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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 16 post(s) |
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CCP Ytterbium
C C P C C P Alliance
4060
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Posted - 2015.09.17 16:09:30 -
[31] - Quote
Barubary Evans wrote:Quote:If the structure is invulnerable, a timer will be shown counting how much time left before it is vulnerable again Doesn't this completely negate the line in the previous paragraph about having to actually put effort into scouting and infiltrating to know when something will be open to attack? I would say to not show how long until the structure is vulnerable again, excepting if it's a timer created by damaging it previously. Make people actually do some homework instead of knowing instantly "show up at this time."
You still have to scout to get the timer. Full information would be to allow third parties to have full access on how the vulnerability weekly schedule looks like each week, which we won't give. |
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Aebe Amraen
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
179
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Posted - 2015.09.17 16:10:46 -
[32] - Quote
Captain StringfellowHawk wrote:Andre Vauban wrote:How are you going to prevent a single kiting sniper from applying damage constantly to prolong the repair timer until you have to go to sleep? Ie warp a sniper corm in at range, shoot once, warp off. Repeat this with a single pilot until you have to log off. It's nearly impossible to stop and you have effective control of the grid, but you can never repair your structure since they are taking pot shots at it. I think once its fully Repped your out of luck from how I read it. If it takes no damage in 30 seconds repairs kick in. It takes 15 total minutes to fully repair. So if your kiting ship is not beating its repair rate, as you warp in and out it will have of just repaired itself up. Hence why having Grid control and getting your enemies off is important as quick as possible. Shoot it once during repair and it stops for 30 seconds. 30 seconds go by and no damage is received in that time repair cycle kicks back in. Kitey ship shoots it again, warps off.. 30 second pause.. DPS doesnt do much of anything to it tho 30 seconds go by and that damage is repped as well as more until the ship lands to shoot it again and then warp off. 30 seconds go by, damage was still negligible so it finished its repair cycle after 15 minutes of self-repair. The repair completed after the vulnerability cycle due to 30 second pauses, and it went back to an Invulnerable state. Compared to if a fleet was on field shooting it which would keep the repair cycle from restarting and eventually it would get reinforced or chased away. If reinforced , wash, rinse, repeat x2 more times for armor and Structure. If chased away and it had time to repair.. wait until next window.
Andre has a legitimate concern here. A cormorant with a lot of bookmarks can easily apply damage once every 30 seconds, from >100km out, while being nearly impossible to catch. It doesn't matter that he has **** damage, as long as he can keep the repair timer prolonged (until the rest of his fleet arrives, for example, or just until he gets tired of trolling). |
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CCP Nullarbor
C C P C C P Alliance
1436
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Posted - 2015.09.17 16:14:18 -
[33] - Quote
Aebe Amraen wrote:Captain StringfellowHawk wrote:Andre Vauban wrote:How are you going to prevent a single kiting sniper from applying damage constantly to prolong the repair timer until you have to go to sleep? Ie warp a sniper corm in at range, shoot once, warp off. Repeat this with a single pilot until you have to log off. It's nearly impossible to stop and you have effective control of the grid, but you can never repair your structure since they are taking pot shots at it. I think once its fully Repped your out of luck from how I read it. If it takes no damage in 30 seconds repairs kick in. It takes 15 total minutes to fully repair. So if your kiting ship is not beating its repair rate, as you warp in and out it will have of just repaired itself up. Hence why having Grid control and getting your enemies off is important as quick as possible. Shoot it once during repair and it stops for 30 seconds. 30 seconds go by and no damage is received in that time repair cycle kicks back in. Kitey ship shoots it again, warps off.. 30 second pause.. DPS doesnt do much of anything to it tho 30 seconds go by and that damage is repped as well as more until the ship lands to shoot it again and then warp off. 30 seconds go by, damage was still negligible so it finished its repair cycle after 15 minutes of self-repair. The repair completed after the vulnerability cycle due to 30 second pauses, and it went back to an Invulnerable state. Compared to if a fleet was on field shooting it which would keep the repair cycle from restarting and eventually it would get reinforced or chased away. If reinforced , wash, rinse, repeat x2 more times for armor and Structure. If chased away and it had time to repair.. wait until next window. Andre has a legitimate concern here. A cormorant with a lot of bookmarks can easily apply damage once every 30 seconds, from >100km out, while being nearly impossible to catch. It doesn't matter that he has **** damage, as long as he can keep the repair timer prolonged (until the rest of his fleet arrives, for example, or just until he gets tired of trolling).
We will probably do a shorter timer (say 10 seconds) to resume counting down the repair timer as well as a small % damage threshold to trigger the pause. Balancing these will be required to prevent the hit and run tactics which we stated we want to prevent being effective.
CCP Nullarbor // Senior Engineer // Team Game of Drones
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Captain StringfellowHawk
Forsaken Reavers Goonswarm Federation
231
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Posted - 2015.09.17 16:14:49 -
[34] - Quote
Sbrodor wrote:omg. we fall back to the past!
i really dont see the point of difference of the past where 30 super of (choose your name favorite ally) again blobbing at own pleasure player trying to build something with time and effort.
Except that the supers arent taking your SOV, They are only shooting citadels. All forms of ships should have some use. Not just rely on a magic Disney Mickey mouse paint wand to zap something until its painted your color.
Think carefully to when you guys had Imperium visit your home. Instead of iHubs they were using as a point, now instead they roll these Citadels which are supposed to replace Outposts. They take 40 or so Citadels out in around 3 days. Still due to blobbing mechanices, no supers needed, just Mickey Mouse paint wands and zapping until it was theirs or destroyed.
Which content would you rather have for ALL your pilots. Sit and watch one dude with entosis on a citadel quickly burn it in a few days with the rest doing nothing but watching Netflix or playing other games on another monitor. Wouldn't you rather have your pilots actually participating in the destruction of said item, letting them be involved in the process and feel useful? I know me personally I would rather be involved in the shooting process vs sitting boredly watching one ship get to do something. I trained my character to fly ships and fire guns for a reason Compared to just roll an alt, train it to infomorph IV and wave a wand with a 30ish day old character.
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HeXxploiT
Big Diggers Get Off My Lawn
186
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Posted - 2015.09.17 16:15:21 -
[35] - Quote
My thoughts are every bit as convoluted as Eve sovereignty mechanics have become. At least the appearance for those of us attempting to follow sov seems that way.
Remember that quote by William Shakespeare?
Quote:"Sovereignty mechanics are an enigma, wrapped in a conundrum, tied to a riddle that baffles the mind of men"
My concern is that all this back & forth is going to frustrate players more than the changes themselves.
I do appreciate to amount of poise and tact devs have displayed in the face of the onslaught of negative feedback. It has demonstrated an abundance of professionalism on your(devs) part.
Whatever happens I hope this works and things begin to settle down as pilots begin to understand the system. |
Tobias Frank
7
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Posted - 2015.09.17 16:19:37 -
[36] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote:Tobias Frank wrote:Looks promising!
Also, will we get docking scenes in the new citadels as we have now in stations/outposts when we are docked? Ship spinning is an important feature! No docking scene. When you dock, the camera will be centered around the structure instead, so you can now play structure spinning.
Can we keep the spinning-counter at least? |
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
23040
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Posted - 2015.09.17 16:22:44 -
[37] - Quote
Well, its going to be interesting, that's for sure.
Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
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Barubary Evans
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
3
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Posted - 2015.09.17 16:25:39 -
[38] - Quote
Tobias Frank wrote:Can we keep the spinning-counter at least? This is the most important question in the thread. We need our spin counter, CCP! |
Gosti Kahanid
Farstriders Apocalypse Now.
94
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Posted - 2015.09.17 16:27:07 -
[39] - Quote
I'm on my mobile, so I will keep my question short: Is it possible to mittigate the damage an enemy is causing during Repair phase by repairing the Station with a Logi or carrier? I don't mean to repair shields while in armor-phase, but lets say the enemy has my armour at 50%, can I repair back as long as armor didn't reach 0%? |
Skia Aumer
Planetary Harvesting and Processing LLC Desman Alliance
186
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Posted - 2015.09.17 16:27:53 -
[40] - Quote
Quote:Entosis links are not going to work on new structures <3 Ytterbium |
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Asuka Solo
Instant Annihilation This Isn't Going To End Well
2997
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Posted - 2015.09.17 16:29:31 -
[41] - Quote
CCP Strikes back.
Thank you guys. This lays a good enough foundation to give capitals new life moving forward..... + 10 interwebz
Just dont relegate the big hulls to pure structure bashing again..... for the love of...
Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!
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Ransu Asanari
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
356
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Posted - 2015.09.17 16:31:19 -
[42] - Quote
Quote:We revaluated our position on Wormhole space asset safety from our GÇ£I feel safe in Citadel cityGÇ¥ blog. Structures destroyed in wormhole space will see all of their assets lost when destroyed and subject to the magical loot fairy rules that would normally apply for ship cargohold.
I have mixed feelings about this.
While I think it's good that we are preserving a lot of the gameplay relating to evictions, the change will definitely push out some corps from lower class space.
Was the idea of having the asset security for Citadels in Low Class wormholes, but not High Class ever discussed? My thought was to have Asset Safety in C1-C4, but not C5-C6.
Everyone knows in C1-C3 the reason a lot of smaller groups can set up shop is because of the massive amount of HP you can get out of a large POS, and the EWAR - just makes it incredibly painful to try to siege. A lot of Industrialists will do this, and never have to actually defend their towers.
The change to Citadels means it will be easier to evict people who don't fight, but it also hurts smaller groups - especially if there is no asset safety; smaller corps will be less willing to live in C1-C3.
A lot of the larger groups complained that the amount of time and effort that go into High Class evictions, part of the motivation is the ISK pinata in the form of ships and equipment if they manage to crack the locked-out hangars. If asset safety keeps all of their loot safe, there is less motivation to invade other holes.
Pros:
- Gives smaller groups some measure of safety and allows them to establish in lower class wormholes that aren't nearly as profitable. Industrialists will still have a reasonable amount of assets at risk in the form of build jobs, BPCs, possibly gas/booster reaction products. But if you are there to do some ISK making but also fight (especially at lower skill levels), re-establishing yourself if your Citadel gets destroyed isn't the end of the world. And because the asset system restricts to that W-Space system only, it's still more difficult to retrieve them if someone else sets up shop in that hole, compared to NPC Nullsec.
-I'd expect to see C1-C3 systems trade hands more often, and it might encourage more combat in low class W-Space due to less grinding required to reinforce structures. If there is some ISK to be made by looting the structure wreck, fittings, etc that will be more of an incentive.
-C4 space since getting the second static is becoming a place for more PVP groups to base out of to attack both higher and lower class space. We've seen a few groups move from C5 down to C4 space after the change. This gives it more value as well as having the asset security. A lot of the reason I think C4 should get asset security is because of the lack of capital travel in/out of connections, and lack of capital escalations.
-C5/C6 space should get no asset security because of how valuable they are in terms of ISK generation via capital escalations. If capital escalations are being changed- for example moved to Shattered WH only, or something else - then this doesn't work, but I think it's a very good risk vs reward balance. You can make a lot of ISK in C5/C6 space, but your assets have no security. This allows larger groups to fight in that space and still keeps the motivation to fight in terms of an ISK incentive. It also keeps C5/C6 space from being a place where a group can have their Citadels constantly destroyed and just put new ones down because there is no moon lock.
Cons:
-This may discourage groups from living in C5/C6 space even more than currently because of the lack of protection. I'm honestly not sure how to solve this but I don't think the Citadels change will make that much impact.
-Some of the groups that live in C1-C3 space probably wouldn't be happy that their loot pinatas are going away. There were a few people in the last Townhall that expressed this. I think that if there is more dynamic combat in low class space it'll offset the occasional siege and loot pinata they can get. Also, if the Citadels drop a decent amount of loot in terms of salvage/minerals, and the Citadel modules that will still make it worth it. I expect if someone takes over a wormhole, there will be some negotiations on a meta level to let that person evacuate their assets. |
Cobat Marland
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
19
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Posted - 2015.09.17 16:35:08 -
[43] - Quote
Sbrodor wrote:omg. we fall back to the past!
i really dont see the point of difference of the past where 30 super of (choose your name favorite ally) again blobbing at own pleasure player trying to build something with time and effort.
30 dudes should always be able to kick over one guys sandcastle doesnt matter what kinda ships they use |
xttz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
677
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Posted - 2015.09.17 16:37:03 -
[44] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote:Tobias Frank wrote:Looks promising!
Also, will we get docking scenes in the new citadels as we have now in stations/outposts when we are docked? Ship spinning is an important feature! No docking scene. When you dock, the camera will be centered around the structure instead, so you can now play structure spinning.
Walking in stations nerf confirmed! |
Yroc Jannseen
Enlightened Industries Goonswarm Federation
142
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Posted - 2015.09.17 16:37:44 -
[45] - Quote
xttz wrote:CCP Ytterbium wrote:Tobias Frank wrote:Looks promising!
Also, will we get docking scenes in the new citadels as we have now in stations/outposts when we are docked? Ship spinning is an important feature! No docking scene. When you dock, the camera will be centered around the structure instead, so you can now play structure spinning. Walking in stations nerf confirmed!
And nothing of value was lost. |
drunklies
Nocturnal Romance Cynosural Field Theory.
9
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Posted - 2015.09.17 16:38:04 -
[46] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote:Tobias Frank wrote:Looks promising!
Also, will we get docking scenes in the new citadels as we have now in stations/outposts when we are docked? Ship spinning is an important feature! No docking scene. When you dock, the camera will be centered around the structure instead, so you can now play structure spinning.
Will we get a structure spin counter? Will we be able to zoom in enough to pick out our current ship? |
Lady Aesir
Ghost Recon Inc
19
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Posted - 2015.09.17 16:38:56 -
[47] - Quote
WOW CCP are starting to show signs of life.
Bravo this looks very promising and a definite improvement on previous plans |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
16641
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Posted - 2015.09.17 16:39:33 -
[48] - Quote
This looks rather well thought out on the face of it.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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Ariz Black
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
3
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Posted - 2015.09.17 16:40:31 -
[49] - Quote
Will there be any auto-defenses to deal with small / insignificant fleets trying to take down something big?
Assuming no defenders show up:
E.g. currently, say a gang of 5 battleships, would just die to a deathstar POS. In the new system, the can take down a whole citadel?
There needs to be some basic form of auto-defense which will handle minor threats. |
Thomas Lear
SUNDERING Goonswarm Federation
5
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Posted - 2015.09.17 16:41:31 -
[50] - Quote
[quote=Cobat Marland Is it safe to assume they can be hit with fighterbombers along with guns?[/quote]
This I am wondering too. I understand some details maybe under the NDA but can you at least say if Fighters/Fighter Bombers will be able to apply damage to the structures or is it only dread and bellow. |
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D'Kmal
Variables Unlimited Void..
8
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Posted - 2015.09.17 16:47:14 -
[51] - Quote
If lore-wise, when our capsules are destroyed, our clone signals/brainscans/whatever can make it out of a wormhole to k-space, why can't our assets?
On a serious gameplay note, I think that the idea of assets not being entirely safe in WH space is a good added risk to what is higher-rewarding space (compared to Null, Low and HiSec), and totally agree with the decision for it to not just magically pony-express into a NPC station - that would've not beein in line with the Risk vs. Reward system in my opinion.
Also good to see something other than damn entosis links, this system looks really promising as long as the numbers are right - but I'm guessing mass-tests on SiSi or Duality will help fine-tune the numbers. |
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CCP Ytterbium
C C P C C P Alliance
4062
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Posted - 2015.09.17 16:47:34 -
[52] - Quote
Thomas Lear wrote:Cobat Marland wrote: Is it safe to assume they can be hit with fighterbombers along with guns? This I am wondering too. I understand some details maybe under the NDA but can you at least say if Fighters/Fighter Bombers will be able to apply damage to the structures or is it only dread and bellow. Edit: shitposter confirmed here broken quote
Ah sorry, the table on the blog wasn't clear enough. The table was just a rough representation of various ship class examples and how many of them you would need to bring to reach the damage mitigation.
There nothing preventing other capitals and supercapitals to do damage to such a structure, as long as it fits the damage mitigation limit. |
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Karbowiak
4M-CORP The-Culture
207
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Posted - 2015.09.17 16:48:22 -
[53] - Quote
Well **** me, this is actually the first thing in over a year that i've liked.
Now you just need to give us buildable Stargates and convert all of nullsec into W-Space (or give us ten times the space in W-Space). |
Nasro Drags
Zonk Squad CCLP
12
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Posted - 2015.09.17 16:53:03 -
[54] - Quote
Extend the damage mitigation feature to all ships and structures and you'll fix the F1 blob and thus make being in a large fleet far more exciting. |
Cristl
252
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Posted - 2015.09.17 16:53:16 -
[55] - Quote
Dreekus wrote:All seems good except one point : Sooo.. if you can't obliterate enemies from grid/system you will eventually loose? (not able to help repair citadel) Enemy shoot 1 hit every 29min 50sec.
Maybe you should add something like min damage required to reset repair timer and/or remote assist modules shorten that timer and/or remote assist modules rise min damage required?
Maybe roll that into the damage mitigation thing. Not only is there a max damage every 30s, but a min too? |
xttz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
677
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Posted - 2015.09.17 16:54:04 -
[56] - Quote
Some of the WIP artwork has multiple hangars... does that mean multiple undock points are happening? |
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CCP Phantom
C C P C C P Alliance
6067
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Posted - 2015.09.17 16:54:57 -
[57] - Quote
Lady Aesir wrote:WOW CCP are starting to show signs of life You should also watch tonight's o7 show at 20:00 UTC
CCP Phantom - Senior Community Developer - Volunteer Manager
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Bed Bugg
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
21
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Posted - 2015.09.17 16:56:30 -
[58] - Quote
Wow GÇô all great except the unbelievably sh*ty wormhole idiocy.
So another way to focus in like a laser on screwing over the little guys.
Way to go! You have now made 90% of the features for citadels worthless in WH space. Smart folks will just develop elaborate workarounds to this.
Welp, told you so.
Ffs unintended consequences.
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Cobat Marland
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
19
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Posted - 2015.09.17 17:00:10 -
[59] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote:There nothing preventing other capitals and supercapitals to do damage to such a structure, as long as it fits the damage mitigation limit. Thanks man, I just want a role for my 30b isk tryhard chariot.
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Barubary Evans
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
3
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Posted - 2015.09.17 17:00:59 -
[60] - Quote
Bed Bugg wrote:Wow GÇô all great except the unbelievably sh*ty wormhole idiocy.
...
Way to go! You have now made 90% of the features for citadels worthless in WH space.
You realize that Wormholers basically asked for the Wormhole exceptions, leaving WSpace a risky venture? There have been meetings and gatherings and townhalls and a fair amount of chat in no small number of boards, forums, and threads, and the overwhelming response has been pushing for such WH exceptions.
If you don't like them, where were you when they were being talked about? |
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