from them while your drones rip through them.
Or try a Tristan, missiles make short work of the baddies.
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Matalino
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.02.06 15:43:00 -
[6]
The two missions given by the tutorial agent are always the same. After that, once you have moved on to a regular level 1 agent, missions are handed out at random. So you are you can get one of the harder level 1 missions or you could get an easy one. There is no way to know what you will get. You can generally make an educated guess as to how hard the mission is by how much the reward is and how long is given to collect the bonus. The higher the reward and the longer the bonus time, the harder the mission. This pattern will also help when you move from up a level in missions. The difference between mission level can be large.
Another note, sometimes there are missions with the same name at different levels. Example there is a level 1 and level 4 Worlds Collide. There are several levels of the mission "The Mordus Headhunters". Which level you are doing depends on the level of agent that you are talking to. Both of those missions are comparitively hard for their level. There are no level 1 missions that should be hard in even a moderately fitted cruiser (other than you can't use a cruiser at all in Worlds Colide). But you should not need a cruiser for any level 1 mission. Teir 3 frigate (a frigate requiring level 3 of the frigate skill) or a destroyer should be able to do any level 1 mission once you have your fittings and tactics figured out.
It has been a while since I did the level 1 "The Mordus Headhunters" so I will leave it to others to provide mission specific advice. The Imcus and the Atron don't have much for tanking on them. I would recommend the Incursus or Tristan.
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Ron Stone
Caldari Firebane's Elite North Star Confederation
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Posted - 2007.02.06 15:45:00 -
[7]
the agents level determins the mission level. If you agent level is one he will give out level 1 missions. Some missions have both level 1 and a higher version ala Worlds Collide, and Garistas (isert faction name) Extravaganza.
Thank you, Ron Stone Firebane's Elite Co-CEO Freighter Service |
Xi Xing
Gallente United Freelancers Organization
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Posted - 2007.02.06 15:50:00 -
[8]
That is incredibly useful information...
So just because someone is talking about struggling to beat a mission in a much better ship, doesn't mean it's the exact same mission. Just a similar theme.
The reward is only 67000. So basically I am just a bit rubbish!
Perhaps my earlier technique of "get in close and blast away while dispensing a drone or two" was a no-hoper against the number and type of ships in the mission...
Thing is, the experience of losing 3 ships to one mission has left me pretty wary of taking my new (and quite nicely fitted) Tristan in there!
I guess that's the exciting bit about Eve - high risk ventures.
Thanks ---------------------------------------- Trainee Combat Pilot and Dronemistress "Say hello to my little friends" ---------------------------------------- |
Nigh7F0x
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Posted - 2007.02.06 15:53:00 -
[9]
One thing that you may not realize yet is that Eve doesn't hold your hand. There is no order in which missions are handed out. Like it was already said, the agents pull missions from a pool and you can get any of the level 1 missions from a level 1 agent. Some are easy and you can nearly sleep through them, others are going to land you in a pod. The quality of the agent determines the payout. There are some of the missions that will repeat in upper levels, like Mordus Headhunters. There is a level 3 version of it with more difficult npc's. Just keep trugging and eventually you will be on to level 2 agents before you know it.
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Tkar vonBiggendorf
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.02.06 15:56:00 -
[10]
Try 150mm railguns with Tungsten ammo, which should give you a really long range. (Right click on your gun button in space and show-info to get your exact optimal range in your current configuration.) Fit an afterburner. If you don't have the skill for Afterburner, buy and train to level 1. In an Incursus with AB, you should be faster than the enemy, and able to maintain that speed for some time.
Get their attention, and shoot them while running away, maintaining a distance at or just under your optimal range. They probably won't be able to do much damage to you at that range in a level 1 mission.
If you do start taking damage, warp out/repair/return.
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Matalino
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.02.06 15:57:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Xi Xing Perhaps my earlier technique of "get in close and blast away while dispensing a drone or two" was a no-hoper against the number and type of ships in the mission...
Ya, that is probably what got you killed. The Imicus doesn't do in close. The Imicus gets a bonus to drone control range. So the trick with using it is to go in, take a couple pot shots at the 'rats so that they target you, then run away. Once they have locked on to you they will ignore your drones. Launch the drones. There aren't many 'rats in level one missions that can shoot you at 20km, but your drones can go to town on them.
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Xi Xing
Gallente United Freelancers Organization
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Posted - 2007.02.06 16:26:00 -
[12]
Thanks again.
My current Tristan's setup is probably laughable (especially as I now know that mixing shield and armor tank is a stupid newbie mistake) but it breezes through ratting in 0.5 space, which is how I am earning the ISK.
Hi: 150mm Rail with Plutonium (should prob change that to a better range ammo) Anode Light Electron Particle Cannon with Plutonium Small 'Ghoul' Energy Siphon (keeps the cap charged) +1 empty (have no skill in missiles)
Med: Monoprop I Hydrazine blah blah afterburner Small Shield Booster Stasis Webifier (not used yet, just bought it)
Lo: Power diagnotic sys Small Armor Repairer (never use it in a fight, just keep it equipped cos I had spare slots) +1 empty
embarrasing
I intend to change from shield to armor tanking, after reading loads of stuff explaining that Gallentean ships prefer armor. ---------------------------------------- Trainee Combat Pilot and Dronemistress "Say hello to my little friends" ---------------------------------------- |
Matalino
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.02.06 16:55:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Matalino on 06/02/2007 16:56:08 If you don't have missile skills, and don't plan to train them (Gallente don't have very many ships with Launcher hardpoints) then I would recommend selling the Tristan and getting an Incursus.
As for tanking, ya, you will do better if you pick one or the other. Example with your current Tristan set up, if you have the CPU left over, try fitting in a PDS instead of the armour repairer. That or ditch the shield booster for a Cap Recharger/Battery.
As for Armor vs Shield tanking, do forget WHY Gallente prefer armor tanking, otherwise you might miss out on effective Gallente setups that use shield tanking. Gallente, in general, prefer Armor tanking because they have more low slots and because they have some ships that give bonuses to armor tanking. Another factor is Power Grid verses CPU. Armor tanking uses more PG. Shield tanking uses more CPU.
Edit - You should use every slot that you can for something that helps you in your ships primary roll. You might want to try putting nano in your spare low slot for some extra speed.
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Scilent Enigma
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.02.06 16:59:00 -
[14]
Ok. I've mannaged to pull off several missions that was waay to hard for the ship type I flew by going long range. Aim for speed and long range.
Fit your ship for as long range as possible. Rails etc.
Move in, get aggro so they are following your, turn around and move away from the enemy. A usefull thing when doing this tactic is to show the Radial velocity in the overview (basicly this speed shows how fast your are moving from eachother or to eachother. if you get a negative speed you are closing in and if you get a positive you are moving away from eachother.) To enable this click the little triangle just beside the word overview in your overview then slect Overview options (or something like that, can't remember the exat word byt it has settings or options in it) then click the columns tab and mark Radial.
The trick is to get to a range where they are following you and you are moving away from them at the same time at a range where you are hardly taking any damage at all while still being able to deal damage to them. To ensure this you want the range set then by manually tweaking the speed of your ship (click in the speedometer at the bottom of your controls will manually change the speed) to where you are at that range and your radial velocity is as close to 0 as possible.
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Ilor Prophet
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Posted - 2007.02.06 20:24:00 -
[15]
I'm going to echo Scilent E's advice. I was doing Level 2 missions for a courier agent (i.e. carry stuff from point A to point B). In order to make things quick, I was using a Condor (tier 2 Caldari frigate, very fast). Well, some small percentage of missions handed out by courier agents are combat missions, and I drew one. So I decided, "why not give it a try in the old Condor?" When I warped in, I was beset by a bunch of frigates. I drew aggro immediately and started getting pounded. After blasting one of the 4 and putting another into armor, I warped out (at <50% armor myself). I took some time to fix myself back up (I had an Armor rep fitted, luckily) and recharge my capacitor, I warped back in. This time, I was a little farther away from the baddies and immediately started flying away from them. Outside their effective range, I was able to blast them one-by-one. When they were all dead, another group of 5 frigates jumped in and I repeated the process.
The third wave was 2 regular frigates and a Dread Guristas nasty. He was brutal and any time I got too close he'd pound me. And he was almost as fast as I was. But eventually, I finished them all off. By the time I was done, my string of cans was over 250 km long.
But two good things came out of it - first, I can say that I successfully completed a level 2 kill mission in one of the weakest frigates in the game, and second, the Dread Guristas head bad guy dropped a faction implant which I sold for 115 Million ISK. Heh.
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Gadfly Hawke
G-Tek Confederation of Independent Corporations
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Posted - 2007.02.06 20:25:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Gadfly Hawke on 06/02/2007 20:22:14
Originally by: Xi Xing
The reward is only 67000. So basically I am just a bit rubbish!
That looks like a Level 2 award. I think you managed to get a Level 2 mission. A petition might get you a ship or two returned.
G-Tek is recruiting |
Matalino
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.02.06 20:39:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Matalino on 06/02/2007 20:38:05
Originally by: Gadfly Hawke Edited by: Gadfly Hawke on 06/02/2007 20:22:14
Originally by: Xi Xing
The reward is only 67000. So basically I am just a bit rubbish!
That looks like a Level 2 award. I think you managed to get a Level 2 mission. A petition might get you a ship or two returned.
No, there are level 1's with higher rewards than that. I have had Worlds Colide top 100K and that was with a -6 quality agent and without training Negotiation, so the rewards can get higher still.
Edit - but, yes that is high for a level 1 mission, so I am not suprised that a newer player has a hard time with it.
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ToranagaSama
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Posted - 2007.02.06 22:46:00 -
[18]
JFYI, I'm working lvl 1 agents with quality 10 and 12. I routinely get 300K plus mission rewards, including bonus.
Of course, this in 0.3 space.
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Simon Jax
Gallente Freelancing Corp
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Posted - 2007.02.06 23:17:00 -
[19]
Amongst the other advice to remember is that not every ship setup is going to work for every situation!! This is really, really important to remember and is especially true when youÆre just starting out and facing tough missions. Sure, getting in close may have worked great against several of the rats, but if you face something thatÆs faster than you and can hit hard this wonÆt work so well. It can keep you at its optimal range, and not the other way around like you want it.
I run several level 3 missions with a pretty generic tank and do just fine, then get to another and find myself warping out to save my ship! So I return to station, fit a tank specifically countering the damage I was receiving and try again!! If that doesnÆt work IÆll switch to a higher damage output setting or swap in a second repper or whatever I need to.
DonÆt worry about needing to swap out setups, instead use this type of thing to learn from. As a new player, you should be looking at how they beat you. Your log will tell you how hard they were hitting you, and you can see where you are boosting/repping. There are lists available that have the damage types expected from mission rats, and you can then review your setup to see if you are shielding/armor resisting against those types etc. etc.
This is how you can identify where you need to focus your training as well. CanÆt keep up with the rats? Work on Navigation skills. CanÆt keep your capacitor charged? Work on Engineering skills. CanÆt keep your armor from evaporating? Mechanic skills for the win! All of the above? Well, two levels in any of these skills will typically only take you a couple of hours to train and give you a 10% leg-up. YouÆve got a lot of skills that will have a great return-on-training-time-invested right now!
The above is meant to be encouraging. ItÆs a steep learning curve sometimes, but man does it get easier as time goes on. Well, until you find the next steep part at any rate ;).
--Wherever you go, there you are. |
Madelchai
Clandestine Vector Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.06 23:21:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Xi Xing Thanks again.
My current Tristan's setup is probably laughable (especially as I now know that mixing shield and armor tank is a stupid newbie mistake) but it breezes through ratting in 0.5 space, which is how I am earning the ISK.
Hi: 150mm Rail with Plutonium (should prob change that to a better range ammo) Anode Light Electron Particle Cannon with Plutonium Small 'Ghoul' Energy Siphon (keeps the cap charged) +1 empty (have no skill in missiles)
Med: Monoprop I Hydrazine blah blah afterburner Small Shield Booster Stasis Webifier (not used yet, just bought it)
Lo: Power diagnotic sys Small Armor Repairer (never use it in a fight, just keep it equipped cos I had spare slots) +1 empty
embarrasing
I intend to change from shield to armor tanking, after reading loads of stuff explaining that Gallentean ships prefer armor.
To be honest, ditch the Tristan, and get an Incursus. Trying to get missiles up to anything worthwhile is just another thing to train. Better to focus on your gunnery/drone/support/learning skills than worry about taking on missile training too.
High: 3x Ion Blasters
Med: (Can mix these up to suit tastes/mission need) Afterburner (Preferably Cold-Gas, but best you can afford) Cap Recharger Web Target Painter (will help both you and your drone hit better because of your lower SP)
Low: Small Armor Rep Power Diagnostic if needed, or else a cheap Nanofiber.
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Xi Xing
Gallente United Freelancers Organization
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Posted - 2007.02.07 08:30:00 -
[21]
Hi
Thanks for all the advice. I will probably do what you say regarding the Tristan>Incursus swap, although last night I got back in an Imicus, because it lets me use 3 drones. I'm just experimenting with staying close and using the Nos to keep the cap full, or using some kind of cap booster module.
I can't be bothered starting a petition. The missions have expired anyway. Who cares, eh? There's plenty more to do.
Like save up for that Cruiser.
Cheers. ---------------------------------------- Trainee Combat Pilot and Dronemistress "Say hello to my little friends" ---------------------------------------- |
Madelchai
Clandestine Vector Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.07 08:34:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Xi Xing Hi
Thanks for all the advice. I will probably do what you say regarding the Tristan>Incursus swap, although last night I got back in an Imicus, because it lets me use 3 drones. I'm just experimenting with staying close and using the Nos to keep the cap full, or using some kind of cap booster module.
I can't be bothered starting a petition. The missions have expired anyway. Who cares, eh? There's plenty more to do.
Like save up for that Cruiser.
Cheers.
If you find yourself liking Drones, then the Imicus is fine, too. I wouldn't use a Cap Booster, just because the charges will take up room in your limited-in-size cargo hold. Go for a Cap Recharger and you should be good. Especially with Drones doing the brunt of the work you shouldn't be having many cap issues.
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Xi Xing
Gallente United Freelancers Organization
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Posted - 2007.02.07 08:55:00 -
[23]
The imicus has got a rubbish standard capacitor, and i've been orbiting and nossing at 5000m, while webifying, armor-repping and ABing to try and get away from as much of the fire as poss, while my drones get in there and finish the job. No guns at all on the ship.
Although i'm also messing around with the other tactic of 2 railguns and keeping them at distance! ---------------------------------------- Trainee Combat Pilot and Dronemistress "Say hello to my little friends" ---------------------------------------- |
Matalino
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.02.07 14:53:00 -
[24]
If you like the drones as a weapons, you are in the right race of ships. Every level of Gallente ship has a ship with bonuses to drones.
Your stratagy of fitting a NOS on the Imicus sounds like a mini version of the very popular NOS-Domi Battleship.
Your right that the Imicus has crap for Cap. I would recommend dumping the webber for a Micro Cap Battery. That will give you a 24% increase to your Cap.
Given the range bonus for the Imicus, you could be fighting just as effectively at +30km as at 5km. I don't think there is much if anything at all that can touch you at that range in level 1 missions. Just fit a railgun to get argo on you, instead of your drones. I don't expect that the your railgun will do any damage at that range, but it doesn't need to.
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Xi Xing
Gallente United Freelancers Organization
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Posted - 2007.02.07 15:20:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Matalino If you like the drones as a weapons, you are in the right race of ships. Every level of Gallente ship has a ship with bonuses to drones.
Your stratagy of fitting a NOS on the Imicus sounds like a mini version of the very popular NOS-Domi Battleship.
Your right that the Imicus has crap for Cap. I would recommend dumping the webber for a Micro Cap Battery. That will give you a 24% increase to your Cap.
Oh yeah, my character is a drone specialist. I already have Gallente Cruisers II and Med Hybrid Turret III trained up... all I need is the cash to buy that Vexor...
The reason for the webifier was to slow the rat down, making it easier for the drones to kill it quickly. However, given that my Drone Nav is level 5, slowing them down might actually DECREASE the chance of them hitting... due to a higher transverse/orbital velocity.
Is this possible? Super-fast drone vs slowed rigate = lots of missing? Or have I just misunderstood CCP's turret guide? Does it even apply to drones?
questionsquestionsquestions!!! ---------------------------------------- Trainee Combat Pilot and Dronemistress "Say hello to my little friends" ---------------------------------------- |
Matalino
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.02.07 15:41:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Xi Xing The reason for the webifier was to slow the rat down, making it easier for the drones to kill it quickly. However, given that my Drone Nav is level 5, slowing them down might actually DECREASE the chance of them hitting... due to a higher transverse/orbital velocity.
Is this possible? Super-fast drone vs slowed rigate = lots of missing? Or have I just misunderstood CCP's turret guide? Does it even apply to drones?
The webber won't help at all unless the target is moving so fast that the drones can't keep up. Generally that is not a problem with Light drones and rarely a problem with medium drones.
As for the webber actually hurting damage output, I have heard mixed answers on that, and nothing that is recent enough that I would trust it. Unforuntately it is also something that is hard to test for yourself.
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Xi Xing
Gallente United Freelancers Organization
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Posted - 2007.02.07 15:44:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Matalino Unforuntately it is also something that is hard to test for yourself.
Yes, because you don't get the 'damage report' window for drones, like you do for turrets.
I can see that if I orbit at 2500m and switch on ABs I hit damage the rat about half as often as if i orbit at normal speed... but I can't tell if drones have the same thing going on.
Anyway ta. Webifier binned off! ---------------------------------------- Trainee Combat Pilot and Dronemistress "Say hello to my little friends" ---------------------------------------- |
Madelchai
Clandestine Vector Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.07 16:27:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Xi Xing
Originally by: Matalino Unforuntately it is also something that is hard to test for yourself.
Yes, because you don't get the 'damage report' window for drones, like you do for turrets.
I can see that if I orbit at 2500m and switch on ABs I hit damage the rat about half as often as if i orbit at normal speed... but I can't tell if drones have the same thing going on.
Anyway ta. Webifier binned off!
For L1s and Light Drones, your Drones shouldn't have any trouble hitting the mission rats, so the webber's not really necessary, especially if you're having Cap issues.
Good for you for having Drone Navigation V already. I don't even have that yet, though it's on my to-do list as Heavy Drones are unbearably slow. I usually keep a Navigation Computer on my Myrmidon for easier mission where I won't need the extra Cap from a 3rd recharger to keep up my tank.
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