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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 24 post(s) |
Jon Illat
I.C.E Initiative
10
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Posted - 2015.10.02 21:10:40 -
[31] - Quote
Data vs Relic for ghost sites, no real difference.
Data analyser for Besieged sites? Please no. As said by others in the thread, they already require a special set up to run safely and successfully, adding yet another requirement to run them will just result in more annoyance and danger.
Quote: Putting the requirement for the Data Analyzer on the Ghost and Besieged sites increases the value of the module. (Currently both Analyser modules are accepted in these sites and it's not consistent with any other sites)
I think you may be confused. Besieged sites do not require any analyser to run, please do not add the requirement for a data analyser for this site. |
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
375
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Posted - 2015.10.02 21:25:39 -
[32] - Quote
I soo wasted (firiday night) but:
CCP RedDawn wrote:* Halved the drop amount of the most commonly used building materials found in all data sites. (EG: Positron Cords, Electric Conduits etc) CCP blue guy mr. ReDdaWn. This items are worthless, changing drop rate won't make a difference. Weeee
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Callduron
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Squids
628
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Posted - 2015.10.02 22:42:36 -
[33] - Quote
COSMOS materials really need to be sellable on the market.
Usually now when someone loots one of these obcsure items they just leave it in their hangar.
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DeCubaN Deninard
Eve Minions The-Company
1
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Posted - 2015.10.03 00:13:08 -
[34] - Quote
Sugar Kyle wrote:Muahhaha!
Aww yisss I want to start off with a big thanks to CCP RedDawn, Sugar Kyle and any other people involved with making these changes happen.
I sent Sugar a message at the beginning of March this year asking her is it would be possible to look into Storyline blueprints, Storyline mats and relic and data site drops. Working with Sugar I helped to document some of the problems I saw with exploration and storyline mods. She was able to find a willing dev, <3 CCP RedDawn, to take on looking into my suggestions and making what they could into reality.
I'm so happy to see that I was able to help influence this awesome game and am psyched to see the new roadmap. Thanks again for all the hard work on this! |
Chance Ravinne
WiNGSPAN Delivery Services The WINGSPAN Logo Alliance
520
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Posted - 2015.10.03 00:32:49 -
[35] - Quote
Very glad to see these changes moving forward. They are hopefully not the only iteration, but I think a good first step. And certainly when POSes die off to new structures, we will probably see some interesting adjustments thereafter.
Regarding the Data Analyzer use for Ghost Sites, this is something I encouraged, along with some of the other changes in here.
I know it's easier to have Ghost sites use both modules, but that easiness feeds into the whole "I only need a Relic Analyzer ever" feeling of exploration. If turrets could fire missiles, nobody would ever equip missile launchers, and if turrets lost that ability, it would feel annoying at first but would make more sense in the long run.
It's also wholly strange in terms of the context of ghost sites -- which are clearly not archaeological in any fashion, but instead are advanced pirate research facilities and data processing centers.
You've just read another awesome post by Chance Ravinne, CEO of EVE's #1 torpedo delivery service. Watch our misadventures on my YouTube channel: WINGSPANTT
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Lulu Lunette
Blue Aurochs United Systems of Aridia
89
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Posted - 2015.10.03 00:33:32 -
[36] - Quote
Interesting changes - looking forward to it
o7
@lunettelulu7
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Aivlis Eldelbar
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve Curatores Veritatis Alliance
108
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Posted - 2015.10.03 01:55:23 -
[37] - Quote
CCP RedDawn wrote:Hello all. * All Ghost and Besieged Covert Research Facility exploration sites now require the use of the Data Analyzer module.
This stands out to me as the only bad change, forcing us to use that module. If you make the rewards in Data sites worthwhile, we'll fit it or drop a depot, but making this arbitrary distinction feels out of place.
Apart from that snag, I wanted to say thanks for improving Data sites and COSMOS drops. It's something that has been asked for many times and I'm glad to see it in game at last. |
Ayx Shewma
0scope Goonswarm Federation
77
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Posted - 2015.10.03 03:04:15 -
[38] - Quote
Another vote for making ghost sites Cosmic Signatures. |
Winter Archipelago
Autumn Industrial Enterprises
413
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Posted - 2015.10.03 05:17:31 -
[39] - Quote
SpaceSaft wrote:More importantly, can you shift the minimum reward value away from 0? Really tired of opening hard cans with nothing or carbon in it. For what it's worth, I switched out my Data Analyzer for a Cargo Scanner. Scan the cans as I'm coming up to the first one, and if any are junk (or especially simply empty), mark the can and purposely blow it up at the first opportunity. The frustrations with a Red can having trash in it vanished almost immediately after doing so.
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Torgeir Hekard
I MYSELF AND ME
204
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Posted - 2015.10.03 05:22:33 -
[40] - Quote
CCP RedDawn wrote: * Storyline modules should have a tiericide pass on them to make them worthwhile, however, this is at least a step in the right direction to give you 'some' more options in ship fitting (plus, is it not better that these items at least start getting more traction?)
But the tiericide is exactly what's making storyline modules obsolete. Take propmods. The value of storyline propmods was in the low fitting which now can be achieved with cheap compact propmods. There's no point bothering with storylines. Their price have to drop about tenfold to even be considered worth looking at. Meanwhile the most useful storylines currently are arguably cap boosters. For the same low fitting. Once cap boosters get a tiericide pass with a compact version, this advantage is gone. And there's literally no other reason to get storyline cap boosters.
CCP RedDawn wrote: * Putting the requirement for the Data Analyzer on the Ghost and Besieged sites increases the value of the module. (Currently both Analyser modules are accepted in these sites and it's not consistent with any other sites)
Besieged sites DO NOT currently require any module, and requiring hacking for the besieged sites is stupid. First, they give you loot as a payment for you saving them from evil blood-thirst mordus. Second, besieged sites are tough as it is, requiring to squeeze every ounce of performance out of your ship. Having to spare a midslot and, moreover, forcing you into a hacking-bonused hull is bad. Especially on a time-limited site. |
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Dino Zavr
Shadow Owls
50
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Posted - 2015.10.03 06:09:09 -
[41] - Quote
Dear CCP RedDawn,
Sorry to say this, but I am rather skeptical about COSMOS modules. Their materials are too rare, they require a hell lot of skills to build and they are totally inferior to dedspace modules which are rather common nowadays. So cosmos thingies require a very serious tiersiding to become really demanded. It might be a good idea to create more really shiny COSMOS modules where blue dedspace ones do not exist like shield extenders, inertial stabilizers and such
Can you, please, make expeditions from exploration sites triggered by all cans hacked? The faster this is done then more expedition chance is. This may be nice factor to make decision between cherry-picking and full site cleanup.
Also, please, make partially hacked sites to despawn faster. In my opinion it would be great to implement site lifetime timer starting at first warp in (cloaked or not). At least it will force explorer-hunters to move at least occasionally and scan new signatures instead of sitting semi-AFK in one single site for a whole day waiting for their prey.
Thanks |
voetius
Quiet Days in Clichy
393
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Posted - 2015.10.03 08:08:28 -
[42] - Quote
Good to see you are starting to look at the drop rates of COSMOS materials.
I've done a fair amount of COSMOS building and if the drop rate of some of the super rare drops increases that can only be good for me. I've got a few BPC sitting around and just can't get one or two of the materials despite setting up very high buy orders.
Thanks. |
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
376
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Posted - 2015.10.03 09:00:07 -
[43] - Quote
CCP RedDawn wrote: * Removed all skill books from Relic sites and placed them into Data sites. (Includes Encryption books)
Good
CCP RedDawn wrote:* Removed the more commonly dropped 'non rig-related' blueprints from all the Relic sites. (They will still drop in Data sites) Ok, but 90% of BPC are worthless anyway. I would like to see BPC for new structures in data sites. Generally wider spectrum of blueprints.
CCP RedDawn wrote:* Introduced all Cosmos site building materials to all 4 tiers of Data sites. What are 4 tier data site?
CCP RedDawn wrote:* Increased the drop frequency of the Cosmos sites items that are currently on the Data site loot tables. Do you mean faction materials? Because they don't drop now, I've seen a single one since they were introduced and I don't skip data sites.
As for cosmos. They need a balance pass. For now they are super expensive to build and not worth to buy. They perform as T2 items with lower fittings costs. Market is stuffed with deadspace mods that are better. I don't think above changes will help with them. Cosmos BPC are plenty, now we will have more mats for them, prices may drop to level that nobody will touch them. Good example how system works here are implants BPCs from Ghost sites. Most of cases it's not worth to produce them but to sell materials needed to build them. It's rather there are too many BPCs or too low volume of villard wheels in ghost sites.
"(...) I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas (...)"
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Jiro Kobaiashi
Decima Technology
3
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Posted - 2015.10.03 14:59:26 -
[44] - Quote
Awsome, all we need now is a good reason to use the storyline modules (lookign at you, guns and reps) |
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CCP RedDawn
C C P C C P Alliance
658
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Posted - 2015.10.03 15:06:23 -
[45] - Quote
I've listened and I'll revert the change to require a Data Analyzer for Besieged sites. So no changes will be made to that site.
Team Space Glitter
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Stjornuvindur
Isogen 5
2
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Posted - 2015.10.03 16:02:38 -
[46] - Quote
Impressive feedback response :D and some good changes accepting the pointlessness of some of these sites.
Can we confirm we are switching from Relic OR Data module to ONLY USE data analyser in Ghosts?
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CCP RedDawn
C C P C C P Alliance
658
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Posted - 2015.10.03 16:23:34 -
[47] - Quote
Stjornuvindur wrote:Impressive feedback response :D and some good changes accepting the pointlessness of some of these sites.
Can we confirm we are switching from Relic OR Data module to ONLY USE data analyser in Ghosts?
Yes I'm still going to update all the Ghost site containers to require the Data Analyzer module only.
Team Space Glitter
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Kayden Katelo
Mythic Heights
5
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Posted - 2015.10.03 17:42:32 -
[48] - Quote
CCP RedDawn, as a very long time explorer I am very grateful you are actively looking into Data/Relic sites and making improvements. Most changes proposed are great. Your reversal on the Besieged sites is very appreciated. The use of data analyzer on Ghost sites is a good move.
I would echo one request, please make Ghost sites sigs and not anoms. It ought to have been this way from the beginning and may help increase their value.
I hope exploration will play a meaningful role in Citadel construction. Currently it is very disappointing that hacking will play no role is citadel destruction loot recovery nor dead stick removal. There is a huge loss of gaming potential here. |
DaOpa
Static Corp
51
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Posted - 2015.10.03 17:50:25 -
[49] - Quote
The Data & Archaeology containers in the COSMOS Static complexes all need to be updated if your going to go ahead with this sort of a change to regular data sites.
Don't forget about them...
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Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
3648
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Posted - 2015.10.03 20:15:08 -
[50] - Quote
I think this is good, but not enough. At one time I saw a comment from CCP saying they wanted exploration to be the best ISK making PVE activity. In high sec, this certainly is not the case. L4 missions do better. Incursions are better. What could be done? Make the loot table wider. That is, include more items. I suggest the inclusion of all skillbooks and all T1 BPOs. The drop rate would have to be carefully limited, so as to not exceed the current market demand. (Otherwise we have a price crash, and the loot becomes worthless.)
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Jon Illat
I.C.E Initiative
10
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Posted - 2015.10.03 20:39:24 -
[51] - Quote
CCP RedDawn wrote:I've listened and I'll cancel the change to require a Data Analyzer for Besieged sites. So no changes will be made to that site.
Thank you so much :) |
Aivlis Eldelbar
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve Curatores Veritatis Alliance
108
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Posted - 2015.10.03 21:09:20 -
[52] - Quote
Kayden Katelo wrote:CCP RedDawn, as a very long time explorer I am very grateful you are actively looking into Data/Relic sites and making improvements. Most changes proposed are great. Your reversal on the Besieged sites is very appreciated. The use of data analyzer on Ghost sites is a good move.
I would echo one request, please make Ghost sites sigs and not anoms. It ought to have been this way from the beginning and may help increase their value.
I hope exploration will play a meaningful role in Citadel construction. Currently it is very disappointing that hacking will play no role is citadel destruction loot recovery nor dead stick removal. There is a huge loss of gaming potential here.
Actually, this would be very welcome. I usually pass up Ghost sites because I have anoms turned off while exploring, since they are so numerous and clutter the list (:cough: get rid of the ****** anoms :cough:). I realize you want Ghost sites to draw more poeple into exploration by making them appear as anoms, but what I usually see is that anom runners ask each other what they are, scratch their heads and ignore them, while explorers passing through often miss altogether.
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Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
3181
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Posted - 2015.10.03 21:31:27 -
[53] - Quote
I truly do wish this would work, but I don't believe it will. I have been providing feedback on data and relic sites since Odyssey was released and I have watched the slow downward spiral of there value since then. The changes in industry helped accelerate this as did the changes in scanning making it much easier to scan down sites. The Discovery Scanner is also one of the things has devalued in a more indirect way.
The bottom line is everything form data and relic sites are consumer based and if there is no consumer demand for the items the sites will always be of low value.
You would need to either introduce a means of NPC buy order items into the data sites to guarantee there value or cut the number of items you get from the sites dramatically to force the items to become more valuable.
If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
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Kel hound
The Scope Gallente Federation
136
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Posted - 2015.10.03 23:13:11 -
[54] - Quote
CCP RedDawn wrote:Stjornuvindur wrote:Impressive feedback response :D and some good changes accepting the pointlessness of some of these sites.
Can we confirm we are switching from Relic OR Data module to ONLY USE data analyser in Ghosts?
Yes I'm still going to update all the Ghost site containers to require the Data Analyzer module only.
I've wondered for a long time now - Why do we actually need separate hacking skills and modules for these sites? Other than some minor differences in expected loot drops there is no real discernible difference between a Relic and Data site. Both use the same hacking window, both reward similar loot, both share a similar look and feel.
Really, as far as I can tell, the only difference is that one has me hacking a weird tower with a bunch of spinny rings, the other has me hacking a derelict ship. Is it just to make sure we fill at least 2 mid-slots on our probe ships? I don't get it, there's not enough variation to justify splitting up Data and Relic into separate things. |
Chance Ravinne
WiNGSPAN Delivery Services The WINGSPAN Logo Alliance
521
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Posted - 2015.10.04 00:12:42 -
[55] - Quote
Kel hound wrote:CCP RedDawn wrote:Stjornuvindur wrote:Impressive feedback response :D and some good changes accepting the pointlessness of some of these sites.
Can we confirm we are switching from Relic OR Data module to ONLY USE data analyser in Ghosts?
Yes I'm still going to update all the Ghost site containers to require the Data Analyzer module only. I've wondered for a long time now - Why do we actually need separate hacking skills and modules for these sites? Other than some minor differences in expected loot drops there is no real discernible difference between a Relic and Data site. Both use the same hacking window, both reward similar loot, both share a similar look and feel. Really, as far as I can tell, the only difference is that one has me hacking a weird tower with a bunch of spinny rings, the other has me hacking a derelict ship. Is it just to make sure we fill at least 2 mid-slots on our probe ships? I don't get it, there's not enough variation to justify splitting up Data and Relic into separate things.
I submitted a proposal to merge these skills/modules but right now it doesn't seem feasible... plus perhaps CCP has some cool ideas for further differentiating them in the future.
I'm also curious what the explorers here think about cargo scanners in exploration sites?
You've just read another awesome post by Chance Ravinne, CEO of EVE's #1 torpedo delivery service. Watch our misadventures on my YouTube channel: WINGSPANTT
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Aivlis Eldelbar
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve Curatores Veritatis Alliance
108
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Posted - 2015.10.04 00:27:36 -
[56] - Quote
Chance Ravinne wrote:Kel hound wrote:CCP RedDawn wrote:Stjornuvindur wrote:Impressive feedback response :D and some good changes accepting the pointlessness of some of these sites.
Can we confirm we are switching from Relic OR Data module to ONLY USE data analyser in Ghosts?
Yes I'm still going to update all the Ghost site containers to require the Data Analyzer module only. I've wondered for a long time now - Why do we actually need separate hacking skills and modules for these sites? Other than some minor differences in expected loot drops there is no real discernible difference between a Relic and Data site. Both use the same hacking window, both reward similar loot, both share a similar look and feel. Really, as far as I can tell, the only difference is that one has me hacking a weird tower with a bunch of spinny rings, the other has me hacking a derelict ship. Is it just to make sure we fill at least 2 mid-slots on our probe ships? I don't get it, there's not enough variation to justify splitting up Data and Relic into separate things. I submitted a proposal to merge these skills/modules but right now it doesn't seem feasible... plus perhaps CCP has some cool ideas for further differentiating them in the future. I'm also curious what the explorers here think about cargo scanners in exploration sites?
I personally wish there wasn't a need for them, people use them to avoid wasting time flying around for empty cans. Relic sites right now have pretty well spread loot so you can eschew it, but Data often has one good can and a lot of very crappy ones, so the cargo scanner is a must.
Same with ghost sites, there is not enough time to hack all the cans so the scanner is a must to avoid picking the wrong cans to hack. It can be argued, however, that this makes you choose what loot you want before the site blows up, so ti's not as bad as with Data sites where you just waste your time, no choice involved.
tl;dr: either make it unnecessary to cargo scan or leave it as it is. Restricting its use would turn Ghost sites into a roulette.
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Sugar Kyle
Middle Ground
1040
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Posted - 2015.10.04 00:47:55 -
[57] - Quote
The modules are being rebalanced as they go through the sets they belong to.
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Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
3183
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Posted - 2015.10.04 03:00:32 -
[58] - Quote
Chance Ravinne wrote:I'm also curious what the explorers here think about cargo scanners in exploration sites? To remove cargo scanning you would have to reduce the number of cans per site, especially in the Ghost sites. If they were to remove cargo scanning for hacking containers then I would push for the total removal of cargo scanning form all PVE activities.
Sugar Kyle wrote:The modules are being rebalanced as they go through the sets they belong to. Yes the Metacide project is a very much welcomed project, but it doesn't make the modules in any more of a demand, deadspace and faction are often items much easier to get and produce (if applicable) and it does not reduce the skill requirements of manufacturing some of the items.
If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
1841
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Posted - 2015.10.04 07:12:51 -
[59] - Quote
Chance Ravinne wrote:I submitted a proposal to merge these skills/modules but right now it doesn't seem feasible... plus perhaps CCP has some cool ideas for further differentiating them in the future.
I'm also curious what the explorers here think about cargo scanners in exploration sites? I'm not much of an explorer, I just dabble from time to time. merging the two hacker thingys sounds like a good idea to me, especially since as far as I can tell the do the same thing.
personally I think it is weird that you can cargo scan explo sites in the first place. In ghost sites it sounds like it makes more sense as you are rather time limited and adds to the task at hand. I'll leave more in depth arguments to people that run the content more often.
@ChainsawPlankto
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Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
378
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Posted - 2015.10.04 08:22:15 -
[60] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:You would need to either introduce a means of NPC buy order items into the data sites to guarantee there value or cut the number of items you get from the sites dramatically to force the items to become more valuable. I was thinking about it, but it would like loot from sleepers site, ISK printing. We need to find items that are linked with market. Relics are in good state. Ghost sites are in good state. Data contain items that can be obtained from other sources and are not consumed enough. If we want to stick with "data lore" then maybe skillbooks, or tags?
What is the key here: -relics drops BPCs and materials to use them; -ghost drop BPCs and materials to use them; -data drops....
I'm browsing eve-markets but can't find suitable items. Cosmos modules are not enough, they won't have enough interest to fill the ISK gap between data and relic sites.
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:I'm not much of an explorer, I just dabble from time to time. merging the two hacker thingys sounds like a good idea to me, especially since as far as I can tell the do the same thing. CCP distinguished them in sleepers sites. Data module is for hacking devices on grid (unlocking warp gates, hack defense units), relic is for hacking loot cans. It's skill treshold for these sites.
As for cargo scanning. I was against it at start. When CCP introduced sleepers sites I started to change my mind. There are just too many cans on grids. It's +30 hack I presume. It also help to take meanigful choices when explorer is on grid (which can hack first etc.).
"(...) I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas (...)"
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