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Empyre
Domestic Reform
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Posted - 2007.01.19 17:35:00 -
[31]
Don't pay. Period. Look at it this way.. You were minding your own business when someone came along and figured they could put a little pressure on you and you'd give them a little cash. This is thuggery.
So when anyone ransoms, whether at the pilot or corp/alliance level, why would you give them exactly what they want PLUS the power to then dictate how you operate in the future.
Like others have said, don't give yourself the rep of paying to make trouble go away.. eve has a LOT more people like this than these guys.
Besides, there are much more productive uses of 500mil ISK. Heck, move somewhere else temporarily until the war is over, buy a few BSs with the money and rat somewhere in 0.0. At least then you could make some money and then who cares if you lose the ships, it would have been money gone if you had paid anyway.
The options are limitless.. but paying someone who thinks they deserve your money for nothing should NEVER be an option.
People argue when their personal views are at odds, whereas a debate is a more formal method of analyzing the angles of an issue. |
Mattduk
Gallente Universal Army
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Posted - 2007.01.19 17:40:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Mattduk on 19/01/2007 17:37:21
Originally by: evistin We are fighting, we are not weaklings, but we are not super pvpers either.
I rather they blow up 500 million isk in equipement then pay them the 500 million isk.
That's the spirit. :)
In my time in this game, my corp has been held to randsom a few times. We have never paid, and will never pay. If you pay them now, you are stamping a big sign on your foreheads for other such corps to do the same thing to you.
Take a stand now, one way or another, but do not let them get what they are after, whether that is kills, or isk. Deprive them of their fun and I guarantee they will be looking for new peeps to grief soon enough.
Good luck with it.
Kind regards Mattduk
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dailyhazard
Caldari Unauthorised.
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Posted - 2007.01.19 17:42:00 -
[33]
Mail me ingame. Im gonna be bored for a few weeks, so i will come help you out and give you advise and stuff. This is one of my nice moments, use it wisely ;)
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Nai Ling
Diligent Souls
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Posted - 2007.01.19 17:43:00 -
[34]
Originally by: evistin
All members in my corp agree we will not pay up the 500 million isk they are asking for.
I have caught their members lie to me already once, and their ceo does not reinforce the image that he is honorable. He also seems to lack some control over his members. He said no smack talk, but his guys do such things still.
hehe.. That reminds me of a war I had when I first joined EVE a little over a year ago. The corp war dec'd both corporations I was in (merger), and both corps refused to pay the 500M ISK ransom to stop the war. Partly, because we were having fun, and partly because they didn't work hard enough to earn that ransom.
Eventually, we adopted the idea that we had to **** them off so much that they wouldn't pay for the war dec anymore. Each Corp had it's own way of doing this. One scattered. Each member to a different region/constellation. The further away from the headquarters, the better. If they can't find you, they can't kill you, which makes it a boring play session for them. (hehe) The other corp would just dock when they entered local. Not out of fear, but for the same reasons. No kills = boring.
You need to figure out what you want to do. If you want to have fun and fight, do just that. If you just want the war dec to be over, find out a way to make the war dec stop by whatever means possible. Merc Contracts, pacifism, scatter the corp, etc. Make it more of a hassle for them to fight you. If they get no enjoyment out of you, they will go away. They may come back later, but that's just a risk you take in EVE. _____________________________________________
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Helganstandt
Finis Lumen The SUdden Death Squad
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Posted - 2007.01.19 17:46:00 -
[35]
I personally think it's a load of bull**** that word will get out that you're easy targets if you pay. The truth of the matter is, these guys saw you on a mining op or got blown up by a POS you had, could have been any reason to be honest, and they were just looking for some easy ganks. The 500 mil is just to give the war a sort of legitimacy, and to see if you're actually willing to not fight for that much.
There seems to be some unfounded paranoia that every griefer corp out there will suddenly hone in on your ability to pay a single ransom attempt and start war dec'ing you left and right, and I seriously doubt that's the case. Griefer corps aren't in it for the money, they're in it for the ganks, and to have some fun. 500 mil doesn't split very well even among 5 people for a week's work. Let alone 10 or 20.
You take away that fun, they'll move on to better targets. My suggestion is that unless you're capable of hiring a proper mercenary outfit, or fending them off yourselves, you guys should just spread out across different regions for a few weeks.
But it looks like you guys already made up your mind. You said you guys would rather lose the money than give it to them, so why exactly are you bothering to ask us? Seems a little pointless doesn't it? It wouldn't matter if they're trustworthy or not if you had no intention of paying them in the first place.
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kublai
TunDraGon
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Posted - 2007.01.19 18:07:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Eskona Runningstar Edited by: Eskona Runningstar on 19/01/2007 17:07:08 High-sec merc contracts are fairly cheap, and thats all that is needed to bolster the high-sec PvP capability of the corp. Its not about going out into low-sec or 0.0 to take out pirate capitals, its about letting them come into high-sec in their expensive ships and tearing them apart.
The point I made still stands, though: If you pay once, you will get more payment requests, either from the same people or from others - which makes it irrelevant if the current opponents are trustworthy or not.
You want the merc's to bodyguard in high sec, or attack the agressing corp?
The agressing corp will most likely have it's hq in low sec.
Now, these aren't your average "LOOK MOMMY I HAZ RAVEN" players, you'll need good merc's to take them out, and i'm willing to bet they'll kill a merc or ten aswell.
If you find merc's willing to do this cheap, then they are either idiots or VERY kind
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Nigel Carruthers
Black Watch Regiment
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Posted - 2007.01.19 18:22:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Helganstandt I personally think it's a load of bull**** that word will get out that you're easy targets if you pay. The truth of the matter is, these guys saw you on a mining op or got blown up by a POS you had, could have been any reason to be honest, and they were just looking for some easy ganks. The 500 mil is just to give the war a sort of legitimacy, and to see if you're actually willing to not fight for that much.
There seems to be some unfounded paranoia that every griefer corp out there will suddenly hone in on your ability to pay a single ransom attempt and start war dec'ing you left and right, and I seriously doubt that's the case. Griefer corps aren't in it for the money, they're in it for the ganks, and to have some fun. 500 mil doesn't split very well even among 5 people for a week's work. Let alone 10 or 20.
You take away that fun, they'll move on to better targets. My suggestion is that unless you're capable of hiring a proper mercenary outfit, or fending them off yourselves, you guys should just spread out across different regions for a few weeks.
But it looks like you guys already made up your mind. You said you guys would rather lose the money than give it to them, so why exactly are you bothering to ask us? Seems a little pointless doesn't it? It wouldn't matter if they're trustworthy or not if you had no intention of paying them in the first place.
nullnullnull
By all Means for GOD sake Don't ask advice here. You are better Off asking in the INGAME help channel than asking advice here. These Forum trolls self esteem is so shot they have to belittle people constantly.(watch the smack I get for calliung the kettle black. The difference is. In 2 years of Eve this is probably my 3rd post total)
Eve the game is a great game. The Forums are not a reflection of the game THANK GOD!!!! If you need a hand INGAME against someone ransoming you. My Tiny corp will gladly help. Evemail me ingame we are not the best PVP'ers but we do know our EW and have some decent pilots.
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ScreamingLord Sutch
Hand in Mouth
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Posted - 2007.01.19 18:36:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Nigel Carruthers
Originally by: Helganstandt I personally think it's a load of bull**** that word will get out that you're easy targets if you pay. The truth of the matter is, these guys saw you on a mining op or got blown up by a POS you had, could have been any reason to be honest, and they were just looking for some easy ganks. The 500 mil is just to give the war a sort of legitimacy, and to see if you're actually willing to not fight for that much.
There seems to be some unfounded paranoia that every griefer corp out there will suddenly hone in on your ability to pay a single ransom attempt and start war dec'ing you left and right, and I seriously doubt that's the case. Griefer corps aren't in it for the money, they're in it for the ganks, and to have some fun. 500 mil doesn't split very well even among 5 people for a week's work. Let alone 10 or 20.
You take away that fun, they'll move on to better targets. My suggestion is that unless you're capable of hiring a proper mercenary outfit, or fending them off yourselves, you guys should just spread out across different regions for a few weeks.
But it looks like you guys already made up your mind. You said you guys would rather lose the money than give it to them, so why exactly are you bothering to ask us? Seems a little pointless doesn't it? It wouldn't matter if they're trustworthy or not if you had no intention of paying them in the first place.
nullnullnull
By all Means for GOD sake Don't ask advice here. You are better Off asking in the INGAME help channel than asking advice here. These Forum trolls self esteem is so shot they have to belittle people constantly.(watch the smack I get for calliung the kettle black. The difference is. In 2 years of Eve this is probably my 3rd post total)
Eve the game is a great game. The Forums are not a reflection of the game THANK GOD!!!! If you need a hand INGAME against someone ransoming you. My Tiny corp will gladly help. Evemail me ingame we are not the best PVP'ers but we do know our EW and have some decent pilots.
Actually, this is a good tactic. When the corp is tightly packed into a few systems it's like shooting fish in a barrel and theres always that expectation of another target around the corner to keep you interested.
When the target corp spreads out it becomes a chore to run a locator and then move 15 jumps to find the person in a station afk etc etc.
Dont discount the amount of time you can waste doing this and the effect it can have on the aggressing corp. It won't be long before they look for more "fun" targets.
So Mrnullnullnull, you see, it can be a good tactic, perhaps not in all circumstances but it's an option. I read the advice quoted and thought it was about the best I saw in the thread. Accurate, objective and short. You highlighting it and trashing it proves you have little experience.
Finally, what the hell is with the word "griefer"? It's as annoying as "toon".
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Helganstandt
Finis Lumen The SUdden Death Squad
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Posted - 2007.01.19 18:44:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Nigel Carruthers
nullnullnull
By all Means for GOD sake Don't ask advice here. You are better Off asking in the INGAME help channel than asking advice here. These Forum trolls self esteem is so shot they have to belittle people constantly.(watch the smack I get for calliung the kettle black. The difference is. In 2 years of Eve this is probably my 3rd post total)
Eve the game is a great game. The Forums are not a reflection of the game THANK GOD!!!! If you need a hand INGAME against someone ransoming you. My Tiny corp will gladly help. Evemail me ingame we are not the best PVP'ers but we do know our EW and have some decent pilots.
Which part of my post don't you agree with? All of it? I would at least like to know why you don't think it has any relevance or offers any helpful solutions. If you're trying to convince the OP otherwise, maybe offer an alternative suggestion other than "The forums suck, and none of these guys know what they're talking about."
I'm just talking from experience because I used to be the corp that war dec'd targets for fun, and asked for ransoms. And that was the way people got rid of our war decs.
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Laythun
Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2007.01.19 18:48:00 -
[40]
Originally by: dailyhazard Mail me ingame. Im gonna be bored for a few weeks, so i will come help you out and give you advise and stuff. This is one of my nice moments, use it wisely ;)
damn u know i woulda been down for that ****. griefing griefers4tw
CEI's own Undercover Brother [MIA] It's great being Amarr, aint it?Ö
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superboms
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Posted - 2007.01.19 19:34:00 -
[41]
Originally by: kublai Edited by: kublai on 19/01/2007 16:25:02
As I know the people you're talking about here, let me break it down for you.
1. They will let you go after you pay 2. They will not destroy 500 million in loot, they will destroy ALOT more 3. Your corporation cannot fight back without mercenary help 4. No really, a self defence guide won't help against them 5. You will haveto pay well over 1 billion to have anyone with brains war decc them, and it will require a small capital fleet deployment <--expensive
Hope i've been a help, do yourselves a favour and cough up the ISK
And that being said, TunDraGon is a piracy corp afaik... She's prolly just coughting up some bull**** to help out her pirate friends...
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kublai
TunDraGon
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Posted - 2007.01.19 21:27:00 -
[42]
Originally by: superboms
Originally by: kublai Edited by: kublai on 19/01/2007 16:25:02
As I know the people you're talking about here, let me break it down for you.
1. They will let you go after you pay 2. They will not destroy 500 million in loot, they will destroy ALOT more 3. Your corporation cannot fight back without mercenary help 4. No really, a self defence guide won't help against them 5. You will haveto pay well over 1 billion to have anyone with brains war decc them, and it will require a small capital fleet deployment <--expensive
Hope i've been a help, do yourselves a favour and cough up the ISK
And that being said, TunDraGon is a piracy corp afaik... She's prolly just coughting up some bull**** to help out her pirate friends...
TunDraGon is not a pirate corporation.
But hey, feel free to go after them, they'll love more targets ;)
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Shzanzia
Love and Rockets
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Posted - 2007.01.19 21:29:00 -
[43]
Pay nothing, give nothing, offer nothing.
How you respond to this threat will shape your corp for the rest of its life. Respond with force, and win or lose your corp earns respect and honor.
End this war with your guns ablaze and your honor intact...... not on your knees paying ransom and groveling like a dog.
You owe it to your corp to show them their leadership has backbone.
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Cheng Kung
Amarr Sanguine Legion
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Posted - 2007.01.19 21:31:00 -
[44]
We will help you out for 600 mil.
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Farrellus Cameron
Sturmgrenadier Inc R i s e
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Posted - 2007.01.19 21:51:00 -
[45]
Don't trust them. You have no reason to and, to be blunt, you should learn how to handle such things on your own. There are a lot of corps that do this kind of thing and so it can just keep happening over and over. If you really don't want to worry about defending yourself and just want it over with, your money would be better spent hiring a mercenary corp to deal with them. ----------------------------------------------------
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evistin
Multiverse Corporation
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Posted - 2007.01.20 09:01:00 -
[46]
Edited by: evistin on 20/01/2007 08:59:24 It seems Blood Sweat and Tears the corp who war dec my corp are now using logoffski tactics, according to one of my members.
Fair enough I loose ships and parts in a war, but would you really respect an enemy that uses logoffski tactic?
They claim system crash, so after several hrs of play, several battles the ONLY battle you were losing was the same time you crashed? A little hard for me to believe. -----------
Management and Leadership |
gfldex
Gallente Dark-Rising Fallen Souls
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Posted - 2007.01.20 09:45:00 -
[47]
Edited by: gfldex on 20/01/2007 09:45:14
Originally by: evistin
It seems Blood Sweat and Tears the corp who war dec my corp are now using logoffski tactics, according to one of my members.
Please describe exactly what happened in detail. If you dont a lot ppl will see your post as blunt propaganda.
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Darth Maule
Pitch Black Incorporated Mordus Angels
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Posted - 2007.01.20 10:47:00 -
[48]
Edited by: Darth Maule on 20/01/2007 10:45:24 Either fight , stay docked. or hire mercs. Paying is not a option.(unless you are paying mercs), If you have to pay you might as well get something for your money.
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gfldex
Gallente Dark-Rising Fallen Souls
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Posted - 2007.01.20 10:49:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Darth Maule Edited by: Darth Maule on 20/01/2007 10:45:01 Either fight , stay docked. or hire mercs. Paying is not a option.(unless you are paying mercs), If you have to pay you might as well get something for your money.
Mercs can take the money and do nothing. It may not even be their fault. RL can be tricky.
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Del369
Caldari Office linebackers
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Posted - 2007.01.20 12:49:00 -
[50]
Edited by: Del369 on 20/01/2007 12:52:37 Pay nothing, consider it vital on the job training, if you spend 500mil on yourselves fighting the war consider it money well spent. Also don't the Privateers take on High sec war contracts ? iirc all you have to do is pay 10mil isk per week to cover the cost of the war dec (if they're a Corp that is and not an Alliance) and wasn't there a post in one of these Alliance Forums a few weeks ago from an ex AXE or ASCN Corp that was offering free empire war decs ?
*edit and as if by magic http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=445094 and look up the ASCN/AXE link and have them dec them to, make their lives a misery
Originally by: Wrangler That is an outright lie! We don't want to discriminate anyone! We want *both* anti-social *and* social players to grief each other!
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IntegralHellsing
Gallente The Raven Warriors
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Posted - 2007.01.20 13:37:00 -
[51]
don't ever give in to them. 500m for a war dec clearance? pfff. i'd rather let them blow my ships and not get a single decent loot.
just go out in mass gang and pwn their t2 gear ships one by one. there's nothing like swarm of cruisers and frigates that can scare an opponent.
in ISK wise, they will lose much more for every t2 gear ship you destroy. 20 cruisers against 1 t2 gear battleship/bc/t2 ships. in ISK wise you win.
don't ever give up. let them face the wrath ------------------------------
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War Machine
Murini Ice Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.01.20 13:40:00 -
[52]
Spend the 500million ISK they are demanding on Frigates.
Fight back.
You won't regret it.
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Wwhisper
Gallente Tyrell Corp INTERDICTION
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Posted - 2007.01.20 14:56:00 -
[53]
Originally by: evistin I apologize, the question was how would a corp like this prove their trust that they would honor their word.
You can't. The fact is, pirates by their very nature are untrustworty. There may be elements within the corp that fancy themselves honorable pirates, but in the long run pirates or untameable. You can talk to one, but he can't keep a leash on the others. They will do what they want, with or without permission. I have been in this game nearly two year, and have yet to meet a group of pirates that are trustworty.
Some questions for you. What system is this in and what is the name of the pirate group?
------------------------------- Tactical Smack-Talker I've taken my pills today, have you? |
Sean Dillon
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2007.01.20 15:08:00 -
[54]
For 500 million you can hire 3 cheap merc corps for a week. Its a damn better investment then into giving it as protection money.
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Tarphon
Caldari Realm of Majestic Empire
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Posted - 2007.01.20 15:20:00 -
[55]
Originally by: kublai
As I know the people you're talking about here, let me break it down for you.
1. They will let you go after you pay 2. They will not destroy 500 million in loot, they will destroy ALOT more 3. Your corporation cannot fight back without mercenary help 4. No really, a self defence guide won't help against them 5. You will haveto pay well over 1 billion to have anyone with brains war decc them, and it will require a small capital fleet deployment <--expensive
Hope i've been a help, do yourselves a favour and cough up the ISK
LMAO no wait... ROFLMFAO
Griefer corp, if they were that uber they would attack someone other than noob corps. __________________________________
ISD broke my sig :( |
Nastratu
Minmatar Serefon Creatin
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Posted - 2007.01.20 16:36:00 -
[56]
If they are an established corp, not populated by alts, they will care about their reputation. And if they do not honour this agreement, you can always post about it here on the forums. It will make a lot of pirates and other ransoming pvp corps look down on them because they will just make ransoming business more difficult for everyone else.
I do not think that after that they'll go and tell everyone about how they extracted money from you. Because once again that is bad for their business. Other corps migth hear about it and not pay up when they in turn are being ransomed. So it would make little sense for them to spread any information of the kind. To the contrary, they better keep quiet about about any such transaction.
My advice is, of course, to not pay. And not because their trustworthiness is an issue. It makes sense to pay a reasonable ransom to a pirate. In this case, the pirate will kill you with 100% guarantee if you do not pay. Any attempts to fight back have already failed if you are at the stage of being ransomed. They have your ship/pod scrambled and you cannot log off either. Same is not true with a war. You can fight back, you can possibly win, you can keep docked, you can quit playing for some time, you can wear them out with boredom, you can scatter or even disband, you can hire some mercs on their case, you can enter an alliance (in which case they will start paying 50 mil a week for the war) or even create one of your own (requires about 1 bil ISK though). Many different possibilities here.
If you decide to engage them on your own, my advice would be to get voice communication and plan your battles in advance. Lack of organization costs in ships and increases their efficiency. Also visit their killboard and see what they fly and how they outfit their ships.
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Ffaide
Trinity Nova
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Posted - 2007.01.20 16:50:00 -
[57]
I have to agree with those that have posted here. The question is not wether or not this corporation is going to be trustworthy, but wether or not you are going to be the kind of corporation that folds to that kind of pressure or not. Yes, pride is expensive, but in many cases its worth every penny.
reinvesting your cash into a merc corp may be a viable alternative. You could also take your mates over to the Test Server, ships are cheap and plentiful, and hone your PVP skills. This is NOT that same as real PVP, but its a method to hammer out some of the basics. Still, organization, team work and coordination are powerful weapons against any foe.
So, I would say fight. Learn from your losses, and take this for the opportunity that it is; to become capable PVPers yourself. As someone said earlier, mark yourself as a sheep, and you better be prepared to be shorn often <fantastic statement, by the way>.
Luck in battle
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Helganstandt
Finis Lumen The SUdden Death Squad
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Posted - 2007.01.20 17:24:00 -
[58]
I certainly hope you guys are winning your engagements. If you're losing, the war dec is never going to go away until you're members either start winning all the time, or stop fighting and your aggressors get bored. Several corps I used to be at war with ended up basically disbanding because their leadership was unwilling to accept the facts that their members were incapable of PVPing at our level, and eventually decided to form other corps.
Oh, we war dec'd those corps too.
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Leikeze Mrotserif
Blood Sweat and Tears
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Posted - 2007.01.20 20:18:00 -
[59]
Woe is me for I am such a bad person. The suggestion for payment was withdrawn last night and replaced with a good old fashioned 'fight and thats it'.
In regards to what i saw about logoffski.. as the story goes my corpmate crashed while engaging one of your buddies. No harm done tho as when he logged on the killmail for the guy was sitting right there. Offline killing 4tw?
Flame away ladies... flame away.. -------
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Spaja Saist
Gallente Void Engineers
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Posted - 2007.01.20 22:32:00 -
[60]
Originally by: kublai Edited by: kublai on 19/01/2007 16:25:02
Originally by: evistin Edited by: evistin on 19/01/2007 15:15:07 Edited by: evistin on 19/01/2007 15:14:44 My corp is at war with a corp called Blood Sweat and Tears,
They are a dedicated PVP corp, who war decs corps for ransom cash, or Protection money or disbandedment.
Now while my war with them is ongoing, I come to ask how likely these corps will keep their word.
From my personal experience , they technically do. Example: Promises Corp X withdraws the war for 10 isk, creates corp y and keep the war going. Kept their word in all technicality.
All members in my corp agree we will not pay up the 500 million isk they are asking for.
They went through the usual I am different from all the previous corps that attacked us, we honor our word, we can even show you pass contacts, etc etc.
I have caught their members lie to me already once, and their ceo does not reinforce the image that he is honorable. He also seems to lack some control over his members. He said no smack talk, but his guys do such things still.
How do I know this Corp can be trusted?
As I know the people you're talking about here, let me break it down for you.
1. They will let you go after you pay 2. They will not destroy 500 million in loot, they will destroy ALOT more 3. Your corporation cannot fight back without mercenary help 4. No really, a self defence guide won't help against them 5. You will haveto pay well over 1 billion to have anyone with brains war decc them, and it will require a small capital fleet deployment <--expensive
Hope i've been a help, do yourselves a favour and cough up the ISK
Don't listen to this *******. He's obviously in league with them. Fight back or disband your corp. See how the griefers like that tactic.
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