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Blaster ships are obsolete in Revelations

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Author	Topic
murder one Gallente CRICE Corporation Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.25 18:49:00 - [61] Originally by: Sadayiel Originally by: Breed Love having played with teh hype on sisi today (couldnt do it before since my accound was "expired") I must say that it really pwns when fitted and used right. But I'll shut up now, less people use it, less people expect it, and blasters become cheaper . i'm with you mate, maybe it's not the best ship in Evegalaxy, but wtf it works superb on my opinion You guys jsut haven't run up against some well set up ships then. I don't know who you're shooting, but they're not at the top of the list that's for sure. Because I said so...
Breed Love FATAL REVELATIONS Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.25 18:57:00 - [62] why dont you suggest who I should fight against, to try it vs a well set up/well flown ship? who knows, maybe you are right.
Patch86 Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.25 19:03:00 - [63] The two of you could hop on their together, and murder one can test it against something he considers good. Being alliance-mates, you're in a good position to get this done. I'm genuinely interested, being a Gall BS pilot- if you could fraps it, even better. -----------------------------------------------
murder one Gallente CRICE Corporation Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.25 19:06:00 - [64] Originally by: Breed Love why dont you suggest who I should fight against, to try it vs a well set up/well flown ship? who knows, maybe you are right. I forget off the top of my head, but I'll get a list together. Because I said so...
Syris Anu Evolutionary Pressure	Posted - 2006.11.25 20:11:00 - [65] I don't think they are obsolete, but I do think they are seriously disadvantaged by the nerfs on Null and Void (and Spike) ammo, as I posited here. The Hyperion should definitely be the best blaster ship in the game since that is the Gallente speciality and, from a RP perspective, something should be done to help the Mega and Hype achieve their RP role - which is charging damage dealers. Armor bonuses to take the fire while on approach, or a decrease to MWD cap penalty might help. Definitely the tech II ammo nerfs should be looked into as the whole raison d'etre of blasters is that they are supposed to be the highest damaging weaponry. As I said in my other post, the massive skill and ISK requirements to make a tech II Mega or Hype, plus the Gallente back story, should result in a ship that is unrivaled at its optimal range against equal class of battleship. The defense against these ships is to make sure they don't achieve their optimal range. You see this in the Gallente versus Caldari back story where the Caldari have developed EW and ranged weapons with cruise missiles and such to keep the Gallente at a distance knowing their preference and acumen for up close and personal combat.
Iudex Caldari CaIdari Navy	Posted - 2006.11.26 01:39:00 - [66] Stupid thread + op was not looking at the rigs carefully. If he did he would find the rigs Capacitor Control Circuit I and Semiconductor Memory Cell. They both have currently 100 calibration points, a bs has currently 400 so its easy to fit 3 of them - and the interesting thing about them is that they increase their effect the more of them you fit. Basic ammount is 15%, i fitted 3 of the capacitor capacity increase, which resulted in 52,11 % more capacitor capacity and so 52,11% capacity gain (as rechargerate stays same). Even better are those with the capacity rechargerate, 3 of them gave a a capacity gain increas of 62,9 %. And they are even more effective if you use cap rechargers and power diagnostics - those 3 cap recharger rigs and an additional cap recharger II made my cap income more than double. As other rigs are pretty useless (they stack with other modules and give only a tiny effect if you have many of the modules) this rigs will be the most effective, as they boost the effect of similar modules instead of having stacking penalty from them like other rigs, giving a big boost to all capacitor energy using modules. Go to testserver and test it before you start a whining thread.
Kaylana Syi Minmatar The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.11.26 02:11:00 - [67] Originally by: murder one I don't have three or four people at my beck and call to kill someone whenever I want. 90% or more of my kills are solo kills. I hunt, I find someone, I kill them. Whenever I drag around four or five people with me, everyone always logs/safespots/jumps out of the system the instant we're in local and comes back with a twelve person gang to fight. If I had some spare bottles, I could send water to the third world countries from that river you are crying. Team Minmatar Carriers need Clone Vats
Kunming Amarr adeptus gattacus Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.26 03:03:00 - [68] Originally by: Kaden Seer Originally by: murder one It needs to work 1v1, at close range. In it's operating range it needs to dominate. Not just simply kind of maybe sorta work ok, it needs to be outstanding. I totally agree with that, dude. QFAT!! I'm getting tired arguementing for blasters, feels like talking towards a wall of bricks! So I'll just show my protest towards Suxford by canceling my subscription, if the blasters come in nerfed as they are on SiSi... Quote: READ THIS NEXT PART CAREFULLY AS IT IS VERY IMPORTANT AND POSTING A REPLY WITHOUT READING IT MAY RESULT IN YOU LOOKING STUPID.
Rhamnousia Caldari Templars of Light Eternal Rangers of Terror	Posted - 2006.11.26 10:40:00 - [69] i dont know what y'all been on .. but, despite the fact that my char is really poor-skilled (low SP), my hyperion with Ions I got pwned by a drake pre-nerf. wtf?? the setup i used was: x8 Modal Ions x1 Quad LiF x1 90% webber x1 20km scrambler x1 Heavy Electrochemical Cap injector x1 Tracking disruptor (useless vs. missiles boat) x2 large accomodation repper x3 hardener (exp/kin/therm) x1 RCU I rig was unavaiable as the time i tried, so that outta question, as said, im poorly skilled as a blaster pilot, but wtf?? i couldn't even take out a passive tanked BC before run outta cap and die? blasters are supposedly be the highest dps weaponry in the game, otherwise, should i switch over to minnie now? or even caldari for pete's sake? Gallente = Extremely Hard Mode, now? again, im not completely skilled for blasterboat, but as the way things go, i might as well train for other races, or even worse, go back to caldari and hang with the cool kids. GG Gallente. --------------------------------------- - yes, im a noob - yes, im a nut job - no, i dont give a .... about what u think of my noobness - now, tell me sumthing i dont know
Dred'Pirate Jesus Imperial Academy	Posted - 2006.11.26 10:59:00 - [70] Disclaimer: Drunken post.. Blah blah blah.. Nerf this boost that.. I specialized in yada yadda ydda for years.. UNFIR!!!!!!!!!! CCP suck!!!!! EVryone sucks!!!! I cnat pwn with the ship of my choic!!! Kali sucks!!! the divs suck!!! my mega after kali suks!!!! Caldari rule agin!!!! Nerf all racew but mine!!! Booost amarr!!! Mak my hyp the pwn of all blasterbots!!!!! PAY ATTENTION TO MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! whew.. 6months of thread in one post.. I'm passing ourt now.. gnite KALI:Revelations.. Putting the Waaaa back in Piwat..

murder one Gallente CRICE Corporation Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.26 11:07:00 - [71] Originally by: Iudex Stupid thread + op was not looking at the rigs carefully. If he did he would find the rigs Capacitor Control Circuit I and Semiconductor Memory Cell. They both have currently 100 calibration points, a bs has currently 400 so its easy to fit 3 of them - and the interesting thing about them is that they increase their effect the more of them you fit. Basic ammount is 15%, i fitted 3 of the capacitor capacity increase, which resulted in 52,11 % more capacitor capacity and so 52,11% capacity gain (as rechargerate stays same). Even better are those with the capacity rechargerate, 3 of them gave a a capacity gain increas of 62,9 %. And they are even more effective if you use cap rechargers and power diagnostics - those 3 cap recharger rigs and an additional cap recharger II made my cap income more than double. As other rigs are pretty useless (they stack with other modules and give only a tiny effect if you have many of the modules) this rigs will be the most effective, as they boost the effect of similar modules instead of having stacking penalty from them like other rigs, giving a big boost to all capacitor energy using modules. Go to testserver and test it before you start a whining thread. Stupid post + the above poster not looking at the thread carefully. Plainly you're an idiot. Otherwise you'd know that the rig calibration on the ships was only recently increased to 400, and rigs buffed in general. Know what you're talking about before you open your mouth. And the benefits of the cap rigs, while pretty good, are negligible when compared to using grid rigs to cram larger guns and reps on the ship. Because I said so...
Tiger Kior	Posted - 2006.11.26 11:09:00 - [72] Cap Booster decrease in injected power + Capacitory Recharge time increase + no decrease to cap booster cycle times = a dead blasterboat be it hyp or mega before you can do anything meaningful in PvP fleet or solo - unless of course your out ganking bc's and smaller you will never be of use in BS fights.
Tiger Kior	Posted - 2006.11.26 11:11:00 - [73] CCP FLOW CHART CAP BOOSTERS GIVEN THE NEW CHANGES - YOU MESSED UP ; either remove cap booster decrease in injected power or decrease cycle times on cap injectors.
Nytemaster Mega-Deth	Posted - 2006.11.26 11:37:00 - [74] To answer your question, 8x electron blasters 2x electrochemical cap injector w/800s 1x fleeting propulsion 1x J5 disruptor 1x 100mn microwarp drive II 2x Large armor repairer II 1x N-Type Explosive 1x N-Type Kinetic 1x N-Type Thermal 1x Internal Force Field Array (damage control) 3x armor repair rigs Originally by: murder one Edited by: murder one on 25/11/2006 03:47:09 Edited by: murder one on 25/11/2006 03:39:51 Just to give you an idea of what I'm using ship/skill wise: (this is on test with the new mirror) Relevant skills: engie/elec/mech/hull 5, weapon upgrades 5, adv. weapon upgrades 4, gal BS 4, drone interfacing 4, heavy drones 4, all support gun skills at 5 (rapid fire 5, sharpshooter 5 etc.) large blaster spec 4, all nav skills at 4 or 5 etc. Basically besides drone interfacing at 5, T2 heavy drones and BS 5, I have pretty much maxed skills for a blaster pilot. Setups: (every mod is T2 or best named, assume best of everything) Megathron- 7x Ions, standard mids (mwd/web/scram/heavy injector), 2x large accom reps, EANM, DC, 3x Magstab IIs. Results: cap death before able to kill opponent. Ships fought: Abaddon, Raven, Maelstrom, Typhoon, Rokh, Dominix. 7x Neutrons, standard mids w/ medium injector, large accom rep, 1600 plate, DC, EANM, 3x Magstab IIs. Results: dead before cap death. Ships fought: Abaddon, Rokh, Raven, Maelstrom, Tempest. 7x Electrons, heavy diminishing nos, standard mids, 2x T2 large reps, kin/therm/exp hardeners, DC, EANM. Results: Unable to break enemy tank, ran out of cap boosters, then died. Ships fought: Rokh, Raven, Dominix, Maelstrom, Tempest, Typhoon. Hyperion- 8x Ions, standard mids (mwd/web/scram/eccm/heavy injector), T2 large armor rep, DC, EANM, 3x magstabs. Varient: replaced DC with 1600 plate. Same results. Results: died with about 40% cap. Ships fought: Abaddon, Rokh, Maelstrom, Raven, Dominix, Tempest. 8x Electrons, standard mids, 2x T2 large reps, kin/therm/exp hardeners, DC. Results: unable to break enemy tank, ran out of cap charges, then died. Ships fought: Maelstrom, Rokh, Raven, Typhoon, Abaddon. 8x Neutrons, standard mids w/ medium injector (no grid to fit heavy), 1600 plate, EANM, DC, 3x magstabs. Results: varied- either died with about half cap, or went cap dead, then died. Ships fought: Dominix, Raven, Abaddon, Maelstrom. If someone has some better setups for the Hyperion (that still uses blasters) I'd like to see them. The main problem is that you can't active tank long enough to kill someone, and you don't do enough DPS to kill a single BS before they're through your passive tank. The longer you stay in a fight the worse it gets. I've tried to design setups to kill targets before you run out of cap, but the tanks in Revelations are just too good and the ammo has been nerfed too much to be able to break a T2 tank before you're either dead or out of cap. One additional note: blasterships are worthless for killing mission runners in deadspace. MWDs don't work there. --- Nytemaster If you think that jump ques are lame, sign the jump que petition.
Tiger Kior	Posted - 2006.11.26 11:42:00 - [75] and thats really gona stay alive with enough cap to kill anything let alone have enough power to keep the repers going? - ya right who you kidding sounds like you didnt read the part about the cap booster nerfs.
Dred'Pirate Jesus Imperial Academy	Posted - 2006.11.26 11:51:00 - [76] Edited by: Dred''Pirate Jesus on 26/11/2006 12:02:29 and did you forgt thet capacitors are getting bossted to compensate for the increasd hp? of course not thats toooooo easy edt.. oh yeah cap booster are getting the volume nrefed not the charg.. they still hold the same amount and give the same amount of boost but take up less m3 so yeah cap booters are worthles now KALI:Revelations.. Putting the Waaaa back in Piwat..
Tiger Kior	Posted - 2006.11.26 12:13:00 - [77] The charge capacity of cap boosters have been decreased by 20%. The volume of cap boosters have been decreased by 20%. the increase in capacitor size is negated by the increase in capacitor recharge which is out of flow lines with eachother as 1% recharge is not equal to 1% capacitor. if your going to decrease the charge capacity of cap boosters atleast decrease the cycle time on cap injectors or again the flow lines plummet obscenly so working against us now are higher cap recharge times and lower efficency of cap boosters = dead in the water.
Nytemaster Mega-Deth	Posted - 2006.11.26 12:43:00 - [78] Edited by: Nytemaster on 26/11/2006 12:43:15 Helps if you quote who you are talking to. If you are talking about my setup then I challenge you to come up with any hype/mega setup that would beat mine. I am on the test server right now. Originally by: Tiger Kior and thats really gona stay alive with enough cap to kill anything let alone have enough power to keep the repers going? - ya right who you kidding sounds like you didnt read the part about the cap booster nerfs. --- Nytemaster If you think that jump ques are lame, sign the jump que petition.
ramptrick Caldari Art of War Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.11.26 12:57:00 - [79] Originally by: murder one Edited by: murder one on 25/11/2006 03:50:33 There is no point in flying a Megathron or Hyperion blaster ship in the upcoming patch. With the HP increase and the T2 ammo damage reduction both the Mega and the Hype can no longer do enough DPS quickly enough to kill another BS before it runs out of cap or is killed itself. This is assuming the engagement range is optimised for the blaster ship and starts somewhere around 15-20km. The Megathron needs a dual rep tank to live even a minute or so against another T2 fitted BS. Due to CPU limitations, you're stuck with T2 Ions, and even with seven Ion IIs and Void you can't do enough DPS before your cap is dry and the target still remains. If you use a plated Neutron II setup with 7 guns, you still end up dead because you can't put out enough damage before your plate is gone. The Hype's situation is no better. Since it lacks grid you can't fit 8 guns effectively with the same tank as the Mega, so there's no gain there, and you actually end up doing less DPS than a Mega since the Mega with the same tank and same number of guns has one more drone. The Hyperion's problems are compounded even more by it's active tanking bonus. Active tanking is the LAST thing you want to do in Revelations (I liked Kali better, it's shorter to type). In order to get the most out of the active tanking bonus you need to fit two large reps, and that just isn't practical given the cap consumption and the cap requirements of the MWD and guns. A single heavy injector can't keep up with dual reps and eight guns, even if they're electrons. So this means that you need to kill the target before you run out of cap, but the guns simply don't do enough DPS to accomplish that. I have tried all sorts of setups, with the focus being on maximum DPS: the largest guns with 3x magstab IIs in order to develope the highest DPS I could from the highest DPS ship in the game. No setup was ever enough to break a target's tank before I was dead. On the flipside, there is no tank setup that works that can kill a target before I run out of cap. I don't run out of cap charges, I run out of cap, unable to run my reps/guns with my hold still full of cap charges, the injector unable to keep up. Well what about rigs? Rigs are generally pretty useless to improve the situation. Because the Mega is more CPU limited (extremely) adding a few grid rigs won't help much because you still can't add T2 reps or larger T2 guns due to the CPU limitations. The Hype is a little better because adding two grid rigs allows you to fit some larger guns and using some of the extra CPU, but due to the rig nerfs you can no longer fit three grid rigs, and you won't be able to fit two T2 grid rigs due to calibration points, so a 10% grid improvement is all you're going to see from rigs. All the other rigs are pretty much useless: it's not grid-efficient to fit damage rigs, armor rep or armor amount bonus rigs don't give you enough of a bonus to be effective, and their drawbacks to speed are really bad. Speed rigs are pointless when you're already reasonably fast enough to get into range. Blasters are DPS ships, take that away and you take away their reason for being. Endurance setups don't work. Give us our DPS back. Heck, give us more DPS so we can compete with the larger tanks. P.S.- Plated Abaddons work awesome with the new changes. Rejoice Amarr WTF are you talking about!! i taken on plenty of 1vs1 Bs on SiSi and won every time.. i can out gank most of them and im fitted with 8 modal neutrons, 2 LAR II's, and 1 heavy cap injector plus a Medium one.. plus a little tank and webb, so dont go on about it being crap coz they are uBBer pwnmobiles!! convo me ingame and ill give you a great set up.. plus with using rigs makes it so easy to fit..
murder one Gallente CRICE Corporation Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.26 13:23:00 - [80] Originally by: ramptrick Originally by: murder one brilliant words of wisdom WTF are you talking about!! i taken on plenty of 1vs1 Bs on SiSi and won every time.. i can out gank most of them and im fitted with 8 modal neutrons, 2 LAR II's, and 1 heavy cap injector plus a Medium one.. plus a little tank and webb, so dont go on about it being crap coz they are uBBer pwnmobiles!! convo me ingame and ill give you a great set up.. plus with using rigs makes it so easy to fit.. Lol... don't you just love it when someone comes late to the party? Anyway, if you're not fitting T2 guns you're not even in the ballgame. I would rip you apart with a T2 neutron setup without question. From the looks of it, I seriously doubt you could possibly offer any new insight into how to best fit a Hyperion. Please refit your ship with Miner IIs and go back to your rocks. Because I said so...

Asariasha Caldari Cataclysm Enterprises Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.11.26 13:33:00 - [81] Ramp, murder1 will now complain that you must have been fighting against noobs. Thats usually the way he whines around
Breed Love FATAL REVELATIONS Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.26 14:16:00 - [82] Hyperion sux, nobody use it pls, and dont use blasters at all. I want em cheap .
Sadayiel Caldari Black Lance Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.11.26 15:11:00 - [83] Well not worry too much about the hyperion it suxs and can¦t win against any other BS 1 vs 1. Plz as breed says, ignore it so we can get it cheaper. Banana's 4tw - Xorus
Patch86 Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.26 15:15:00 - [84] Tbh, what I'm most worried about is the Mega becoming useless. The Hype is good at just about everything that the Mega is good at- better, generally. What does that make Mega useful for? Its just a poor-mans Hype......... -----------------------------------------------
Imperil Northern Intelligence SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.26 15:28:00 - [85] Like, oh my god? Try to think out of the box. For far too long have normal setups been "best-race-weapon + damange mods". Well, welcome to Kali - Adapt or die! Support POS Overhaul - Read it NOW!
Iudex Caldari CaIdari Navy	Posted - 2006.11.26 16:49:00 - [86] Originally by: murder one Originally by: Iudex Stupid thread + op was not looking at the rigs carefully. If he did he would find the rigs Capacitor Control Circuit I and Semiconductor Memory Cell. They both have currently 100 calibration points, a bs has currently 400 so its easy to fit 3 of them - and the interesting thing about them is that they increase their effect the more of them you fit. Basic ammount is 15%, i fitted 3 of the capacitor capacity increase, which resulted in 52,11 % more capacitor capacity and so 52,11% capacity gain (as rechargerate stays same). Even better are those with the capacity rechargerate, 3 of them gave a a capacity gain increas of 62,9 %. And they are even more effective if you use cap rechargers and power diagnostics - those 3 cap recharger rigs and an additional cap recharger II made my cap income more than double. As other rigs are pretty useless (they stack with other modules and give only a tiny effect if you have many of the modules) this rigs will be the most effective, as they boost the effect of similar modules instead of having stacking penalty from them like other rigs, giving a big boost to all capacitor energy using modules. Go to testserver and test it before you start a whining thread. Stupid post + the above poster not looking at the thread carefully. Plainly you're an idiot. Otherwise you'd know that the rig calibration on the ships was only recently increased to 400, and rigs buffed in general. Know what you're talking about before you open your mouth. And the benefits of the cap rigs, while pretty good, are negligible when compared to using grid rigs to cram larger guns and reps on the ship. No look, you are the retard here: the calibrations of a ship were increased togehter with the calibration points of the rigs. It was possible to fit 3 of them before that too, you simply was to stupid to see them but startet a whinage. In that time you wrote the whinate post you should better have looked on all the rigs. And it's quite obvious here, you didn't see the rigs and whined about your mega sux due cap nerv bla bla bla. Now i caught you being a retard and you don't have any excuses so you say stuff like "idiot blah blah" - but that does not make you right, you know you overseen here something. Next time before you whine get all te facts.
infraX Caldari Finite Horizon The Red Skull	Posted - 2006.11.26 16:58:00 - [87] Edited by: infraX on 26/11/2006 16:59:57 Well I give up. Just took my Hyperion up against another Hyperion. I had 8 Ion Blaster II and 2 damage rigs and I still couldn't break his tank. The result? He spend 10 minutes tanking my damage until I was out of boosters and he had NOS'd me for long enough to kill me with his drones. Lame. ps. I doub't even capless weapons could out DPS that setup so they wouldn't stand a chance of breaking his tank and killing him either. NOS needs a big nerf because it's currently more powerful than fitting guns in a perfect 1v1. Anyone who can't see that is a tard. Rest in peace solo pvp.
Malthros Zenobia Caldari Independent Navy Reserve	Posted - 2006.11.26 17:12:00 - [88] Originally by: Breed Love Hyperion sux, nobody use it pls, and dont use blasters at all. I want em cheap . Lies, everyone use blasters. Use blasters on your hyps, megas, rokhs, ravens, apocs, and so on. Don't use Railguns and seige missile launchers, they suck. T2 missiles suck horribly too, so just escrow/contract all your T2 missile BPOs to me, and then go use blasters, or maybe ACs. Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
Malthros Zenobia Caldari Independent Navy Reserve	Posted - 2006.11.26 17:15:00 - [89] Originally by: infraX ps. I doub't even capless weapons could out DPS that setup so they wouldn't stand a chance of breaking his tank and killing him either. NOS needs a big nerf because it's currently more powerful than fitting guns in a perfect 1v1. Anyone who can't see that is a tard. Rest in peace solo pvp. Just how often does 'perfect pvp' happen in EVE? I'm all for the occasional honorable match between two people, but really now, on TQ, after 5 minutes, either you or the other guy would've called in the troops, and the person that didn't, would be dead. Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
Bazman Caldari Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.26 18:01:00 - [90] Despite all the screaming and whining being done, Murder One is quite right. The fact that Gallente Blasterships are being forced into fighting in a style that is contrary to the Maximum Firepower/crap tank that they are usually reknowned for is bad enough. I don't want to nibble my enemies to death with 5 Nosses and 3 Electrons. I want to rip them apart with a full rack of blasters at point blank range and not have to go mental because I ran out of cap while firing my guns and the target still has 50% armour left. Blasters are simply rubbish come Kali, or more accurately, all Blaster Platforms are rubbish. Sure you can gank NPCers, but thats about it. ----- OMG READ TUXFORD!!!1

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