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Andy Freiheit
State War Academy Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2011.12.13 12:25:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hi, Ive been looking at a lot of Tengu fits lately, and I've noticed that very few fit their Tengu with Caldari Navy Heavy Missile Launchers, most people tend to use the Tech II HAM's instead. So I was basically wondering if there is a particular reason for this besides the price?
Im also planing on fitting a Tengu myself for level 4 Missions, and was wondering if I should fit Caldari Navy HAM's instead of Tech II, as I can afford them.
Some suggestions for level 4 mission fits would be appreciated as well. :)
- Andy |
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
1469
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Posted - 2011.12.13 12:40:00 -
[2] - Quote
HAMs are fairly useless in PVE without Javelin ammo (for which you need the T2 launchers), and even then aren't that great as you'll constantly be scooting around to get into range
HMLs are the ticket, I find
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki |
Andy Freiheit
State War Academy Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2011.12.13 12:41:00 -
[3] - Quote
Ah, lol, I managed to write HAM instead of HML, Ill have to edit my post^^ |
Shivus Tao
Broski Enterprises Elite Space Guild
134
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Posted - 2011.12.13 12:44:00 -
[4] - Quote
The only reason is someone doesn't have tech 2 ham skills. Faction weapons are a bandaid that low skill characters with big wallets can slap on their ships until they get the necessary skills. Running with faction weapons results in hilarious lossmails.
Don't use hams for level 4's. Use T2 heavy launchers and fury missiles. The added DPS is tempting, but the greater range the heavies give you is more valuable as it lets you apply that damage sooner.
6x Heavy missile launcher II
1x cheap deadspace or faction 10mn afterburner some combination of deadspace small shield boosters and standard T2 hardeners depending on rats. Depending on the rats and thus necessary hardeners you'll have 1 or 2 free midslots to fit painters and/or webs if you need.
At least 2 CN BCU's in the lows with 2 BCU II's, or just 4 CN BCU's.
Rigs depend on your missile support skills. |
Kaanchana
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
49
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Posted - 2011.12.13 13:15:00 -
[5] - Quote
T2 HML will have 2% damage boost per skill level. ANd you can use precision missiles which are helpful with frigates since tengu doesn't have a drone bay. |
Andy Freiheit
State War Academy Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2011.12.13 13:18:00 -
[6] - Quote
Allright, so T2 HML's is more cost efficient and better against Frigs, and they have a damage bonus with skills. But all in all, without considering the price, what would be the best alternative? |
Vachir Khan
TriSeq Defence Group
99
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Posted - 2011.12.13 14:06:00 -
[7] - Quote
Apart from allowing precisions, T2 also allows for Fury ammo which does more dps than faction launchers with faction ammo. As long as you have rigor rigs fitted (which you should anyway) you'll be fine with fury for anything above frigates. Also, excessive faction mods tend to turn you into a loot pi+¦ata and gank target. Stick to T2 when you can get away with it and only go faction where it's actually useful.
I had this discussion in the help channel where some bozo linked his full faction fit Tengu going "lulz, diz is teh best EVAR!!!!" and when I explained to him he actually does less dps because of his faction fetish he cut me off and left chat, his ego probably couldn't take the hit. Excellence is not a skill, it's an attitude.
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Shaen Vesuvius
Redcoats Low Hanging Fruit
1
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Posted - 2011.12.13 14:39:00 -
[8] - Quote
Besides the price of the launchers, the lack of fury ammo and being a gank target the other edge faction hml has over t2 (being ROF) is totally negated by the 4 x Navy BCU.
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Caelus Heliodromus
British Federation Sleepless Knights Alliance
2
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Posted - 2011.12.13 15:06:00 -
[9] - Quote
How is the RoF difference negated by faction BCUs? Wouldn't you have faction BCUs on both fits? |
Goose99
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
313
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Posted - 2011.12.13 16:06:00 -
[10] - Quote
Caelus Heliodromus wrote:How is the RoF difference negated by faction BCUs? Wouldn't you have faction BCUs on both fits?
It doesn't, it amplifies the dps difference between the two, which varies.
Factors to consider: -Missile specialization increase rop, not dmg modifier. At specialization lvl5, rop of T2 hml is lower than CN hml, but higher than RF hml. -With the same t1/CN ammo, CN hml deals more dps than t2 hml. -T2 hml with fury ammo, which faction launchers can't use, deals more paper dps than CN hml with t1/faction ammo. -Fury ammo has almost twice the exp radius as t1/CN ammo. Reloading precision ammo takes 10 seconds. -At max skills and with 3x rigors, CN or t2 hml takes 1 volley of CN ammo to pop kinetic elite frig rats, with CN faster due to higher rop. T2 with fury takes 5 volleys. -At max skills, on kinetic rats, CN or t2 hml takes 2 volley of either CN or fury ammo to pop kinetic BC rat, 2 volley for cruiser rats with higher than 72k bounty. CN hml faster due to higher rop. For cruiser rats lower than 72k bounty, 1 volley CN ammo, 2 for fury. -At max skills, on kinetic rats, T2 with fury saves 1 volley on BS rats with bounty higher than 543k, 2 volleys on BS rats with bounty higher than 1.162 mil, at lower rop. -CN ammo cost more, although available in LP shop. -T2 ammo cost less, although may not be available on site and need to be hauled. -T1 ammo cost nothing, and is available just about everywhere. -CN launchers slowly rise in price. You can sell it for slightly higher price at a later date, and use it meanwhile, unless: -You get ganked with it. -CN launchers will not increase your chance of being ganked, but it does increase loss when (not if) you get ganked. Tengu ganks are done blindly, without scanning. If you scan as a ganker, the tengu will be aligned and gone, or someone else will gank it first. It takes a single 1400s volley from Apoc (now Tornado) to pop an unhardened tengu. Gank first, check wreck for pimp after. Chances of pimp is good, if not, it's loss of a single gankboat, as opposed to a dozen.
Decide for yourself. |
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Tanya Powers
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
465
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Posted - 2011.12.13 19:29:00 -
[11] - Quote
2 T2 riggors 1 T2 flare, HML T2 with fury and support skills at lvl4 without implants explosion radius for fury's is about 115m witch is small considering T2 ammo has more dps, under 90m sign radius for Faction ammo and about 60 for T1 ammo.
Does the 0.crappy number difference from T2 launchers at spec4 with support skills 4 justify the price difference of faction launcher at 80M and T2 and 1.5M? -absolutely not but it's the best option if you can't use T2 launchers yet. Also you don't loose isk unless you get ganked, you can always sell them after training your skills.
Just an opinion.
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Tanya Powers
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
465
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Posted - 2011.12.13 19:36:00 -
[12] - Quote
Caelus Heliodromus wrote:How is the RoF difference negated by faction BCUs? Wouldn't you have faction BCUs on both fits?
Plug it in EFT/Pyfa to make yourself an idea but to make it simple, a 6 T2 launcher Tengu with 3 CN BCU's 1 T2 BCU gives you the ridiculous ROF difference between both for about less than 0.2sec.
Knowing your fury missile x6 will give you a lot more dps than faction ammo and when you stop masturbating your brains with those silly numbers you'll figure out T2 launchers eat everything from cruiser to BS size at light speed and only spider drones II or fast elite frigates take you 6 volley with fury, 2 with faction
The good thing is that Eve rules don't tell you you can't carry faction ammo in your cargo and use it with T2 launchers for such specific rats that represent less than 10% the rats you have to kill in your missions. |
Misanthra
Alternative Enterprises
10
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Posted - 2011.12.14 02:14:00 -
[13] - Quote
if you have the isk and the time, run both. get mission times in the same misisons both CN and T2. See what does better for you....then decide if you want to keep the CN.
Personally...CN did not thrill me and was isk better placed elsewhere. YMMV
I'll plug this setup for frigs not even using precision, works well for me with vanilla t1 ammo
Flare II, Rigor II, CCC II rigs radius and target velocity 5% implants.
Elite frigs killed decently fast, non elites go boom quick.
CCC II optional. It fits...gets you cap stable fit depenedent as well. Lost 1st tengu due to external forces and not perma run capable at the time, 2nd tengu I said lets perma run tank lol. Don't need it...plug what you like in.
Radius and target velocity imlpants also carry over to any missile boat. Ever go golem....they still work.
Also run hml damage and rof 5%...I pimped the tengu pilot becasue I jsut hate BS' and will run a tengu for a while lol. |
Sven Hammerstorm
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
2
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Posted - 2011.12.14 02:17:00 -
[14] - Quote
Goose99 wrote:Tengu ganks are done blindly, without scanning.
heh |
Misanthra
Alternative Enterprises
10
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Posted - 2011.12.14 02:47:00 -
[15] - Quote
Sven Hammerstorm wrote:Goose99 wrote:Tengu ganks are done blindly, without scanning. heh
time spent scanning is time lost tackling/popping and gives the tengu a chance to bugger off (always assume the other guy has an instawarp bm lined up).
Average tengu build is 3 CN bcu's at least (roughly 240 mil total...not up to speed on latest price) a faction AB (not sure of price,m y RF way back was 40 mil ish) and good chance at DS sb (bling pimp mediums at 700 mill....cheap smalls at 50 mil per). ganker doesn' want the added seconds to scanning letting this slip away. Sometimes they get a t2 tengu and lose out. But chances are good for at least a couple blingy items on it. |
Lilith Aurilien
State War Academy Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2011.12.14 13:54:00 -
[16] - Quote
Why t2 launchers? For t2 missiles of course - fury missiles are EPIC WIN.
/thread |
NoLimit Soldier
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
11
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Posted - 2011.12.14 17:34:00 -
[17] - Quote
Also if it is an odd-ball fit a use for the CN launchers is the drastic difference in power usage. (105 vs 90)
I think I have a weird 100mn tengu somewhere that required them for everything I wanted to fit.
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Sven Hammerstorm
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
2
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Posted - 2011.12.14 19:07:00 -
[18] - Quote
Misanthra wrote:Sven Hammerstorm wrote:Goose99 wrote:Tengu ganks are done blindly, without scanning. heh time spent scanning is time lost tackling/popping and gives the tengu a chance to bugger off (always assume the other guy has an instawarp bm lined up). Average tengu build is 3 CN bcu's at least (roughly 240 mil total...not up to speed on latest price) a faction AB (not sure of price,m y RF way back was 40 mil ish) and good chance at DS sb (bling pimp mediums at 700 mill....cheap smalls at 50 mil per). ganker doesn' want the added seconds to scanning letting this slip away. Sometimes they get a t2 tengu and lose out. But chances are good for at least a couple blingy items on it.
i like the way you think
heh |
Sven Galli
Drama Inc.
1
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Posted - 2011.12.14 19:21:00 -
[19] - Quote
Work smarter, not harder. I run t2 fury's and FOF's. Kill everything but frigets with Fury's. Reload with fof's and let em fly. by the time you need to reload, all frigets are gone. |
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