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Cidanel Afuran
Static-Noise Upholders
421
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Posted - 2015.11.18 16:40:48 -
[31] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:but somebody has to do it dont they? so that is the weakest argument ive ever heard
Absolutely, but I have yet to see a well established null group that doesn't have people who are more than happy to haul instead of maxing isk/hr when in game. More often than not, finding someone to haul for you is easy. |
Globby
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
285
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Posted - 2015.11.18 16:43:35 -
[32] - Quote
Cidanel Afuran wrote:Lan Wang wrote:but somebody has to do it dont they? so that is the weakest argument ive ever heard Absolutely, but I have yet to see a well established null group that doesn't have people who are more than happy to haul instead of maxing isk/hr when in game. More often than not, finding someone to haul for you is easy. and farming incursions is easier tbh |
Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat FETID
1857
|
Posted - 2015.11.18 16:45:37 -
[33] - Quote
Cidanel Afuran wrote:Lan Wang wrote:but somebody has to do it dont they? so that is the weakest argument ive ever heard Absolutely, but I have yet to see a well established null group that doesn't have people who are more than happy to haul instead of maxing isk/hr when in game. More often than not, finding someone to haul for you is easy.
Keyword here "established"
Drinking rum before 10am makes you a pirate, not an alcoholic | Angel Cartel | Serpentis |
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Jenn aSide
Ascendent. Test Alliance Please Ignore
12955
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Posted - 2015.11.18 16:47:05 -
[34] - Quote
Cidanel Afuran wrote:
Null isn't comparable, though. You don't have to move anything. You just pay your alliance hauling service to do it for you.
While in high sec you pay nothing, you just fly your ship to where it needs to be. Thanks for helping my prove that point.
Quote: Simply factor in that cost. It's completely disingenuous to talk about the effort of the organization in null without acknowledging the benefits you get from it. You don't have CONCORD, but you do have intel channels with hundreds of players for dozens of systems out telling you when anyone who isn't blue is getting close. That's more powerful than CONCORD will ever be.
This is simply untrue. "intel channels" don't help you if a wormhole pops up in your system and raiders come popping out. "Intel channels" don't work if there is no one in the system where people pass through. CONCORD works all the time, automatically, where people are watching or not.
And it's really funny to see someone type the words "It's completely disingenuous to talk about the effort of the organization in null without acknowledging the benefits you get from it. " while not acknowledging the truth of how much high sec helps you.
I posted links to high sec players who have demonstrated the issue. Where is the evidence of what you believe?
Quote: Also, easy with the sarcasm tiger. I was simply pointing out someone running three accounts doesn't make 235m isk/hr. He makes 1/3 of that. Do you disagree with that statement, or did you completely miss the point of what I said?
Your point is wrong. Assets totalling 235 million isk went into Wallets (and Journals) controlled by the player known as Arthur Aihaken. That they didn't go into ONE wallet/journal he controlled is irrevelvant. When in null triple boxing a mach and 2 ishtars and making 180isk mil per hour, that's MY isk, just like the isk and LP he generates is his.
The real difference is the 1st link I posted, while Arthur and I are paying for 3 accounts to generate that isk, the writer of that guide in the 1st link is only paying for 1 (plus the overhead invovled with gathering the right ships and fits and the occasional burner mission ship loss). That demonstrates a further (but still high sec centric) imbalance.
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Cidanel Afuran
Static-Noise Upholders
421
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Posted - 2015.11.18 16:48:10 -
[35] - Quote
Globby wrote:and farming incursions is easier tbh
Oh, I agree. I should have been more clear about that. Incursions are incredible isk, given the lack of risk with them. I was talking more about the mission runners who claim 200m isk/hr, but leave out the fact it takes them three accounts to do it.
Lan Wang wrote:Keyword here "established"
Agreed, but if you're going to null to make isk, joining anything but a well established group isn't the optimal way to go. |
Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat FETID
1857
|
Posted - 2015.11.18 16:50:10 -
[36] - Quote
Cidanel Afuran wrote:Agreed, but if you're going to null to make isk, joining anything but a well established group isn't the optimal way to go.
AND THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT IS WRONG WITH NULLSEC
mission running is usually done solo in npc nullsec so forget anything about established corps and think about people who run pirate missions in nullsec who are not part of "established" groups
Drinking rum before 10am makes you a pirate, not an alcoholic | Angel Cartel | Serpentis |
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Jenn aSide
Ascendent. Test Alliance Please Ignore
12955
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Posted - 2015.11.18 16:50:52 -
[37] - Quote
Globby wrote:lol if you think highsec cant have intel channels
lol if you think 200m/hr with one character doing incursions is fair gameplay
lol if you think you cant multibox 5 characters in incursions and make a bil an hour (i did it)
Behold Madness. (a kind of madness only made possible by high sec, because this would get the crap ganked out of it in low or null\).
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Jenn aSide
Ascendent. Test Alliance Please Ignore
12955
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Posted - 2015.11.18 16:52:53 -
[38] - Quote
Cidanel Afuran wrote:
I was talking more about the mission runners who claim 200m isk/hr, but leave out the fact it takes them three accounts to do it.
The 1st link. Allow me to copy/paste for you:
Quote:Foreword
With the introduction of Burner missions to Lv4 mission agents it has become somewhat trivial to consistently make well in excess of 200million isk per hour with just a little bit of training and preparation. This can be done on a single, well trained character in the relative safety of Hi-Sec, indefinitely. ---
Quote:
Agreed, but if you're going to null to make isk, joining anything but a well established group isn't the optimal way to go.
While in high you can make more, SOLO, in safety.
Again, thanks for the help proving the point, you've been invaluable. |
Kirk Ernaga
Arbiters of the Void Advent of Fate
16
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Posted - 2015.11.18 17:04:04 -
[39] - Quote
Globby wrote:Kirk Ernaga wrote:Mina Sebiestar wrote:Kirk Ernaga wrote:Lore wise I don't even feel that incursion make sense anymore, with sansha getting his ass handed to him so many times. I mean come on, I don't even thin PL could handle losing that many MOMs Agreed but at same time i am against removal of team pve from high sec at least....it's just too much good,relaxing, compared to solo farming l4.burners even if later nets you more isk. Yes I can agree with that. Alot of people would also just rage quit if you removed incursions. self entitlement much lmao Yeah I agree. Though I think that ccp so **** with the player base more, and like make random incursions super-super hard. May noot be the best move for a business pov but watching zkill and the forums would hilarious. |
Cidanel Afuran
Static-Noise Upholders
421
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Posted - 2015.11.18 17:08:14 -
[40] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:While in high sec you pay nothing, you just fly your ship to where it needs to be. Thanks for helping my prove that point.
I was simply addressing your claim that there is personal risk in moving ships to null. No need to turn a simple statement into an argument.
Quote:This is simply untrue. "intel channels" don't help you if a wormhole pops up in your system and raiders come popping out. "Intel channels" don't work if there is no one in the system where people pass through. CONCORD works all the time, automatically, where people are watching or not.
And it's really funny to see someone type the words "It's completely disingenuous to talk about the effort of the organization in null without acknowledging the benefits you get from it. " while not acknowledging the truth of how much high sec helps you.
I posted links to high sec players who have demonstrated the issue. Where is the evidence of what you believe?
Why do you hold sov in a system in null that no one lives in/spends time in? Maybe that's evidence of an empire that's bigger than it should be more than anything.
I do agree that HS helps you. Obviously. It's designed to help. I'm just pointing out that living in a well established null alliance is extremely safe for PvE-ers.
And why someone wouldn't immediately check what a new sig is and report it in intel if it's a WH is beyond me...
Quote:Your point is wrong. Assets totalling 235 million isk went into Wallets (and Journals) controlled by the player known as Arthur Aihaken. That they didn't go into ONE wallet/journal he controlled is irrevelvant. When in null triple boxing a mach and 2 ishtars and making 180isk mil per hour, that's MY isk, just like the isk and LP he generates is his.
The real difference is the 1st link I posted, while Arthur and I are paying for 3 accounts to generate that isk, the writer of that guide in the 1st link is only paying for 1 (plus the overhead invovled with gathering the right ships and fits and the occasional burner mission ship loss). That demonstrates a further (but still high sec centric) imbalance.
I disagree completely with that point. isk/hr is a per account figure, not per person. If one person with one account can make 100m isk/hr, and a second person has three accounts making a net total of 100m isk/hr, those are two completely different scenarios.
You yourself admitted null ratting can give more isk/hr than incursions. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=399622
Look, to me null vs HS isn't about increasing the ISK you can make as much as it is about helping to build an empire. People who care about maxing isk/hr are missing something in the game (in my opinion). To some being in a fleet and working together to take on difficult PvE content (incursions) is fun. Great. To others being solo/in very small groups in deep dangerous space in a player run empire (null ratting) is fun. Great for them as well. I've done null ratting and incursions. They are both fun for completely different reasons, and none of those have to do with isk.
Jenn - I'm not trying to fight, not trying to prove you wrong. Just having a conversation. Tone can be hard to read online, so I didn't mean to come across argumentative. |
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Globby
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
286
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Posted - 2015.11.18 17:15:00 -
[41] - Quote
Cidanel Afuran wrote: :words:
bruh |
Cidanel Afuran
Static-Noise Upholders
421
|
Posted - 2015.11.18 17:33:22 -
[42] - Quote
time for hugs? |
Jenn aSide
Ascendent. Test Alliance Please Ignore
12956
|
Posted - 2015.11.18 17:49:00 -
[43] - Quote
Cidanel Afuran wrote:
Why do you hold sov in a system in null that no one lives in/spends time in? Maybe that's evidence of an empire that's bigger than it should be more than anything.
I do agree that HS helps you. Obviously. It's designed to help. I'm just pointing out that living in a well established null alliance is extremely safe for PvE-ers.
And why someone wouldn't immediately check what a new sig is and report it in intel if it's a WH is beyond me...
Who said we don't. You do know that it takes no time for people running a wormhole to come pouring out it as soon as it pops up. I've personally had an alt in warp to a wormhole with Appetite for Destruction came pouring out of it.
It sounds like you don't have much experience with null sec.
Quote: I disagree completely with that point. isk/hr is a per account figure, not per person.
Says who, exactly?
You might want to go back and re-read that, I said nothing of the sort.
Quote: Look, to me null vs HS isn't about increasing the ISK you can make as much as it is about helping to build an empire. People who care about maxing isk/hr are missing something in the game (in my opinion). To some being in a fleet and working together to take on difficult PvE content (incursions) is fun. Great. To others being solo/in very small groups in deep dangerous space in a player run empire (null ratting) is fun. Great for them as well. I've done null ratting and incursions. They are both fun for completely different reasons, and none of those have to do with isk.
This is the same cop out the original incursion communities made before the 1st incursion nerf. They said "it's not about the isk, it's about the community!" CCP nerfed the isk, the communities died, exposing the lie.
Fixing the awful combat pve imbalances (centered on high sec but also in places like FW, aslthought it's not that bad in FW anymore, it's still pretty unbalanced) this game has isn't about increasing or decreasing imaginary money in someone's wallet, it';s about fixing a part of the game that is broken. That broken nature leads to bad things.
For example, 4 and a half years ago CCP altered the system in null to "create more reasons to fight". it failed to create more fights. it succeeded in getting many of us to either move PVE alts to high sec to run incursions or make PVe alts from scratch for the same purpose.
Later, CCP exacerbated the problem by buffing the already questionable Sister of EVe LP store even more by (for the 1st time) making a 'pirate faction' series of ships available in high sec. This buffed the unholy hell out of everything else in that LP store, virtue implants, probe launchers, sisters probes, the works.
I exploited these imbalances. I ran incursions in a mach on one screen while running This Navy Raven doing SOE missions. So i know what Im talking about. Iv'e returned to null because null is more fun, but the imbalances still affect all of us.
The point is that these imbalances not only exist, they hurt CCPs efforts in other areas of the game (as i linked above, something that was supposed to drive conflict ended up chasing many of us to high sec and contributed to null becoming renter space). Combat PVE is at the heart of EVE's Risk/reward scheme, and when it's broken, EVE is broken.
Quote: Jenn - I'm not trying to fight, not trying to prove you wrong. Just having a conversation. Tone can be hard to read online, so I didn't mean to come across argumentative.
Understand that i've had this same 'discussion' dozens of times, and in them I've watched time and time again some high sec champion ignore testable, observable truth because it doesn't fit with some agenda they have. For the most part i've stopped talking about it on forums and started talking to CCP about it at player events, CCP Quant's 'surprise' at the incursion figures is a sign of the ice melting on this issue.
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Cidanel Afuran
Static-Noise Upholders
421
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Posted - 2015.11.18 18:01:30 -
[44] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Who said we don't. You do know that it takes no time for people running a wormhole to come pouring out it as soon as it pops up. I've personally had an alt in warp to a wormhole with Appetite for Destruction came pouring out of it.
It sounds like you don't have much experience with null sec.
I lived in null for well over a year (a decent chunk of time given I only started in 2013). First in provi, then with SMA. 90% of the time I was the only person scanning down sigs to check if they were WHs.
I'm giving my opinion. Disagree if you want to.
Quote:This is the same cop out the original incursion communities made before the 1st incursion nerf. They said "it's not about the isk, it's about the community!" CCP nerfed the isk, the communities died, exposing the lie. Fixing the awful combat pve imbalances (centered on high sec but also in places like FW, aslthought it's not that bad in FW anymore, it's still pretty unbalanced) this game has isn't about increasing or decreasing imaginary money in someone's wallet, it';s about fixing a part of the game that is broken. That broken nature leads to bad things. For example, 4 and a half years ago CCP altered the system in null to "create more reasons to fight". it failed to create more fights. it succeeded in getting many of us to either move PVE alts to high sec to run incursions or make PVe alts from scratch for the same purpose. Later, CCP exacerbated the problem by buffing the already questionable Sister of EVe LP store even more by (for the 1st time) making a 'pirate faction' series of ships available in high sec. This buffed the unholy hell out of everything else in that LP store, virtue implants, probe launchers, sisters probes, the works. I exploited these imbalances. I ran incursions in a mach on one screen while running This Navy Raven doing SOE missions. So i know what Im talking about. Iv'e returned to null because null is more fun, but the imbalances still affect all of us. The point is that these imbalances not only exist, they hurt CCPs efforts in other areas of the game (as i linked above, something that was supposed to drive conflict ended up chasing many of us to high sec and contributed to null becoming renter space). Combat PVE is at the heart of EVE's Risk/reward scheme, and when it's broken, EVE is broken.
I don't think it's a cop out at all. I think what is broken is players perception of maximizing isk at any cost being the end goal for EVE. Maybe I think differently than a lot of people, but I pay zero attention to ISK. I do what is fun. For a while I lived solo in a low class WH with just me and my alts. I was breaking even on ISK while taking more risk of loss than HS or null. That's fine, because I enjoyed the challenge and experience. My point in all of this was simply that null ratting is a very safe activity for anyone paying attention.
I do think incursions and LPs as a whole need to be looked at, though.
Quote:Understand that i've had this same 'discussion' dozens of times, and in them I've watched time and time again some high sec champion ignore testable, observable truth because it doesn't fit with some agenda they have. For the most part i've stopped talking about it on forums and started talking to CCP about it at player events, CCP Quant's 'surprise' at the incursion figures is a sign of the ice melting on this issue.
I have lived in HS a grand total of two months in my history in EVE. I've never run higher than a level 2 mission. I've lived in null/WHs for all but two months of my time in this game. I don't have an agenda. I just understand the safety of null, and that people choose to live in null vs HS for reasons beyond simple min/maxing isk generation. |
Jenn aSide
Ascendent. Test Alliance Please Ignore
12956
|
Posted - 2015.11.18 18:26:57 -
[45] - Quote
Quote: I've never run higher than a level 2 mission
WTF?
So if you don't have much experience with the issue being talked about Cidaniel, why are you talking about it? I've be a PVE jock for 8 years, i've literally done everything EVE has to offer (even all the COSMOS missions and complexes). I had a feeling you didn't know much, which is why I asked you about your experience in a previous post.
This is a common occurrence, people who know very little about global PVE disagreeing (from a place of ignorance) about something they could see and test for themselves if they were interested in the truth. How about you go look at the Burner Blitz guide, do some of that for a few months, then get back to us on how things work maybe? |
ISD Decoy
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
1391
|
Posted - 2015.11.18 18:28:11 -
[46] - Quote
.... locked.
Quote:5. Trolling is prohibited.
Trolling is a defined as a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting other players in an attempt to incite retaliation or an emotional response. Posts of this nature are disruptive, often abusive, and do not contribute to the sense of community that CCP promote.
ISD Decoy
Captain
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
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Chainsaw Plankton
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
2037
|
Posted - 2015.11.18 18:41:32 -
[47] - Quote
Kirk Ernaga wrote:Mina Sebiestar wrote:Kirk Ernaga wrote:Lore wise I don't even feel that incursion make sense anymore, with sansha getting his ass handed to him so many times. I mean come on, I don't even thin PL could handle losing that many MOMs Agreed but at same time i am against removal of team pve from high sec at least....it's just too much good,relaxing, compared to solo farming l4.burners even if later nets you more isk. Yes I can agree with that. Alot of people would also just rage quit if you removed incursions. I have a better idea lets just start taxing the 1% of players that do run incursions! concord is expensive, redistribute the wealth, PLEX is too damn high ect!
@ChainsawPlankto
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Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat FETID
1861
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Posted - 2015.11.18 18:45:47 -
[48] - Quote
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:Kirk Ernaga wrote:Mina Sebiestar wrote:Kirk Ernaga wrote:Lore wise I don't even feel that incursion make sense anymore, with sansha getting his ass handed to him so many times. I mean come on, I don't even thin PL could handle losing that many MOMs Agreed but at same time i am against removal of team pve from high sec at least....it's just too much good,relaxing, compared to solo farming l4.burners even if later nets you more isk. Yes I can agree with that. Alot of people would also just rage quit if you removed incursions. I have a better idea lets just start taxing the 1% of players that do run incursions! concord is expensive, redistribute the wealth, PLEX is too damn high ect!
You know its funny when people say incursions dont make as much as nullsec yet 1% do incursions and make half of the isk the whole of null makes, yeah incursions aint lucrative, i prefer the increasing taxes on npc corps as a whole, the longer you are in an npc corp the higher tax you have to pay, makes longterm npc members a non option and adds risk to incursion runners
Drinking rum before 10am makes you a pirate, not an alcoholic | Angel Cartel | Serpentis |
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Shailagh
Shield of Mjolnir
107
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Posted - 2015.11.18 18:46:04 -
[49] - Quote
ISD Decoy wrote:.... locked. Quote:5. Trolling is prohibited.
Trolling is a defined as a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting other players in an attempt to incite retaliation or an emotional response. Posts of this nature are disruptive, often abusive, and do not contribute to the sense of community that CCP promote. ...unlocked |
Globby
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
288
|
Posted - 2015.11.18 18:48:41 -
[50] - Quote
ISD Decoy wrote:.... locked. Quote:5. Trolling is prohibited.
Trolling is a defined as a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting other players in an attempt to incite retaliation or an emotional response. Posts of this nature are disruptive, often abusive, and do not contribute to the sense of community that CCP promote.
it's not trolling though
inb4 lock for forum moderation |
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Jenn aSide
Ascendent. Test Alliance Please Ignore
12958
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Posted - 2015.11.18 18:54:46 -
[51] - Quote
ghost thread
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Globby
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
288
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Posted - 2015.11.18 18:57:21 -
[52] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:ghost thread
spooky |
Cidanel Afuran
Static-Noise Upholders
421
|
Posted - 2015.11.18 18:59:02 -
[53] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:
WTF?
So if you don't have much experience with the issue being talked about Cidaniel, why are you talking about it? I've be a PVE jock for 8 years, i've literally done everything EVE has to offer (even all the COSMOS missions and complexes). I had a feeling you didn't know much, which is why I asked you about your experience in a previous post.
This is a common occurrence, people who know very little about global PVE disagreeing (from a place of ignorance) about something they could see and test for themselves if they were interested in the truth. How about you go look at the Burner Blitz guide, do some of that for a few months, then get back to us on how things work maybe?
Literally the only thing I said about missions so far was that a guy who claims 235m isk/hr across three accounts should say he is making 78m isk/hr because of simple math.
I have run incursions and done everything PvE-wise null has to offer.
My point with missions is if you tell someone you can make 200m isk/hr in missions, it is dishonest because it relies on multiple accounts. It's the same thing as claiming you are solo PvP-ing even though you have an OGB alt. Nothing wrong with it, but be honest that it isn't flying solo. |
Globby
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
288
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Posted - 2015.11.18 19:11:04 -
[54] - Quote
who cares about missions when you can literally pick up and play and make 200 mil an hour doing incursions with minimal investment and nearly 100% safety? |
Jenn aSide
Ascendent. Test Alliance Please Ignore
12959
|
Posted - 2015.11.18 19:11:54 -
[55] - Quote
Cidanel Afuran wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:
WTF?
So if you don't have much experience with the issue being talked about Cidaniel, why are you talking about it? I've be a PVE jock for 8 years, i've literally done everything EVE has to offer (even all the COSMOS missions and complexes). I had a feeling you didn't know much, which is why I asked you about your experience in a previous post.
This is a common occurrence, people who know very little about global PVE disagreeing (from a place of ignorance) about something they could see and test for themselves if they were interested in the truth. How about you go look at the Burner Blitz guide, do some of that for a few months, then get back to us on how things work maybe?
Literally the only thing I said about missions so far was that a guy who claims 235m isk/hr across three accounts should say he is making 78m isk/hr because of simple math. I have run incursions and done everything PvE-wise null has to offer. My point with missions is if you tell someone you can make 200m isk/hr in missions, it is dishonest because it relies on multiple accounts. It's the same thing as claiming you are solo PvP-ing even though you have an OGB alt. Nothing wrong with it, but be honest that it isn't flying solo.
So you latch on to the one guy with 3 accounts but ignore the multiple times I posted the current burner blitz guide for 1 character?
Again you prove my point.
Also, again, he is not making 78 mil per hour, he is making what he says he's making, he owns all the characters running the content. Same as the guy with the OGB, if it's his alt, he's flying solo. He has one butt to sit in a chair in front of a computer, using alts dosesn't cause butt multiplication. |
Paranoid Loyd
7483
|
Posted - 2015.11.18 19:15:39 -
[56] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:using alts dosesn't cause butt multiplication. Maybe not, but it certainly has the potential to cause addition to the butt you do have.
"Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata
Fix the Prospect!
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Jenn aSide
Ascendent. Test Alliance Please Ignore
12960
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Posted - 2015.11.18 19:16:57 -
[57] - Quote
Paranoid Loyd wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:using alts dosesn't cause butt multiplication. Maybe not, but it certainly has the potential to cause addition to the butt you do have.
That's butt addition, an entire different field of posterior mathematics. |
Globby
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
288
|
Posted - 2015.11.18 19:22:34 -
[58] - Quote
nullsec :
- no concord - harder logistics - 80 mil an hour per character (with a carrier ratting, no tax, never losing a ship, good loot, available sites, etc.) - upkeep and infrastructure costs
highsec - concord - travel 10 jumps to the next incursion - 200 mil an hour per character - walk in, get money, walk out |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
9590
|
Posted - 2015.11.18 19:43:07 -
[59] - Quote
If null players would actually shoot other players for the loot, they'd be doing just fine.
Nullsec = good. Bluesec = bad.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
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Cidanel Afuran
Static-Noise Upholders
421
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Posted - 2015.11.18 21:02:23 -
[60] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:So you latch on to the one guy with 3 accounts but ignore the multiple times I posted the current burner blitz guide for 1 character?
Again you prove my point.
Also, again, he is not making 78 mil per hour, he is making what he says he's making, he owns all the characters running the content. Same as the guy with the OGB, if it's his alt, he's flying solo. He has one butt to sit in a chair in front of a computer, using alts dosesn't cause butt multiplication.
I was responding to one specific link you posted and made it clear that I was. Read closer next time.
I don't consider running multiple accounts at the same time flying solo, and I say this as someone with three accounts running simultaneously. |
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