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Xzanos
Fools Resurrection
0
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Posted - 2015.11.18 16:22:03 -
[1] - Quote
Hey fellow space pilots, I'm here trying to gain some info from you all. This will be a short post but i would like you guys to categorize the 4 main races ships from 1-4 where 1 is the most powerful and 4 being the weakest. If you would like to provide a short explanation that would be helpful but i really just want a general opinion.
And please don't just spam BUFF X!! NERF Y!! |
Ultim8Evil
30plus Fidelas Constans
287
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Posted - 2015.11.18 16:26:58 -
[2] - Quote
Define "ships"
Subcaps? Caps? Supers? Haulers?
Follow me on Twitter for literally no good reason @TheUltim8Evil
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ChromeStriker
Out of Focus Odin's Call
968
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Posted - 2015.11.18 16:33:20 -
[3] - Quote
do you want to take into account cross training? both in weapons, tank, and/or pirate ships?
No Worries
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Xzanos
Fools Resurrection
0
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Posted - 2015.11.18 16:39:16 -
[4] - Quote
Well we are off to a fine start! I apologize if i did not specify a particular ship class but i was just looking for a general overview of the races as a whole while some races may shine more than others i feel there is still a general scale of power that can be drawn up between the races.
And im not trying to take into account any training. Assume all pilots are gods with all lvl 5 skills. |
Titus Heldane
Militaris Industries Northern Coalition.
30
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Posted - 2015.11.18 16:53:14 -
[5] - Quote
thats a terrible question.
cruisers? depends. fleet cruisers? amarr. solo cruisers? gallente. EWAR cruisers? caldari. fast cruisers? minmatar. and so on and so on for every single ship class.
IMO the game is really well balanced and each race has their own advantages, there is no 'best' race, only for specific situations. |
Xzanos
Fools Resurrection
0
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Posted - 2015.11.18 17:43:46 -
[6] - Quote
Ok obviously you guys need more specifics.
Just give me your opinion on each races ships by class when in a fleet setting.
Frigate Cruiser Battlecruiser Battleship
Just stick with T1 and Faction hulls. |
RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
1166
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Posted - 2015.11.18 18:07:39 -
[7] - Quote
In my opinion:
You can't really do a blanket statement that says one race is the best.
Each race has some specialized hulls in different hull classes, that make them popular. But over all the "BEST" is subjective. One of your specifics should be what YOUR end goal is, or your intended use of the information.
Caldari = Missiles / capless weapons shield tank E-war easy to fly two weapons systems for one race seems to be PvE oriented
Gallente = Drones great brawler / short range, high DPS
Minmatar = Capless weapons speed utility slots interchangeable tanks high skilling requirements best alpha strike
Amarr = great tank focused/limited DPS attribute (EM) can do drones can do missiles neut bonused
Not just the races, but within each ship class, those ships can be fit different for different applications. Tempest can be fit several ways Mega can have more tank, or more DPS Even frigates can be fit for speed, tank, or DPS. Carriers can rep or fit for solo PvE.
Edit here: If your trying to fit into alliance fleet ops, just ask your CEO what he wants. |
Xzanos
Fools Resurrection
0
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Posted - 2015.11.18 18:20:45 -
[8] - Quote
RavenPaine wrote:In my opinion:
You can't really do a blanket statement that says one race is the best.
Each race has some specialized hulls in different hull classes, that make them popular. But over all the "BEST" is subjective. One of your specifics should be what YOUR end goal is, or your intended use of the information.
Thank you for the great reply, I guess my intent for the information was to see if my own feeling were correct. I have been playing the game since 2004 and i have seen a lot of change in many different areas of the game but something that has always stood out is how certain races seem to be able to come out on top with less pilot experience and less supporting skills for the ship. I would think that max skills for a ship would win against skills at lvl 3 ( ofc this is in a situation where neither ship is being completely countered ) but from my experience this is not the case by far. |
Titus Heldane
Militaris Industries Northern Coalition.
31
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Posted - 2015.11.18 18:24:45 -
[9] - Quote
Xzanos wrote:Ok obviously you guys need more specifics.
Just give me your opinion on each races ships by class when in a fleet setting.
Frigate Cruiser Battlecruiser Battleship
Just stick with T1 and Faction hulls.
the thing is, this is still horribly unspecific, but based on personal preference itd be this:
Frigate - kitey tristans, gallente Cruiser - mallers/vexors, amarr/gallente Battlecruiser - prophecy, amarr Battleship - tempest, minmatar
t1 hulls only |
Chainsaw Plankton
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
2037
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Posted - 2015.11.18 18:54:26 -
[10] - Quote
caldari 1-4 gallente 1-4 amarr 1-4 minmatar 1-4
a meaningful ranking at the race level is simply impossible. I suppose I could go through and rank every ship 1-4 and take a racial average, but I'm not sure it would be meaningful, and also it would require a lot of effort.
Luckily for us Gorski Car already did it, although given the rate of changes in eve these days some things may have shifted around. http://crossingzebras.com/small-gang-tier-list-part-1-frigates/ http://crossingzebras.com/small-gang-tier-list-part-2-cruisers/ http://crossingzebras.com/battlecruiser-tier-list/ http://crossingzebras.com/small-gang-tier-list-part-4-battleships/
@ChainsawPlankto
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Xzanos
Fools Resurrection
1
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Posted - 2015.11.18 20:20:34 -
[11] - Quote
So basically anyone who wants to fly race specific should just quit eve... because 80 % of your ships will have their roll done better by another race. |
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
2415
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Posted - 2015.11.18 22:13:37 -
[12] - Quote
Xzanos wrote:So basically anyone who wants to fly race specific should just quit eve... because 80 % of your ships will have their roll done better by another race.
What the hell? Who said that? |
Iyokus Patrouette
Sudden Buggery
592
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Posted - 2015.11.18 22:40:04 -
[13] - Quote
Gallente Ships best ships, all other races are trash tier. \o/
---- Advocate for the initiation of purple coloured wormholes----
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Tohkat Sinawi
Sinawi Exploration Corp
5
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Posted - 2015.11.18 22:52:48 -
[14] - Quote
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:caldari 1-4 gallente 1-4 amarr 1-4 minmatar 1-4
I wanted to reply just to say the above. Now that I'm capable of fulfilling the necessary roles (i.e. combat, hauling, scanning, etc.) I'm beginning to train... not for specific ROLES... but for specific SHIPS. Consider the T2 Recons (cruiser-class):
Amarr version: Tracking Disruptor + Energy Vamp bonuses Caldari version: ECM Jammer bonuses Gallente version: Remote Sensor Damp + Warp Scram bonuses Minmatar version: Target Painter + Webifier bonuses
...so... if you can find a valid way to compare these things... excellent! ...but in all honesty, they each fit into any given fleet/encounter in somewhat different ways. As such, claiming that one is better than the other comes down to a FAR more nuanced discussion about tank/gank/utility/popularity/pvpmeta/etc... and there just isn't one clear winner over all the rest.
The real questions should be:
- Do you prefer shield tanking or armor tanking?
- What weapon system(s) are you most partial to?
- What colors & designs do you like most with regards to the 4 main factions?
...yes... it comes down to things THAT subjective... why? Because by the time that you begin to train for those specific T2 hulls with their precise bonuses and roles, you'll know "I want this ship because of XYZ." Until then... go pew pew in ship that "rep rep good good." If you don't like how it looks/feels, you won't wanna fly it... and while one might be better than the rest objectively, every race has viable ships along the way.
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Xzanos
Fools Resurrection
1
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Posted - 2015.11.19 00:51:47 -
[15] - Quote
Im just going to come out and say it. I fly 100% Minmatar. That said i can not for the life of me find out what actually viable role most of our ships are supposed to fit into. I understand volley and know that it is a tactic used in fleets to nullify the effectiveness of enemy logistics. But what else is there? |
RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
1166
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Posted - 2015.11.19 01:36:11 -
[16] - Quote
Minmatar specific roles can be subjective as well.
Hurricane used to be an awesome BC. I think the Navy version is basically the same now. It can be fit with 220's- frigate killer elite 720's- kitey sniper of cruisers and other BC 425's- shoots ships of the same size and bigger Armor tank Shield tank
Tempest, can be flown like an oversized BC Snipe with 1200's, great alpha armor tank shield tank 800 auto's for up closer utility fits galore, neuts, RR, TP, duel prop, etc
Rapier GREAT small gang web application
Rupture cheap, good tank great damage for a cruiser
Typhoon OMG the best BS ever! (Megathron is good too, Geddon used to be a beast on it's own.) Great torp platform 2 utility hi-slots
Thrasher no need to spell it out everyone knows what thrashers do best
Nagelfar Best dread imo.
Broadsword Super tank
Vagabond Probably the original kite/snipe platform Fast in and out Easy to disengage and buzz off
Minmatar have lots of ships that can fit into lots of doctrines. Very flexible They have the fastest light drones. Missiles Guns
EVE is kind of in a rut for the last 2 or 3 years. Frigates online.... If the game called for more, bigger fleet comps, you would have more experience in those areas. The only way to fully FEEL/understand the ship is to fly them regularly.
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Sheeth Athonille
Rabid Dogz Mining Void..
57
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Posted - 2015.11.19 02:29:33 -
[17] - Quote
Disclaimer, I have very limited knowledge and will be going purely off personal feelings, feel free to rip them apart for being bad
I have a feeling when you say what are they best, you kind of mean, what are the easiest?
If so, I personally think that caldari are the easiest for pve (fewer skills to properly tank, missiles are one of the easier weapon systems to understand when you're first starting out, you don't have to worry too much about cap, etc.).
If you mean for pvp, I'm tempted to say either minmatar for projectile weapons (no cap, instant damage, damage selection, high alpha, etc.), or caldari for their ewar (ecm, though it's not as op as it used to be :P ). That said, minmatar ships usually aren't as tanky as the other races, so a small mistake can be amplified. Of course the more tanky ships (amarr and gallente mostly) rely on brawling more heavily and have to be careful choosing their enemy.
But yeah, as others have said it's difficult to just straight up rank what's best and what's worst. Perhaps a better aproach would be to try and figure out what weapon types tend to be "better" (projectiles for ammo selection or hybrid for high dps imho), what type of tank is better (shield for pve and kitey stuff, armor for larger fleets), and what kind of ewar (damps and ecm hands down). |
Mephiztopheleze
Republic University Minmatar Republic
338
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Posted - 2015.11.19 03:05:00 -
[18] - Quote
My $0.02 based on my limited experience:
In no particular order:
Best Combat Frigates: Comet, Daredevil, Tristan. Best Tackle Frigates: Dramiel, Garmur, Keres *daylight* Best EWAR Frigates: Keres, Sentinel, Kitsune, Vigil, Maulus. NOTE: The Navy Vigil promises to be a pretty spectacular little support hull.
Occasional Resident Newbie Correspondent for TMC: http://themittani.com/search/site/mephiztopheleze
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ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Snuffed Out
8971
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Posted - 2015.11.19 06:09:16 -
[19] - Quote
Xzanos wrote:Im just going to come out and say it. I fly 100% Minmatar. That said i can not for the life of me find out what actually viable role most of our ships are supposed to fit into. I understand volley and know that it is a tactic used in fleets to nullify the effectiveness of enemy logistics. But what else is there? If you are relatively new to PvP then I suggest you poke around New Citizens Q&A for awhile. Lots of good information in there.
There was a newbie who, not too long ago, asked about PvP using Minmatar ships. He got a plethora of advice. Ah, here it is.
The advice I am going to give you here is this;
A ship by itself won't do much and can't be clearly categorized or quantified (as you are trying to attempt in this thread). It is the fittings that determine what it can do and how it can do it. Mind you... some ships are better with certain fittings and tactics (as determined by their native stats and bonuses), but almost all ships of all races can be shoehorned in any tactic if you are creative enough.
Some examples; A Breecher can be fit for brawling OR it can be fit to kite the enemy. The difference will lie in how it is fit. Fit with Rockets and an Afterburner you can brawl quite effectively. However you will be vulnerable to hostiles that are faster than you. If you fit the Breecher with Light Missiles and a Microwardrive, you can pull and maintain range over other targets... however your damage output might be lacking against more beefy ships. And either way, you should take advantage of the active tanking bonus on the ship as it increases your staying power... except against targets will high volley strikes.
You can also fly around in a Slasher. It is generally faster than a Breecher and has an added "Role Bonus" that cuts the capacitor needs of Warp Disruptors/Scramblers... making it ideal for running down and "pinning" targets. The tradeoff is that a Slasher is more flimsy and can't tank as effectively as a Breecher. However, you can compensate by taking advantage of the Slasher's ample mid-slots; fitting a Tracking Disruptor or a Sensor Dampener can afford you better survivability against certain kinds of targets... depending on whether you intend to be at close or long range from your target. Just be mindful that Minmatar ships have smaller than average capacitors and may not be able to run such mods for long (in conjunction with everything else you are trying to run).
Try flying around in small PvP gangs. Listen and watch what they do. When you see their fits, have them explain what each mod is supposed to do.
How did you Veterans start?
The Skillpoint System and You
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Bastion Arzi
Angry Mustellid Decayed Orbit
299
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Posted - 2015.11.19 11:08:40 -
[20] - Quote
this is a silly question becuase the pirate ships are obviously the best.
eg daredevil
400 dps that fits into a novice with a 90% web.
eg succubus
can engage and disengage at will.
etc
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ChromeStriker
Out of Focus Odin's Call
968
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Posted - 2015.11.19 12:23:30 -
[21] - Quote
Bastion Arzi wrote:
eg succubus
can engage and disengage at will.
etc
Unfortunatly not true Anemic dps, easilly kited, relativly squishy and completely screwed by any type of neut... And thats not taking into account T3D's R us...
There is word of a buff coming tho... will have to see if they go far enough
No Worries
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Bastion Arzi
Angry Mustellid Decayed Orbit
299
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Posted - 2015.11.19 12:28:31 -
[22] - Quote
i thought it was an iffy statement tbh.
the dd is also screwed by any neut |
ChromeStriker
Out of Focus Odin's Call
968
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Posted - 2015.11.19 12:39:23 -
[23] - Quote
Bastion Arzi wrote:i thought it was an iffy statement tbh.
the dd is also screwed by any neut
Yeah but it has 90% webs... NINETY PER CENT!!!!
No Worries
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Bastion Arzi
Angry Mustellid Decayed Orbit
299
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Posted - 2015.11.19 12:43:36 -
[24] - Quote
lol yeah so either rails + navy web @ ~230dps
or risk neuts w blasters
also succubus in small neut range? |
ChromeStriker
Out of Focus Odin's Call
968
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Posted - 2015.11.19 12:52:02 -
[25] - Quote
Bastion Arzi wrote:lol yeah so either rails + navy web @ ~230dps
or risk neuts w blasters
also succubus in small neut range?
If you dont turn off theyre MWDs either a Frig will outrun you or you will have little to no transversal against a cruiser... both mean death
With the DD... your doing 300-400 blaster dps... if you catch something in web range you'll likely kill it before you cap out... well... one hopes lol
No Worries
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Xzanos
Fools Resurrection
1
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Posted - 2015.11.19 17:52:37 -
[26] - Quote
ShahFluffers wrote:Xzanos wrote:Im just going to come out and say it. I fly 100% Minmatar. That said i can not for the life of me find out what actually viable role most of our ships are supposed to fit into. I understand volley and know that it is a tactic used in fleets to nullify the effectiveness of enemy logistics. But what else is there? If you are relatively new to PvP then I suggest you poke around New Citizens Q&A for awhile. Lots of good information in there. Some examples; A Breecher can be fit for brawling OR it can be fit to kite the enemy. The difference will lie in how it is fit. Fit with Rockets and an Afterburner you can brawl quite effectively. However you will be vulnerable to hostiles that are faster than you. If you fit the Breecher with Light Missiles and a Microwardrive, you can pull and maintain range over other targets... however your damage output might be lacking against more beefy ships. And either way, you should take advantage of the active tanking bonus on the ship as it increases your staying power... except against targets will high volley strikes. You can also fly around in a Slasher. It is generally faster than a Breecher and has an added "Role Bonus" that cuts the capacitor needs of Warp Disruptors/Scramblers... making it ideal for running down and "pinning" targets. The tradeoff is that a Slasher is more flimsy and can't tank as effectively as a Breecher. However, you can compensate by taking advantage of the Slasher's ample mid-slots; fitting a Tracking Disruptor or a Sensor Dampener can afford you better survivability against certain kinds of targets... depending on whether you intend to be at close or long range from your target. Just be mindful that Minmatar ships have smaller than average capacitors and may not be able to run such mods for long (in conjunction with everything else you are trying to run).
Both of the ships in the above example are IMO the best Minmatar frigates currently, but what can you fight? In a 1v1 the breacher is out brawled by pretty much any other brawling ship and a kitting breacher is done better by a kestrel, same goes for fleet setting. While the slasher can be extremely effective against some targets using the TD, the amount of targets is very very limited and in a fleet setting does not have the dps projection nor tank to survive.
I was recently in a group of 5 rocket breachers, and 5 tormentors warp in. With drones already out we primary the first target and... are all dead within 1 min and did not get a single kill. Yes we were all in range and applying dps... i just cant see this a balanced. Sure we could have been using light missiles and stayed out of range but again this roll is better suited for a kestrel.
**** talk and call me a scrub and noob all you want but when all you fly is the ships that are the "best" Its really hard to see the ships that are lacking.
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Titus Heldane
Militaris Industries Northern Coalition.
34
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Posted - 2015.11.20 15:13:15 -
[27] - Quote
a breachers active tank will just get overwhelmed against multiple opponents. tormentors have a big buffer and are better suited to fleet work. however, a breacher has a fairly decent chance of soloing a tormentor since he has range control and a good tank compared to the low dps of a torm. every ship can beat any other ship (within reason), depending on the circumstances. |
Xzanos
Fools Resurrection
1
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Posted - 2015.11.20 17:02:56 -
[28] - Quote
Titus Heldane wrote:a breachers active tank will just get overwhelmed against multiple opponents. tormentors have a big buffer and are better suited to fleet work. however, a breacher has a fairly decent chance of soloing a tormentor since he has range control and a good tank compared to the low dps of a torm. every ship can beat any other ship (within reason), depending on the circumstances.
This may be true in a 1v1 scenario but when you enter the fleet realm its really a different story. Even with the new changes coming to Minmatar frigates there is really not a good choice for a fleet doctrine in comparison to other races. |
elitatwo
Eve Minions The-Company
909
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Posted - 2015.11.21 20:15:05 -
[29] - Quote
ChromeStriker wrote:Bastion Arzi wrote:lol yeah so either rails + navy web @ ~230dps
or risk neuts w blasters
also succubus in small neut range? If you dont turn off theyre MWDs either a Frig will outrun you or you will have little to no transversal against a cruiser... both mean death With the DD... your doing 300-400 blaster dps... if you catch something in web range you'll likely kill it before you cap out... well... one hopes lol
I will toast dat daredevil with that 5000 bajillion dps long before you are in web range in my Succubus, yarrr.
Eve Minions is recruiting. Learn from about pvp, learn about ships and how to fly them correctly. Small gang and solo action in high, low and nullsec and w-space alike.
We will teach you everything you need and want to know.
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W0lf Crendraven
Welfcorp
396
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Posted - 2015.11.22 09:20:07 -
[30] - Quote
The question is pretty terrible tbh.
Take the sacrilege - its a horrible ship for all sorts of pve, its a bad solo or micro gang pvp ship, its a horrible large scale pvp fit - yet its one of the best small scale - med scale ships there is and by far the best hac atm for that. Impossible to rate that.
That said, minmatar is by far the worst race of the all, all other 3 are fairly well balanced between themselves but minmatar ships suck. Svipul opness is their saving grace but that wont last much longer. |
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