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Markus Reese
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
744
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Posted - 2015.11.12 00:30:06 -
[31] - Quote
Cidanel Afuran wrote:Because, similar to CODE, everyone loves Goons. Even if they love to hate them (which most grr goons people won't admit is how they actually feel). Having someone to complain about/grrr against creates an enormous amount of content.
The CODE. example is a great one actually. I hate CODE, but because of that, I like them. The concept they bring is a neat aspect of eve. The issues around them has more to do with how eve is introduced to the new player prior to undocking. There are other issues as well (Was it code that was the "bonus room?") , but I do not see CODE in a more general fashion doing wrong from a gamer's point of view. They style of play should be enhanced, but more inclusive to the communities they affect.
But I can do so because despite everything, they have, for the most part been pretty... respectable? Yeah, a fair numbers of bad apples, but they still are essentially a game community and treating players as other gamers. Piracy in space games is one of those expected things. It is just unfortunate is imbalanced in eve.
Goons though tended to, at least in the past, be disrespectful on a personal level. It seems more toned down in recent years though. But there are some that do just dislike goons because they made things to a personal level in the past.
To quote Lfod Shi
The ratting itself is PvE. Getting away with it is PvP.
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Raffael Ramirez
Alcohol Fuelled
66
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Posted - 2015.11.12 00:55:17 -
[32] - Quote
Markus Reese wrote:Cidanel Afuran wrote:Because, similar to CODE, everyone loves Goons. Even if they love to hate them (which most grr goons people won't admit is how they actually feel). Having someone to complain about/grrr against creates an enormous amount of content. The CODE. example is a great one actually. I hate CODE, but because of that, I like them. The concept they bring is a neat aspect of eve. The issues around them has more to do with how eve is introduced to the new player prior to undocking. There are other issues as well (Was it code that was the "bonus room?") , but I do not see CODE in a more general fashion doing wrong from a gamer's point of view. They style of play should be enhanced, but more inclusive to the communities they affect. But I can do so because despite everything, they have, for the most part been pretty... respectable? Yeah, a fair numbers of bad apples, but they still are essentially a game community and treating players as other gamers. Piracy in space games is one of those expected things. It is just unfortunate is imbalanced in eve. Goons though tended to, at least in the past, be disrespectful on a personal level. It seems more toned down in recent years though. But there are some that do just dislike goons because they made things to a personal level in the past.
The PR is part of why ppl join them, before them it was BOB ,ppl want to feel like they are part of the badass crew even though they only bring the milk for their coffee.
I personally dislike goons, I don't hate them since I think they are a symptom of what has gone wrong with EVE the last few years. EVE scales up without any kind of loss of impact, so if you can do something with 10 pilots you can do it 10 times faster with 100. It has been an age old problem that the bigger fleets always won. Goons just took it to another level - it has been unavoidable with the game mechanics we have and CCP should have done something years ago.
I think even though they claim "we only have fun" they really take this spaceship game far too seriously, all this meta gaming and the sheer amount of effort that goes into the upkeep of all the infrastructure is mind staggering.
The philosophy is also radically different to my play style - in goons you are one of ten thousand others and your contribution is completely insignificant unless you are a key member then its probably more a job than a game So if you like, you could say Goons are EVE in easy mode - you get everything for free, get told what to do, where to be, what ship to fly (its even on contract for you to claim already fitted) - no individuality, no real impact, no real consequence, no point (for me).
Goons provide "content" in form of direction, materials, security, infrastructure and identity with a group for players that would not normally stay in a sandbox game for long periods of time and for that they are great. But I would rather fight against them than join them .
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Aquilan Aideron
Wardecs go here
22
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Posted - 2015.11.12 01:43:55 -
[33] - Quote
Cidanel Afuran wrote:Because, similar to CODE, everyone loves Goons. Even if they love to hate them (which most grr goons people won't admit is how they actually feel). Having someone to complain about/grrr against creates an enormous amount of content. No. Just... no. |
d0cTeR9
Astro Technologies SpaceMonkey's Alliance
277
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Posted - 2015.11.12 05:47:02 -
[34] - Quote
BirdStrike wrote:d0cTeR9 wrote:Netan MalDoran wrote:So, I was watching this interesting SOV video-> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vi9_ArJ2mEY and noticed that the only main alliance which survived the time period was the Goonswarm Federation, I'm just curious, as I have lived near goons before, what makes their alliance structure so much different than the other power blocks? Because instead of complaining on the forums, we are in-game playing (and winning). Winning *cough* you just got spanked two nights in a row at pillow fort.
Lol? Just saw how bad you guys lose nearly every engagements on zkillboard... Heck today we wiped both your fleets...
Been around since the beginning.
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Revar
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2015.11.12 05:51:20 -
[35] - Quote
d0cTeR9 wrote:Winning *cough* you just got spanked two nights in a row at pillow fort.
The online d*ck measuring going on between you two is absolutely adorable! You're both trying so hard to out-meta the other guy! Cute. |
Markus Reese
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
746
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Posted - 2015.11.12 06:22:21 -
[36] - Quote
Revar wrote:
Are you two done with trying to win a d*ck measuring contest? Jesus....the pettiness/stupidity on these forums. Are we adults or 13 year olds?
I am thinking my personal mantra that every year I am not older, just more immature. I dont get it when taken seriously, but what they say is good ol smacktalk, fun if in good sport. Even I like mutual smacktalk on occasion
To quote Lfod Shi
The ratting itself is PvE. Getting away with it is PvP.
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tiberiusric
Comply Or Die
202
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Posted - 2015.11.12 06:32:14 -
[37] - Quote
Because whilst some alliances cared more about trying to be elite and just hire high sp players, goons simply decided more numbers is better thus allowing noobs to join making them become huge. Now they practically drive eve like that or not its a fact. Not a good one though i might add. And of course they lead a huge and solid coalition which protects them and sadly i feel the days of mass wars have gone. |
Mephiztopheleze
Republic University Minmatar Republic
309
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Posted - 2015.11.12 06:41:33 -
[38] - Quote
I think the main reasons goons are still a powerhouse is pretty simple.
The entire CFC/Imperium is, in my experience, based around one simple premise:
Never Not Bring A Rifter.
If the best ship you can fly is a T1 EWAR or Tackle frigate, there's a place for you in every Imperium fleet doctrine with the sole exceptions of BLOPS and Capital fleets.
Goons have done a lot of theorycrafting (and field experiments) about how to best weaponise and utilise newbie players with limited skillpoints and they've done this very, very well. The Celestis doctrine known as FuckYouFleet is another example. A newbie with a couple of days training can take their place in a FYF. I'll leave it for those who've been on the receiving end of a hundred newbies crazed up on the power of Sensor Dampeners to elaborate on just what an effective support fleet the FYF truly is.
Throw in the very comprehensive Ship Replacement Policy along with the numerous ISK making opportunities in 0.0 space and it's a tempting organisation to join.
The other main strength is the nature of the SIG (Special Interest Group) system. Pretty much every Imperium member is also a member of one or more SIGs. ******* Squad for the AUTZ is but one example. The benefit here is that members get to know those in other corporations and alliances in the coalition. So, if a corp or even an entire CFC alliance failcascades, the SIGs serve to find new homes for people and keep them within the coalition as a whole.
It's been mentioned, but I'd love to have an IT wing at my small business with the talent and dedication of the Goons' IT'bros.
Occasional Resident Newbie Correspondent for TMC: http://themittani.com/search/site/mephiztopheleze
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Netan MalDoran
Last Garrison
130
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Posted - 2015.11.12 07:18:27 -
[39] - Quote
Intar Medris wrote:Simple really those other power blocs existed for the sole reason of getting and holding sovereignty. Once they lost it the alliance no longer had any purpose. Goonswarm is basically a a giant party with 15,000 of your best friends. Even if they lost it all the tomorrow they would come back. They aren't invincible, but they exist to have fun. The others existed to hold power.
It sounds like we need more alliances out there then like them to all have fun conflicts throughout null
"Your security status has been lowered." - Hell yeah it was!
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
3622
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Posted - 2015.11.12 08:16:52 -
[40] - Quote
Raffael Ramirez wrote:I haven't been in many alliances in the last decade that were situated in 0.0 so probably not the best to answer that, but what I hear it is the amount of effort and work that goes into this alliance that basically out competes everyone else. Unless eve is your full time job/hobby/life it is hard to even come close to what is provided in the Goon infrastructure.
I really like to play spaceships but what these guys are doing is far beyond anything I would even consider to invest into a game.
Having been on both sides (the grrr Goons, and then allied with goons), this is pretty much it. Add on that goons bring in new people and support these new players very well and you have a successful group of players who can come back from serious losses whereas other groups can't.
Look at the BoB corps, they are mere shadows of their former selves (or are even dead). They just did not have the cohesion and culture that goons do. To be quite honest a number of old BoB corps hated each other near the end of IT Alliance.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
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Lavitias Arjar
Zebra Corp Goonswarm Federation
9
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Posted - 2015.11.12 08:18:22 -
[41] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:We are a CIA front.
Pretty much this.
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ReptilesBlade
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
74
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Posted - 2015.11.12 08:56:40 -
[42] - Quote
The short answer is because we're winning!
The longer answer is multifaceted. I have only been with the goons for 6-8 months or so since I first returned to Eve after a three year break and I hold absolutely no positions of authority. I am just the lowest rank of the rank and file. But I will try to answer your question.
1. Communication. We have much more efficient channels to transmit intel than most other alliances. Any orders, info, whatever is dispersed within seconds. I was out on a fleet recently and we had intel on our enemies, where they were, and what they were flying to counter us at all times. This has been endemic to flying with the Goons in my brief experience.
2. The Meta Game. We are masters of it as my example in # 1 shows. Hell you could argue we effing invented the Meta Game.
3. Sheer Size. We are massive and we control not systems but entire regions. And we do it with an iron fist. If a neut flies anywhere into our space we know and there is always a group of pvp fitted players waiting to welcome them. I have personally been a part of and witnessed operations where my fellow Goons and I have dispatched an opposing force equal or even greater in numbers than us with a ruthless efficiency that is frightening. I am talking about enemy fleets composed of entire small corporations dispatched in 60-120 seconds.
4 We Are Rich. Hell, we define the word rich. We control all of the best and most profitable space in the game. And we USE it! I used to live in highsec and was a mission runner years ago when that was one of the most lucrative things in the game. I was a master at it. But the isk I can and do make being a Goon makes that look like poverty. I make no less than 1 billion a week on a bad week only using this one character/ship. If I want to get really serious I can easily double that. I have personally witnessed people making 5-10 billion isk a day using multiple alts multiple times.
Even the lowest newbie flying with us can afford anything his little heart desires after 30-60 days. We give away 100s of millions of isk like it is candy. I just dropped 2 billion tonight on a fleet of new pvp ships for our ongoing war and I didn't even feel it.
5. Very Newbie Friendly. We are very open to new players. We will take almost anyone, teach and train them, and support them in any way that they need. Very few other corps/alliances in Eve do that and none of them do it with our scope and efficiency.
6. We Are Winning. As I mentioned at the start we are hands down winning Eve in any measurable metric. Everyone loves a winner and everyone wants to be a winner or on the winning team. And that's us.
So if you are new to null or even Eve in general and want a place that offers guidance and growth then find a diplomat and hit them up to come fly with us. You could give them my name but you won't get anything with it. I am just an unnamed soldier in the rank and file. An incredibly rich and happy one. |
Chopper Rollins
Lantean Empire
1131
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Posted - 2015.11.12 09:16:52 -
[43] - Quote
ReptilesBlade wrote: An incredibly rich and happy one.
grrr gons hat gons hat yr freedoms
Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
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Tiddle Jr
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
646
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Posted - 2015.11.12 13:00:00 -
[44] - Quote
[quote=Netan MalDoran]So, I was watching this interesting SOV video-> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vi9_ArJ2mEY and noticed that the only main alliance which survived the time period was the Goonswarm Federation, I'm just curious, as I have lived near goons before, what makes their alliance structure so much different than the other power blocks? [/quote
https://youtu.be/fVX6xaMr-YU |
Jarod Garamonde
Jolly Codgers Get Off My Lawn
2650
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Posted - 2015.11.12 15:53:33 -
[45] - Quote
Simply put..... CFC/Imperium leadership inspires loyalty. The community is strong. They seem like jerks to everyone on the outside, but once you're in, you're in. I always admired the way Goonswarm does business, even before I joined LAWN, but there were times when I was right there with the "Grrrr Goons" crowd. Now that I've seen first-hand how they treat allies... better yet, how "True Goons" behave around eachother, in person... I get where that loyalty comes from. I so totally get it. That's why they're so successful. You can't compete with a cohesive group, when you're still struggling with shifting loyalties, and half your members are constantly looking for "greener pastures".
That moment when you realize the crazy lady with all the cats was right...
[#savethelance]
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Lavitias Arjar
Zebra Corp Goonswarm Federation
11
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Posted - 2015.11.12 19:52:29 -
[46] - Quote
ReptilesBlade wrote:The short answer is because we're winning! The longer answer is multifaceted. I have only been with the goons for 6-8 months or so since I first returned to Eve after a three year break and I hold absolutely no positions of authority. I am just the lowest rank of the rank and file. But I will try to answer your question. 1. Communication. We have much more efficient channels to transmit intel than most other alliances. Any orders, info, whatever is dispersed within seconds. I was out on a fleet recently and we had intel on our enemies, where they were, and what they were flying to counter us at all times. This has been endemic to flying with the Goons in my brief experience. 2. The Meta Game. We are masters of it as my example in # 1 shows. Hell you could argue we effing invented the Meta Game. 3. Sheer Size. We are massive and we control not systems but entire regions. And we do it with an iron fist. If a neut flies anywhere into our space we know and there is always a group of pvp fitted players waiting to welcome them. I have personally been a part of and witnessed operations where my fellow Goons and I have dispatched an opposing force equal or even greater in numbers than us with a ruthless efficiency that is frightening. I am talking about enemy fleets composed of entire small corporations dispatched in 60-120 seconds. 4 We Are Rich. Hell, we define the word rich. We control all of the best and most profitable space in the game. And we USE it! I used to live in highsec and was a mission runner years ago when that was one of the most lucrative things in the game. I was a master at it. But the isk I can and do make being a Goon makes that look like poverty. I make no less than 1 billion a week on a bad week only using this one character/ship. If I want to get really serious I can easily double that. I have personally witnessed people making 5-10 billion isk a day using multiple alts multiple times. Even the lowest newbie flying with us can afford anything his little heart desires after 30-60 days. We give away 100s of millions of isk like it is candy. I just dropped 2 billion tonight on a fleet of new pvp ships for our ongoing war and I didn't even feel it. 5. Very Newbie Friendly. We are very open to new players. We will take almost anyone, teach and train them, and support them in any way that they need. Very few other corps/alliances in Eve do that and none of them do it with our scope and efficiency. 6. We Are Winning. As I mentioned at the start we are hands down winning Eve in any measurable metric. Everyone loves a winner and everyone wants to be a winner or on the winning team. And that's us. So if you are new to null or even Eve in general and want a place that offers guidance and growth then find a diplomat and hit them up to come fly with us. You could give them my name but you won't get anything with it. I am just an unnamed soldier in the rank and file. An incredibly rich and happy one.
Like Baltec said were a CIA front |
Markus Reese
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
747
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Posted - 2015.11.12 20:13:18 -
[47] - Quote
CIA front? I insert a joke about being like arse end of CIA
To quote Lfod Shi
The ratting itself is PvE. Getting away with it is PvP.
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Jathlor
Raytheon Academy Darkeshi
9
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Posted - 2015.11.12 20:24:20 -
[48] - Quote
CFCP |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
25684
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Posted - 2015.11.12 21:31:57 -
[49] - Quote
Lavitias Arjar wrote:Like Baltec said we're a CIA front The CIA, sponsors of wars everywhere.
Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business.
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
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Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
1133
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Posted - 2015.11.12 21:50:22 -
[50] - Quote
The goon strategy is simple, send in a thousand skinny dudes, park them where you want them, then feed them waffles until you need a crane to remove them... makes it not worth the trouble.
It's basically internet spaceship sumo wrestling.
Star Jump Drive A new way to traverse the galaxy.
I invented Tiericide
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Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation The Honda Accord
2522
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Posted - 2015.11.12 21:52:03 -
[51] - Quote
They provide the best new player experience in Eve and actively recruit. My advice to anyone new to Eve, the Goons are the place to be. You'll have a good time. |
Marsha Mallow
2732
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Posted - 2015.11.12 22:12:18 -
[52] - Quote
Issler Dainze wrote:They provide the best new player experience in Eve and actively recruit. My advice to anyone new to Eve, the Goons are the place to be. You'll have a good time. Ye, no. Sorry but I've seen GSF in action, and unless you're willing to sell your soul to the troll gods, a lot of us have been on the end of some fairly sustained verbal abuse from the evil tubbies.
You can try rewrite things all you like. They are nice to their own players. But that means subscribing to a group of players who espouse being racist, sexist, homophobe - and frankly, nasty towards anyone else as a form of sport. The internet might make some of us stupid, but goading people over a sustained period the way some of the more toxic eve groups have is really off. You reap what you sow.
And for what it's worth, I'd recommend Brave, Signal Cartel, Pandemic Horde [in that order] to new people I know - mainly because of the toxic culture GSF has, and has never managed to fully shake.
Knowing they have more SP than I do isnGÇÖt going to stop me from taking the fight if I was going to take it.
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
16911
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Posted - 2015.11.13 01:40:22 -
[53] - Quote
Markus Reese wrote:CIA front? I insert a joke about being like arse end of CIA
No need, the joke is Glenn Beck believes it.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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Ashterothi
Virtus Crusade Curatores Veritatis Alliance
324
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Posted - 2015.11.13 01:45:38 -
[54] - Quote
It is simple, while everyone else was treating this like a game, they have been treating it like an EMPIRE.
I am not saying I agree with the Goons philosophy, but they have worked hard to ensure they have the infrastructure enough to get basically any job done.
They are masters of propaganda and miss-direction, and over time have only further cemented their position as leaders in the null sec space. They controlled the message, and thus control their massive numbers. In the end it became a simple prospect: ally with Goons, or die. Even if this isn't always true, they have proven it enough that people have largely stopped trying.
Also, in the early days the Goons correctly identified the Russians as some of the most tenacious fighters in this game, and their almost decade long alliance with them have served both very well.
Listen to Hydrostatic Podcast for all your Empyrean needs!
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Fleischgewehr
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
38
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Posted - 2015.11.13 11:28:20 -
[55] - Quote
It is interesting to see all the comments form "outsiders" and "insiders". The "Grrr goon" is pretty strong on the first group and the trolling is pretty strong on the second one ;)
When we (as a corp) joined "goons" it was quite a culture shock, when we came into contact with their corporation like management structure. From the outside goons seam to be a big mass of trolling and badness, but that management style is the solid skeleton, that keeps that mass in form and controls its direction. |
Syeed Ameer Ali
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
95
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Posted - 2015.11.13 17:41:20 -
[56] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:We are a CIA front.
Ah, so to defeat Goons one must defeat the United States of America then? Interesting...
everevolutionaryfront.blogspot.com
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Commander Spurty
Moosearmy I N G L O R I O U S
1594
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Posted - 2015.11.13 21:13:26 -
[57] - Quote
A thing even close to to being a threat got the blue treatment.
Not goons fault CCP made politics 100% free
There are good ships
And wood ships
And ships that sail the sea
But the best ships are
Spaceships
Built by CCP
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RoAnnon
Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation
38884
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Posted - 2015.11.13 21:28:53 -
[58] - Quote
Why ask "why"? Goons are here, deal with it however you feel you must.
So, you're a bounty hunter. No, that ain't it at all. Then what are you? I'm a bounty hunter.
Broadcast4Reps
Eve Vegas 2015 Pub Crawl Group 9
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Lavitias Arjar
Zebra Corp Goonswarm Federation
11
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Posted - 2015.12.14 06:10:03 -
[59] - Quote
Marsha Mallow wrote:Issler Dainze wrote:They provide the best new player experience in Eve and actively recruit. My advice to anyone new to Eve, the Goons are the place to be. You'll have a good time. Ye, no. Sorry but I've seen GSF in action, and unless you're willing to sell your soul to the troll gods, a lot of us have been on the end of some fairly sustained verbal abuse from the evil tubbies. You can try rewrite things all you like. They are nice to their own players. But that means subscribing to a group of players who espouse being racist, sexist, homophobe - and frankly, nasty towards anyone else as a form of sport. The internet might make some of us stupid, but goading people over a sustained period the way some of the more toxic eve groups have is really off. You reap what you sow. And for what it's worth, I'd recommend Brave, Signal Cartel, Pandemic Horde [in that order] to new people I know - mainly because of the toxic culture GSF has, and has never managed to fully shake.
It's really not that bad you gotta learn to give and take. And for the most part it's all in good fun. Whatever the case you could probably learn from listening to this song.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5xvkAPXB9c |
Linna Excel
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
230
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Posted - 2015.12.14 06:48:43 -
[60] - Quote
Netan MalDoran wrote:So, I was watching this interesting SOV video-> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vi9_ArJ2mEY and noticed that the only main alliance which survived the time period was the Goonswarm Federation, I'm just curious, as I have lived near goons before, what makes their alliance structure so much different than the other power blocks?
Technically, they almost died before the job of leading them was dropped on the mittani's lap. I'm guessing it's a number of factors currently working in their favor and not any one thing. reptileblade's list is a good enough starting point.
As for the CIA thing... as someone who listens to Beck, that's one thing that really made me face palm. I think if he knew gamers, he'd probably understand where he made the mistake he made. CIA's totally 4chan and not SA. :p (J/K of course) I don't blame him for digging into why those 4 people got killed and if it was preventable, I think he just stumbled into something that wasn't his area of expertise.
I can has blogging skills!
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