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Kismeteer
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
27
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Posted - 2011.12.08 14:36:00 -
[1] - Quote
It would be really nice to know when ENERGON CUBES are going live.
So, where's my fuel block switch date, Lebowski? Your rug is looking a little dry there. |
Kismeteer
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
27
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Posted - 2011.12.08 14:41:00 -
[2] - Quote
Just for reference:
http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=3029
Quote:The way we're going to roll this out is that the blocks, their blueprints and the changes to tower capacities will be introduced in the main patch. The changes to fuel consumption on the towers will be rolled out a couple of weeks later. The starbase system doesn't allow for multiple simultaneous fuel types, so we have to switch from one to the other during downtime.
http://www.eveonline.com/pressreleases/default.asp?pressReleaseID=74
Crucible goes live Nov 30th.
'couple of weeks' = December 14th
Anyone who runs a pos really needs this date to make sure demands are met. |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
183
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Posted - 2011.12.08 18:19:00 -
[3] - Quote
I just filled the POSes half-and-half. That's about 16 days of both. |
Invictra Atreides
Toward the Terra
15
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Posted - 2011.12.08 20:20:00 -
[4] - Quote
I'll just put in a petition. That will fix the problems. :D |
Taedrin
Kushan Industrial
162
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Posted - 2011.12.08 20:26:00 -
[5] - Quote
I, too, would also like to know this information. Of course, perhaps we should be asking in General Discussion, where we will have maximum visibility. CCP doesn't post often in here. |
Kismeteer
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
31
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Posted - 2011.12.08 20:30:00 -
[6] - Quote
Taedrin wrote:I, too, would also like to know this information. Of course, perhaps we should be asking in General Discussion, where we will have maximum visibility. CCP doesn't post often in here.
Yeah I figured I'd post it here, where it belongs. I am hoping that CCP realizes that one day notification of patches is not sufficient to change the fuel levels on several hundred towers. |
Lili Lu
50
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Posted - 2011.12.08 22:58:00 -
[7] - Quote
I would be highly surprised if this switchover is not very visibly advertised for at least a week beforehand. I do not think CCP wants to deal with well over 9000 petitions when people logoff whatever night and find their shiny pos either dead and gone or offline the next day at logon.
This leads me to believe that even though they said the switch would occur two weeks later, we may not see it for even a couple more weeks, or after the holidays.
But of course I could be wrong and they want all those petitions |
Brock Nelson
77
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Posted - 2011.12.09 02:07:00 -
[8] - Quote
respect the rug bro |
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association
32
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Posted - 2011.12.09 02:18:00 -
[9] - Quote
Kismeteer wrote:Anyone who runs a pos really needs this date to make sure demands are met.
It's a sign of the apocalypse. I just agreed with a goon.
Mitt-head will undoubtedly find it highly amusing, now that I've sundered the 2nd seal.
Non Nobis Domine Non Nobis Sed Nomine Tua Da Na Glorium |
Tekota
The Freighter Factory
63
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Posted - 2011.12.09 05:43:00 -
[10] - Quote
Brock Nelson wrote:respect the rug bro
It really ties the room together |
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Alisarina
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
39
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Posted - 2011.12.09 06:36:00 -
[11] - Quote
Tekota wrote:Brock Nelson wrote:respect the rug bro It really ties the room together
Just don't look under it...it;s where the bodies are kept. |
Kismeteer
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
32
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Posted - 2011.12.09 14:39:00 -
[12] - Quote
Alisarina wrote:Tekota wrote: It really ties the room together
Just don't look under it...it;s where the bodies are kept.
Please go watch The Big Lebowski right now. We'll wait.
Also, CCP, any word on a date? Is it next week as the devblog implies or is it the week afterwards? |
Jarnis McPieksu
Aliastra Gallente Federation
81
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Posted - 2011.12.09 14:56:00 -
[13] - Quote
They just posted it.
January 24th.
Time to stock up for another 6 weeks of old style fuel and no hurry with the blocks.
Edit: Here... https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=492083#post49208 |
Kismeteer
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
32
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Posted - 2011.12.09 15:05:00 -
[14] - Quote
Jarnis McPieksu wrote:January 24th.
Time to stock up for another 6 weeks of old style fuel and no hurry with the blocks.
'no hurry'. We already had like over 50% of our POS's in a half and half configuration, now to maintain that or back it out.
Would have been nice of them to tell us in here instead of general but oh well. |
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University Ivy League
450
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 15:12:00 -
[15] - Quote
Kismeteer wrote:
'no hurry'. We already had like over 50% of our POS's in a half and half configuration, now to maintain that or back it out.
I'd go with "maintain" - the towers all got larger fuel bays, so you can just fill up the new excess space with fuel blocks in anticipation of the Jan 24th change. Then continue to fuel as normal until then. |
Kismeteer
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
33
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Posted - 2011.12.09 15:22:00 -
[16] - Quote
Scrapyard Bob wrote:I'd go with "maintain" - the towers all got larger fuel bays, so you can just fill up the new excess space with fuel blocks in anticipation of the Jan 24th change. Then continue to fuel as normal until then.
Except that a non-sov pos can only hold 6 days energon cubes. Which might not be enough time if CCP has a crashy server and I have to visit several hundred pos's in that time frame.
Hey, I like the longer time. I just hate the timeframe in which they told us. |
Jarnis McPieksu
Aliastra Gallente Federation
84
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Posted - 2011.12.09 15:40:00 -
[17] - Quote
Kismeteer wrote:Scrapyard Bob wrote:I'd go with "maintain" - the towers all got larger fuel bays, so you can just fill up the new excess space with fuel blocks in anticipation of the Jan 24th change. Then continue to fuel as normal until then. Except that a non-sov pos can only hold 6 days energon cubes. Which might not be enough time if CCP has a crashy server and I have to visit several hundred pos's in that time frame. Hey, I like the longer time. I just hate the timeframe in which they told us.
What are you babbling about?
Non-sov POS can hold more fuel than non-sov POS could before Crucible hit. Almost a month, if I'm not mistaken.
Large POS, 40 blocks per hour, 960 blocks per day. 5m3 per block. 4800m3 per day. Capacity of large tower is 140 000m3, so slightly over 29 days of fuel.
You can hold 15 days of old fuel and 15 days of cubes starting, say, Jan 11th or thereabouts and you should be just fine. |
Kismeteer
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
34
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Posted - 2011.12.09 16:01:00 -
[18] - Quote
Jarnis McPieksu wrote:[quote=Kismeteer][quote=Scrapyard Bob]You can hold 15 days of old fuel and 15 days of cubes starting, say, Jan 11th or thereabouts and you should be just fine.
Using the old fuel size, it is 21 days with any heavy PG/CPU usage. And the 6 days is assuming you're using the 30k bonus they gave us on large pos's. So, I can do 21 days old plus 6 days new, and then have to refill twice between now and the patch roll over, plus assume the server is usable within a week of the patch. Or they could have been swapped before then, and I'm on a 29 cycle total.
Just double the fueling, NBD. And a lot of math for a patch to help people who don't know how to do math. |
Lili Lu
50
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Posted - 2011.12.09 19:04:00 -
[19] - Quote
Lili Lu wrote:I would be highly surprised if this switchover is not very visibly advertised for at least a week beforehand. I do not think CCP wants to deal with well over 9000 petitions when people logoff whatever night and find their shiny pos either dead and gone or offline the next day at logon. This leads me to believe that even though they said the switch would occur two weeks later, we may not see it for even a couple more weeks, or after the holidays. But of course I could be wrong and they want all those petitions Called it Well, except for grossly underestimating the lead time
Jan 24th? A bit long of a wait. But, wow look at all the people complaining in the feedback thread that they had already converted most their fuel. It's not like they couldn't have converted a week(s) or so and then once the announced date became known go into production some time before then. |
Fuujin
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
57
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 20:37:00 -
[20] - Quote
Lili Lu wrote:Lili Lu wrote:I would be highly surprised if this switchover is not very visibly advertised for at least a week beforehand. I do not think CCP wants to deal with well over 9000 petitions when people logoff whatever night and find their shiny pos either dead and gone or offline the next day at logon. This leads me to believe that even though they said the switch would occur two weeks later, we may not see it for even a couple more weeks, or after the holidays. But of course I could be wrong and they want all those petitions Called it Well, except for grossly underestimating the lead time Jan 24th? A bit long of a wait. But, wow look at all the people complaining in the feedback thread that they had already converted most their fuel. It's not like they couldn't have converted a week(s) or so and then once the announced date became known go into production some time before then.
It's far easier to "just convert a week" when you only run a handful of towers and can easily hit all of them in that week timeframe.
Try scaling up to a few dozen (let alone a few hundred) and then having to run out to each tower and pull out the old stuff and load up a full bay of the new stuff, within the few days of block fuel you had prepped...
And most of the complaining is due to CCP's poor messaging: the initial announcement gave the impression of a switchover within a few weeks--mid december. This made everyone do a crash program to research up block BPOs, secure manufacturing slots, plan fuelling, build the blocks, and then start prepping their towers with blocks so the transition would be as smooth as possible.
Now CCP is coming out with "did we say a few weeks? we meant a few months" and now you have to stop in your tracks and figure out the most graceful back-out plan while keeping things prepped for the delayed switchover. It's a major pain in the ass.
I understand their reasoning, but the timing and messaging was poorly thought out in advance--it's not like the holiday scheduling was an unknown in november. |
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Lili Lu
50
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Posted - 2011.12.09 22:55:00 -
[21] - Quote
Fuujin wrote: It's far easier to "just convert a week" when you only run a handful of towers and can easily hit all of them in that week timeframe.
Try scaling up to a few dozen (let alone a few hundred) and then having to run out to each tower and pull out the old stuff and load up a full bay of the new stuff, within the few days of block fuel you had prepped...
And most of the complaining is due to CCP's poor messaging: the initial announcement gave the impression of a switchover within a few weeks--mid december. This made everyone do a crash program to research up block BPOs, secure manufacturing slots, plan fuelling, build the blocks, and then start prepping their towers with blocks so the transition would be as smooth as possible.
Now CCP is coming out with "did we say a few weeks? we meant a few months" and now you have to stop in your tracks and figure out the most graceful back-out plan while keeping things prepped for the delayed switchover. It's a major pain in the ass.
I understand their reasoning, but the timing and messaging was poorly thought out in advance--it's not like the holiday scheduling was an unknown in november. True I don't run dozens of towers. I do feel bad for folks that were so eager to use these things that they optimistically banked on a smooth transition. Fuel blocks should be a wonderful new feature. That very fact may have been what led so many to overproduce and overstock.
Folks that do multi multi pos work should be asking their alliance or alliance leaders for volunteers to help with the now switched up switchover. Any alliance that doesn't gather or draft volunteers for such an effort would not be one worth slaving for imo.
However, my point still stands. This was foreseeable. We all know this is a big change in the game. It was bound to encounter hiccups. Sure enough it did. Then there was the timing issue. Greyscale talked about all his folks leaving for vacation over the holidays. I was thinking of players doing the same. Regardless, as soon as the first hiccup hit it was going to push the switchover to some time after the holidays.
The wormholers have it the worst if they did this. As hauling the blocks back to a station to reprocess is not a simple option. I haven't tried putting them in a pos corp hangar array for storage, but I hope that is an option for those folks. And yes it still leaves the necessity to make more runs to known space for new batches of soon to be old fuel. On the flip side it probably is not dozens of pos (although I may be underestimating the size of some wormhole operations here).
They are now apparently going to look at whether they can temporarilly increase the size of the fuel bay on a pos. This would allow the blocks to stay in the bay and allow more room for more soon to old style fuel to be dumped in. I'm not sure that is a good idea. One could foresee problems with overstuffed fuel bays on the eventual switchover day if they reduce the fuel bay size back to the intended size.
I'm not sure how this new schedule will effect or be affected by the upcoming Hulkageddon. Regardless, not much we can do. CCP flubbed something, not unpredictably. And yes, they should have let us know there was a problem a little sooner. But banking on December 14th to the extent of converting all fuel was, for me to be kinder, overeager. |
Justin Credulent
Perkone Caldari State
94
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 23:48:00 -
[22] - Quote
Goon tears, best tears. Null-Sec needs to HTFU and stop crying to CCP. If null-sec wants PvP, they need to stop being carebears and start fighting eachother - after years of bot-mining, they have the ships! |
Xen Solarus
Inner 5phere
8
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Posted - 2011.12.10 00:50:00 -
[23] - Quote
Now i really wish i hadn't converted months of fuel into blocks!
Guess its time to buy some more. |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
186
|
Posted - 2011.12.10 03:10:00 -
[24] - Quote
Xen Solarus wrote:Now i really wish i hadn't converted months of fuel into blocks! Guess its time to buy some more. Or reprocess some blocks at a station where you have perfect refine... assuming you have the skill. |
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University Ivy League
452
|
Posted - 2011.12.10 05:20:00 -
[25] - Quote
Tau Cabalander wrote:Xen Solarus wrote:Now i really wish i hadn't converted months of fuel into blocks! Guess its time to buy some more. Or reprocess some blocks at a station where you have perfect refine... assuming you have the skill.
Even if you don't, if you have Refine V and Refine Eff V trained you'd only lose 0.5% (from the HW/LOz/Isotopes). That's about 2M ISK per 30 days lost by reprocessing a month's worth of large tower fuel blocks.
With Scrapmetal Processing, you get back 100% of the inputs when you reprocess the block. |
Fuujin
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
57
|
Posted - 2011.12.10 08:16:00 -
[26] - Quote
Lili Lu wrote: *wall of missing the point*
But banking on December 14th to the extent of converting all fuel was, for me to be kinder, overeager.
Oh, expecting CCP to screw something up is like expecting water to be wet. The only question is if the water is going to freezing cold or boiling hot.
The problem isn't that fuel isn't onhand--even if you're built a year's supply, you can refine the stuff. The problem is if you've prepped a significant amount of towers tor the half-and-half transition "in a couple of weeks" (implying before the holidays) and now you're left in a position where you have to do 2-3x the fueling work for the next week or so, and THEN you have to do it again in another month. And you didn't have a choice in the matter--if you didn't prep the towers you'd be faced with having to do so within whatever arbitrary timeframe CCP provided (which could be as little as 24-48 hours---a virtually impossible timeline unless you play eve 23/7) and in prepping them you replace half their fuelbay with useless filler materials (which applies both ways--fuel blocks are useless before the patch, and individual fuels are useless after it). So in preparing for the promised timeline and giving yourself a bit of buffer for any implementation screwups you've now doubled your refuelling schedule.
But in attempting to mitigate and anticipate all those risks and screwups, CCP still manages to find a way to shaft you by pushing the date out over a month (or 3 fuelling cycles per tower with the blocks in place). Bravo.
This is easily one of the most required aspects of 0.0 living and one of the most soul-crushing and thankless jobs. Fuel blocks will ultimately make fueling easier, but damn if CCP isn't extracting a couple of pounds of flesh to make it happen. With a soup spoon. |
Rip Minner
ARMITAGE Logistics Salvage and Industries
34
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Posted - 2011.12.10 08:39:00 -
[27] - Quote
I like the name ENERGON CUBES for the win! |
Also Aswell
Apple Industries Inc. Surely You're Joking
2
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Posted - 2011.12.12 16:05:00 -
[28] - Quote
" CCP still manages to find a way to shaft you by pushing the date out over a month (or 3 fuelling cycles per tower with the blocks in place). Bravo."
Wow, exaggerate much?
So exactly how did you get "shafted" here? You made a bunch of fuel cubes that you're going to need anyway from materials you either already had, needed or were going to obtain. I honestly fail to see the problem here. |
Fuujin
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
59
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Posted - 2011.12.12 17:00:00 -
[29] - Quote
Also Aswell wrote:" CCP still manages to find a way to shaft you by pushing the date out over a month (or 3 fuelling cycles per tower with the blocks in place). Bravo."
Wow, exaggerate much?
So exactly how did you get "shafted" here? You made a bunch of fuel cubes that you're going to need anyway from materials you either already had, needed or were going to obtain. I honestly fail to see the problem here.
Consider: you have towers spread across a few systems. Perhaps even several constellations, or even a region! (dare2dream)
Fueling all those towers takes a lot of time. So you prep the towers for the switchover (which by all indications will be within 2-3 weeks of the Crucible patch) by filling them up halfway with blocks, so you have the most amount of time possible to visit them after the patch and pull out the old fuel/fill it up with blocks.
Now, you have to either pull out all the blocks (just to put them all back later) OR you keep them in and have to refuel the tower 2-3 times in the next month. Had this date slippage been communicated several days earlier (when it happened), that much more effort would have been spared in switching over the towers.
I understand how this might not seem a lot of work to someone who maybe operates one (or two!) towers in a nice safe hisec station system, but trust me on this. |
Also Aswell
Apple Industries Inc. Surely You're Joking
2
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Posted - 2011.12.12 18:16:00 -
[30] - Quote
"Consider: you have towers spread across a few systems. Perhaps even several constellations, or even a region! (dare2dream)
Fueling all those towers takes a lot of time. "
If you're have to do all of this solo then your corp is broken. Either get out or recruit pilots that will pitch in and help with these activities. Everyone in our corp pitches in. Sitting around and only jumping in for the profitable ops is not an option.
You're trying to pin this on CCP setting cutover date that was further out than you wanted it to be. I'm honestly not trying to troll you here, man. You really do need to get some responsible pilots to spread out the day-to-day activities.
-AA |
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