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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
1233
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Posted - 2015.10.24 12:04:39 -
[421] - Quote
Iyacia Cyric'ai wrote:So... basically the Punisher is an autocannon ship now...
it does feel like where going backwards somewhat, with new T3's being massively OP and more e-war ships no one wants and amarr laser boats getting cap bonuses back again which people hate and will bypass with blasters as they are so much better
T3's need to be versatile not have T2 resists, OP dps and tank obsoleting T2 ships entirely.
ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 highslots for droneboats
Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
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Templar Dane
Amarrian Vengeance Team Amarrica
305
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Posted - 2015.10.24 12:10:32 -
[422] - Quote
Stitch Kaneland wrote:Plz. For such an expert amarr pilot you should know that oversized props need an agility mod somewhere. With nano, its 14.2s, so the fitting app on my phone was dated which was showing 13s. Still far less than BS agility and the over exaggerated 25s you're claiming. And no, i don't use implants/links/alts when i solo PvP. http://imgur.com/PFgccua
I did specifically say that was it's align time with only the AB fit. That's still battleship agility. The align time number you're looking at in your EFT is the time to get to 75% max velocity so it takes longer than the displayed number to get to that full potential speed.
Stitch Kaneland wrote:
To answer something you mentioned about autocannons and rifters having better projection. Here is the 10mn punisher and a 200mm dual ambit rig rifter. Punisher beat its out at edge of scram range, which is all that matters really. Punisher has better tank, better dps, better range and still has range control if webbed. As its only 200m/s slower than non webbed rifter. Using OH will allow you to pull range and get hits in.
Yes if the rifter pilot also uses OH he can keep up, but this requires knowledge/skill/proper overview to pull off. So its not quite so one sided as a 1mn punisher vs a 1mn rifter.
I said a punisher fit with bigger autocannons, not beams like in your pic.
Stitch Kaneland wrote: tormentor has considerably less PG. So buffer is one issue. But it can't use 10mn fits, which is debatable if thats a good or bad thing.
If you're wasting all that extra grid and more on an oversized afterburner I really don't see the point.
Stitch Kaneland wrote: However, you claiming oversized AB are a joke are sadly mistaken. When used properly with decent fits they work very well in a solo environment. Theres more to oversized fits than agility, and its the ability to get out of scram range and kill tackle easily. I've even used 100mn battlecruisers, which have killed linked worms, succubus, svipuls etc. I've used 10mn retributions to scram kite kestrels and other frigs with webs. I've even used 10mn punishers. There are downfalls to using it yes, but if you know what you're doing it can be managed.
They see a lot of use on ships that have AB bonuses (tech 3 cruisers, sansha ships) and on the T3Ds which have big velocity/inertia bonuses. They work on those ships because of the bonuses and because of mass/inertia relationship.
The bigger the ship, the bigger the mass. Most people understand that. A lot of people don't notice that propulsion mods add mass, and an oversized propulsion mod adds tons of mass that the ship wasn't designed for. It turns most ships into bricks.
A punisher is not a confessor. It doesn't have the ability to switch to propulsion mode and go super fast with a big bonus to agility enabling it to turn faster than it should. It's also not a strategic cruiser with a subsystem buffing afterburners.
Stitch Kaneland wrote: Then why don't you start saying that instead of persisting on the 2 mid syndrome. All i've seen is complaining about having 2 mids, and how it doesn't have range or range control.
[/quote]
Then you've not been reading the thread. I have been debunking the people coming into this thread saying the punisher in it's current iteration is 'fine' or that the proposed changes to the punisher make it 'good'.
It's a bad ship and these current changes won't change that. The tormentor is a good ship now and is the better option in everything but pure buffer.
Just like how when the abaddon was introduced. We had three laser battleships. The geddon was cursed by low fittings and less mids, and the apoc had no purpose in the game because it had a laser cap usage and a cap recharge bonus. So the apoc wasn't an option and we had a new gun boat that was super easy to fit and had an extra mid over the geddon...with the geddon being a little more ganky thanks to it's drones.
Now we have three battleships with different roles. While I would have argued the abaddon would have made the better drone boat and the geddon could have stayed the ganky option, I see the changes as positive.
The punisher on the other hand is in a whole other place. It's less ganky and midslot starved in a class of ships where midslots are king.
'oh but templar, it's tanky'
And being midslot starved automatically relegates it to gang work since it has no projection bonus. In a gang your tank doesn't matter until you're being shot at, and if a tanky ship is being shot at........your ewar is dead, your logi is dead, your dps is dead......and you're the last guy on the field.
What's the tank going to matter at that point? The fight is lost. You're just going to die 20% slower.
If on the other hand, you brought more gank/utility to the fight rather than a punisher maybe you'd have been able to dps down their logi and/or disrupt their ewar.
I know these ships, I've been an amarr ship specialist the entire time I've been playing this game. This is my youngest main character and I picked amarr because they were the underdog. Oh sure I've gotten drunk and confused accounts and used non-amarr ships...and fairly recently lifted my own prohibition on the half-amarr pirate ships and such. I know them like the back of my hand. Every time I see someone in a punisher and not a tormentor it peeves me off a bit because I know that ****** is only in it so he will be the last one to go down and can get on every killmail, rather than be in a good ship and contributing more.
Hell, I use the punisher even now. The only reason I use it is because it's crap and everyone knows it, so it's easier to get a fight in one.
But being crap so you can get fights is a pretty bad role for a ship to have. Please, CCP, make it good at something. None of this jack of no trades, master of none.
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Fourteen Maken
Omega Industry Inc. The Ditanian Alliance
229
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Posted - 2015.10.24 14:36:58 -
[423] - Quote
Templar Dane wrote:
And being midslot starved automatically relegates it to gang work since it has no projection bonus. In a gang your tank doesn't matter until you're being shot at, and if a tanky ship is being shot at........your ewar is dead, your logi is dead, your dps is dead......and you're the last guy on the field.
What's the tank going to matter at that point? The fight is lost. You're just going to die 20% slower.
If a tackler is the last ship on the field he's done his job well
Support a fairer loyalty point market for faction war:
The sinews of war; infinite money.
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Templar Dane
Amarrian Vengeance Team Amarrica
305
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Posted - 2015.10.24 17:45:40 -
[424] - Quote
Fourteen Maken wrote:Templar Dane wrote:
And being midslot starved automatically relegates it to gang work since it has no projection bonus. In a gang your tank doesn't matter until you're being shot at, and if a tanky ship is being shot at........your ewar is dead, your logi is dead, your dps is dead......and you're the last guy on the field.
What's the tank going to matter at that point? The fight is lost. You're just going to die 20% slower.
If a tackler is the last ship on the field he's done his job well
If you brought a punisher for tackle you did something wrong. |
W0lf Crendraven
Welfcorp
388
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Posted - 2015.10.24 20:44:09 -
[425] - Quote
Templar Dane wrote:
But being crap so you can get fights is a pretty bad role for a ship to have. Please, CCP, make it good at something. None of this jack of no trades, master of none.
The thing is the tor is a jack of all trades, master of none which is why it is good. The punisher is specialized, its is focused mainly on one thing.
While **** atm, the new punisher will have its uses, in a beam fit with a armor buffer it will do good dps with good range with a good tank and will probably be the best t1 frigate for armor fleets with logis. Its a low skill thing for fcs in fw to put noobs in so they dont die instantly, as long as it will do decent dps with decent ehp for low sp it wont be useless. It wont be a good solo ship (depends on how good its at kiting), but it will be alright i guess. |
Catherine Laartii
Perkone Caldari State
606
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Posted - 2015.10.24 21:18:58 -
[426] - Quote
Templar Dane wrote:Fourteen Maken wrote:Templar Dane wrote:
And being midslot starved automatically relegates it to gang work since it has no projection bonus. In a gang your tank doesn't matter until you're being shot at, and if a tanky ship is being shot at........your ewar is dead, your logi is dead, your dps is dead......and you're the last guy on the field.
What's the tank going to matter at that point? The fight is lost. You're just going to die 20% slower.
If a tackler is the last ship on the field he's done his job well If you brought a punisher for tackle you did something wrong. The punisher is good at heavy tackle; it's one of the few t1 frigates that can effectively lock onto a destroyer or frigate and hold it on field long enough for secondary tackle or for dps to take it down, although admittedly this role goes down the toilet somewhat with the removal of a utility high.
I'd like to say that i'd prefer that the Punisher gets backup drones as long as the Tormentor gets a range bonus. I agree with you in the fact that the current proposal is kind of crap and they can definitely find a better role for it, although i'm not of the opinion that it needs a 3rd mid to accomplish that. |
Flyinghotpocket
Amarrian Vengeance Team Amarrica
506
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Posted - 2015.10.25 01:12:27 -
[427] - Quote
Catherine Laartii wrote:Templar Dane wrote:Fourteen Maken wrote:Templar Dane wrote:
And being midslot starved automatically relegates it to gang work since it has no projection bonus. In a gang your tank doesn't matter until you're being shot at, and if a tanky ship is being shot at........your ewar is dead, your logi is dead, your dps is dead......and you're the last guy on the field.
What's the tank going to matter at that point? The fight is lost. You're just going to die 20% slower.
If a tackler is the last ship on the field he's done his job well If you brought a punisher for tackle you did something wrong. The punisher is good at heavy tackle; it's one of the few t1 frigates that can effectively lock onto a destroyer or frigate and hold it on field long enough for secondary tackle or for dps to take it down, although admittedly this role goes down the toilet somewhat with the removal of a utility high. I'd like to say that i'd prefer that the Punisher gets backup drones as long as the Tormentor gets a range bonus. I agree with you in the fact that the current proposal is kind of crap and they can definitely find a better role for it, although i'm not of the opinion that it needs a 3rd mid to accomplish that. If its heavy tackle why can a thorax outrun it while its tackled?
Amarr Militia Representative - A jar of nitro
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ColdBeauty
oooh ponies
15
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Posted - 2015.10.25 01:25:10 -
[428] - Quote
Fourteen Maken wrote:Templar Dane wrote:
And being midslot starved automatically relegates it to gang work since it has no projection bonus. In a gang your tank doesn't matter until you're being shot at, and if a tanky ship is being shot at........your ewar is dead, your logi is dead, your dps is dead......and you're the last guy on the field.
What's the tank going to matter at that point? The fight is lost. You're just going to die 20% slower.
If a tackler is the last ship on the field he's done his job well
Or he got there late, the target left and the gang are peeved at him
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Flyinghotpocket
Amarrian Vengeance Team Amarrica
506
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Posted - 2015.10.25 01:27:02 -
[429] - Quote
http://eve.wikia.com/wiki/Inquisitor
anybody remember this?
we need the missile line REBORN in amarr t1 frigates. 3 laser ships is ********. we need the missile LINE BACK!!!!!!!
Amarr Militia Representative - A jar of nitro
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Templar Dane
Amarrian Vengeance Team Amarrica
305
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Posted - 2015.10.25 01:49:23 -
[430] - Quote
Catherine Laartii wrote: The punisher is good at heavy tackle; it's one of the few t1 frigates that can effectively lock onto a destroyer or frigate and hold it on field long enough for secondary tackle or for dps to take it down, although admittedly this role goes down the toilet somewhat with the removal of a utility high.
I'd like to say that i'd prefer that the Punisher gets backup drones as long as the Tormentor gets a range bonus. I agree with you in the fact that the current proposal is kind of crap and they can definitely find a better role for it, although i'm not of the opinion that it needs a 3rd mid to accomplish that.
Dual ASB breacher, dual rep incursus, brick tanked merlin. They can do bait while not appearing as obvious, and they can solo.
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Fourteen Maken
Omega Industry Inc. The Ditanian Alliance
230
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Posted - 2015.10.25 06:45:47 -
[431] - Quote
ColdBeauty wrote:Fourteen Maken wrote:Templar Dane wrote:
And being midslot starved automatically relegates it to gang work since it has no projection bonus. In a gang your tank doesn't matter until you're being shot at, and if a tanky ship is being shot at........your ewar is dead, your logi is dead, your dps is dead......and you're the last guy on the field.
What's the tank going to matter at that point? The fight is lost. You're just going to die 20% slower.
If a tackler is the last ship on the field he's done his job well Or he got there late, the target left and the gang are peeved at him
I didn't mean roaming gangs who still want their fast tackle, I was thinking more of pitched fights like faction war plex brawls, sometimes you want a few people hero tackling on the beacon if they can't fly the doctrine, and these can be fit so cheap and so tanky even with low skills they should be good in pubby fleets. If you have logi and links they can do stupid things, you can have 23k ehp + 160/184dps + sig radius of 24 + overheated mwd speed of 2572/ 3563m/s for 4.5mil each
[Punisher, Punisher fit]
Micro Auxillary Power Core I 'Refuge' Adaptive Nano Plating I 400mm Rolled Tungsten Compact Plates 400mm Rolled Tungsten Compact Plates Damage Control II
5MN Quad LiF Restrained Microwarpdrive J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I
Light Ion Blaster II, Void S Light Ion Blaster II, Void S Light Ion Blaster II, Void S Light Ion Blaster II, Void S
Small Trimark Armor Pump I Small Trimark Armor Pump I Small Trimark Armor Pump I
You could drop one of the blasters and fit a neut if you like, you can alternate webs and scrams through the gang, you could mix them up with fast tackle like derptrons, or slashers with sensor damps/tracking disruptors and neuts.
For solo I think they need the tracking bonus in place of the cap usage bonus or they'll be better with anything but lasers. no web + no tracking bonus + lasers + slow hull might be unworkable.
Support a fairer loyalty point market for faction war:
The sinews of war; infinite money.
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Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
1293
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Posted - 2015.10.25 10:56:40 -
[432] - Quote
Flyinghotpocket wrote:Not having a missile frigate in the line is what is a confusing set of bread crumbs for new pilots. as they get into ships like the retribution or the crusader and wonder why these ships are total trash.
quiet frankly if your concerned about the t1 line up. how about fixing the amarr being the only race with combat cruisers using the same weapon system? while each other race enjoys missiles/drones/hybrid/projectile mix ups.
Actually good points. There seems to be a lot of space still to introduce new, awesome looking ships to diversify choice and probably introduce counters to established favourites around.
The Punisher with rockets would be pretty darn perfect. Lots of cap, lots of tank, a few changes again to PG/CPU and you had a newbro-brawler with a 400mm plate+AAR and resist bonus, directly translating to the vengeance. Then there'd be a choice for lasers (Executioner), lasers+drones (Torm for the advanced user with more diverse SP), mainly drones on the crucifier whose slot layout actually makes for a good solo ship even and lastly the punisher as a resilent missile boat that anyone can fly successfully by sticking within x km and firing missiles. Every newbro gets that.
Mildly focused on the newbro aspect cause why would you ever fly a punisher if you can fly a tormentor instead. And none of those laserboats are particularily SP friendly with their requirements in the capacitor and gunnery sector.
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Ray P
State Protectorate Caldari State
6
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Posted - 2015.10.25 13:36:25 -
[433] - Quote
Fourteen Maken wrote:
For solo I think they need the tracking bonus in place of the cap usage bonus or they'll be better with anything but lasers. no web + no tracking bonus + lasers + slow hull might be unworkable.
For solo pretty much all t1 frigs are becoming unworkable. bad enough now but after the changes you can add two more ewar cancer ships to the meta of cancer and aids. |
Flyinghotpocket
Amarrian Vengeance Team Amarrica
506
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Posted - 2015.10.25 15:16:07 -
[434] - Quote
Lloyd Roses wrote:Flyinghotpocket wrote:Not having a missile frigate in the line is what is a confusing set of bread crumbs for new pilots. as they get into ships like the retribution or the crusader and wonder why these ships are total trash.
quiet frankly if your concerned about the t1 line up. how about fixing the amarr being the only race with combat cruisers using the same weapon system? while each other race enjoys missiles/drones/hybrid/projectile mix ups. Actually good points. There seems to be a lot of space still to introduce new, awesome looking ships to diversify choice and probably introduce counters to established favourites around. The Punisher with rockets would be pretty darn perfect. Lots of cap, lots of tank, a few changes again to PG/CPU and you had a newbro-brawler with a 400mm plate+AAR and resist bonus, directly translating to the vengeance. Then there'd be a choice for lasers (Executioner), lasers+drones (Torm for the advanced user with more diverse SP), mainly drones on the crucifier whose slot layout actually makes for a good solo ship even and lastly the punisher as a resilent missile boat that anyone can fly successfully by sticking within x km and firing missiles. Every newbro gets that. Mildly focused on the newbro aspect cause why would you ever fly a punisher if you can fly a tormentor instead. And none of those laserboats are particularily SP friendly with their requirements in the capacitor and gunnery sector. i wouldnt suggest the current punisher just get a blatent rocket bonus. more like it be redesigned.
Punisher Amarr Frigate bonuses (per skill level): 5% bonus to rocket rate of fire 4% bonus to all armor resistances
Slot layout: 3(-1) H, 3(+1) M, 4 L, 3(+3) Launcher 3 Rig Slots, 400 Calibration Fittings: 50(-7) PWG, 160(+33) CPU Defense (shields / armour / hull): 350 / 550(+50) / 450 Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 275(-125) / 135s/ 2s Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / warp speed / align time): 355 / 2.9 / 1,290,000 (+100000) / 5 / 4.8s Drones (bandwidth / bay): 0 / 0 Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 25km / 640 / 4 Sensor strength: 10 Radar Signature radius: 38(+1)
The puni should keep is res bonus. to keep its combat ship line of. punisher/maller/prophecy/abaddon
But with this it will get slower, loose alot of its capacitor to become like like the old rocket inquisitor but still retain a fast recharge rate. With the rof bonus it wouldn't be a dps powerhouse however over time the tankier ship and over time dps will make this a much used choice for small scale pvp. it will loose its utility high and gain a 3rd mid to maintain similarity with the maller and abaddon(no utility unless chosen)
And then the maller should be redesigned to use launchers. so that amarr isnt stuck with only laser boats for cruiser combat choices.
Really fozzie, the amarr frigate line up needs missiles brought back. it makes no sense to have 3 laser combat frigate choices. the punisher needs this change. or redesign the tormentor to be the missile ship. but something please.
Amarr Militia Representative - A jar of nitro
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Catherine Laartii
Perkone Caldari State
607
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Posted - 2015.10.25 20:35:58 -
[435] - Quote
Templar Dane wrote:Catherine Laartii wrote: The punisher is good at heavy tackle; it's one of the few t1 frigates that can effectively lock onto a destroyer or frigate and hold it on field long enough for secondary tackle or for dps to take it down, although admittedly this role goes down the toilet somewhat with the removal of a utility high.
I'd like to say that i'd prefer that the Punisher gets backup drones as long as the Tormentor gets a range bonus. I agree with you in the fact that the current proposal is kind of crap and they can definitely find a better role for it, although i'm not of the opinion that it needs a 3rd mid to accomplish that.
Dual ASB breacher, dual rep incursus, brick tanked merlin. They can do bait while not appearing as obvious, and they can solo. I meant to say cruiser tackle. Merlin has issues with sig radius and shields have a lower resist profile overall vs armor, and the breacher is better at skirmishes at frigates. Destroyers and well-placed hits from cruiser weapons can alpha right through its reps fairly easily. The Punisher excels at tackling larger targets due to the utility high, low sig radius and high resists. Having a nosferatu on your punisher is ideal when tackling cruiser or larger ships with neuts on them. |
Catherine Laartii
Perkone Caldari State
607
|
Posted - 2015.10.25 20:41:06 -
[436] - Quote
Flyinghotpocket wrote:Lloyd Roses wrote:Flyinghotpocket wrote:Not having a missile frigate in the line is what is a confusing set of bread crumbs for new pilots. as they get into ships like the retribution or the crusader and wonder why these ships are total trash.
quiet frankly if your concerned about the t1 line up. how about fixing the amarr being the only race with combat cruisers using the same weapon system? while each other race enjoys missiles/drones/hybrid/projectile mix ups. Actually good points. There seems to be a lot of space still to introduce new, awesome looking ships to diversify choice and probably introduce counters to established favourites around. The Punisher with rockets would be pretty darn perfect. Lots of cap, lots of tank, a few changes again to PG/CPU and you had a newbro-brawler with a 400mm plate+AAR and resist bonus, directly translating to the vengeance. Then there'd be a choice for lasers (Executioner), lasers+drones (Torm for the advanced user with more diverse SP), mainly drones on the crucifier whose slot layout actually makes for a good solo ship even and lastly the punisher as a resilent missile boat that anyone can fly successfully by sticking within x km and firing missiles. Every newbro gets that. Mildly focused on the newbro aspect cause why would you ever fly a punisher if you can fly a tormentor instead. And none of those laserboats are particularily SP friendly with their requirements in the capacitor and gunnery sector. i wouldnt suggest the current punisher just get a blatent rocket bonus. more like it be redesigned. Punisher Amarr Frigate bonuses (per skill level): 5% bonus to rocket rate of fire 4% bonus to all armor resistances Slot layout: 3(-1) H, 3(+1) M, 4 L, 3(+3) Launcher 3 Rig Slots, 400 Calibration Fittings: 50(-7) PWG, 160(+33) CPU Defense (shields / armour / hull): 350 / 550(+50) / 450 Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 275(-125) / 135s/ 2s Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / warp speed / align time): 355 / 2.9 / 1,290,000 (+100000) / 5 / 4.8s Drones (bandwidth / bay): 0 / 0 Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 25km / 640 / 4 Sensor strength: 10 Radar Signature radius: 38(+1) The puni should keep is res bonus. to keep its combat ship line of. punisher/maller/prophecy/abaddon But with this it will get slower, loose alot of its capacitor to become like like the old rocket inquisitor but still retain a fast recharge rate. With the rof bonus it wouldn't be a dps powerhouse however over time the tankier ship and over time dps will make this a much used choice for small scale pvp. it will loose its utility high and gain a 3rd mid to maintain similarity with the maller and abaddon(no utility unless chosen) And then the maller should be redesigned to use launchers. so that amarr isnt stuck with only laser boats for cruiser combat choices. Really fozzie, the amarr frigate line up needs missiles brought back. it makes no sense to have 3 laser combat frigate choices. the punisher needs this change. or redesign the tormentor to be the missile ship. but something please. Yeah im not an expert at judging what is overpowered and what isnt. but really think outside the box. amarr NEED this. it isnt fair that every other race in the game enjoys weapon system mix ups in their frigate line. You cannot seriously tell me that the amarr military people got together and decided this would be a good idea to have 3 energy frigates. Nobody thinks like that. Nobody would limit themselves to that.
TBH i think the issue lies more in them not having a proper drone boat in the frigate lineup. I'd rather see them upgrade the Crucifier to use drones in a similar manner to the Arbitrator and Geddon, except with something like an HP and speed bonus. I'd prefer to see that translate over to the Navy Crucifier when it comes out as well, lending to a a very versatile line of ewar frigs for amarr. |
Flyinghotpocket
Amarrian Vengeance Team Amarrica
506
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Posted - 2015.10.25 20:59:35 -
[437] - Quote
Catherine Laartii wrote:Flyinghotpocket wrote:Lloyd Roses wrote:Flyinghotpocket wrote:Not having a missile frigate in the line is what is a confusing set of bread crumbs for new pilots. as they get into ships like the retribution or the crusader and wonder why these ships are total trash.
quiet frankly if your concerned about the t1 line up. how about fixing the amarr being the only race with combat cruisers using the same weapon system? while each other race enjoys missiles/drones/hybrid/projectile mix ups. Actually good points. There seems to be a lot of space still to introduce new, awesome looking ships to diversify choice and probably introduce counters to established favourites around. The Punisher with rockets would be pretty darn perfect. Lots of cap, lots of tank, a few changes again to PG/CPU and you had a newbro-brawler with a 400mm plate+AAR and resist bonus, directly translating to the vengeance. Then there'd be a choice for lasers (Executioner), lasers+drones (Torm for the advanced user with more diverse SP), mainly drones on the crucifier whose slot layout actually makes for a good solo ship even and lastly the punisher as a resilent missile boat that anyone can fly successfully by sticking within x km and firing missiles. Every newbro gets that. Mildly focused on the newbro aspect cause why would you ever fly a punisher if you can fly a tormentor instead. And none of those laserboats are particularily SP friendly with their requirements in the capacitor and gunnery sector. i wouldnt suggest the current punisher just get a blatent rocket bonus. more like it be redesigned. Punisher Amarr Frigate bonuses (per skill level): 5% bonus to rocket rate of fire 4% bonus to all armor resistances Slot layout: 3(-1) H, 3(+1) M, 4 L, 3(+3) Launcher 3 Rig Slots, 400 Calibration Fittings: 50(-7) PWG, 160(+33) CPU Defense (shields / armour / hull): 350 / 550(+50) / 450 Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 275(-125) / 135s/ 2s Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / warp speed / align time): 355 / 2.9 / 1,290,000 (+100000) / 5 / 4.8s Drones (bandwidth / bay): 0 / 0 Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 25km / 640 / 4 Sensor strength: 10 Radar Signature radius: 38(+1) The puni should keep is res bonus. to keep its combat ship line of. punisher/maller/prophecy/abaddon But with this it will get slower, loose alot of its capacitor to become like like the old rocket inquisitor but still retain a fast recharge rate. With the rof bonus it wouldn't be a dps powerhouse however over time the tankier ship and over time dps will make this a much used choice for small scale pvp. it will loose its utility high and gain a 3rd mid to maintain similarity with the maller and abaddon(no utility unless chosen) And then the maller should be redesigned to use launchers. so that amarr isnt stuck with only laser boats for cruiser combat choices. Really fozzie, the amarr frigate line up needs missiles brought back. it makes no sense to have 3 laser combat frigate choices. the punisher needs this change. or redesign the tormentor to be the missile ship. but something please. Yeah im not an expert at judging what is overpowered and what isnt. but really think outside the box. amarr NEED this. it isnt fair that every other race in the game enjoys weapon system mix ups in their frigate line. You cannot seriously tell me that the amarr military people got together and decided this would be a good idea to have 3 energy frigates. Nobody thinks like that. Nobody would limit themselves to that. TBH i think the issue lies more in them not having a proper drone boat in the frigate lineup. I'd rather see them upgrade the Crucifier to use drones in a similar manner to the Arbitrator and Geddon, except with something like an HP and speed bonus. I'd prefer to see that translate over to the Navy Crucifier when it comes out as well, lending to a a very versatile line of ewar frigs for amarr.
No. the arbitrator is probably the least used cruiser in history. ccp would never 'upgrade' the cruicifer in the way you want it to be. they will make it extremely meatyoker at best. just like the arbitrator. the geddon was a fluke on ccp's balance part. When they took away the armageddons uniqueness and made another battleship with 8 lows there was rioting and the only way they were going to fix that was by making the arma NOT suck. its very comparable in combat just like its counterparts except the arbitrator is extremely subpar to its counterparts.
drones are not the answer.
Amarr Militia Representative - A jar of nitro
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KitCat 01
Anime Masters Baka Legion
3
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Posted - 2015.10.26 02:53:41 -
[438] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote: The Firetail now matches the Fleet Stabber and Fleet Hurricane tracking bonus!
Are you considering giving the same bonus to the Tempest Fleet Issue?
Please say yes! ... Please say yes! ... Please say yes! ... Please say yes! ... Please say yes! ... Please say yes! ... ... |
Goldensaver
Lom Corporation Just let it happen
410
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Posted - 2015.10.26 13:49:42 -
[439] - Quote
I'm not sure why people are talking about the return of the Autocannon Punisher. Everybody knows Hybrids are the most popular turret right now. It's time for the rise of the kitey Rail Punisher. |
Catherine Laartii
Perkone Caldari State
608
|
Posted - 2015.10.26 19:57:45 -
[440] - Quote
Flyinghotpocket wrote:Catherine Laartii wrote:Flyinghotpocket wrote:Lloyd Roses wrote:Flyinghotpocket wrote:Not having a missile frigate in the line is what is a confusing set of bread crumbs for new pilots. as they get into ships like the retribution or the crusader and wonder why these ships are total trash.
quiet frankly if your concerned about the t1 line up. how about fixing the amarr being the only race with combat cruisers using the same weapon system? while each other race enjoys missiles/drones/hybrid/projectile mix ups. Actually good points. There seems to be a lot of space still to introduce new, awesome looking ships to diversify choice and probably introduce counters to established favourites around. The Punisher with rockets would be pretty darn perfect. Lots of cap, lots of tank, a few changes again to PG/CPU and you had a newbro-brawler with a 400mm plate+AAR and resist bonus, directly translating to the vengeance. Then there'd be a choice for lasers (Executioner), lasers+drones (Torm for the advanced user with more diverse SP), mainly drones on the crucifier whose slot layout actually makes for a good solo ship even and lastly the punisher as a resilent missile boat that anyone can fly successfully by sticking within x km and firing missiles. Every newbro gets that. Mildly focused on the newbro aspect cause why would you ever fly a punisher if you can fly a tormentor instead. And none of those laserboats are particularily SP friendly with their requirements in the capacitor and gunnery sector. i wouldnt suggest the current punisher just get a blatent rocket bonus. more like it be redesigned. Punisher Amarr Frigate bonuses (per skill level): 5% bonus to rocket rate of fire 4% bonus to all armor resistances Slot layout: 3(-1) H, 3(+1) M, 4 L, 3(+3) Launcher 3 Rig Slots, 400 Calibration Fittings: 50(-7) PWG, 160(+33) CPU Defense (shields / armour / hull): 350 / 550(+50) / 450 Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 275(-125) / 135s/ 2s Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / warp speed / align time): 355 / 2.9 / 1,290,000 (+100000) / 5 / 4.8s Drones (bandwidth / bay): 0 / 0 Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 25km / 640 / 4 Sensor strength: 10 Radar Signature radius: 38(+1) The puni should keep is res bonus. to keep its combat ship line of. punisher/maller/prophecy/abaddon But with this it will get slower, loose alot of its capacitor to become like like the old rocket inquisitor but still retain a fast recharge rate. With the rof bonus it wouldn't be a dps powerhouse however over time the tankier ship and over time dps will make this a much used choice for small scale pvp. it will loose its utility high and gain a 3rd mid to maintain similarity with the maller and abaddon(no utility unless chosen) And then the maller should be redesigned to use launchers. so that amarr isnt stuck with only laser boats for cruiser combat choices. Really fozzie, the amarr frigate line up needs missiles brought back. it makes no sense to have 3 laser combat frigate choices. the punisher needs this change. or redesign the tormentor to be the missile ship. but something please. Yeah im not an expert at judging what is overpowered and what isnt. but really think outside the box. amarr NEED this. it isnt fair that every other race in the game enjoys weapon system mix ups in their frigate line. You cannot seriously tell me that the amarr military people got together and decided this would be a good idea to have 3 energy frigates. Nobody thinks like that. Nobody would limit themselves to that. TBH i think the issue lies more in them not having a proper drone boat in the frigate lineup. I'd rather see them upgrade the Crucifier to use drones in a similar manner to the Arbitrator and Geddon, except with something like an HP and speed bonus. I'd prefer to see that translate over to the Navy Crucifier when it comes out as well, lending to a a very versatile line of ewar frigs for amarr. No. the arbitrator is probably the least used cruiser in history. ccp would never 'upgrade' the cruicifer in the way you want it to be. they will make it extremely meatyoker at best. just like the arbitrator. the geddon was a fluke on ccp's balance part. When they took away the armageddons uniqueness and made another battleship with 8 lows there was rioting and the only way they were going to fix that was by making the arma NOT suck. its very comparable in combat just like its counterparts except the arbitrator is extremely subpar to its counterparts. drones are not the answer. "The arbitrator is probably the least used cruiser in history". The arby was and remains a very popular solo cruiser; especially a few years back. It was fit primarily with a good number of neuts and wrecks utter havoc on frigate gangs. People generally just forgo the TD entirely on it, and it is only seeing less usage now due to the prevalence of the Vexor and its counterparts.
In regards to the armageddon, the changed it in the way they did to fall in line with the progression the have going starting with the Dragoon. My point stands that tracking disruptor bonuses are not exactly all that useful on t1 ships by themselves, so the crucifier getting drone bonuses or even getting drones and neut range like the Dragoon would be ideal.
I would appreciate you being clearer on where exactly you're coming from with your point since it's coming across as fairly garbled. |
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Nightfox BloodRaven
State Protectorate Caldari State
43
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Posted - 2015.10.26 20:49:38 -
[441] - Quote
You know orthrus nerf is just stupid.. you can BARELY kill a cruiser solo before reload giving them time to maneuver ecm call friends deagress whatever.. its not hard to survive.. so how the hell can you justify this... hell takes at least half a bil to fit the ship so dont give me the argument oh some scrub in a t1 frigate dont cant survive the tackle for the blob to come..
Slowly CCP killing the game.. |
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
1496
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Posted - 2015.10.26 21:45:33 -
[442] - Quote
Nightfox BloodRaven wrote:You know orthrus nerf is just stupid.. you can BARELY kill a cruiser solo before reload giving them time to maneuver ecm call friends deagress whatever.. its not hard to survive.. so how the hell can you justify this... hell takes at least half a bil to fit the ship so dont give me the argument oh some scrub in a t1 frigate dont cant survive the tackle for the blob to come..
Slowly CCP killing the game..
Orthrus nerf is not enough. Also CCP should nerf the Garmur.
The Tears Must Flow
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Flyinghotpocket
Amarrian Vengeance Team Amarrica
506
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Posted - 2015.10.27 00:45:11 -
[443] - Quote
Catherine Laartii wrote: "The arbitrator is probably the least used cruiser in history". The arby was and remains a very popular solo cruiser; especially a few years back. It was fit primarily with a good number of neuts and wrecks utter havoc on frigate gangs. People generally just forgo the TD entirely on it, and it is only seeing less usage now due to the prevalence of the Vexor and its counterparts.
The only reason the arbitrator was ever picked in the past was because it was the least ****** of the amarr cruisers and thats saying nothing really.
old omen, you had to have awu5 to fit 5 of the SMALLEST guns and a 800mm plate old maller you had to choose between a plate or a medium guns. old augoror. well that WAS the least used cruisers in history.
The only people flying arbis by choice were amarr role players. everybody knew that you brought a rupture a stfi or a gila or went home. The reason why the arbi isnt used today is because when ALL other cruisers were receiving massive buffs to DAMAGE and tank. the arbi only got a extra low. didnt get any damage increases, didnt get any tank increases, didnt get any extra bandwidth like other cruisers. the arbi was left behind and is suffereing since.
behind all the t1 logi cruisers the arbi sits proud as the least used t1 combat oriented cruiser ever.
Amarr Militia Representative - A jar of nitro
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Templar Dane
Amarrian Vengeance Team Amarrica
320
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Posted - 2015.10.27 02:53:23 -
[444] - Quote
Catherine Laartii wrote: I meant to say cruiser tackle. Merlin has issues with sig radius and shields have a lower resist profile overall vs armor, and the breacher is better at skirmishes at frigates. Destroyers and well-placed hits from cruiser weapons can alpha right through its reps fairly easily. The Punisher excels at tackling larger targets due to the utility high, low sig radius and high resists. Having a nosferatu on your punisher is ideal when tackling cruiser or larger ships with neuts on them.
Put a web on a target and it's slower. Because it is slower it's ability to dictate range is lessened, which makes your relative speed to the target much higher.....increasing angular velocity. A punisher has a much higher chance to get wrecked by cruiser guns because it has no web.
The punisher lost a 1/5 of it's resist bonus a while back. It's also losing it's utility high.
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elitatwo
Eve Minions The-Company
889
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Posted - 2015.10.27 03:59:36 -
[445] - Quote
Vaju Enki wrote:Nightfox BloodRaven wrote:You know orthrus nerf is just stupid.. you can BARELY kill a cruiser solo before reload giving them time to maneuver ecm call friends deagress whatever.. its not hard to survive.. so how the hell can you justify this... hell takes at least half a bil to fit the ship so dont give me the argument oh some scrub in a t1 frigate dont cant survive the tackle for the blob to come..
Slowly CCP killing the game.. Orthrus nerf is not enough. Also CCP should nerf the Garmur.
You may be new in New Eden but light missiles and small guns are not the only weapons in EVE. Nerfing pirate faction class ships in plain dumb.
And speaking of involuntary disassemblies, the Gila and Worm do not warrant for such a terrible nerf. If people would whine less and think more we would have more time to spend on important things.
Dear CCP Ytterbium, please explain to the kids how CCP sees pirate faction ships compared to others.
Tired of low and nullsec? Join Eve Minions and experience the beauty of wormholes!
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W0lf Crendraven
Welfcorp
389
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Posted - 2015.10.27 04:11:19 -
[446] - Quote
Nightfox BloodRaven wrote:You know orthrus nerf is just stupid.. you can BARELY kill a cruiser solo before reload giving them time to maneuver ecm call friends deagress whatever.. its not hard to survive.. so how the hell can you justify this... hell takes at least half a bil to fit the ship so dont give me the argument oh some scrub in a t1 frigate dont cant survive the tackle for the blob to come..
Slowly CCP killing the game..
lol |
Fourteen Maken
Omega Industry Inc. The Ditanian Alliance
232
|
Posted - 2015.10.27 06:58:03 -
[447] - Quote
Flyinghotpocket wrote:Catherine Laartii wrote: "The arbitrator is probably the least used cruiser in history". The arby was and remains a very popular solo cruiser; especially a few years back. It was fit primarily with a good number of neuts and wrecks utter havoc on frigate gangs. People generally just forgo the TD entirely on it, and it is only seeing less usage now due to the prevalence of the Vexor and its counterparts.
The only reason the arbitrator was ever picked in the past was because it was the least ****** of the amarr cruisers and thats saying nothing really. old omen, you had to have awu5 to fit 5 of the SMALLEST guns and a 800mm plate old maller you had to choose between a plate or a medium guns. old augoror. well that WAS the least used cruisers in history. The only people flying arbis by choice were amarr role players. everybody knew that you brought a rupture a stfi or a gila or went home. The reason why the arbi isnt used today is because when ALL other cruisers were receiving massive buffs to DAMAGE and tank. the arbi only got a extra low. didnt get any damage increases, didnt get any tank increases, didnt get any extra bandwidth like other cruisers. the arbi was left behind and is suffereing since. behind all the t1 logi cruisers the arbi sits proud as the least used t1 combat oriented cruiser ever.
The Maller and the Omen are weaksauce imo, Arbitrator is fine compared to other ewar cruisers.
They suffer from Amarr syndrome of having weapons that are good when you have range control... but they have no range control
Support a fairer loyalty point market for faction war:
The sinews of war; infinite money.
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Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
4701
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Posted - 2015.10.27 07:12:27 -
[448] - Quote
Can we get a physical size reduction on the Barghest in the order of 25-33%?
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Iyacia Cyric'ai
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
177
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Posted - 2015.10.27 08:57:43 -
[449] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:Can we get a physical size reduction on the Barghest in the order of 25-33%? It has a larger surface area than a Chimera carrier... Try looking at it sideways. |
Iyacia Cyric'ai
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
177
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Posted - 2015.10.27 08:59:38 -
[450] - Quote
Nightfox BloodRaven wrote:You know orthrus nerf is just stupid.. you can BARELY kill a cruiser solo before reload giving them time to maneuver ecm call friends deagress whatever.. its not hard to survive.. so how the hell can you justify this... hell takes at least half a bil to fit the ship so dont give me the argument oh some scrub in a t1 frigate dont cant survive the tackle for the blob to come..
Slowly CCP killing the game.. I'll just leave this here. https://zkillboard.com/kill/47133497/ |
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