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Crozon
Crozon Corp
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Posted - 2006.12.14 00:20:00 -
[61]
Taikun
On become part of ISS, all new members are made fully aware that C3 is NOT ISS space, it belongs to LV. ISS still maintains a policy of allowing neutrals into THEIR space, but this policy is different in C3. Some ISS corps are not even allowed into C3.
I don't know how anyone can make that clearer to you.
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Taikun
Gallente Reaver Academy
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Posted - 2006.12.14 00:49:00 -
[62]
Edited by: Taikun on 14/12/2006 00:55:06
Originally by: Crozon Taikun
On become part of ISS, all new members are made fully aware that C3 is NOT ISS space, it belongs to LV. ISS still maintains a policy of allowing neutrals into THEIR space, but this policy is different in C3. Some ISS corps are not even allowed into C3.
I don't know how anyone can make that clearer to you.
C3 being part of LV is not in dispute. The actions of ISS members towards neutrals is being discused. It was mooted, I gave my recent experiences as an example.
It was not LV members who attacked me. It was ISS members.
Read that again Crozon. ISS members attacked me.
ISS members attacked me in a system where they have docking and ratting rights. Irrespective of soverienty it is ISS patroled and protected space. I know this from the ISS Navy. How else did I get a hanger full of stuff down there? Magic?
The high handed approach by those ISS members towards neutrals is a perfect example of why ISS is under the shrouds of war.
I think Butterdog summed it up best with:
Originally by: Butter Dog When I was in ISS, anyone caught so much looking at a neutral the wrong way was was kicked.
I wasn't there for a fight. I wasn't there to do anything but gleen information on how to retrieve some gear. I announced myself openly and repectfuly inform them of my intentions. Their policy was tell me to f-off first and only after 4 requests for information did I finally recieve it which was promptly followed up by being attacked by ISS members. I am a neutral and should have NEVER been fired upon by an ISS member. Why do I know this? Because I patrolled that very space 4 months ago!
ISS behaviour towards neutrals is the topic Crozon, and quite frankly... it sucks.
I don't know how to make THAT any clearer to you.
Taikun
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Del369
Caldari Office linebackers Center for Disease Creation
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Posted - 2006.12.14 01:06:00 -
[63]
I can think of a way, join IAC
Originally by: Wrangler That is an outright lie! We don't want to discriminate anyone! We want *both* anti-social *and* social players to grief each other!
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Nyphur
Pillowsoft Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.12.14 01:18:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Taikun I wasn't there for a fight. I wasn't there to do anything but gleen information on how to retrieve some gear.
As has been said MANY times before, LV Calico is not an ISS station, it's an LV outpost under rental to a small group of ISS corps approved by both ISS and LV. You can't even dock there.
Eve-Tanking.com - For tanking spreadsheet and resources. |
Taikun
Gallente Reaver Academy
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Posted - 2006.12.14 03:45:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Nyphur You can't even dock there.
No **** Nyphur? Really?
Guess that was why I was asking for a contact name huh?
/rolls eyes
ISS members attacked a non-aggressive neutral. That's all you need to know. 4 months ago I would have reported their actions and they would have been "removed" from ISS. Now it seems... ISS is nothing but full of well... vapid pilots that DESERVE the heat they are now getting.
Taikun
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Nyphur
Pillowsoft Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.12.14 04:22:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Taikun
Originally by: Nyphur You can't even dock there.
No **** Nyphur? Really?
Guess that was why I was asking for a contact name huh?
/rolls eyes
No need to troll, mate. It's not doing your credability any favours.
Quote: ISS members attacked a non-aggressive neutral. That's all you need to know.
No it's not. When someone reports an issue like this to me, I don't just punish for it. I would ask where the incident occured, I'd ask for a copy of the killmail, also what the attacked person was doing and what they said (if anything) in local or a private chat around the time of the incident.
This incident occured in a known closed area of space during a war, not just with IAC but with Goonswarm, who have expressed wish to overthrow the LV outposts down there. Neutrals are simply not allowed to stay in the system in case one is a cyno pilot or is doing recon for Goonswarm. And since it's a deadend constellation, you must leave via the way you came in, through the QRBN gate. You knew all of this before you entered because you used to be in ISSN. I don't see a killmail on our board, could you mail me it please?
If you had jumped in, requested a contact as you came to do and then left when instructed, nothing would have happened. Instead, you came in, requested a contact, swore at everyone in local ("Taikun > Blow me... geeze uptight MOFO.... ") and refused to leave. What did you expect to happen? You were warned that it would happen if you didn't leave and you chose not to leave. We simply cannot allow neutral pilots to hang about down there during a war and you know that. You knew the protocol from being in ISSN and you chose to disregard it, tell everyone to blow you and call them mother*******.
Eve-Tanking.com - For tanking spreadsheet and resources. |
Taikun
Gallente Reaver Academy
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Posted - 2006.12.14 05:58:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Nyphur If you had jumped in, requested a contact as you came to do and then left when instructed, nothing would have happened.
What's wrong with you?
This is exactly what I attempted to do.
Instead my request for a contact was ignored and I was told to leave. Only after I was provided with a name and in a conversation about the posibilty of someone picking the stuff up for me via contract did some moron ISS decide to blast away at me.
The only reason you don't have a kill mail is because most non-navy ISS couldn't finish a apple let alone an non-aggressive neutral.
ISS policy has always been not to attack a non hostile neutral. I was no targeting anyone, I was open and honest about my intentions and was in the zone for less 5-10 min tops.
Hardly "hanging around".
As for accurately describing your pilot as a MOFO. Well, they were and probably still are. Ganking me while in a conversation with ISS reps is beneath low. It's deplorable and would have resulted in them getting drummed out in the past.
Now you can justify this incident, spin doctor it, and blame everyone BUT your pilots actions. But the simple fact of the matter is ISS attacked a non-aggressive neutral.
The arrogance of firing upon a neutral who is seeking information is staggering. It is certianly NOT the ISS I was involved with in the past. No wonder there are so many threads in these forums about ISS arrogance. My first hand experience as a neutral is just that. Arrogance.
Dare I say that attitude comes from the top down? Eh Nyphur?
I see Butterdog has rejoined the Navy. To that I say GOOD. Obviously he has a lot of work to do with ISS and getting them back into check. I am sure you can learn quite a bit off him. I know I did and it's didn't involve grabbin my wang and blasting away at neutrals.
Taikun
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Nyphur
Pillowsoft Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.12.14 06:17:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Taikun
Originally by: Nyphur If you had jumped in, requested a contact as you came to do and then left when instructed, nothing would have happened.
What's wrong with you?
You.
I'm not going to repeat myself, you can just reply to that post over and over again until you get bored because I've said everything there is to say on the matter and you're simply ignoring it, repeating yourself and trolling my replies.
Eve-Tanking.com - For tanking spreadsheet and resources. |
Taikun
Gallente Reaver Academy
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Posted - 2006.12.14 07:42:00 -
[69]
So the moral everyone should take away from this.
ISS do attack neutrals whenever and however they see fit, and do so with ISS leadership support and blessing.
Thanks for clearing that up.
Taikun
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Belid Hagen
The Graduates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.12.14 08:24:00 -
[70]
you need to put more skilpoints into reading comprehension Taikun.
read nyphur's response - read it again - there you go
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FireFoxx80
Caldari E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2006.12.14 16:49:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Butter Dog I've said before I think ISS would be better off without the member corps, and I still think that.
They just cause problems.
Butter, why do you constantly flickers in and out of ISS?
What I do the rest of the time - Vote for a Jita bypass! |
Zhon
Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2006.12.14 18:33:00 -
[72]
Originally by: FowlPlayChiken Although I have recently reccomended some people to FOFF corporation and executive outcomes. I wonder how they are doing? (OT)
Quite Well
Linkage
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Nyphur
Pillowsoft Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.12.14 19:45:00 -
[73]
Originally by: FireFoxx80 Butter, why do you constantly flickers in and out of ISS?
Guess he wanted in on the action in the south. And he's a good fleet commander and soldier (whichever he's here to do), I'm glad he will be joining us.
Eve-Tanking.com - For tanking spreadsheet and resources. |
Alex SOKOLOFF
Rage of Angels Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2006.12.15 01:48:00 -
[74]
Hehe. Its always fun to kill unarmed ppl :D Yarrrr
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FireFoxx80
Caldari E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2006.12.15 13:54:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Nyphur
Originally by: FireFoxx80 Butter, why do you constantly flickers in and out of ISS?
Guess he wanted in on the action in the south. And he's a good fleet commander and soldier (whichever he's here to do), I'm glad he will be joining us.
*meh* ok.
What I do the rest of the time - Vote for a Jita bypass! |
Jimmy Doe
Caldari Bladerunners Mordus Angels
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Posted - 2006.12.19 08:49:00 -
[76]
Edited by: Jimmy Doe on 19/12/2006 08:52:25 this is getting ludicrous, i can specifically recall 3 different situations wher ISS has attacked people who were not hostile in any way to them.
twice a gang member, in my own alliance, in positive standing with ISS, was killed with no recompense by ISS, with nothing more than "oh sorry about that". i know for a fact that this pilot lost first a manticore with very nice fittings to an ISS gate camp on the Torr gate, we let our diplomat handle teh situation, the pilot was given the all clear by the camp to pass with his new ship, that they did NOT pay to replace, and when he did they popped him again. hmm sound awfully hostile to me.
then again a few months ago, several alliance members were camping the Torr gate for hostiles and noob schoolers, what happened? ISS warped in snpiers and engaged the camp. i jumped my main character down from hpa to Torr just to try to settle accounts, what happened, ISS continued to engage us, so what did we do? we fought back killing several. then fought a damn good fight against Doom.
Our policy in the north is this, we dont shoot till you start shooting us. then its on. ISS has done so repeatedly and are not willing to fix their status or revoke negative standings THAT WE HAD TO FIND OUT FROM ISS PILOTS! you set us to red ISS, you burn for it.
Quote: Avoid ISS space if your neutral and they don't "know you". ISS space is basically closed.
there is no such thing as ISS "space" they are neutral and dont own anything as much as they would like to claim so. you think you hold that outpost in EC, think again, i can assure you that with the combined efforts of all those that are tired of your crap in the north, you can quite easily lose that.
You look at me and you laugh at the noob, but look at your wallet and see that insurance the SCC just paid you for your loss |
xh'duality
Caldari Caldari Luftwaffe Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2006.12.19 09:57:00 -
[77]
Do I get an Invite
--------------------------------------------------- It take's 10 finger's for to smacktalk and ONLY ONE TO WIN [The all mighty "I WIN BOTTON"] |
Halafian
The Graduates
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Posted - 2006.12.19 13:28:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Jimmy Doe Edited by: Jimmy Doe on 19/12/2006 08:52:25 this is getting ludicrous, i can specifically recall 3 different situations wher ISS has attacked people who were not hostile in any way to them.
twice a gang member, in my own alliance, in positive standing with ISS, was killed with no recompense by ISS, with nothing more than "oh sorry about that". i know for a fact that this pilot lost first a manticore with very nice fittings to an ISS gate camp on the Torr gate, we let our diplomat handle teh situation, the pilot was given the all clear by the camp to pass with his new ship, that they did NOT pay to replace, and when he did they popped him again. hmm sound awfully hostile to me.
then again a few months ago, several alliance members were camping the Torr gate for hostiles and noob schoolers, what happened? ISS warped in snpiers and engaged the camp. i jumped my main character down from hpa to Torr just to try to settle accounts, what happened, ISS continued to engage us, so what did we do? we fought back killing several. then fought a damn good fight against Doom.
Our policy in the north is this, we dont shoot till you start shooting us. then its on. ISS has done so repeatedly and are not willing to fix their status or revoke negative standings THAT WE HAD TO FIND OUT FROM ISS PILOTS! you set us to red ISS, you burn for it.
Quote: Avoid ISS space if your neutral and they don't "know you". ISS space is basically closed.
there is no such thing as ISS "space" they are neutral and dont own anything as much as they would like to claim so. you think you hold that outpost in EC, think again, i can assure you that with the combined efforts of all those that are tired of your crap in the north, you can quite easily lose that.
Jimmy Dye's account is completely false. Mordus Angels was set negative because they join gate camps hostile to ISS and shoot at ISS ships trying to reach Cassini from Torrinos.
Here's the record:
8/29: Mordus Angels engages AirHawk Alliance -- a corp which was subsequently booted from ISS. They exchange battleship kills, though the first kill was Mordus Angels killing an AHE Raven.
8/29-9/1: Over the next day or so, Mordus Angels, who is joining gate camps hostile to ISS, kills 3 ISS ships with no losses: a kestrel, a crow, and a megathron. One of the ISS dead was AirHawk Alliance.
Nothing more happened for months, until
12/5: Mordus Angels in company with a hostile IRON gate camp kills a TGRAD battlecruiser.
And that's it -- that is the sum total of all contact between ISS and Mordus Angels in EC. 6 dead ISS, mostly from a corp that was kicked out of ISS, and months later aggression from Mordus Angels on a TGRAD battlecruiser. One single MA ship was killed in August by a corp that was kicked out of ISS.
We're certainly been more aggressive lately sniping at hostile gate camps. Anyone trying to gank us at the gate should be aware of that. Expect more of the same. We'd be happy to restore good standings with Mordus Angels, but if they continue to join hostile gate camps and shoot at ISS ships trying to reach Cassini from Torrinos, then we'll shoot back.
I should add that I am not an ISS diplomat and should probably keep my mouth shut. Feel free to contact Manas or Ronan to work this out with TGRADs, if you're actually serious about that.
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Jimmy Doe
Caldari Bladerunners Mordus Angels
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Posted - 2006.12.23 09:45:00 -
[79]
yes we frequently did and still will camp the EC/Tor gate with Iron, D2, etc, as they are allies in the north, however we do not necessarily share standings with them. provide the killmails you speak of please.
You look at me and you laugh at the noob, but look at your wallet and see that insurance the SCC just paid you for your loss |
Velakarando
Free Traders Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2006.12.24 02:23:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Nyphur This incident occured in a known closed area of space during a war, not just with IAC but with Goonswarm, who have expressed wish to overthrow the LV outposts down there. Neutrals are simply not allowed to stay in the system in case one is a cyno pilot or is doing recon for Goonswarm.
Does ISS act as mercenaries in a system where you run the station, but do not control it? In other words, if the system owner treats someone as red, do you treat them as red too?
I'm not speaking for my corp or alliance, just seeking clarification on ISS policy.
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Manas
The Graduates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.12.24 03:35:00 -
[81]
Edited by: Manas on 24/12/2006 03:37:31
Originally by: Velakarando Does ISS act as mercenaries in a system where you run the station, but do not control it? In other words, if the system owner treats someone as red, do you treat them as red too?
I'm not speaking for my corp or alliance, just seeking clarification on ISS policy.
This was an issue (raised by D2) which caused the following to be added in our charter:
Quote:
Rules of engagement PRIVATE outpost systems This refers to private (alliance controlled) ISS outpost systems and territory under friendly alliance control to which ISS have been granted access
- Normal ISS rules of engagements are in effect
- ISS will not engage ships neutral to ISS
- ISS will not report on neutral fleet (neutral to ISS) movements to the host alliance -- ISS will engage and prosecute all KOS targets from the ISS KOS list -- ISS will actively defend ISS assets in alliance controlled space. This includes ISS starbases and ships.
In other words, we follow ISS KOS policy not the hosts (whomever that is). We won't act as their police force. So those getting shot have to do with ISS extingencies of war, only.
TGRAD info & video here
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Halafian
The Graduates
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Posted - 2006.12.24 15:09:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Jimmy Doe yes we frequently did and still will camp the EC/Tor gate with Iron, D2, etc, as they are allies in the north, however we do not necessarily share standings with them. provide the killmails you speak of please.
Well, we're not allowed to post or link killmails here, ISS has a private killbard, and I'm on vacation without Eve access for a week, so I can't evemail them. Anyway, if you don't believe what I said here, I'm not sure why you'd believe whatever other information I provided. What I said was true, and you can choose to believe it or not.
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Jimmy Doe
Caldari Bladerunners Mordus Angels
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Posted - 2006.12.25 14:46:00 -
[83]
well for your edification i remember very well that incident on 8/29 and i know for a fact that Airhawk fired the first shot. i know this because i was sitting watching with an alt and had to jump 23 jumps in a bs to come help kill the the guys involved.
You look at me and you laugh at the noob, but look at your wallet and see that insurance the SCC just paid you for your loss |
Goodtime Girl
Amarr Anger Management
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Posted - 2006.12.27 02:20:00 -
[84]
So another noob alliance shoots at the ISS .......... big deal
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Ronan Teisdari
The Graduates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.12.28 01:25:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Jimmy Doe well for your edification i remember very well that incident on 8/29 and i know for a fact that Airhawk fired the first shot. i know this because i was sitting watching with an alt and had to jump 23 jumps in a bs to come help kill the the guys involved.
I can provide the kill mails if you want.
As we stated, Airhawk is no longer in ISS, and are now members of FLA.
The first kill was an Airhawk member by zcinner and Jester87. zcinner then lost his Raven a few minutes later when the Airhawk fleet arrivied.
There Raven was the only kill Airhawk got, while 2 losses were posted.
But as we stated, we only have the information provided to us on our loss board since Airhawk is no longer in ISS.
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Audri Fisher
Caldari The Keep THE R0CK
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Posted - 2007.01.02 06:03:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Anarchist Domain lol "Good to see that other entities have come to realise the dangers that ISS truely pose."
You're all just targetting a god damn neutral alliance and the easiest targets. Go fight a proper PVP alliance lol.
I see a load of bored pirates and you're going after an alliance who open up low sec to neutrals (who you also shoot).
Make up your excuses and conjur your own ideas up as to why you need to target this alliance, but we all know you're just targetting a non-pvp alliance.
the problem is when an member ISS provides intel to PvP allainces.
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Jester87
FISKL GUARDS Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.01.08 06:00:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Halafian Edited by: Halafian on 19/12/2006 15:08:33 As a daily resident of EC for months, I have a completely different view of things than Jimmy Doe, at least as concerns EC-P8R. In my experience, MA frequently joins gate camps hostile to ISS and shoots at ISS ships trying to reach Cassini from Torrinos.
Here's the record:
8/29: Mordus Angels engages AirHawk Enterprises -- a corp which was subsequently booted from ISS. They exchange battleship kills, though the first kill was Mordus Angels killing an AHE Raven.
8/29-9/1: Over the next day or so, Mordus Angels, joining gate camps hostile to ISS, kills 3 ISS ships with no losses. One of the ISS dead was AirHawk Enterprises.
Nothing more happened for months, until
12/5: Mordus Angels in company with a hostile IRON gate camp kills a TGRAD ship.
And that's it -- from the killboards, that is the sum total of all contact between ISS and Mordus Angels in EC. 6 dead ISS, mostly from a corp that was kicked out of ISS, and months later aggression from Mordus Angels on a TGRAD battlecruiser. One single MA ship was killed in EC in August by a corp that was kicked out of ISS.
We've certainly been more aggressive lately sniping at hostile gate camps. We only do that at gate camps that are hostile to TGRADs and ISS. Anyone trying to gank us at the gate should be aware of that. We'd be happy to restore good standings with Mordus Angels, but they should stop joining hostile gate camps and shooting at ISS ships trying to reach Cassini from Torrinos.
TGRADs is at heart a bunch of carebears and we're good neighbors, but we get tired of being targets for every hostile gate camp at the Tor-EC gate -- which frequently includes MA people. We'd much prefer to just do our thing at Cassini.
I should add that I am not an ISS diplomat and should probably keep my mouth shut. Feel free to contact Manas or Ronan to work this out with TGRADs, if you're actually serious about that.
Hahahahahah i love how I actually started this whole thing - yep, all those 8/29's and stuff was me shooting ISS in Torrinos when i was in MA. Oh boy, I remember taking down what was it? 2 ISS BShips and 1 Cruiser by myself and making it out alive... you guys are fing awful. Im setting ISS to red for me.
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Kaeten
Hybrid Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.01.08 11:11:00 -
[88]
ISS pose as much threat as a paper bag. Can't wait to see what happens when they loose all of their stations.
Pwnage PvP Recruitment |
D2O HeavyWater
Amarr Synergy. Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2007.01.08 12:15:00 -
[89]
I was just wondering?...............Do ISS have any allies left?
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0August0
Gallente The Crucible
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Posted - 2007.01.09 23:09:00 -
[90]
Originally by: D2O HeavyWater I was just wondering?...............Do ISS have any allies left?
BoB, according to IAC... . . . Regards, August |
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