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ToxicFire Warlords Corp The Core Collective	Posted - 2006.12.17 14:27:00 - [1] Edited by: ToxicFire on 17/12/2006 14:30:06 Just reading through the indevelopment page and spotted this Originally by: Asteroid belts as hidden environments - Exploration Moving all static asteroid belts Exploration gameplay, a hidden environment model, where you explore to find the asteroid belts. This would also result in the asteroid belts moving into our Complex or (Dungeon) authoring system meaning more variety and danger can be authored into them. All ships would then have a native system scanner, worth crap (can't find ships or anything like that) and could find the basic veldspar belts almost anywhere, while better belts require better equipment - and of course to be in a region which actually has better ore quality (This is NOT an Arkanor in Empire feature). Incidentally, this could further mess with macro's too. All I can say is wtf, this could be the most detrimental feature to EVE, The market relies on a regular supply of minerals for an area coming in, mineral prices set production prices set module/ship prices set the value of isk in eve. If you go start fecking about with the system not guaranteeing that a certain mineral can be obtained from a certain location yes it may make the market more realistic but heck it will make it un-worth while to maintain a hold over a system for a long period of because theres going to be no garuntee that a system will be worth jack come next respawn time. In reality this will more likely cause smaller corps and alliances to move back into empire if the rewards for the risk aren't a certainty which is counter to everything thats been done in eve so far. True I may have a biased opinion because i've worked on eve ore map but that also gives me a slightly better understanding on how the layout of ore affects the universe. I appeal to others to voice their opinions and I appeal to CCP to re think this idea, keep the fixed belt system but add extra dynamic belts that are mixed in with the exploration content. Join the save Stargate SG1 Campaign Today! http://savestargatesg1.com/
Gonada Gallente Cross Roads	Posted - 2006.12.17 14:33:00 - [2] All I can say is wtf, this could be the most detrimental feature to EVE ------------------------ and i think quite the opposite. noobs can mine the basic stuffs, and they then have to learn more in order to find the better ores. whats wrong with that? dont like learning new things? sounds like a grand way to stop macrominers too. funny though, first thing that popped into my head was that lowsec people crying ohh noos! at the thought that they might have to indeed have to do some of the dirty work themselves -I don't necessarily agree with everything I say.- -nerf Missles-
Gone'Postal Minmatar LuthorCorp Combat Division	Posted - 2006.12.17 14:34:00 - [3] Eve in 2 years time Dock..... Docking port not found please scan Undock... Exit not found please scan F1... Ammo not found please scan Move forward.... Area not scanned!!! are you sure there could be a hidden fleet 1 inch from the bow captin ? The man without a face.... The company without a clue....
Hijpma	Posted - 2006.12.17 15:15:00 - [4] I can't wait for this feature
FFGR Maza Nostra Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.12.17 15:17:00 - [5] There wouldn't be a big problem with the belts moving on to this for mining people. The big problem would be for roaming gangs in 0.0 where the people would have to get in the system, scan down the enemy, warp in and pray that he is near the entrance and still in there, since with standings in local and no MWD in deadspace (assuming it will be deadspace) it will be very hard to catch somebody. _______ Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment
BurnHard	Posted - 2006.12.17 15:20:00 - [6] Edited by: BurnHard on 17/12/2006 15:20:50 imho this is a great idea in terms of making mining more interesting. imho this is a bad idea because it means you cannot "setup" for mining in the way you do now: (1) scout, (2) invest (move equipment, make marks/ss), (3) haul, (4) study your potential foes and learn their habits. This often requires longer-term planning and application, rather than "log-in, find hidden belt, go mine it" - just doesn't work that way atm. I expect this is one of the pre-requisites for the removal of local.
BurnHard	Posted - 2006.12.17 15:23:00 - [7] ....also consider the much reduced load on the database/server. You don't have to have all belts/roids/NPC's active in a system when the system loads (if such does happen now) - I expect if you run the numbers, you'll find waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more active entities in any given system than are actually being interacted with -
killerco Gallente Confederation of Red Moon Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.12.17 15:23:00 - [8] If this would go through it would destroy the market and increase prices for high minerals dramaticly Don't be a great man just be a man
Kate Darieux New Dawn Corp	Posted - 2006.12.17 15:24:00 - [9] Originally by: Gone'Postal Eve in 2 years time Dock..... Docking port not found please scan Undock... Exit not found please scan F1... Ammo not found please scan Move forward.... Area not scanned!!! are you sure there could be a hidden fleet 1 inch from the bow captin ? Originally by: JeanPierre You need to examine Minmatar ships bro. No kidding, I tried to Salvage one last night. Took me 20 cycles before the pilot convoed me and told me to stop it.

Deckard Bishop Forum Moderator Interstellar Services Department	Posted - 2006.12.17 15:25:00 - [10] Quote: Note, we have postponed and even canceled ideas that have reached this stage, so it is not a guarantee for an idea that it will reach Tranquility if you read it here. thats from the in development section, plus we have been talking about this on the forums since march. look over here forum rules \| mods@ccpgames.com \| Our Website!


maarud Einherjar Incorporated Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2006.12.17 15:41:00 - [11] Um, isn't this exploration? Maarud. Proudly a Ex-BYDI member
Piotr Anatolev Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2006.12.17 15:51:00 - [12] System wide ore belts - masses of rocks you have to prospect to find ones with veins of valuable ore in. No more 1 rock 1 ore solution - it's breaking the immersion - and the fun of discovery. You aint a miner as it is now, just a dull collector.
Malthros Zenobia Caldari Independent Navy Reserve	Posted - 2006.12.17 16:53:00 - [13] I'd like to know how you have to SCAN for a system wide asteroid belt. That's like Scanning for a planet. Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
Cmdr Sy Appetite 4 Destruction	Posted - 2006.12.17 17:15:00 - [14] Originally by: ToxicFire All I can say is wtf, this could be the most detrimental feature to EVE, The market relies on a regular supply of minerals for an area coming in, mineral prices set production prices set module/ship prices set the value of isk in eve. If you go start fecking about with the system not guaranteeing that a certain mineral can be obtained from a certain location... The market's oscillations are time-delayed and dampened. Even titanic alliance collisions are not felt on the market until a week or two after the event, as the community naturally maintains a small stockpile of goods and the sources of some (ie loot refines from L3/L4 missions) are traditionally not subject to changes in either political winds or game mechanics). You will find that even in the extreme case of a region-wide Isogen famine lasting several days, the curve will be smoothed so nicely, few people outside the mining industry will comment. Originally by: ToxicFire it will make it un-worth while to maintain a hold over a system for a long period of because theres going to be no garuntee that a system will be worth jack come next respawn time. You contradict yourself. On the contrary, it will reward people who exert long-term control over a system, as the belts will yield good minerals over time. There may be week-to-week fluctuations in the quality of what is discovered, but if you are there for months, the prospects of regularly finding good ore approaches certainty. This does punish people who casually roll up confidently expecting a predictable yield day after day. Coupled with a sliding scale of scanning expense and difficulty, it should do much to discourage wholesale belt-stripping by currency farmers. And depending on how it is balanced, it could even make low sec worthwhile. Originally by: ToxicFire In reality this will more likely cause smaller corps and alliances to move back into empire if the rewards for the risk aren't a certainty which is counter to everything thats been done in eve so far. The rewards will be a certainty over time. It will likely encourage a long-termist mindset among those who make that move, rather than "Ooh, 0.0, instant massive reward, wait, WTF IS HAPPENING TO MY SHIP?!"
Danton Marcellus Nebula Rasa Holdings	Posted - 2006.12.17 17:54:00 - [15] Sounds nice, can't wait for static features to be done away with. Ourselves Alone
Brolly Caldari The Department of Justice	Posted - 2006.12.17 17:58:00 - [16] A great and shody idea, both. We should see a reduction in macro miners, also CCP has a lot of leverage on what to do game wise. I'm a tad cynical after the last patch and the way eve is generally going, which is the 'luck' gameplay. I was hoping for a shed more when it came to exploration, before anyone starts ***ing about realism, challenge or easiness, that is not my point. At the moment 'luck' seems to be a major part of the game, or to put it another way, Eve is becomming the first lottery based game. Which sucks imho. Anything besides shooting and mining re*s in new skills, more isk, more time. Take salvaging, exploration, archeology, hacking, t2 and anything else which has been implemented in the last year. Most of the time I feel i'm actually waiting to play as apposed to really* being involved in the universe around me. 'don't do it then, move on' I hear echo in my mind. Usually I would, but I'm bored of shooting crap and mining too. I think I still like eve, but I feel as though i'm hanging on to a thread atm. Give it a month or 2 and I think i'll be one of those people who pay for a month, train a couple of skills, then take time off to train the lvl 5's, which is a damn shame. Wow, that was an impressive tangent . CCP have some great plans, but atm I feel as they have a long way to go in the way of refining the gameplay, adding exploration as a core aspect of eve will either kill it or herald a great new leap in gameplay. Just hope they make more strontium carthates (sp?) or we'll all be buggered If I had z1 for every intelligent comment posted in general discussion, I'd be hideously in debt
Ras Blumin 0utbreak	Posted - 2006.12.17 18:14:00 - [17] Originally by: FFGR There wouldn't be a big problem with the belts moving on to this for mining people. The big problem would be for roaming gangs in 0.0 where the people would have to get in the system, scan down the enemy, warp in and pray that he is near the entrance and still in there, since with standings in local and no MWD in deadspace (assuming it will be deadspace) it will be very hard to catch somebody. I didn't think about that That's gonna suck so damn hard.
sableye principle of motion R i s e	Posted - 2006.12.17 18:26:00 - [18] it actually lets more useless 0.0 be useful we scanned down an asteroid belt the other day and it had arkonor normally this is in one system in outer ring about 25 jumps from station this was 1 jump from station in a system that the best thing before was jaspet the roids were pretty small though and the spawns where quite tough at the belts and even had rouge drones. Join The Fight With Promo Today
Romeda Minmatar Trojan industries	Posted - 2006.12.17 19:04:00 - [19] I've seen that idea before and as a hardcore miner I do like the idea it will add a new element to mining getting it more involved than a grinding process, however any changes to the system of mining should be done very carefully and the system must be a positive and beneficial change. I've some other ideas about mining and how it should change and how this would affect other types of players like pirates and belt ratters.
Capt Rob Minmatar Constructive Influence	Posted - 2006.12.18 02:24:00 - [20] w00t another way for miners to get protected ( like they dont have enough) and seems like it would mess with prices and just make eve even worse Signature removed due to inappropriate content. -Ivan K

MissileRus	Posted - 2006.12.18 02:45:00 - [21] Edited by: MissileRus on 18/12/2006 02:50:16 Edited by: MissileRus on 18/12/2006 02:47:43 Edited by: MissileRus on 18/12/2006 02:46:49 Originally by: Malthros Zenobia I'd like to know how you have to SCAN for a system wide asteroid belt. That's like Scanning for a planet. well obviously you scan for certain minerals in the asteroid belt the asteroid belt will probably be visible, and perhaps warpable? since i remember talk about how they wanted to have system wide asteroid belts and how the new graphics engine could perhaps provide that. edit: this would be candy for both new pvp experience at belts instead of the warp to belt and end up right next you your enemy stuff like today, and candy for miners that likes mining because they get to both see a asteroid BELT through the system and they get to use scanners to find the minerals they need in the belt. its teh sexh tbh! edit2: how would it mess with prices? you scan and warp and mine, hows that mutch more difficult then today? region of better ore quality doesnt mean you wont get minerals where you used to, and if not time to move! lol --------------------------- 4. i like pizza
LUGAL MOP'N'GLO	Posted - 2006.12.18 04:27:00 - [22] Ya... Its going to ruin EVE. Step 1: Deep breaths and think for a second... Hire someone to scan systems down for you ...Oh noes, adaptation! ~~~~~~~~~ Caldari. It's so easy a Minmatar could do it.
Sevarus James Minmatar Meridian Dynamics Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2006.12.18 05:21:00 - [23] So in EVE, a scanner roughly translates to, um........a TELESCOPE? hmmmm? Hiding a "system wide" belt...where, in some vampire's bag of holding? In tomb's hat? -actually that last one might work. A system wide asteroid belt is about as hard to find as a florist on mother's day even in our pre instellar present day. In the rush to do 'dungeons' please CCP, don't forget what supposed environment we live in. I believe its called space. Unless of course EVE is leaving the last vestiges of a 'sci-fi' genre' and becoming something else. Updated Linux Desktop+EVE+EVE-TV
Hotice	Posted - 2006.12.18 06:04:00 - [24] hmm.. Do we need to farm key to enter the complex? Will there be npc ships guard the belts or the entrance area? I think we need Monk class ship so we can FD pull the npc ships so we can kill them. We also need Tank class ship with taunt ability to keep aggro so mining ships can go mine. A few cleric type ships to heal the damaged ships. Oh, and a few Enchanter ships with Mez and AoE stun modules to do the crowd control. Sounds fun! =)
Sakura Nihil Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction	Posted - 2006.12.18 06:21:00 - [25] Look, exploration is great, but it takes a while - that, and its not in the spirit of EVE to make training for a "career" mandatory in order to play the game the way you want to, i.e. mine or belt pirate. Vote no on this proposition.
Merin Ryskin Peregrine Industries	Posted - 2006.12.18 07:00:00 - [26] Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 18/12/2006 07:01:07 No, absolutely not, for three reasons: 1) It makes no sense... we're not talking about tiny ships here, an asteroid belt is a very large object. Like someone said, it's the equivalent of having to scan for the planet taking up half of your screen before you can warp to it. 2) It provides yet another safe haven for people to avoid combat. I just love the thought of having my war targets hide in asteroid belts where I need a covert ops frigate and half a day of scanning to find them. And the EVE universe gets a lot smaller, as the only place you'll see another player is on group operations with your corp. 3) The miners would hate the loss of profit from having to spend lots of time searching for their resources. Or, if the scanning is easy enough to be quick, it's just a frustrating first step to deal with. You'll get it 100% right away, but you have to waste time making the effort to find your inevitable asteroid. So it's really a poor idea. Nobody actually benefits from it, and a lot of people are going to be angry about it.
Wendat Huron Lupus Industries	Posted - 2006.12.18 07:07:00 - [27] Originally by: Merin Ryskin Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 18/12/2006 07:01:07 ...So it's really a poor idea. Nobody actually benefits from it, and a lot of people are going to be angry about it. So is getting up in the morning.
Fedacorr	Posted - 2006.12.18 07:53:00 - [28] Well, if the 'problem' is 'too many active objects in a system', then the solution is to limit anchoring objects. Say, 'you may anchor 1 can per level in Anchoring Skill, max thus = 5'. Now, no more belts with as many cans as asteroids. Why do people use cans? To prevent ore thieving. Just eliminate ore thieving from jetcans instead, problem (in Empire Space) solved. Make Jetcans open ONLY to their owner (no password, assume it's hardcoded), anyone else taking anything from one generates a 'Thief! Kill!' message to Concord. Along with making said thief attackable as now, that is. Actually, you could still 'steal' jetcans, I guess, by using a frieghter that could pick them up whole... but I kind of doubt many would find it profitable when they had to spend the cash for one of those big frieghters, for Empire Space ores.
Nanobotter Mk2	Posted - 2006.12.18 08:06:00 - [29] I have to say this would ROCK! this is how it should have always been. I mean atleast some of the belts should not be automically bookmarked for everyone. You should have to locate your own belt to mine. Might also help witht he macor miners. Anyrate do not see this as much of an issue as long as they are easy to scan and you don't have to compromise your set up to do so.
Oleg K77	Posted - 2006.12.18 08:10:00 - [30] Originally by: Merin Ryskin Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 18/12/2006 07:01:07 No, absolutely not, for three reasons: 1) It makes no sense... we're not talking about tiny ships here, an asteroid belt is a very large object. Like someone said, it's the equivalent of having to scan for the planet taking up half of your screen before you can warp to it. 2) It provides yet another safe haven for people to avoid combat. I just love the thought of having my war targets hide in asteroid belts where I need a covert ops frigate and half a day of scanning to find them. And the EVE universe gets a lot smaller, as the only place you'll see another player is on group operations with your corp. 3) The miners would hate the loss of profit from having to spend lots of time searching for their resources. Or, if the scanning is easy enough to be quick, it's just a frustrating first step to deal with. You'll get it 100% right away, but you have to waste time making the effort to find your inevitable asteroid. So it's really a poor idea. Nobody actually benefits from it, and a lot of people are going to be angry about it. Yes, absolutely yes 1. It make perfect sense. Even if you clearly see object it dont means you know it exact coordinates you need to warp. And "real" asteroids are not static 2. It make mining safer, very good. Miners are sitting ducks right now. For same reasons i dream ships in belts and clouds do not apears in overview until scanned or comes to close range Never happens though. 3. More interesting mining, less macros i hope. May be more valuable asteroids in hisec because of it. I hope it would not very easy. So i say it very good idea, hope it will implemented soon.



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