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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Flinx Evenstar
Momentum.
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Posted - 2006.12.07 04:36:00 -
[601]
Edited by: Flinx Evenstar on 07/12/2006 04:36:44
Originally by: Tribunal It is a sad showing of some how people act when they can hide behind a "mask" and never have to worry about consequences. I knew I was spot on with laughing when my philosophy teacher claimed that people are intrinsically good.
Maybe you can ask your teacher this one, but I think what is really sad, is people taking a game FAR too seriously
http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-4061498523327993113&q=eve+online There is very strong language in that team speak recording...but if you've ever been griefed...I doubt you were ever as angry as that guy
Isnt this an RPG...dont we all wear masks?
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HankMurphy
Pelennor Swarm Eternal Rangers of Terror
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Posted - 2006.12.07 04:46:00 -
[602]
Originally by: Tribunal It is a sad showing of some how people act when they can hide behind a "mask" and never have to worry about consequences. I knew I was spot on with laughing when my philosophy teacher claimed that people are intrinsically good.
there is something about the term 'philosophy teacher' that i find hilarious (i took a philosophy class in college and almost failed cause i didn't agree w/ the fruitcake instructor.)
ppl are not intrinsically good. its simply a matter of environment and your bodies chemical balances. given the right situation and state of mind any man can achieve the best and/or worst of our potentials
Originally by: Wrayeth
I feel so dirty - I just defended highsec carebears. -shudder-
tell me about it!
i need to go shower and wash my hands x25
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Tsanse Kinske
WeMeanYouKnowHarm
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Posted - 2006.12.07 04:52:00 -
[603]
Originally by: Yan Song
Just to solidify Hank's statements regarding what hi-sec should be, here are direct quotes from Eve's FAQ (go look it up):
<quotes from FAQ>
This is from their own FAQ about the game. If this is not an accurate representation, (i.e. nowhere is safe, everyone should be able to do anything they want, regardless of what it does to others, PvP or quit, etc) then say so, change the FAQ, make everywhere 0.0, remove Concorde or any other sembalance of law and be done with it. At least then, people will know what they are paying for.
It's accurate. You're just interpeting it wrong. (Though they should change that first line from "...will be safe" to "...will be somewhat safe.") It is funny though, a lot of people look at those quotes and see "safe vs. unsafe space" or "PvE Zones" or something. Whereas what I see is "opportunity". Meaning that while I've got the opportunity to pursue any path I want in this game, other people have the opportunity to stand in my way.
It reminds me of the line in the U.S. Declaration of Independence in a way, the one that says in paraphrase "All people have the right to life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness." Even a child knows it's not guaranteeing happiness.
And of course, you're ignoring everything the FAQ, the game, and the forums that tells you explicitly that EVE is dangerous everywhere.
So think of EVE as being the pursuit of safety--if that's one of your goals--and I think you'll have a good handle on the game. Then the question goes from being "Why are people allowed to hurt me, even in HighSec?" to "What am I going to do about it?"
Personally, I think that's a much more interesting game.
* * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
-Douglas Adams, writing about EVE |
Daggiz
Minmatar Cronus Hunters Incorporated
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Posted - 2006.12.07 05:19:00 -
[604]
Edited by: Daggiz on 07/12/2006 05:22:55 Been watching this one grow...and decided to offer my two cents for what it's worth.
Considering that this just happened to me where I was warped in on (luckily for me I did complete the mission - it was just a kill one and I was made the mistake of blowing up the stations there looking for more stuff) in albeit, low sec, so I was not caught totally unawares that this would happen. It was admittedly frustrating as in order to get to the goal I needed to get through a gate, but they were able to just warp in on top of me. It's part of the game when I am in low sec and I accept the risk. I know that there is a chance that I am going to get ganked - in fact it's happened many times (30+ ships lost to I think 2 ships killed - I suck at that part).
It did get me thinking about those that start off in the game though and how this would be increasingly frustrating if I am in a frig and some one warps in a Command Ship. If that was the pattern I am quite sure that, that person would take their money else where. That's their choice. But it does impact everything else as well.
With out those people adding in their subscription fees we all loose out on more devs and more content being added in, fan fests, and all these other things. So if that player base does indeed get driven off, well, we are worse off for it. Added to that is this notion that because this is a multiplayer game that I need to play with you. To me the ability to play a game with friends, online is a multi player online game. There is nothing that says that I need to interact with you if I choose not too. I did not see that in the EULA or any agreement when I signed up. Now personally, I know the risks that I take and I know that there is a good chance that because I play in low sec that I am going to run into that. The thing is, that is my choice. When the choice is being made for you, it's no longer an option. Even though the FAQ and everyone here say there are so many things that you can do and that there are choices. When play is forced on you, it's no longer an option or a choice.
There is another aspect here that is over looked - because they may be a minority here - but the roleplayers I am sure who play along the story lines, which are supplied by CCP, get screwed because the missions that they play along with and role play in are invaded by unwanted people forcing them to play in a particular style. I enjoy missioning and playing along with the story lines. Granted, its a small piece, but it is a piece.
The way that I am understanding those that want the status quo - CCP's best bet is to kill the background stories, get rid of agents, get rid of missions, get rid of storyline and divided races, throw all of that out if the primary function of the game is to kill all other players. If that is the case, then why waste the money with the creative side of the game?
Again, just my two cents. For whatever its worth. |
eveplayer11
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Posted - 2006.12.07 05:24:00 -
[605]
Originally by: Flinx Evenstar
Originally by: eveplayer11 .. enjoy the fun while it lasts, i doubt it will last very long before the game will start to crumble..
I will thanks
And when it changes..I'll adapt to that too, so get ready to whine about the NEXT issue that will "crumble" the game
you obviously have no idea how serious this is? wait a couple of months, if this is still possible the game will have changed alot... since everyone will be doing it the game will crumble..
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Flinx Evenstar
Momentum.
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Posted - 2006.12.07 05:28:00 -
[606]
Originally by: Daggiz It was admittedly frustrating as in order to get to the goal I needed to get through a gate, but they were able to just warp in on top of me. It's part of the game when I am in low sec and I accept the risk.
To warp in on you like that, you need a skilled covert. That is who we warp to..not you. It requires a fair amount of coordination as the covert ship is vulnerable to attack if it uncloaks and scrams you.
Its good teamwork, sorry you were caught...but we have all lost ships
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Daggiz
Minmatar Cronus Hunters Incorporated
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Posted - 2006.12.07 05:36:00 -
[607]
Originally by: Flinx Evenstar
Originally by: Daggiz It was admittedly frustrating as in order to get to the goal I needed to get through a gate, but they were able to just warp in on top of me. It's part of the game when I am in low sec and I accept the risk.
To warp in on you like that, you need a skilled covert. That is who we warp to..not you. It requires a fair amount of coordination as the covert ship is vulnerable to attack if it uncloaks and scrams you.
Its good teamwork, sorry you were caught...but we have all lost ships
Heh, see as I said, I suck at that part. Not too worried about getting caught tbh, it was my own fault and I really have no one to blame but myself as I got greedy. And I was in low sec, so I understand that. It's when it happens in high sec and you really don't have any recourse to do anything about it that I see as an issue. Than I think it becomes more like...well I won't mention the game, but there is reason I started to play EVE. I have somewhat control over what I choose to do and what I don't. It's when that choice gets taken away and forced that is the problem.
Figures that after completing the mission they offered me another one to the same system...I think the agents just want to see me fail! |
Miss Overlord
Gallente Ferrum Pugnus New Eve Order
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Posted - 2006.12.07 05:45:00 -
[608]
high sec u have actions ( warp out let the mission runner get full aggro) if they loot from u shoot back ( u should be running missions co operative in player corps anyway) so i dont see what hte hassle is
These posts represent my personal views and not those of my corp or alliance. These do not reflect offical alliance or corp views
This is a disclaimer |
eveplayer11
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Posted - 2006.12.07 05:54:00 -
[609]
Originally by: Miss Overlord high sec u have actions ( warp out let the mission runner get full aggro) if they loot from u shoot back ( u should be running missions co operative in player corps anyway) so i dont see what hte hassle is
point is its high-sec, second point is CCP werent aware it would be used this way, 3rd point is anyone can loose everything they have from griefers that risk nothing, obviosly not how game mechanics were supposed to be used and CCP are doubtfull, they dont know what to do and tells you to petition a GM and they will deside if its an exploit or not. point is i dont like it and i worry how the game will be if anyone can grief anyone without any risk at all. just watch that newb loose everything he worked for because you aggroed a mission and gets him killed, then you loot his stuff, then you loot the wrecks and you risked nothing.
as said, i think its realy sad people dont see how serious it is..
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Flinx Evenstar
Momentum.
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Posted - 2006.12.07 06:02:00 -
[610]
Originally by: eveplayer11 point is its high-sec, second point is CCP werent aware it would be used this way, 3rd point is anyone can loose everything they have from griefers that risk nothing, obviosly not how game mechanics were supposed to be used and CCP are doubtfull, they dont know what to do and tells you to petition a GM and they will deside if its an exploit or not. point is i dont like it and i worry how the game will be if anyone can grief anyone without any risk at all. just watch that newb loose everything he worked for because you aggroed a mission and gets him killed, then you loot his stuff, then you loot the wrecks and you risked nothing.
as said, i think its realy sad people dont see how serious it is..
Relax its a game lady x
But I will concede that doing it in high sec is a bit wrong...well a bit naughty.
In low sec there are risks...for the mission runner and the nasty piwats. You do realise that pirates will kill anyone...including other pirates
I got ganked today by a NYX...yes a freakin mothership Now that is what I call overkill. I didnt complain, it was one funny experience...an MS apearing next to you I'll be laughing about that for a while.
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Shameless Avenger
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Posted - 2006.12.07 06:06:00 -
[611]
On second, I think there's an oportunity here... But first: how are the scanners finding the mission runners? Scanning for wrecs? cuz... ehm.... I'm tempted to replace my carebearing high sec small research pos with a big full size death-star and scatter a couple of wrecks arround... |
Ishmael Hansen
No Quarter.
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Posted - 2006.12.07 06:09:00 -
[612]
Griefers are just wannabe pirates, without the ******* to face the wild 0.0 where their oponents could actually fight back, they are the big bully in high school who picks on the smaller kids and steal their lunch money.
Back in my first eve corp in 2004 we were a semi industrial/carebear corp and we did got war decced by pirates a couple of times, just for the griefing, one of those corps asked us like 50m for stop the war, after we kicked their buts they ended up giving us a couple +3 implants and 20m isk, and same happened to every war dec, seing pirates logging of, etc. They just there for the easy kills, no more, when you give a fight they run with their tail between their legs (there's a reason they not in 0.0 you know)
Unfortunatelly with this game mechanics they can grief away with 0% risk and get the reward, not much balance there.
We need ccp to pull a move like they did in Tama with mOo back in the day.
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Flinx Evenstar
Momentum.
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Posted - 2006.12.07 06:10:00 -
[613]
Originally by: Shameless Avenger On second, I think there's an oportunity here... But first: how are the scanners finding the mission runners? Scanning for wrecs? cuz... ehm.... I'm tempted to replace my carebearing high sec small research pos with a big full size death-star and scatter a couple of wrecks arround...
They scan for the ship ( NEw scan probes scans for all ships, not a specific type like before)
Then...you warp a covert to it. The covert tells you what the guy is doing, type of drones, type of mission rats etc.
Then...well..you kill him
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haniblecter
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Posted - 2006.12.07 06:12:00 -
[614]
Originally by: Trollin in the past 3 hours I have had griefers drop in on me 5 times, sometimes they kill the boss at the end of the mission while I am fighting the trash, sometimes they aggro the whole area and then warp out...
its way out of hand, I don' have time to deal with this on a regular basis, I play for fun, not to be griefed out of missions.
not to mention the janitors that you call salvagers, come in on me in my Kestrel with 8+ rats aggroed on me, they come in with a drake and start scooping my loot and salvaging the wrecks.
wtf am I supposed to do? shoot at them and get blown to bits?
its getting to the point where player courier missions are starting to look good... and thats really sad.
00 4tw
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Plutoinum
German Cyberdome Corp Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2006.12.07 06:23:00 -
[615]
Edited by: Plutoinum on 07/12/2006 06:24:36 Edited by: Plutoinum on 07/12/2006 06:23:22
Originally by: eveplayer11
exploits: training mobs to kill other players is a classic exploit
You've played too much anarchy online. I see that it's a problem in high sec in missions, because you can't do anything about it. But in a pvp environment where you can fight it's definately not an exploit. It's tactics.
I remember that I once had to ran from mobs in anarchy online and had a train of mobs behind me and people cried and wanted to petition and that with the low death penalty there. I just wanted to safe my ass ffs ! Don't know if I told them they should go and whine at their mummy, you have to be cautious in some games about what you say.
Like I said, if they can't defend it's bad, but in a pvp environment it's valid, like if enemies are doing a complex in 0.0 and I jump in and aggro everything. Tactics. I'd do such things anytime.
CTD/con-loss vs. log-out. A proposal for a fix. |
eveplayer11
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Posted - 2006.12.07 06:30:00 -
[616]
Edited by: eveplayer11 on 07/12/2006 06:34:22
Originally by: Flinx Evenstar
Relax its a game lady x
But I will concede that doing it in high sec is a bit wrong...well a bit naughty.
In low sec there are risks...for the mission runner and the nasty piwats. You do realise that pirates will kill anyone...including other pirates
I got ganked today by a NYX...yes a freakin mothership Now that is what I call overkill. I didnt complain, it was one funny experience...an MS apearing next to you I'll be laughing about that for a while.
i wouldnt care **** if it was in .0 or low-sec...
why would CCP fix stuff like this from patch notes:
Quote: Some VERY diligent griefers were able to exercise considerable effort with no gain to spoil the new player experience for new players. This has been resolved.
heh ruin the game for new players indeed.. get them blown up, you dont even need an alt and you wont risk getting banned since its not exploiting or anything apparently. just grief on and make players quit. CCP should have clearer rules for what is and what is not an exploit, yea i know is different then other games and exploits seems to be accepted.. but when people gets a chance to ruin everything for other players risk free they have to use common sence, like you said its naughty.. and naughty stuff like this should be flagged exploiting by CCP imo, like the drone incident.. you killed people kida risk free then and people got banned for it, shouldnt that apply now? i mean theres practicly no difference, use uber damage drones or be immune and let players die from NPCs, or flag the rats, loot a can, get the player to shoot you, warp out and back in and warp scramble him and watch the rats kill him.. worse kind of griefing that exists and the player cant fight back. smells exploit of game mechanics to me but apparently its not..
oh and nice err.. gong away from the topic there lol.. dont care if you got killed by a nyx tbh..
edit: @ Plutoinum, oh yes i agree, i think this suits .0 and low-sec, players should be able to do this kind of stuff i love pvp but CCP kinda messed up on this thing.. for high-sec that is.. and training mobs is fun! but nono for high-sec.. gonna stop bi**hing now..
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Plutoinum
German Cyberdome Corp Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2006.12.07 06:38:00 -
[617]
Edited by: Plutoinum on 07/12/2006 06:47:56
Griefing in low sec and 0.0 doesn't exist by (my) definition, because it's a pvp-how-you-like area. In low sec with sec hit and sentries in 0.0 without, that's the only difference. In high sec griefing exists, like if you do something bad to a player and he can't do anything against it, because of Concord. edit: Can't even war dec the offender, because he is in a newbie corp. Then I'd agree that it's an exploit.
CTD/con-loss vs. log-out. A proposal for a fix. |
Fink Angel
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.12.07 07:13:00 -
[618]
Originally by: HankMurphy i'm not a carebear. i dont even like hi sec, i just go shopping there. but the way i see it is crystal fracking clear.
grief play in high sec is gghheeyy! it just is. you wanna make ppl frustrated to fill some vacant hole in your personality, head to low sec and do it.
When i want a good fight i go to the bar (0.0) and i pick a fight, i dont go to the elementary school playground and start knocking out 6 year olds
Hank, I take my hat off to you. Very well put mate.
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Ishan Shade
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Posted - 2006.12.07 07:33:00 -
[619]
You know threads like these make me want to go and grief in high-sec too. Someone asked why people "hate" carebears, well it's because of threads like these.
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Uuve Savisaalo
Umbra Congregatio
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Posted - 2006.12.07 07:58:00 -
[620]
Edited by: Uuve Savisaalo on 07/12/2006 07:59:22
Originally by: eveplayer11
finding ways to grief players that should normally not be possible or other ways of using game mechanics as they werent officially supposed to be used is exploiting theres tons of normal classic exploits that can be compared to this and this can be declared as exploiting game mechanics according to eves own TOS.
you obviously weren't around when my corp robbed 60 billion worth of blueprints from some hapless spastics? Or the time that Callie fellow robbed 500-700 billion from EIB?
This game is someplace you survive by your own ingenuity, not cries of foul play and 'OMG WERE ALL GONNA QUIT IF CCP PREVENTS US FROM HAVING PERSONALISED INSTANCES' on the forum.
shh, newbcake.
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DiXXaR
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Posted - 2006.12.07 08:03:00 -
[621]
Originally by: Ishan Shade You know threads like these make me want to go and grief in high-sec too. Someone asked why people "hate" carebears, well it's because of threads like these.
And why people "hate" griefers roXXor. the game could not run without carebear but it could without griefers. anyways all you guys have to stop playing and have a social and real life cause its obvious most of griefers just dont have any power,so they try to get some in a game, hidden behing the screen. all you can say is "carebear carebear". because of your very low intelligence. People that keep crying about carebear should play WOW.
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Valan
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Posted - 2006.12.07 08:11:00 -
[622]
Edited by: Valan on 07/12/2006 08:11:08
Originally by: Uuve Savisaalo Edited by: Uuve Savisaalo on 07/12/2006 07:59:22
Originally by: eveplayer11
finding ways to grief players that should normally not be possible or other ways of using game mechanics as they werent officially supposed to be used is exploiting theres tons of normal classic exploits that can be compared to this and this can be declared as exploiting game mechanics according to eves own TOS.
you obviously weren't around when my corp robbed 60 billion worth of blueprints from some hapless spastics? Or the time that Callie fellow robbed 500-700 billion from EIB?
This game is someplace you survive by your own ingenuity, not cries of foul play and 'OMG WERE ALL GONNA QUIT IF CCP PREVENTS US FROM HAVING PERSONALISED INSTANCES' on the forum.
shh, newbcake.
Doesn't matter what you say I ignored you from this point.
hapless spastics?
Your inability to communicate without being offensive basically means you're not worth listening to. If you can communicate properly in public you should've your internet connection removed. Forget the freedom of speech arguement your living prove it doesn't work and shouldn't be allowed. Worthy of a forum ban but I'm not mod.
/start sig I love old characters that post 'I've beeen playing the game three years' when I know their account has been sold on. /end sig |
Ishan Shade
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Posted - 2006.12.07 08:15:00 -
[623]
Originally by: DiXXaR
Originally by: Ishan Shade You know threads like these make me want to go and grief in high-sec too. Someone asked why people "hate" carebears, well it's because of threads like these.
And why people "hate" griefers roXXor. the game could not run without carebear but it could without griefers. anyways all you guys have to stop playing and have a social and real life cause its obvious most of griefers just dont have any power,so they try to get some in a game, hidden behing the screen. all you can say is "carebear carebear". because of your very low intelligence. People that keep crying about carebear should play WOW.
Lol, talking about low intelligence, ever look in the mirror? You people think eve revolves around you, you're so wrong it's laughable. Saying that "griefers" have some deficiency or no social life, is just plane ignorant. I can say the same thing about you but I would have nothing to base that on now do I? Just FYI most pirates/griefers I know have jobs, a full social life and girlfriends or wifes. (including me) Can you say the same thing? Insulting whole groups of people will not really make you right, it will just **** them off. I know allot of people start "griefing" because of attitudes just like yours. So all in all you have yourself to thank for it.
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Sinder Ohm
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Posted - 2006.12.07 08:19:00 -
[624]
Edited by: Sinder Ohm on 07/12/2006 08:21:26 Edited by: Sinder Ohm on 07/12/2006 08:20:02 Well this has become avery long thread now, granted the agent gives you and you alone the mission, but instancing the deaspace pocket imo is a definate NONO this isnt wow and wont ever be.
I do however have a possable solution for this ... deadspace pockets should still be scannable but since the intruder didnt receive this mission from the agent he should be locked out and with the hacking skill he can break into the mission and spoil the poor mission runners day.
This way any mission runner that looks on his scanner will see the intruder coming and it prevents every Tom, Jim and Harry from greifing Mission runners at will, BUT it is still possble to grief them if you realy do want to.
Opinions and thaughts on this idea are welcome
/me puts on a flame proof suite |
Paladineguru
Gallente DAB RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2006.12.07 08:29:00 -
[625]
waaaah waaaah waaaaah
BURN YOU ******* CAREBEARS BURN
two words
WAR DEC
oh wait ur too lazy to go into a player corp
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Mercenar
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Posted - 2006.12.07 08:34:00 -
[626]
Originally by: Paladineguru two words
WAR DEC
Two words
Won't work
Doesn't matter if you're in a player corp or not, this won't help you. But then if you'd read this thread and had even the most basic understanding of the issue, you'd realise this.
Just to clarify before any other idiot suggests it.
War dec = not a solution.
Now lets move on.
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Sendraks
TOHA Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2006.12.07 08:35:00 -
[627]
blast, posted with wrong character.
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Uuve Savisaalo
Umbra Congregatio
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Posted - 2006.12.07 08:40:00 -
[628]
Originally by: Mercenar
Two words
Won't work
Now lets move on.
Hmm. From what I understand, only people in non-deadspace missions are landed on top of, and those in deadspace end up with the probe leading to the acceleration gate. All cans from destroyed ships are tagged as yours, therefore any invader attempting to loot from them is open to being shot at. If he engages you, you have kill rights on him (assuming you die, and its low sec..) in high sec you're always free to move to a less populated system - after all, there are decidedly fewer capable scanprobe users than there are mission-runners.
Its simply something recently made popular that had always been possible under the old scan-probing system just as well. I've done it for years as part of finding mission-spots of people I was at war with/contracted to bring down. Given how little profit there is in invading other's missions besides ****s and giggles, people will move on and it'll stop being quite as common as it is presently - it may also precipitate some to change systems, and perhaps some to try different means of earning their monies.
Maybe some of those who are threatening to quit if CCP doesn't create true instances will actually follow through, in which case they will not be missed.
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Shameless Avenger
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Posted - 2006.12.07 08:44:00 -
[629]
Originally by: Mercenar
Originally by: Paladineguru two words
WAR DEC
Two words
Won't work
Doesn't matter if you're in a player corp or not, this won't help you. But then if you'd read this thread and had even the most basic understanding of the issue, you'd realise this.
Just to clarify before any other idiot suggests it.
War dec = not a solution.
Now lets move on.
/signed
Wardecing the intruder IS NOT a solution. I can do it, my corp can sure do it. But then griefers will avoid targets than can deffend themselves and will go against the newbie doing the lvl 2. Newbies have no experience or resources to survive a war, let alone to initiate one.
CCP, at least give me the right to shoot whoever enters my mission, or those of my corpies! |
Siigari Kitawa
Gallente HelpCorp United Eden's Fire
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Posted - 2006.12.07 08:45:00 -
[630]
Edited by: Siigari Kitawa on 07/12/2006 08:48:07 Holy crap welcome to page 23 o.O
tl;dr, griefing sucks.
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