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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Wendat Huron
Lupus Industries
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Posted - 2007.01.11 05:39:00 -
[91]
You can always pick a few of those cycling corporations and declare war on them to not grant them the leave they sought.
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Wendat Huron
Lupus Industries
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Posted - 2007.01.11 06:35:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Oktain
Originally by: Jen Miller Edited by: Jen Miller on 10/01/2007 18:53:47
This is a sleezy tactic. No coporation should be allowed to leave an Alliance as long as there is an outstanding wardec. Attrition of treasure and materials is a primary goal of war. Leave so you can resupply unfettered is just wrong.
This is a PVP game, you know.
A PvP game but not necessarily an RTS game. Some people view EvE as a land control type strategic warfare sim. Others as a FPS jump on and kill for an hour and log. The game mechanics provide for both playstyles.
It does however not provide any means for the former to get back on the latter.
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El'Niaga
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Posted - 2007.01.11 08:31:00 -
[93]
If you believe the original answer was in error. You can petition it again and ask to have it seen by a supervisor.
Be clear and concise as to why you feel the original decision was in error. There is no guarantee that there will be a different answer, but it is possible.
This I think if allowed to run wild will easily destroy EVE in all honesty.
This might could be alleviated by certain penalties if one was to surrender.
Another solution would be to have it such that the war doesn't end when they leave an alliance, it remains in effect until it would have expired normally. At that point the corp could still redeclare war, but if they didn't it would expire like normal.
This would be similar to how it works when a corp that has a war declare joins an alliance, since all members of that alliance join the war.
(Someone above said that you couldn't join an alliance if at war, that's untrue though, you can't create an alliance while at war, but you can join an existing one.)
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Miss Mickey
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Posted - 2007.01.11 09:01:00 -
[94]
Edited by: Miss Mickey on 11/01/2007 08:58:24 Edited by: Miss Mickey on 11/01/2007 08:58:07 People seem to be mising the point.
Yes, you could dec war on the corp that left, but in order for that corp to suffer at all, ALL the ppl currently decc'ed by PA would need to do this. This is totally unreasonable.
Also, the issue is not about "if they didn't want to be at war they wouldn't have rejoined" it's that they took leave from the war to rebuild their assets and then rejoin when they were sorted. The whole point of a war is to prevent people at war from safely moving things around in empire. It's to allow people to disrupt the empire parts of alliances, as these are often their major supply lines. By being allowed to leave the alliance to avoid war so that you can move things round in empire, you're effectively avoiding the whole part of the war mechanic.
Mind you, it's everything i'd expect from the kind of people in PA, so meh...
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hangnoose
Caldari DAB RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2007.01.11 09:02:00 -
[95]
Didn't the ISS charter say during times of war corps were free to leave, and then return upon the war ending?
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El'Niaga
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Posted - 2007.01.11 09:11:00 -
[96]
Originally by: hangnoose Didn't the ISS charter say during times of war corps were free to leave, and then return upon the war ending?
That's not the problem here. As under the ISS charter they are not allowed back until after a war ends.
What I suspect is happening here but without inside knowledge is that the Privateer alliance is seeking to avoid certain fees.
If a corp leaves the alliance it has no war decs at that point. It can then declare war on up to three targets. Rejoin the alliance, at which point those three are now at war with everyone in the alliance.
Effectively they are avoiding paying the more expensive alliance rates to declare war by allowing corps to leave rebuild and declare new wars then rejoin.
It is just my speculation though and I have no proof. However if this isn't an exploit I can easily see folks trying such tactics which surely go contrary to the spirit of the game if not the law.
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Azerrad InExile
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Posted - 2007.01.11 09:21:00 -
[97]
Originally by: El'Niaga What I suspect is happening here but without inside knowledge is that the Privateer alliance is seeking to avoid certain fees.
If a corp leaves the alliance it has no war decs at that point. It can then declare war on up to three targets. Rejoin the alliance, at which point those three are now at war with everyone in the alliance.
Effectively they are avoiding paying the more expensive alliance rates to declare war by allowing corps to leave rebuild and declare new wars then rejoin.
It is just my speculation though and I have no proof. However if this isn't an exploit I can easily see folks trying such tactics which surely go contrary to the spirit of the game if not the law.
Pretty sure it costs 50m to war dec an alliance even if you are a corp, so unless they are war deccing individual corps and then joining they wouldn't be saving any isk.
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Lord WarATron
Amarr Vanguard Frontiers
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Posted - 2007.01.11 09:26:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Azerrad InExile
Originally by: El'Niaga What I suspect is happening here but without inside knowledge is that the Privateer alliance is seeking to avoid certain fees.
If a corp leaves the alliance it has no war decs at that point. It can then declare war on up to three targets. Rejoin the alliance, at which point those three are now at war with everyone in the alliance.
Effectively they are avoiding paying the more expensive alliance rates to declare war by allowing corps to leave rebuild and declare new wars then rejoin.
It is just my speculation though and I have no proof. However if this isn't an exploit I can easily see folks trying such tactics which surely go contrary to the spirit of the game if not the law.
Pretty sure it costs 50m to war dec an alliance even if you are a corp, so unless they are war deccing individual corps and then joining they wouldn't be saving any isk.
Going by memory they only saving is the 2mil/week for the corp not being in the alliance. The cost of wardecs etc are uneffected. And I doubt anyone is silly enough to try an exploit for 2mil a week! --- Slot 10 Akemons Modified 'Noble'Zet 5000 implant +8% Armour FREE |
El'Niaga
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Posted - 2007.01.11 09:30:00 -
[99]
Originally by: Azerrad InExile
Pretty sure it costs 50m to war dec an alliance even if you are a corp, so unless they are war deccing individual corps and then joining they wouldn't be saving any isk.
From my understanding the cost to declare war is dependent upon how many wars you have going.
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RuleoftheBone
Minmatar UK Corp Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2007.01.11 09:40:00 -
[100]
Possible solutions:
1-Get rid of alts 2-Restrict alt training to non-combat skills 3-Make all (including alt) employment history visible.
But then that would bring the hypocrites out of hiding and into the open ...it will never happen but nice to think about......
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widgetman
Widgetland
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Posted - 2007.01.11 10:35:00 -
[101]
Just my Two Pence worth.............I was in Privateers , iam not an alt , and have played Eve for some 3 Years. The whole idea of this corp was to have fun and enjoy the game, which i did whilst i was in Privateers. People whining about if its fair to leave and re-join etc need to grow up and play the game. Most of these alliances which are war decced have a majority of people who have skills in fighting , and thier own navy forces etc. I enjoyed the time i messed about in Privateers, and feel sorry for those who think its an exploit.
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Sattracer
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Posted - 2007.01.11 11:37:00 -
[102]
Edited by: Sattracer on 11/01/2007 11:40:57
Originally by: widgetman Just my Two Pence worth.............I was in Privateers , iam not an alt , and have played Eve for some 3 Years. The whole idea of this corp was to have fun and enjoy the game, which i did whilst i was in Privateers. People whining about if its fair to leave and re-join etc need to grow up and play the game. Most of these alliances which are war decced have a majority of people who have skills in fighting , and thier own navy forces etc. I enjoyed the time i messed about in Privateers, and feel sorry for those who think its an exploit.
But then, Privateers are the carebears of pirates. Lacking nerve and fortitude, they prey on noobs and defenseless ships and use every exploit they can. And I don't care how fuzzy you make your logic, an exploit is still an exploit. I have PERSONALLY capped their CEO on at least one occasion, and enjoyed using those TECH II Hammerheads he dropped from that blasterthron. Muahahaha. The fact that they do lack the prowess of real pvp'ers is the reason for the continuous war declarations. They simply do not have what it takes to be a viable force in 0.0. Anyone joining them has now flagged himself as a limp noodle, no respect or fear to be afforded to this person, carry on. In fact, a declaration of war in itself is purely the act of a diaperdandy. A NOOB with aspirations of one day being a real PVP player. If you got the stones, go on out to low sec, join a real alliance, and fight for something worth fighting for. Otherwise, enjoy your pampers.
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Lord WarATron
Amarr Vanguard Frontiers
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Posted - 2007.01.11 12:25:00 -
[103]
Originally by: Miss Mickey Edited by: Miss Mickey on 11/01/2007 08:58:24 Edited by: Miss Mickey on 11/01/2007 08:58:07 People seem to be mising the point.
Yes, you could dec war on the corp that left, but in order for that corp to suffer at all, ALL the ppl currently decc'ed by PA would need to do this. This is totally unreasonable.
Also, the issue is not about "if they didn't want to be at war they wouldn't have rejoined" it's that they took leave from the war to rebuild their assets and then rejoin when they were sorted. The whole point of a war is to prevent people at war from safely moving things around in empire. It's to allow people to disrupt the empire parts of alliances, as these are often their major supply lines. By being allowed to leave the alliance to avoid war so that you can move things round in empire, you're effectively avoiding the whole part of the war mechanic.
I dont think it makes much difference, since otherwise they will use a alt corp to move stuff around freely.
See all those NPC corp freightors floating about? Do you honestly beleive they are all what they seem? --- Slot 10 Akemons Modified 'Noble'Zet 5000 implant +8% Armour FREE |
Rayvonuk
Privateers
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Posted - 2007.01.11 12:32:00 -
[104]
Edited by: Rayvonuk on 11/01/2007 12:35:10
Originally by: Rawk Awn Here's an even better one...
Was patrolling in Rens yesterday and found a PA docked in a station.
So I wait outside for them to undock. They do (eventually), they're showing flashy red wartarget in overview and in local. I proceed to lock and engage only to be CONCORDOKKEN.
The sucker evidently quit their corp right before or as they were undocking.
Judging by this thread, this is the kind of crap tactic that PA wants to be known for. I was looking forward to this war and now I'm just disgusted. **** PA lamers - I'm going to concentrate on the Amarrian Loyalist wars we have now. At least I know I'll get a good fight. The way this is going, PA is going to have one of the worst reputations in the galaxy in pretty short order.
Man its your fault not his, Maybe the overview glitch was to blame also but you CAN'T leave corp while undocking anyway, you have to do it in a station. Why badmouth us when your too stupid to check before you shoot ?
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Barry Cantona
Gallente Garoun Investment Bank
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Posted - 2007.01.11 12:38:00 -
[105]
Edited by: Barry Cantona on 11/01/2007 12:34:33 sounds fishy
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TheAwakening
Caldari Post-Terran Mining Corporation
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Posted - 2007.01.11 16:46:00 -
[106]
Originally by: Sattracer
...use every exploit they can. And I don't care how fuzzy you make your logic, an exploit is still an exploit.
Proof, or stfu.
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Nanobotter Mk2
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Posted - 2007.01.11 16:58:00 -
[107]
sounds like as much of an exploit as it would be to leave your corp cause of a war dec and then rejoin it later.
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Azerrad InExile
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Posted - 2007.01.11 17:14:00 -
[108]
Originally by: Sattracer They simply do not have what it takes to be a viable force in 0.0.
I agree that they don't, but its not for lack of skill or pvp experience. What they lack is organization, but thats the entire point of the alliance.
Originally by: Sattracer If you got the stones, go on out to low sec, join a real alliance, and fight for something worth fighting for. Otherwise, enjoy your pampers.
I've spent more than enough time in alliances and know the typical alliances MO regarding "something worth fighting for". It usually goes something like "GET YOUR LAZY BUTTS TO SYSTEM XX-XXX AND FIGHT YOU LAZY SLOBS", then you go there, wait around for a couple hours for everyone else to get there and then fly around for a couple more hours waiting for the enemy fleet commander/your own fleet commander to grow a pair and engage. That usually involves warping into something, waiting for your screen to load up and waking up in a station 5 minutes later not even having seen the enemy fleet in question. Not all that fun if you ask me.
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Riceball Wingding
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Posted - 2007.01.11 17:21:00 -
[109]
After much soul searching and staring into the sun I've decided that this is an EXPLOIT!
And on another note, food tastes better if you eat it.
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ChrisFish
Privateers Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.01.11 18:15:00 -
[110]
Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2 sounds like as much of an exploit as it would be to leave your corp cause of a war dec and then rejoin it later.
That's good. Because that isn't an exploit either.
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ChrisFish
Privateers Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.01.11 18:15:00 -
[111]
Edited by: ChrisFish on 11/01/2007 18:19:41
Originally by: Riceball Wingding
After much soul searching and staring into the sun I've decided that this is an EXPLOIT! And on another note, food tastes better if you eat it.
Good thing you aren't a GM. You aren't even a main.
Still, not an exploit.
Please let this thread die now. Please.
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Tolarus
Keepers of Darkness Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2007.01.11 19:14:00 -
[112]
Edited by: Tolarus on 11/01/2007 19:11:44
Originally by: Big Al ... The overview thing needs to be fixed though, nothing like someone ninja quitting and still flashing red til you restart eve.
If the same corps are joining/leaving then yeah, maybe something is up there...
agree, Hopefully the devs will get this sorted out soon and if there is reason to believe that people have been using this as an exploit I hope they bring out the big black banning stick and wack some skulls with it.
as for the joining/leaving bulls*it, there needs to be some changes made to this. IMO You should only be allowed to join an alliance once a month, if you leave you have to wait another month before you can rejoin.
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Cmdr Sy
Appetite 4 Destruction
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Posted - 2007.01.11 21:06:00 -
[113]
Originally by: Bawldeux IV AS LONG AS IT IS AN ALLIANCE DOING IT AS A WHOLE, IT IS NOT AN EXPLOIT TO HOP IN AND OUT OF A CORP OR ALLIANCE TO EVADE WAR PENALTIES SUCH AS "NO SAFETY IN EMPIRE".
You do realise what Privateers is? It is a vehicle constantly at war with the rest of EVE. If a corp joins for a week, leaves for a week, then rejoins for a week, how is that an exploit? The corp is not escaping to avoid a war, it goes straight back into one. What "safety in Empire" is it buying when it hops back into the biggest warzone in EVE? Are you seriously suggesting that a corp would leave that alliance specifically to avoid a brief period when it is at war with another specific corp? No-one is so special as to stand out from 10-20k other war targets.
Perhaps the reverse is true and people want to join Privateers only on those occasions when it is contracted against a specific corp or alliance? If they are hopping in and out for the duration of war decs against a specific opponent, the only possible exploit is not having to pay a few mil per week, which is a moot point as the alliance explicitly states all wars are already paid for by third parties. In other words, that is legitimate use of game mechanics.
More to the point, declaring that an exploit would nerf pretty much every merc corp that joins an alliance for a brief contract, then leaves it when it expires. To expect otherwise is to demand an open-ended commitment from everyone who temporarily joins an alliance to fight for cash.
Please don't make EVE boring just because someone alliance-hops to go after a specific entity.
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Riceball Wingding
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Posted - 2007.01.11 21:15:00 -
[114]
Originally by: ChrisFish Edited by: ChrisFish on 11/01/2007 18:19:41
Originally by: Riceball Wingding
After much soul searching and staring into the sun I've decided that this is an EXPLOIT! And on another note, food tastes better if you eat it.
Good thing you aren't a GM. You aren't even a main.
Still, not an exploit.
Please let this thread die now. Please.
It IS and EXPLOIT (with capital letters and everything) so you shut up and admit it.
I bet you eat beans and fart stinkies. I don't like you
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Bawldeux IV
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2007.01.11 22:49:00 -
[115]
Originally by: Cmdr Sy
Originally by: Bawldeux IV AS LONG AS IT IS AN ALLIANCE DOING IT AS A WHOLE, IT IS NOT AN EXPLOIT TO HOP IN AND OUT OF A CORP OR ALLIANCE TO EVADE WAR PENALTIES SUCH AS "NO SAFETY IN EMPIRE".
You do realise what Privateers is? It is a vehicle constantly at war with the rest of EVE. If a corp joins for a week, leaves for a week, then rejoins for a week, how is that an exploit? then why the fsck hop out of the alliance, other then to be safe? isn't that an exploit of the mechanic??The corp is not escaping to avoid a war, it goes straight back into one. What "safety in Empire" is it buying when it hops back into the biggest warzone in EVE? Are you seriously suggesting that a corp would leave that alliance specifically to avoid a brief period when it is at war with another specific corp? No-one is so special as to stand out from 10-20k other war targets. well geee, DUHHHHHHH isnt that wtf you just described above???? hop out to get some isk generated, then back into the war, make your isk in the safety of a corp that is not part of the war(because you hopped out to make isk)?
Perhaps the reverse is true and people want to join Privateers only on those occasions when it is contracted against a specific corp or alliance? ohhh so it is ok to hop in to an alliance just for the easy ganks, then hop out to be safe when you need to make some isk, then hop in when you got isk to burn?? If they are hopping in and out for the duration of war decs against a specific opponent, the only possible exploit is not having to pay a few mil per week, which is a moot point as the alliance explicitly states all wars are already paid for by third parties. In other words, that is legitimate use of game mechanics. you said it yourself, it is an exploit, not the intended use of the game mechanic
More to the point, declaring that an exploit would nerf pretty much every merc corp that joins an alliance for a brief contract, then leaves it when it expires. To expect otherwise is to demand an open-ended commitment from everyone who temporarily joins an alliance to fight for cash.mercs are hired to war dec, they do not need to join an alliance to do so, but this is comparing apples to oranges
Please don't make EVE boring just because someone alliance-hops to go after a specific entity. alliance hop, corp hop, all to evade any penalty for shooting your enemy...ya, this could never be seen as an exploit of a flawed game mechanic...if fixing this flaw makes the game boring, then eve is not fun as it was designed/intended, and we all need to leave it for a game without the flaws, the lag, the constant abuse of exploitable bugs...
but here is a solution to all those corps being griefed by this exploit.
disolve the corp or put an alt in charge, everyone else leaves the corp, members form up in a system, all under the flag of whatever npc corp they have to be a part of, and work together using the gang-mechanics system.
gangs can rat, mine, mission run together, and no exploiters can war dec you.
simple yet effective way to play safe from those exploiting the war dec system.
assetts are safe with the ceo's alt corp, and players are not subjected to pansies that can't take a risk of being at war when they want to make isk. when the allaince hopping grief corp ends its war, you can rejoin your old corp or form another. same basic actions as the alliance hoppers, and a gm says it is not an exploit.
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Cmdr Sy
Appetite 4 Destruction
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Posted - 2007.01.11 23:08:00 -
[116]
OK, so a corp that joins an alliance is in it until the executor dissolves it. Gotcha.
And yes, merc corps can and some do temporarily join alliances if that is the nature of the contract. Presumably they should then be penalised for wreaking havoc and then leaving until next time.
This is nothing at all like carebears hiding in an NPC corp after a war dec.
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Bawldeux IV
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2007.01.12 00:33:00 -
[117]
Originally by: Cmdr Sy OK, so a corp that joins an alliance is in it until the executor dissolves it. Gotcha.
And yes, merc corps can and some do temporarily join alliances if that is the nature of the contract. Presumably they should then be penalised for wreaking havoc and then leaving until next time.
This is nothing at all like carebears hiding in an NPC corp after a war dec.
well lets look at what i said. hmm nope don't see that I said that anywhere, they can leave, they just can't play the hopping game. so stop acting like a fscking moron and pay attention;
hopping in and out of a corp or alliance to have safe time you would not have if you followed the intended use of the game mechanic makes it an exploit..is that simple enough for your little pod brain to understand?
a gm that says it is not either has their head up their arse, or is too fscking worried that they may have to actualy investigate something instead of ignoring the exploiters.
don't try to twist the basic concept with BS and spinlogic.
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Cmdr Sy
Appetite 4 Destruction
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Posted - 2007.01.12 00:46:00 -
[118]
Your argument is lost among the insults. Repost please.
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Bawldeux IV
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2007.01.12 00:50:00 -
[119]
Originally by: Cmdr Sy Your argument is lost among the insults. Repost please.
corp/alliance hopping to evade the penalties of being in a war you choose too partake in, is an exploit.
short and simple
ps, the insults only count if you think the word "acting" is the same as "you are".
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Rayvonuk
Privateers
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Posted - 2007.01.12 00:50:00 -
[120]
Edited by: Rayvonuk on 12/01/2007 00:53:10
Originally by: Sattracer Edited by: Sattracer on 11/01/2007 11:40:57
Originally by: widgetman Just my Two Pence worth.............I was in Privateers , iam not an alt , and have played Eve for some 3 Years. The whole idea of this corp was to have fun and enjoy the game, which i did whilst i was in Privateers. People whining about if its fair to leave and re-join etc need to grow up and play the game. Most of these alliances which are war decced have a majority of people who have skills in fighting , and thier own navy forces etc. I enjoyed the time i messed about in Privateers, and feel sorry for those who think its an exploit.
But then, Privateers are the carebears of pirates. Lacking nerve and fortitude, they prey on noobs and defenseless ships and use every exploit they can. And I don't care how fuzzy you make your logic, an exploit is still an exploit. I have PERSONALLY capped their CEO on at least one occasion, and enjoyed using those TECH II Hammerheads he dropped from that blasterthron. Muahahaha. The fact that they do lack the prowess of real pvp'ers is the reason for the continuous war declarations. They simply do not have what it takes to be a viable force in 0.0. Anyone joining them has now flagged himself as a limp noodle, no respect or fear to be afforded to this person, carry on. In fact, a declaration of war in itself is purely the act of a diaperdandy. A NOOB with aspirations of one day being a real PVP player. If you got the stones, go on out to low sec, join a real alliance, and fight for something worth fighting for. Otherwise, enjoy your pampers.
Some other dude gutted because we got him i guess. Doesnt quite know what hes talking about too, 0.0, why keep metioning that ? If we wanted to go there i'd join a 0.0 alliance not privateers. We do not want to be a viable force there, If your going to say crap about us at least have the decency to read up first, where you will find that we dont care about the rubbish of which you speak. Its a game m8 chill.
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