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Azorean
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2007.01.22 17:01:00 -
[1]
Hi, as the subject implies I want to know if making some large investments on your ships is worth it or rather a stupid way of spending your ISK. Is it really justifiable to have letÆs sayà a Vindicator with faction expensive fittings, total investment around 3bill and take it to wage war in 0.0 space? I gave you the Vindicator as an example there are as you all know countless others, all really expensive investments. Having asked that I want to find out what would be as an overall consensus opinion, the best Ship/Fitting(s) for 0.0 space, it has to be ready for the most part PVP but also for those PVE occasional encounters, IÆm sort of new to EVE but have come to love my Navy Issue Raven, is she capable of holding its own under such conditions?
Regards. Azorean
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Beef Hardslab
The 5 Amigo's LLC.
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Posted - 2007.01.22 17:09:00 -
[2]
I wouldn't fly a Navy anything in 0.0 unless you are deep in alliance territory, have good intel, and watch local like a damn hawk. On top of that, me personally anyway, I would also have a cloak equipped and some nice safespots.
As far as pvp goes, unless you make a bil or so profit a week and can replace your Navy Raven at the drop of a hat that often, I sure as hell wouldn't fly it in pvp. You will ALWAYS be primary, well unless some other crazy bastard is in a more expensive faction ship.
Now, there are some less costly faction modules that are nice to put on pvp ships. They can give a nice edge for a bit of risk. Faction hardeners, warp disruptors, etc.. Why there should be a breathalyzer to login to Eve:
Originally by: Alliaanna Dalaii Podding my own alt in a gatecamp while drunk, he was carrying a hauler full of tech II goods, Oops.
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Ragna Dayton
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Posted - 2007.01.22 17:11:00 -
[3]
It would be worth it if you have the skills to use it, and can guarantee that you will only be getting into fights you can win. The moment any large fleet battle occurs, and they realise you are in a faction ship you will almost certainly be called primary and most like get ganked.
The adage 'never fly what you can't afford to lose' applies. If you can afford to lose a 3 billion isk ship then by all means fly it. However mostly ships like that are used by Mission runners or for 0.0 PvE in backwater systems deep in alliance territory where there is little or no risk of pirates. Or by people with so much isk it doesn't actually matter if they lose it or not.
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Malicious Afterthought
Suffoco Noctis Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2007.01.22 17:12:00 -
[4]
If you can afford to lose it, and like the shininess of it, go for it. I like to look at it this way:
If I can make a ship last long enough for the insurance to run out, then that's a minor miracle.
Knowing that this is unlikely to happen, I will try to keep it in one piece for as long as possible. To do this I will put the best stuff on it I can afford to, and then forget the cost right away as it's going to get blown up at some point. And the shiny things make a difference in delaying that explosion.
When the inevitable does happen, imagine how happy someone will be when looting the wreck.
To conclude, shiny things make a) you happy as you have shiny things that are good and make the ship better at not exploding b) makes someone else happy when the ship does explode as then they have shiny things.
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Serret Nevets
Puppets on Steroids Curse Alliance
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Posted - 2007.01.22 17:18:00 -
[5]
Azorean,
There is no other computer game out there that will get your heart racing like when you have a 1 billion isk faction fitted ship on the line in 0.0 space. Your brow will be very wet from sweat when you've killed or have been killed. It's a game buddy. Just go out and do it. The thrill is what you're looking for, isn't it! Fit it up with all the top notch stuff you can find and go into battle! You'll get addicted quick.
Spanking or being spanked... it's up to you. |
Azorean
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2007.01.22 17:27:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Serret Nevets Azorean,
There is no other computer game out there that will get your heart racing like when you have a 1 billion isk faction fitted ship on the line in 0.0 space. Your brow will be very wet from sweat when you've killed or have been killed. It's a game buddy. Just go out and do it. The thrill is what you're looking for, isn't it! Fit it up with all the top notch stuff you can find and go into battle! You'll get addicted quick.
That is a nice way to put it so all in all... its not worth it to spend billions of ISK and go to 0.0...? just as you so rightfully put it a way to get a fix
PS: Thank you all for the reply's
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Hesod Adee
Bright New Dawn Free Trade Coalition
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Posted - 2007.01.22 18:56:00 -
[7]
Generally the more expensive variants of a ship/module have better stats. But I've seen some modules being sold on the market for much cheaper than modules which were equal or worse in all stats. So always look through the stats on things when your deciding which variant to buy.
As always, sonly buy what you can afford to lose, as you will lose it eventually. -----------------
My door is always open, just don't go in. |
Nylian
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.01.22 20:24:00 -
[8]
Is it worth it? I don't really think so. But hey, if you can make 3b+ a week then absolutley.
I have an ashimmu, just because I think they're beautiful ships... and I DO get an awesome rush out of blowin' people up in my faction ship, however I don't do it because it's "worth it" I do it for the novelty more than anything else.
Just my two isk. :) ________________________________________________
In the great search for perfection, one must be imperfect. |
Max Godsnottlingson
Amarr Freelancing Corp Confederation of Independent Corporations
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Posted - 2007.01.22 23:50:00 -
[9]
I used a heavily faction fitted Proph for ratting in 0.0, Was probably the most expensive BC in Eve *grins* with about 1/2 a bills worth of kit fitted. But I ratted in an end system which was in the backside of nowhere and it never left that system unless it was absolutly safe to do so, and that was usually just to dock about 4j away to get a hauler to empty my cans For PvP and especially war. I'd never use a faction anything. Cheap and cheerful is teh rule there. Anybody who does PvP will tell you, no matter how good you think you, or your set up is, you will eventually loose it.
The way I see it is.When I'm ratting I'm hunting. to hunt real life I'd use something like a Dragonov 7.62 rifle which is molded and tailored to fit me perfectly. In war, a good Belgium FN or M-16 will do me just as well for a fraction of the cost!
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Vasiliyan
PAX Interstellar Services Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2007.01.23 03:13:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Azorean IÆm sort of new to EVE ... Navy Issue Raven
O RLY?
It all depends on how well you're set up to make ISK to replace it. There is nothing so expensive that it cannot be killed; CYVOK's Titan is the crowning example of this. There are large elements of skill and luck in PvP; I'd suggest flying a few regular Ravens before going out in a CNR.
A faction ship in 0.0 is a big shiny target that will draw a crowd, who will kill you hoping to loot valuable faction modules, unless you're really good at evasion and have a scout.
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Asestorian
Minmatar Dark Centuri Inc. Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.01.23 13:25:00 -
[11]
In my opinion, yes it is entirely worth it to take a faction ship to 0.0.
But there are a few things that you should have before you do so:
The skills to fit it perfectly.
The experience to fly it to its full potential.
A faction ship can be serious pwnage in PvP situations, but you have to know what you're doing with it, otherwise its just a big, juicy, expensive target. Its probably best to try out doing everything in a standard Raven with standard fittings first, getting used to how everything works and how to survive in 0.0 in a battleship.
But if you don't have that experience, and don't have those perfect skills, then it isn't worth it at all. And as you say you are a newer player, I doubt that you have the needed things to make faction/officer stuff worth your investment in PvP situations.
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Azorean
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2007.01.23 13:37:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Asestorian In my opinion, yes it is entirely worth it to take a faction ship to 0.0.
But there are a few things that you should have before you do so:
The skills to fit it perfectly.
The experience to fly it to its full potential.
A faction ship can be serious pwnage in PvP situations, but you have to know what you're doing with it, otherwise its just a big, juicy, expensive target. Its probably best to try out doing everything in a standard Raven with standard fittings first, getting used to how everything works and how to survive in 0.0 in a battleship.
But if you don't have that experience, and don't have those perfect skills, then it isn't worth it at all. And as you say you are a newer player, I doubt that you have the needed things to make faction/officer stuff worth your investment in PvP situations.
Thank you for your reply, could you tell me what skills are needed to be in perfect condition for use of BS in 0.0 ?
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Acidictadpole
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Posted - 2007.01.23 14:15:00 -
[13]
I'de say it's relatively on par with real life.
Something that is very expensive is not always the best bang for your buck.
On top of that, the market systems have a possibility of making things priced at a price nowhere near what they are worth. In most cases, t2 > t1 (MOST, not all, cases), and in all cases $t2 > $t1 ($ = cost). What you need to work out, and it's different for every module, and different for every player, is whether spending an additional million ISK or something is worth that 3% accuracy or 100 shields (estimates).
Some people go fully t1 fits to completely to reduce cost of losing it. I love doing this myself because it allows you practically to lose an entire fleet for the price of a t2 fitted interceptor or interdictor.
Again, it's almost entirely up to what the player puts his value into. If you like additional shields a lot, maybe the extra money for a T2 extender is worth it. Or if you like using turrets a lot, and hate missing; then the 3% accuracy will be very useful.
So, basically more money will get you better items 90% of the time, (market fluctuations accounting for other) but it's the player and his personality that decides whether it is actually better to spend the additional money or not.
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Cabadrin
Caldari Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.01.23 14:35:00 -
[14]
What skills to use with a battleship in 0.0 ...
Primary skills to 4 or 5 - preferably 5. Large (weapon) to 4 The skills to fit a decent tank (hardeners and repairers) ECM skills (if you like them) Drones!
But to be perfectly honest, there are no templates. You fly with what you have. I didn't fly a battleship regularly until I'd been playing a year. I stilldon't fly battleships except when NPCing or in fleet operations;most of the time I'm in an interceptor or elite cruiser. You should fly what you want to fly, and fly it well. You can ahve just as much fun, and be fairly lethal,in any ship in the game (barring some frigates).
Keep this in mind, though: there's safety in numbers. I've taken on battleships in elite cruisers before (arazu with dampeners, ishtar with ecm) but I always feel better with a wingman or two. The same applies to poeple you're fighting against - your faction battleship may be godly in a 1v1, but smack two ecm dominixes and you might find yourself going down fast. _______________________________________________
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Asestorian
Minmatar Dark Centuri Inc. Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.01.23 14:35:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Azorean Thank you for your reply, could you tell me what skills are needed to be in perfect condition for use of BS in 0.0 ?
Well, there's a lot of level 5s, some I can think of off the top of my head to make sure you have.
Electronics 5 Engineering 5 Weapon Upgrades 5 Advanced Weapon Upgrades 4/5 (level 5 is a long skill so unless you really need it you don't have to get it) Tech II Cruise/Torps, with the specialisation skills at 4/5 Missile Support at 4/5 Navigation 5 with other navigation skills at 4/5 (for speed and aligning etc) Tanking skills at 5 (Shield operation etc, including the shield compensation skills I guess) Cap skills at 5 (Energy Management, Energy Systems Operation) Caldari Battleship 4/5
You may be a shield tanker but you will want some skills in mechanic, specifically the ones that give you extra armour HP (more of a buffer to get your tank back up if needed)
You'll also be wanting at least some tech II medium drones so:
Drones 5 Scout Drone Operation 5 Drone Interfacing 4/5 Amarr/Minmatar/Caldari/Gallente Drone spec skills at 3/4 Other drone support skills at 3/4 Heavy Drones 4 maybe
You'll also be wanted skills like Targeting and Long Range Targeting, maybe Target Painters or other EW modules, so you want to be getting the skills for that at around 4 too.
You may also want implants like a full HG Crystal set, so Cybernetics 5 is a must for that whole set (and a load of cash too XD)
There are likely other skills that you may want, so it will take a while, but once you have everything you need, with some work you may also have the needed experience to make it worthwhile too
In general its often best to start by looking at the set-up that you would like to fit to the ship, then work out what the minimum skills that you would need to have to fit that (including fitting skills etc) and work on getting them. Then work on getting those up to around 4 at least. Then look at what skills help that set-up, and get them to at least 4. Slowly bringing everything to 5 over time to become pwn in that ship. Or something like that anyway. Like I said before, its a lot of training and time to get to a decent standard, especially in battleships of any kind. I also suggest getting some PvP experience in frigates or cruisers, moving to battlecruisers then battleships.
Hope this helps you a little.
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Azorean
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2007.01.23 15:38:00 -
[16]
Great stuff you guys... Acidictadpole, very mature observation and right on the money.
Cabadrin, realistic advice and good strategy.
Asestorian, really nice planner and it shows that I'm really way far from getting there but hey...will still be here in one year, so by then will be closer to all that
Thank you all, can't thank you enough.
Regards. Azorean
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Jowhar Draghi
Minmatar Privateers Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.01.23 19:30:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Malicious Afterthought If you can afford to lose it, and like the shininess of it, go for it. I like to look at it this way:
If I can make a ship last long enough for the insurance to run out, then that's a minor miracle.
Knowing that this is unlikely to happen, I will try to keep it in one piece for as long as possible. To do this I will put the best stuff on it I can afford to, and then forget the cost right away as it's going to get blown up at some point. And the shiny things make a difference in delaying that explosion.
When the inevitable does happen, imagine how happy someone will be when looting the wreck.
To conclude, shiny things make a) you happy as you have shiny things that are good and make the ship better at not exploding b) makes someone else happy when the ship does explode as then they have shiny things.
That is the best way of showing pilots how to handle loss I have yet seen on the boards.
-- Gate Gate Pāragate Pārasamgate, Bodhi svāhā
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Rachen Mysuna
Brotherhood of Polar Equation
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Posted - 2007.01.23 23:09:00 -
[18]
ofc you need the lastest bling and ****
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Strel Samodelkin
Caldari Nationalist Party
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Posted - 2007.01.24 00:35:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Beef Hardslab I wouldn't fly a Navy anything in 0.0 unless you are deep in alliance territory, have good intel, and watch local like a damn hawk. On top of that, me personally anyway, I would also have a cloak equipped and some nice safespots.
As far as pvp goes, unless you make a bil or so profit a week and can replace your Navy Raven at the drop of a hat that often, I sure as hell wouldn't fly it in pvp. You will ALWAYS be primary, well unless some other crazy bastard is in a more expensive faction ship.
Now, there are some less costly faction modules that are nice to put on pvp ships. They can give a nice edge for a bit of risk. Faction hardeners, warp disruptors, etc..
Either that or you're really good at pulling the plug from your router. That works better.
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Cipher7
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Posted - 2007.01.24 02:08:00 -
[20]
Generally the most expensive stuff IS the best, however subject to the law of diminishing returns.
You get the most bang for the buck out of cheap t1 ships and items.
You can always upgrade to a better ship and better modules and better ammo, but always you will be paying large sums for tiny increments of performance.
A Ferrari is marginally faster than a Mustang, but you are paying 5-10x the cost.
If you have an average daily income of 300m, you can afford to buy Navy vessels and t2 parts and use it for PVP.
If you have an average daily income of 5m, you better be driving the proverbial Mustang.
Golden Rule : Fly ONLY what you can afford to lose.
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Azorean
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2007.01.24 03:25:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Strel Samodelkin
Either that or you're really good at pulling the plug from your router. That works better.
What do you mean by that??
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Tulisin Dragonflame
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Posted - 2007.01.24 07:22:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Azorean
Originally by: Strel Samodelkin
Either that or you're really good at pulling the plug from your router. That works better.
What do you mean by that??
The anti-disconnect failsafes in the game mean that you can get away from a lot of situations by cheaply faking a disconnect.
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Monde
Gallente Praetorian Corporation
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Posted - 2007.01.24 10:15:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Tulisin Dragonflame
The anti-disconnect failsafes in the game mean that you can get away from a lot of situations by cheaply faking a disconnect.
Or just move to Asia. Your ISP provides you with this service free of charge at the moment. Although you don't get to decide when or how often.
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Azorean
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2007.01.24 17:40:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Tulisin Dragonflame
The anti-disconnect failsafes in the game mean that you can get away from a lot of situations by cheaply faking a disconnect.
You mean if I get disconnected when in trouble that I go safe? Cause this happen to me at one time and I got killed anyway.
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Asestorian
Minmatar Dark Centuri Inc. Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.01.24 21:57:00 -
[25]
There are things called timers when you log off/disconnect, and they work something like this:
If you have not aggressed anyone, then your ship will warp away and disappear 2 minutes later.
If you have aggressed someone, then your ship will warp away and disappear 15 minutes later, giving plenty of time for you to be probed and killed while sitting there.
If you are warp scrambled, you will not warp off, but you will still disappear 2 or 15 minutes later depending on if you attacked back or not, assuming your ship survives that long anyway.
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