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DarkFenix
Caldari Pilots From Honour
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Posted - 2007.01.19 11:12:00 -
[61]
Indeed, take a trip towards low sec or 0.0. People will blow you up. They won't necessarily blow you up for loot or profit or anything. It will be for fun. For their own enjoyment, nothing more. Under certain definitions, this could be called griefing. Why is it possible? The victim chose to fly into unregulated space.
You're getting your ore popped, not for profit but so someone can get their kicks from it (though it could also be industrial sabotage). Admittedly I look down on such behaviour, but it is within the game mechanics so is perfectly legitimate play. And you are inviting such griefers by jetcan mining. Granted, jetcan mining is the most effective way to mind. But as has been stated by the devs, they are not intended for that use.
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Andrue
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.01.19 13:17:00 -
[62]
Edited by: Andrue on 19/01/2007 13:17:09
Originally by: Ki An
Originally by: Avon
No. But blowing up a miner's ore isn't baiting, is it? It is nothing more than a way to "hurt" the miner for not falling for your trap. It gains no reward. It is an act only indulged in to annoy the other player, with no other reward.
The difference is subtle, but it is important.
He didn't blow up the miner's ore. If he had, I would have agreed with you. He blew up his ore. He probably did this because he had no way of ferrying his ore to a station. He didn't give the miner his ore, because he didn't want to. It's his ore after all, and he can do what he wants with it.
The miner had a chance to take his ore back. The miner knew this was a trap, and didn't take the ore back. The pirate had no further use for his ore, so he blew it up.
/Ki
Agreed. The theif could have left his can and gone elsewhere I suppose but once you accept that stealing someone's ore is acceptable game play (however despicable) then you have to grant the theif the right to consider what he stole to be his property.
As soon as it becomes reasonable for the theif to think of the ore as being his property he has the right to do with it as he wants.
It only becomes grief play if he follows someone around and keeps doing it. -- (Battle hardened industrialist)
[Brackley, UK]
Linux is only free if your time is worthless |
Soulita
Gallente Inner Core
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Posted - 2007.01.19 13:31:00 -
[63]
Edited by: Soulita on 19/01/2007 13:32:05
It is an interesting question if stealing ore and then blowing it up when it belongs to you is griefing or not.
My opinion is it could be interpreted in both ways.
a) it is griefing because you annoy another player without benefit for yourself
b) it is not griefing because you are blowing up your own ore after all (after stealing it the ore is in your possession)
Both a and b are equally valid.
I think no matter how much we speculate here we wont know for sure...
... until someone official makes a post here clarifying the situation.
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Gabriel Death
Caldari CP Navy
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Posted - 2007.02.16 11:23:00 -
[64]
Edited by: Gabriel Death on 16/02/2007 11:20:54
Originally by: Stitcher To my eyes, he was most definitely griefing. If you responded to conversations and had a name like Samuel Freedom, then the probability is VERY strong that you are not a macro miner, and any macro hunter knows it - they usually have names like XKCDWC and don't respond to anything - bumping, hails, looting the can, anything.
BullCrap, and it is. I am a Marco hunter, and all MARCO'ers are in a NOOB-Corp as well as SPIES! Ive seen Marco-ratters, Ships that are programmed to Shoot rats/npcs to gain bountie. Ive seen this person have two different play styles, when she was at the keyboard (She Looted the wrecks and salvaged them) and when the marco program was running (She left the wrecks alone and didnt even stop to see what were in the hauler spawns or the True Sansha Spawns) And heres the Kill mail Just to prove it Claudia (Marco-Ratter in 0.0) and you'l notice that the first two names who killed her, were members of her own corp. FYI, they invited her in to see if she was marco'ing and they were right. AND you can even convo me on that!
Most of us who live in 0.0 know to loot these because they have valubles to make stuff and have nice juicy faction items to sell to mission runners in empire or too make our ships that much better in pvp.
AND there is no griefing unless he does it the whole time to the player.
Baiting is Allowed, look at wars, Snipers do not kill the Soldier, they WOUND him and INJURE him. Other people rush in and also get INJURED.
If no one SAVES the GUY IE = Your CAN! The Sniper KILLS the GUY IE = YOUR CAN.
It Happens, GET OVER IT! I was a Miner and it happened to me, Hell it happened to me in 1.0 space, and IT IS ALLOWED, thats why the Dev's wont answer your petitions of CRYING!
And where in the Rules does it say that thiefing is Grief, you either do SOMETHING or NOT, when you Chose NOT to do anything, it was simply YOUR fault for not learning and FYI, you are not New, new is 14 days less, same as a trial, the fact that you are like 2-3 months old shows the fact that you are a experienced player and should have been Better at mining, and how to secure.
Feel Free to send me GRIEF-Mail in game to say How much of a Ass i am, or how wrong i am, or how you would like to catch Marco'ers, cause its real easy, AND FYI Stitcher, Names can be VARIED even REAL NAMES, cause the name you were looking for was taken already, so dont give me that kind of bullcrap.
Now that ive sayd my piece and it took an awful long time to do it. Fell free like i sayd to evemail me at my toons Name of Gabriel Death.
BTW if you kill someone in my RL Land, you walk after 6 months and if you dont pay your TV liesence, you get sent to jail for 10 years, SO each land or game has its own rules and it should not be confused with IN-GAME!
Marco-Killer
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Omega Man
The Geddy Foundation
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Posted - 2007.02.16 11:34:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Nero Scuro There is no such thing as griefing in EVE.
If he blew up your ore he did it for a reason - because it was funny. EVE may be a game, but it isn't trying to feel like one. If someone is an ******* in real life you don't get god going 'omg that's griefing, he's totally banned!', so it won't happen in EVE either.
Just deal with it, get revenge or whatever.
No what happens in RL is you report his sorry ass to the authorities with your evidence and they deal with him.
Fines, freedoms banned etc etc is the result of anti-social behaviour.
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Zaqar
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Posted - 2007.02.16 11:37:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Soulita It is an interesting question if stealing ore and then blowing it up when it belongs to you is griefing or not..
There's no point in arguing over whether something is 'Griefing' or not. 'Griefing' is a term from other MMOs that doesn't really apply to Eve (since the whole idea of the game is mostly to screw each other over).
What are you actually asking? Is this allowed? or Is this person an arse?
I'd hazard a guess that the answer to both would be yes.
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Crumplecorn
Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2007.02.16 11:44:00 -
[67]
Edited by: Crumplecorn on 16/02/2007 11:43:52 Griefing is in the intention, not in the action The specific action is irrelevant, and trying to determine whether a given action is griefing is just wrong, because it is the intention which defines it.
If you have to ask it's either a) They were not griefing or b) They failed
You can't logically come to the forum and ask this question. If someone is making your gametime miserable for no other reason than to make you miserable, that is griefing. It doesn't matter what the mechanic is, if you are in a war and they repeatedly blow up your ship it's a perfectly legitimate action, but if they go out of their way to make you miserable over it, that's griefing. If they are failing to make you miserable, even if they are trying, they are not really griefing, as there is no harm done, and since you can't truly judge their intentions, just leave it alone.
It has also been correctly pointed out above that griefing is very difficult in Eve, because Eve is such a harsh game anyway that you really have to go above and beyond the call of asshattery to make it any harsher for someone. ----------
IBTL \o/ Fix the ******* map! Privateers FTW |
Crumplecorn
Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2007.02.16 11:53:00 -
[68]
Edited by: Crumplecorn on 16/02/2007 11:49:38
Originally by: Avon
Originally by: Ki An Is baiting miners griefplay?
No. But blowing up a miner's ship isn't baiting, is it? It is nothing more than a way to "hurt" the miner for not falling for your trap. It gains no reward. It is an act only indulged in to annoy the other player, with no other reward.
The difference is subtle, but it is important.
I changed one word in this post. Spot the difference. ----------
IBTL \o/ Fix the ******* map! No such thing as griefing in Eve |
Haks'he Lirky
Durgar og Illmenni
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Posted - 2007.02.16 12:02:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Samuel Freedom was he just greifing or is this ok pratice.
Griefing is an acceptable practice in EvE online.. You dont like him stealing your ore? You can shoot him.
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Maam
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Posted - 2007.02.16 12:37:00 -
[70]
Edited by: Maam on 16/02/2007 12:34:36 I've heard everything now. Someone saying that responding in local in English does not disprove he's a macro miner!
Perhaps they should give up macroing in Eve and apply for the Loebner Prize instead.
(Dr. Loebner pledged a Grand Prize of $100,000 and a Gold Medal for the first computer whose responses were indistinguishable from a human's.)
Seeing as we can't really ever get agreement on "griefing", let's just call it bullying shall we?
And running to teacher, even Ma'am, is never as good as a good kick in the *******s and a poke in the eye. Get some mates, get a bored merc corp, get Privateers on his bulling ass. Nuke him back to the stone age.
Edit: "poke in the eve" / "poke in the eye" .. damn freudiuan slips!
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Laythun
Black Lance Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2007.02.16 12:47:00 -
[71]
Originally by: SSgt Sniper
Originally by: Menod Penter Edited by: Menod Penter on 18/01/2007 22:56:20 No Griefing... Because you have the option to 'secure' your belongings.
1) Don't jet can mine. 2) Mine to your cargohold. 3) Mine to a secure container.
It's easy to prevent theft.....
That's not theft that's griefing. If he'd stolen it he'd have made some money instead of spending money to blow it up.
Ok err its not
He Stole it, so now it belongs to him, he can do what he wants with his own belongings.
Black Lance Brother
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Maam
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Posted - 2007.02.16 12:56:00 -
[72]
Edited by: Maam on 16/02/2007 12:52:52
Originally by: Laythun He Stole it, so now it belongs to him, he can do what he wants with his own belongings.
How ridiculous. Yes, it works like that within the game mechanics, but what a pathetic way of looking at it.
I must assume that the Eve bullies are making up for real world inadequacies and find the only way they can be the "big man" is to kick virtual sand in people's faces in a computer game.
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Crumplecorn
Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2007.02.16 12:59:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Maam Edited by: Maam on 16/02/2007 12:52:52
Originally by: Laythun He Stole it, so now it belongs to him, he can do what he wants with his own belongings.
How ridiculous. Yes, it works like that within the game mechanics, but what a pathetic way of looking at it.
I must assume that the Eve bullies are making up for real world inadequacies and find the only way they can be the "big man" is to kick virtual sand in people's faces in a computer game.
Yes that must be it
Jesus, this is poor even for the Eve-O Fora. ----------
IBTL \o/ Fix the ******* map! No such thing as griefing in Eve |
Zaqar
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Posted - 2007.02.16 13:04:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Crumplecorn
Originally by: Maam Edited by: Maam on 16/02/2007 12:52:52
Originally by: Laythun He Stole it, so now it belongs to him, he can do what he wants with his own belongings.
How ridiculous. Yes, it works like that within the game mechanics, but what a pathetic way of looking at it.
I must assume that the Eve bullies are making up for real world inadequacies and find the only way they can be the "big man" is to kick virtual sand in people's faces in a computer game.
Yes that must be it
Jesus, this is poor even for the Eve-O Fora.
Signed. Pathetic.
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Maam
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Posted - 2007.02.16 13:10:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Crumplecorn Yes that must be it Jesus, this is poor even for the Eve-O Fora.
I had a moment of clarity when I saw Make Love, Not Warcraft the other day.
See that guy in that. That's you lot, that is.
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Zaqar
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Posted - 2007.02.16 13:17:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Maam
Originally by: Crumplecorn Yes that must be it Jesus, this is poor even for the Eve-O Fora.
I had a moment of clarity when I saw Make Love, Not Warcraft the other day.
See that guy in that. That's you lot, that is.
This is not the game you are looking for.
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Haks'he Lirky
Durgar og Illmenni
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Posted - 2007.02.16 13:18:00 -
[77]
Edited by: Haks''he Lirky on 16/02/2007 13:18:05 Edited by: Haks''he Lirky on 16/02/2007 13:15:56
Originally by: Maam Edited by: Maam on 16/02/2007 12:52:52
Originally by: Laythun He Stole it, so now it belongs to him, he can do what he wants with his own belongings.
How ridiculous. Yes, it works like that within the game mechanics, but what a pathetic way of looking at it.
I must assume that the Eve bullies are making up for real world inadequacies and find the only way they can be the "big man" is to kick virtual sand in people's faces in a computer game.
Or they (read we) might just hold a different perspective on the world than you do, or unless your one of those people who only accepts his own views as correct? Like fanatics who cant really understand that people in the world prefer things differently than other people.
Ive started to like ****ing people off, I like to see the responses they manage to construct, I like to find different methods within the game mechanics to be a nuisance in the world of eve online... Even though most of the time people assume im in some way compensating for something in real life..
What does that say about people who play counter strike? Or Grand Theft Auto?
It's a game, the people who take things seriously and assume to much about motives arent really playing a game in their minds.
Cry about ingame pixels and you might have to take a session with a head doctor...
EDIT: I for example could assume that people who mine all day long and do nothing but hoard iskies are compensating for their failed career and education, being stuck in a dead end job with no sense of accomplishment.
but then again why should I assume that?
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Maam
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Posted - 2007.02.16 13:19:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Zaqar This is not the game you are looking for.
I know. It's too tough for me. I prefer Hello Kitty, Island Adventure.
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Crumplecorn
Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2007.02.16 13:22:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Maam
Originally by: Crumplecorn Yes that must be it Jesus, this is poor even for the Eve-O Fora.
I had a moment of clarity when I saw Make Love, Not Warcraft the other day.
See that guy in that. That's you lot, that is.
You mean we're all really high level in WoW? ----------
IBTL \o/ Fix the ******* map! No such thing as griefing in Eve |
Zaqar
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Posted - 2007.02.16 13:24:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Maam
Originally by: Zaqar This is not the game you are looking for.
I know. It's too tough for me. I prefer Hello Kitty, Island Adventure.
Troll.
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DarkElf
Caldari Veto. Academy
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Posted - 2007.02.16 13:27:00 -
[81]
technically if he enjoyed doing it then it is not greifing.
why someone would get enjoyment out of that however is beyond me and he has clearly missed something about eve.
DE
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Maam
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Posted - 2007.02.16 13:27:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Zaqar
Originally by: Maam
Originally by: Zaqar This is not the game you are looking for.
I know. It's too tough for me. I prefer Hello Kitty, Island Adventure.
Troll.
LOL. Forum griefing 4TW.
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Crumplecorn
Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2007.02.16 13:30:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Maam
Originally by: Zaqar
Originally by: Maam
Originally by: Zaqar This is not the game you are looking for.
I know. It's too tough for me. I prefer Hello Kitty, Island Adventure.
Troll.
LOL. Forum griefing 4TW.
*Sigh* ----------
IBTL \o/ Fix the ******* map! No such thing as griefing in Eve |
Malcanis
Galactech Industries Ltd. Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.16 13:32:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Sm0kE Sounds like "greifing" to me. He was not profiting off stealing your ore (except maybe a quick laugh).
Who knows, take it up with the devs cause I don't really get it. You can steal ore, but you can't steal ore and then do with it what you want. What, I can't mine for an hour and decide to blow up my can because it doesn't benefit me in anyway?
I don't think you really understand the concept of "ransom".
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