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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 7 post(s) |
Gaven Blands
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Posted - 2007.01.18 23:16:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Gaven Blands on 18/01/2007 23:16:19 Opai, I see where you are coming from.
But Eve is a game for the general public, and many of them are not aware of things like account security issues, EULA's, accepted practises and so on.
This whole issue reminds me of when my bank first rang me and insisted that I answer security questions to validate who I was. When I refused and immediately rang them to complain at this practice they simply could not understand what my or anybody else's problem could possibly be.
The moment giving out secure information to persons unknown, on request, becomes common practice, then the sooner people who would abuse that system are going to start abusing it.
If somebody were to create an Alliance, specifially to being farming Account names and character names, it is likely they will be able to hijack a few accounts a week. Because the sorts of people who fall for giving out that information are not the sort of people who make secure passwords.
True, we do have a responsibility to maintain the confidentiality of our own accounts. CCP have a responsibility too. Additionally, we all have a moral responsibility to ensure that people who are not aware of their responsibility are made aware of it.
And that is what I believe is happening in these threads tonight. I see it as a good thing for everybody.
EDIT: The sooner I learn to spell "practice" the better.
If your sig is the best thing you've posted, stop posting. |
Lyn30101
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Posted - 2007.01.18 23:25:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Jashan T'Okara I think that the whole paranoia in-game is reaching an unhealthy level. I understand that being cautious of new recruits is a good thing, and even getting a screenshot of the character selection screen would make sense. But screenshots of the login screen and hard drive prove nothing. In addition to all this, getting those screenshots in no way will protect you from a dedicated corp thief/spy, as they will just fake the stuff.
I would never give out my login info or anything so personal as a screenshot of my harddrive contents to gain membership of a corp, no matter how good the corp. And personally, would wonder about the mentality of a corp/alliance which goes to such lengths of paranoia in order to 'protect' themselves, and would not want to put my lot in with that crowd.
This is what's going to continue to happen (the paranoia) until CCP starts to tighten restrictions on some of the activities infiltrationwise that should have never been allowed in the first place IMHO. I actually was just talking about this with a friend ingame and he made the observation that for all the speculation about BoB taking all 0.0 and killing EvE, paranoia and alliances shutting almost all recruiting down because of spies probably have a better chance. Without new blood having a place to go, (for those who wish to) the experience will stagnate and less newcomers will stay, and without infusions of fresh blood into Corps and alliances, they will begin to have troubles (some of them). So where I sit on it corp thieving and spying should probably right about now begin to have limits, to help ease up on the paranoia. |
SSgt Sniper
Gallente Zekarus Ltd.
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Posted - 2007.01.18 23:30:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Opai McTwist
Originally by: SSgt Sniper
Originally by: Jiekon I will point kieron to this thread and he will decide if it deserves a general announcement or not.
CCP has always encouraged people to keep their account details top secret, especially account usernames as it can be very dangerous if it were to fall into teh wrong hands.
You really have to ask: Is it worth risking your account security to join this alliance? if the answer is no (which it should be) either fake it or forget the alliance.
I have already set my account to expire at the end of this cycle over this and some other issues. However a CCP DEV response on this issue quashing the practice would go a LONG way to making me reconsider.
First to ask! Can I have your stuff?
No. You can however, blow it out y... you know what, never mind. ---------
Representing all the casual gamers happily living in Empire, that want NO PART of your 0.0 annoyances.
However, I do not represent my corp. We vote first. |
Tara Sitano
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Posted - 2007.01.18 23:37:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Venkul Mul Clear cache. ir reset the log in drop box too.
I have only 1 account, truly officer, how can you dubt it?
change username=xxx in the prefs.ini, take screenshot, change it back
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CharlieMurphy
Amarr Viziam
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Posted - 2007.01.19 00:03:00 -
[35]
sharing any form of account details is foolish any alliance that trusts a screen shot of accout details is also foolish because its so easily gotten around
Originally by: Jashan T'Okara I think that the whole paranoia in-game is reaching an unhealthy level. I understand that being cautious of new recruits is a good thing, and even getting a screenshot of the character selection screen would make sense. But screenshots of the login screen and hard drive prove nothing. In addition to all this, getting those screenshots in no way will protect you from a dedicated corp thief/spy, as they will just fake the stuff.
he pretty much said it its party ccps fault for allowing this kind of sillyness to go on but i do see that in some way it adds something to the game,however there is no test that can be trusted to prevent it
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Opai McTwist
Amarr The Sell Swords
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Posted - 2007.01.19 00:07:00 -
[36]
Gaven: A sensible reply gets a sensible answer.
I'll not deny that security is an issue that most of the public know little about. I agree that security needs to be referred to. It wouldn't be bad if people took to heart that line in the EULA about giving out account information.
Seeing as how (in the original thread) the OP knew this was an issue and did not give out their account, I'm curious as to where people find the reason to act indignant toward CCP, make claims against CCP, and twist the words of a volunteer. What I also don't understand is the attitude that some people adopt. Flaming is the easy choice here. Claiming that CCP has no interest in paying attention to this incident, demanding CCP warn specific players and alliances, flaming ISD, threatening to cancel accounts, and generally acting like spoiled children accomplishes nothing. Nothing at all except to incite sods like myself to make outrageous counter-claims. (Hi Sniper, If you just jettison your stuff in jetcans when you leave, that'd work best. Rens? Oursalaert? Can I have your login name? kthnxbye )
I'm not sure that it serves any good to demand that CCP remind folks exactly what their responsibilities are and what CCP is liable for. It is one thing to just say, as a player, that there are dangers with the practice. It is quite another believing that CCP, the corporation, needs to validate what this person is already telling us.
I don't disagree with the idea that giving out account names could lead to having your account hacked. What I do disagree with is how some people go about saying it.
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Opai McTwist
Amarr The Sell Swords
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Posted - 2007.01.19 00:12:00 -
[37]
Originally by: SSgt Sniper
Originally by: Opai McTwist
Originally by: SSgt Sniper
Originally by: Jiekon I will point kieron to this thread and he will decide if it deserves a general announcement or not.
CCP has always encouraged people to keep their account details top secret, especially account usernames as it can be very dangerous if it were to fall into teh wrong hands.
You really have to ask: Is it worth risking your account security to join this alliance? if the answer is no (which it should be) either fake it or forget the alliance.
I have already set my account to expire at the end of this cycle over this and some other issues. However a CCP DEV response on this issue quashing the practice would go a LONG way to making me reconsider.
First to ask! Can I have your stuff?
No. You can however, blow it out y... you know what, never mind.
With such a love note, how can I not respond?? Sniper. You quote a dev response... and then demand another dev response.
Heh. Not only quote a dev response... but a response that actually advises people NOT to give out their account information... in essence, answering your demand.
And then you go all EMO and tell everyone that you're quitting.
I said it before, and I'll say it again. Can I have your stuff? Pwetty pwease?
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Allantia
FW Inc Kith of Venal
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Posted - 2007.01.19 00:15:00 -
[38]
Quote: The discussion for those who missed it is: Certain alliances ask for screenshots of login names to try to catch lazy people who lie about how many accounts they have.
If that's the case, the aforementioned alliances are pretty stupid. I have 2 accounts, and I can show you login screens all day with only 1 account name and without going to any special effort.
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Stitcher
Caldari J.I.T. Enterprises Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.01.19 00:18:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Stitcher on 19/01/2007 00:15:26 Having done some recruitment for my corp and alliance myself in the past, I feel I should clear this up.
when people ask for your login screen, more often than not, what they want is THIS:
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y31/SwitchbladeUK/example1.jpg
As you can see, not a shred of important login information is present. It shows only my main, and two creation-level alts that I initially made for demoing the game to a friend and now retain purely because I can't be bothered to delete them. The only information present about my main is his corp, title, present location, sec status and wealth - most of which is publically available knowledge, and the rest of which is basically harmless. My login name and password are NOT present.
This is not a foolproof method, nor was it ever meant to be. Thanks in part to this practice, most active spies in this game use alts that run on separate paid-for accounts where they can actually train skills up and slip past this security procedure. Obviously, those characters are NOT caught by this process. Nevertheless, it has helped out in the past, and I know of at least one corp that succesfully averted being infiltrated by a known corp thief after the player in question was dumb enough to post that page - with the name of his thieving alt clearly visible.
If someone asks you for your login and password screen for security purposes, then what they really want to see is the number of accounts you hold. Just open the dropdown menu, and then censor out all the usernames, like so:
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y31/SwitchbladeUK/example2.jpg
Anyone looking to recruit me would now know that:
1) I have only one active paid account 2) that account has three characters on it
Again, the information can be faked - I might have two accounts, but only use the other one off my laptop, for example, but this can be considered a reasonable level of security to minimize the risk of infiltration
As with CCP policy, don't give your username and password to anyone. If somebody asks for that information, tell them to go do something unspeakable with a scout drone, and go find somebody else to join. +++ FLA - The hardest thing in EVE is to be the good guys.
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Pellaeon DuGalle
Caldari Deep Black Industries
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Posted - 2007.01.19 01:18:00 -
[40]
But stitcher....clearing the cache will re-set the login name details. That way I can just make a backup of my cache, get a "clean" login, replace my cache, and BoB's your uncle. Or alliance as the case may be
------------------- "There is one rule for the industrialist and that is: Make the best quality of goods possible at the lowest cost possible, paying the highest wages possible." |
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SSgt Sniper
Gallente Zekarus Ltd.
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Posted - 2007.01.19 01:52:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Opai McTwist
Originally by: SSgt Sniper
Originally by: Opai McTwist
Originally by: SSgt Sniper
Originally by: Jiekon I will point kieron to this thread and he will decide if it deserves a general announcement or not.
CCP has always encouraged people to keep their account details top secret, especially account usernames as it can be very dangerous if it were to fall into teh wrong hands.
You really have to ask: Is it worth risking your account security to join this alliance? if the answer is no (which it should be) either fake it or forget the alliance.
I have already set my account to expire at the end of this cycle over this and some other issues. However a CCP DEV response on this issue quashing the practice would go a LONG way to making me reconsider.
First to ask! Can I have your stuff?
No. You can however, blow it out y... you know what, never mind.
With such a love note, how can I not respond?? Sniper. You quote a dev response... and then demand another dev response.
Heh. Not only quote a dev response... but a response that actually advises people NOT to give out their account information... in essence, answering your demand.
And then you go all EMO and tell everyone that you're quitting.
I said it before, and I'll say it again. Can I have your stuff? Pwetty pwease?
Even though you're a troll, I just have to say it's not a threat. My sub ends Feb 8, and if at that time at least ONE of the three issues that have made me make my decision isn't resolved, that'll be it.
And my friends will have any stuff I give, not some asshats on the forum. ---------
Representing all the casual gamers happily living in Empire, that want NO PART of your 0.0 annoyances.
However, I do not represent my corp. We vote first. |
Stitcher
Caldari J.I.T. Enterprises Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.01.19 01:57:00 -
[42]
like I say, it's not a foolproof, catch-all spy zapper. It's a basic security precaution designed to offer a first layer of defence. It is not a substitute for keeping your wits about you and being careful with who you trust - and as recent events with my own alliance show, sometimes the bad guys are just impossible to detect until it's too late to catch them, anyway. It's a sad fact that even the most security-conscious alliance in EVE most likely has at least one hostile spy installed that they would never suspect.
The screenshot system is there to weed out the inept and the stupid. After all, if you're going to be infiltrated, you may as well insist on high quality spies. +++ FLA - The hardest thing in EVE is to be the good guys.
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Lyn30101
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Posted - 2007.01.19 02:03:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Stitcher like I say, it's not a foolproof, catch-all spy zapper. It's a basic security precaution designed to offer a first layer of defence. It is not a substitute for keeping your wits about you and being careful with who you trust - and as recent events with my own alliance show, sometimes the bad guys are just impossible to detect until it's too late to catch them, anyway. It's a sad fact that even the most security-conscious alliance in EVE most likely has at least one hostile spy installed that they would never suspect.
The screenshot system is there to weed out the inept and the stupid. After all, if you're going to be infiltrated, you may as well insist on high quality spies.
Stitch, I can accept this is an unfortunate side effect of some of the things CCP has decided to allow in the game. I cannot accept that that makes it okay.
If you had seen the chatlog as it was posted, you would see that the guy was asked for WAY too much information, and possibly security compromising info. Completely unacceptable.
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Stitcher
Caldari J.I.T. Enterprises Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.01.19 02:14:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Stitcher on 19/01/2007 02:11:57
Originally by: Stitcher As with CCP policy, don't give your username and password to anyone. If somebody asks for that information, tell them to go do something unspeakable with a scout drone, and go find somebody else to join.
yeah, 'nuff said I think.
RE: Mr dude who's quitting - "Can I have your stuff" is pretty much the standard response to any announcement that a player intends to quit. You're just one of several thousand people who play this game, and you're quitting over a trivial quirk of player behaviour that the devs have no ability whatsoever to control? Newsflash: Nobody cares. You aren't making a statement by doing this at all. +++ FLA - The hardest thing in EVE is to be the good guys.
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Lyn30101
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Posted - 2007.01.19 04:27:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Stitcher Edited by: Stitcher on 19/01/2007 02:11:57
Originally by: Stitcher As with CCP policy, don't give your username and password to anyone. If somebody asks for that information, tell them to go do something unspeakable with a scout drone, and go find somebody else to join.
yeah, 'nuff said I think.
RE: Mr dude who's quitting - "Can I have your stuff" is pretty much the standard response to any announcement that a player intends to quit. You're just one of several thousand people who play this game, and you're quitting over a trivial quirk of player behaviour that the devs have no ability whatsoever to control? Newsflash: Nobody cares. You aren't making a statement by doing this at all.
Well, I wouldn't call it trivial, and apparently there are three(?) things bugging him, But I'm going to mention this again: This game seems to be simple schoolyard bully pvp combined with a forum of fire that is no different than any other video game forum (even your dreaded enemy WoW). So the trolling of the guy didn't surprise me in the least. His choice of word but I think he was right.
Put it this way
*STILL looking for a another spaceship MMO*
And yes, if you find me one I like you CAN have my stuff, but you'll be sorely disappointed at the lack of stuff to have
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Zarlak
Caldari Quam Singulari Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2007.01.19 10:22:00 -
[46]
Hopefully to clear confusion
What they did NOT want from him (which WOULD be a UELA violation but isnt of any use to recruiters as my login name could be ilikeprettypinkpanties1988 but my charecter names completely different, this would not help the recruiters at all, that isnt my login name by the way)
http://www.freewebs.com/byrnes/donot.JPG
what they DID want from him for good reasons so they can check if hes a spy or not or has alts in other alliances
http://www.freewebs.com/byrnes/do.JPG
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Garia666
Amarr adeptus gattacus Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2007.01.19 10:26:00 -
[47]
People shouldn`t get 2 things confused. A screenshot of your characters is something else as a screenshot of you`r acount login name.
As info is power. Alliances try all new sorts of way`s to get a benefit above the other to win a war or do maximum dmg. Therefore Alliances need to protect there assets. This has to be done for maximum security.
There are allot of other way`s to check someone integrity but i will not go there.
->My Vids<- CCP= More skilz more moneh! |
Malachon Draco
eXceed Inc.
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Posted - 2007.01.19 10:46:00 -
[48]
I don't see how CCP can rule its a EULA violation to ask for a screenshot of the account page on login. Its their own fault for allowing spying and similar things in the game.
All Corps and Alliances are trying to do is protect themselves from spying, and yes, that can include pretty harsh measures, but the consequences for allowing a spy in can be pretty harsh as well. If the spying continues or even grows worse, I wouldn't be surprised if in a year some alliances will demand RL information, webcam interviews and such before admitting people.
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ApaKaka
Minmatar Fippel And Trixx
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Posted - 2007.01.19 11:08:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Zarlak Hopefully to clear confusion what they DID want from him for good reasons so they can check if hes a spy or not or has alts in other alliances http://www.freewebs.com/byrnes/do.JPG
Wrong! I talked to this guy last night while he was talking to the LV recruiter. He posted screenshots and chatlogs of everything he had provided to the guy, and the guy did IN FACT ask him for a screenshot of the Eve login screen, with account and password box showing.
He also quite definetly did send the character screen and assorted info to the LV guy, but refused to send him the login account-screen and got upset - to which the LV recruiter responded something like "I'll make sure no alliance ever accepts you anywhere"
Arrogance is your worst enemy. |
Stormhold
FinFleet Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2007.01.19 11:10:00 -
[50]
Edited by: Stormhold on 19/01/2007 11:06:35 I got to agree with some posters.
If someone asks you to donate all your belongings to him to join his club, you can say no. If a corp asks you for something you feel you can't give just say no. As simple as that.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.01.19 11:50:00 -
[51]
The original thread was closed or deleted? And if it still exist, someone has a link?
I would like to see the original discussion.
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Plutoinum
German Cyberdome Corp
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Posted - 2007.01.19 12:02:00 -
[52]
Edited by: Plutoinum on 19/01/2007 12:01:33
Originally by: Venkul Mul Clear cache. ir reset the log in drop box too.
I have only 1 account, truly officer, how can you dubt it?
Indeed, I you can let it show anything you want just by clearing cache and/or using notepad, I think. So what's the point ? ______________ *need new sig* |
Tiny Tove
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Posted - 2007.01.19 12:04:00 -
[53]
Edited by: Tiny Tove on 19/01/2007 12:02:30 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=462042
There are some points to be made:
1. It was locked by ISD because somebody hurt their feelings, which is less important than account security, it seems.
2. The chatlogs that CLEARLY showed LV asking directly for account information having not been satisfied that the character information was enough have been snipped.
3. LV now have free license in this thread to claim it never happened. It was low enough that they did do it, and now to lie about it is just disgusting.
The old thread is nearly useless thanks to ISD rules and intervention. Section 6. No Forum User May Upset CCP, It's Representatives, Or Large Influential Groups Of PAYING Account Holders.
EDITTING for linky
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Vito Parabellum
Fivrelde Corp
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Posted - 2007.01.19 12:10:00 -
[54]
Huh, this is quite the witchhunt!
This is what I believe; Account names is nothing to be kept secret, the password is the thing that shoulders the responsability of your security.
Compare this with emails where usually the email is also the account name. Inboxes can contain a lot of sensitive information, with more weight than that of a game. An account name can't be more public than this.
Although having a non-public account name adds to the security it should only be seen as a bonus on top of the security of your very long and random password. If your password is crap, your security is crap.
Three more things; You cannot change account name if it becomes "compromised". There are probably a lot of players with the same account name as character name. And with so many users you can guess account names just by chosing some random words, like arnold, sunflare, apache etc (sorry goes out to those users for revealing their secret accountnames!).
Meh, carry on with the witchhunt :p ------ Simply by pulling on both ends, Chuck Norris can strech diamonds back into coal.
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Kate Nexus
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Posted - 2007.01.19 12:18:00 -
[55]
This is a game. The paranoya to the extent of forcing players to screenshot their account information and anything outside of game is unhealthy. I will never screenshot anything. If that means I can never fight in alliances fine. I will wait for CCP to put in NPC faction fights, or take a leave from the game until they do.
Fact is that anyone with a head about security can't play in alliances. You have to be quite stupid to meet the requirements of alliances that put your accounts in danger. Sad but true.
I wonder if alliance leaders ever make it outside and see the sun. From these requests they seem like paranoid freaks of nature to me. They probably accuse the mailman of stealing their air.
Anti-social gameplay FTL. Someone needed to say it. Flame me if you must.
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ApaKaka
Minmatar Fippel And Trixx
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Posted - 2007.01.19 12:20:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Vito Parabellum Huh, this is quite the witchhunt!
I think the original concern is that some alliances seem to be gearing towards this practise. (Or maybe it was just this recruiter, who knows)
With it being potentially security-breaching and foremostly against the EULA, as well as being pretty pointless as it is easily modified, it's not strange that the OP in the other thread was upset.
Alliances should really take a step back and think about what they require of people to be part of their crew. There are other ways to insure loyalty - out of alliance starter corps for example, or invites by referral from already trusted corpmates.
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Ogul
Caldari ZiTek Deepspace Explorations Prime Orbital Systems
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Posted - 2007.01.19 12:24:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Opai McTwist
Seeing as how (in the original thread) the OP knew this was an issue and did not give out their account, I'm curious as to where people find the reason to act indignant toward CCP, make claims against CCP, and twist the words of a volunteer.
Did you ignore the number of people claiming that giving out your account name is not a big issue? Seriously, a general warning would not be a bad thing, and banning anyone asking for it on second offence would be a smart move too.
Originally by: Opai McTwist
I'm not sure that it serves any good to demand that CCP remind folks exactly what their responsibilities are and what CCP is liable for. It is one thing to just say, as a player, that there are dangers with the practice. It is quite another believing that CCP, the corporation, needs to validate what this person is already telling us.
I suggest reading the EULA, if you find any passage that points out CCP acknowledges any responsibility whatsoever, please point it out to me.
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Malachon Draco
eXceed Inc.
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Posted - 2007.01.19 12:25:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Kate Nexus This is a game. The paranoya to the extent of forcing players to screenshot their account information and anything outside of game is unhealthy. I will never screenshot anything. If that means I can never fight in alliances fine. I will wait for CCP to put in NPC faction fights, or take a leave from the game until they do.
Fact is that anyone with a head about security can't play in alliances. You have to be quite stupid to meet the requirements of alliances that put your accounts in danger. Sad but true.
I wonder if alliance leaders ever make it outside and see the sun. From these requests they seem like paranoid freaks of nature to me. They probably accuse the mailman of stealing their air.
Anti-social gameplay FTL. Someone needed to say it. Flame me if you must.
Do you really think people ask this kind of information just for the hell of it? Check what kind of damage well-placed spies can do to a corp or an alliance, and what kind of damage HAS been done by these kinds of practices. Then tell me that there is no reason to be very cautious. CCP allows spying, fine.
But then they can't go about and disabling some of the counterintelligence/security efforts people undertake to stop spies.
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Kate Nexus
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Posted - 2007.01.19 12:28:00 -
[59]
Edited by: Kate Nexus on 19/01/2007 12:26:12
Originally by: Malachon Draco
But then they can't go about and disabling some of the counterintelligence/security efforts people undertake to stop spies.
Doesnt matter. It has no place in gameplay. Its antisocial and this is why 99% of the playerbase are not in 0.0 and are not in alliances. If anyone tries to join you want screenshots of their brains. Omgz a spy might tell someone about a gate youve been camping for 20 hours straight, you might have to get some sleep! Oh no! Call to arms, a noob corp pilots just went to an empty system we never use 20 jumps away, we need to camp them for 4 hours! Puleaaaaase
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Plutoinum
German Cyberdome Corp
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Posted - 2007.01.19 12:39:00 -
[60]
Edited by: Plutoinum on 19/01/2007 12:44:24
Originally by: Kate Nexus
Doesnt matter. It has no place in gameplay. Its antisocial and this is why 99% of the playerbase are not in 0.0 and are not in alliances. If anyone tries to join you want screenshots of their brains. Omgz a spy might tell someone about a gate youve been camping for 20 hours straight, you might have to get some sleep! Oh no! Call to arms, a noob corp pilots just went to an empty system we never use 20 jumps away, we need to camp them for 4 hours! Puleaaaaase
Spies are a big issue. They post internal forum stuff and infiltrate the teamspeak. Especially on teamspeak it really sux, if the enemy reacts to every tactical move the fleetcommand plans to do. That's why covert ops pilots are often in extra-channels. Almost every time, when we tried to pick targets that were of the main fleet in 1v- in the last days and called the target openly in TS, the target or fleet warped away, before we went there. If a covert pilot reports: 'Ok, I am 170km above the station. Warp to me. Blabla is there unaligned, shoot him first.', you think: 'Nice, now the enemy knows our primary and where we land, useless !'
I wanted already to propose to kick all pilots from the fleet and teamspeak channel, who don't have some killmail record on the killboards that shows that they are killing and getting killed by the enemy. Don't know if that would have made a change though. ______________ *need new sig* |
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