Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 [12] 13 14 15 .. 15 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 85 post(s) |
Warmeister
Van Diemen's Demise Pandemic Legion
10
|
Posted - 2015.06.26 11:03:48 -
[331] - Quote
so many ongoing timers someone's been slacking off
Fozzie, any ETA on the fix for defence multipliers applying to defender and freeported stations? it's kinda hard to do 20 nodes with a 6x defense multiplier |
|
CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
13031
|
Posted - 2015.06.26 11:22:54 -
[332] - Quote
Warmeister wrote:so many ongoing timers someone's been slacking off
Fozzie, any ETA on the fix for defence multipliers applying to defender and freeported stations? it's kinda hard to do 20 nodes with a 6x defense multiplier It's fixed internally we're just running a smoketest on the new build before deploying it to Duality.
Game Designer | Team Five-0
https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie
http://www.twitch.tv/ccp_fozzie/
|
|
|
CCP Lebowski
C C P C C P Alliance
623
|
Posted - 2015.06.26 11:39:47 -
[333] - Quote
Sorry for the wait on the fix folks, a few large behind the scene changes have been implemented in the last day and we want to make sure the build is nice and stable for a weekend of war :)
CCP Lebowski | EVE Quality Assurance | Team Five-0
@CCP_Lebowski
|
|
Dreamer Targaryen
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
1
|
Posted - 2015.06.26 11:48:20 -
[334] - Quote
BlitZ Kotare wrote: In practice, due to server ticks, this means it takes a capital ship ~30 minutes to do what a T2 entosis link subcap can do in 12, because the "cooldown" doesn't start until the node captures, and the node captures at EXACTLY 10 minutes, assuming it was only a 10min node. Of course, this would be even longer if you're attacking something. After capturing 50+ 10min-nodes, I never had the case, where the module did not run out at a similar time (= a few (5?) seconds after) as the node was captured. So if you are not interrupted or the multiplier was not 1, I don't see, how it should ever take 30 minutes. |
Warmeister
Van Diemen's Demise Pandemic Legion
10
|
Posted - 2015.06.26 12:02:21 -
[335] - Quote
it will depend on the indexes, but given that the base capture time of objects is close to 10 mins it will more often end cycle close to capping the node, rather than not |
|
CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
13032
|
Posted - 2015.06.26 12:17:48 -
[336] - Quote
An unmodified and uncontested node should never stretch into an extra cycle for the 10 minute and 5 minute links, as the "10 minute" base capture time on the nodes is actually 9 minutes and 55 seconds now to provide a buffer for server ticks.
However once activity multipliers or other players start showing up, things change significantly.
Game Designer | Team Five-0
https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie
http://www.twitch.tv/ccp_fozzie/
|
|
BlitZ Kotare
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
134
|
Posted - 2015.06.26 12:29:30 -
[337] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:An unmodified and uncontested node should never stretch into an extra cycle for the 10 minute and 5 minute links, as the "10 minute" base capture time on the nodes is actually 9 minutes and 55 seconds now to provide a buffer for server ticks.
However once activity multipliers or other players start showing up, things change significantly.
Oh. That must be new? I was using a Rorq and an Archon to capture some nodes on Duality to test out links on capitals earlier in the test. Almost every time (again, depending on ticks) I was stuck there for an extra 10min cycle even for 10min defensive nodes. So the 9min55s change might be in response to my earlier post in the thread questioning the length of cycle times post-node-save and such? Either way I approve, a very fair change IMO.
This means that, for defensive node saves, you're looking at 20min of "stuck" time for a capitals (assuming zero attacker activity), for offensive use you're looking at a bare minimum of 20min, upwards to... I guess 70? At a 6x multiplier it would take you 10min to warm up and 60min on target to capture that node, assuming a T2 entosis link of course. |
|
CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
13034
|
Posted - 2015.06.26 13:54:45 -
[338] - Quote
BlitZ Kotare wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:An unmodified and uncontested node should never stretch into an extra cycle for the 10 minute and 5 minute links, as the "10 minute" base capture time on the nodes is actually 9 minutes and 55 seconds now to provide a buffer for server ticks.
However once activity multipliers or other players start showing up, things change significantly. Oh. That must be new? I was using a Rorq and an Archon to capture some nodes on Duality to test out links on capitals earlier in the test. Almost every time (again, depending on ticks) I was stuck there for an extra 10min cycle even for 10min defensive nodes. So the 9min55s change might be in response to my earlier post in the thread questioning the length of cycle times post-node-save and such? Either way I approve, a very fair change IMO. This means that, for defensive node saves, you're looking at 20min of "stuck" time for a capitals (assuming zero attacker activity), for offensive use you're looking at a bare minimum of 20min, upwards to... I guess 70? At a 6x multiplier it would take you 10min to warm up and 60min on target to capture that node, assuming a T2 entosis link of course. Yeah we implemented this tweak last week thanks to the feedback so far. Thanks!
Game Designer | Team Five-0
https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie
http://www.twitch.tv/ccp_fozzie/
|
|
Gabriel Karade
Noir. No Not Believing
256
|
Posted - 2015.06.26 17:41:43 -
[339] - Quote
BlitZ Kotare wrote:The entosis module also has a 'cool down' cycle much like going red on a cyno, triage or siege module. So while the node may be won in ~8 minutes faster than a subcap could have done it using a T2 entosis link, the capital ship is stuck there for up to another 10min after that waiting for the module to cycle off completely. In practice, due to server ticks, this means it takes a capital ship ~30 minutes to do what a T2 entosis link subcap can do in 12, because the "cooldown" doesn't start until the node captures, and the node captures at EXACTLY 10 minutes, assuming it was only a 10min node. Of course, this would be even longer if you're attacking something.
To be honest I feel like the 10 minute cycle time on a T2 entosis link is fine, it's 5 minutes longer than a normal triage cycle and puts an unsupported capital ship, which can't receive any friendly support at all, in ongoing mortal danger. Despite how OP this might look on Duality, anyone who uses unsupported triage carriers as entosis ships on TQ is going to get their **** stomped on.
Also please keep in mind we're not talking about one node here, or two, but 5 or more at at time, per sov object that has come out of reinforced. We've seen systems with 50+ nodes in them at once, and that's just on Duality. That's a lot of triage carriers even for PL to field at once, let alone Podunk Alliance. And you have to find some way to defend all of them, spread out around a constellation at the same time. If you attack one and they respond by jumping stuff in? Move on to the next one, there's plenty of multi-billion isk triage carriers to kill (in our fictional scenario where someone tries to capture all the nodes with triage carriers). I think as well, the fact we're all basically having a knife fight in a phone box, makes things appear 'worse' than it would be in reality on TQ - no one has had to really worry about jump ranges/fatigue so far in this test.
War Machine: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=386293
|
Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
2758
|
Posted - 2015.06.26 18:32:13 -
[340] - Quote
Gabriel Karade wrote:BlitZ Kotare wrote:The entosis module also has a 'cool down' cycle much like going red on a cyno, triage or siege module. So while the node may be won in ~8 minutes faster than a subcap could have done it using a T2 entosis link, the capital ship is stuck there for up to another 10min after that waiting for the module to cycle off completely. In practice, due to server ticks, this means it takes a capital ship ~30 minutes to do what a T2 entosis link subcap can do in 12, because the "cooldown" doesn't start until the node captures, and the node captures at EXACTLY 10 minutes, assuming it was only a 10min node. Of course, this would be even longer if you're attacking something.
To be honest I feel like the 10 minute cycle time on a T2 entosis link is fine, it's 5 minutes longer than a normal triage cycle and puts an unsupported capital ship, which can't receive any friendly support at all, in ongoing mortal danger. Despite how OP this might look on Duality, anyone who uses unsupported triage carriers as entosis ships on TQ is going to get their **** stomped on.
Also please keep in mind we're not talking about one node here, or two, but 5 or more at at time, per sov object that has come out of reinforced. We've seen systems with 50+ nodes in them at once, and that's just on Duality. That's a lot of triage carriers even for PL to field at once, let alone Podunk Alliance. And you have to find some way to defend all of them, spread out around a constellation at the same time. If you attack one and they respond by jumping stuff in? Move on to the next one, there's plenty of multi-billion isk triage carriers to kill (in our fictional scenario where someone tries to capture all the nodes with triage carriers). I think as well, the fact we're all basically having a knife fight in a phone box, makes things appear 'worse' than it would be in reality on TQ - no one has had to really worry about jump ranges/fatigue so far in this test. People like blitz aren't going to try and screw over PL but if you pay close attention you'll notice he's using an archon and a rorq for a necrosis platform. That should scream warning to ccp and yet for some reason fozzie is just like eh whatever. Considering how long we've been stuck with the broken ishtar that they just won't fix after a year or more I have little faith in the We'll Adjust It Later response. I'm not sure if they have noticed but the games population is on actual danger art thus point and if they screw this up it'll likely not recover.
How hard is it to just err on the side of caution for once when it comes to a ship class that's always given them problems. But whatever, they're blowing it off and the proof that they were warned how bad it would be is right here in print
Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
|
|
CAPS TIME
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.26 18:56:52 -
[341] - Quote
You are over reacting, how does he testing links on capitals(his words) more than a week ago "scream warning to ccp" and lead you to think it's OP? |
Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
2758
|
Posted - 2015.06.26 19:38:57 -
[342] - Quote
CAPS TIME wrote:You are over reacting, how does he testing links on capitals(his words) more than a week ago "scream warning to ccp" and lead you to think it's OP? He's not warning them I am. I'm also one of the best capital fcs in the game. The fracture point currently in an entosis engagement is the entosis ship itself. Sub capital fights have shown that overwhelmingly you can counter your opponent by simply alpha striking him of the field. So the natural inclination is going to be too use the beefiest ship you can to get the job done. And you won't deploy a single carrier, they'll be in groups. Jump fatigue won't matter since carriers can take gates, and it'll all be nice and close in a singular constellation.
My alliance can put 100 carriers down without much effort in groups of twenty and still have a gigantic ball of supers ready to drop-áshould an entity try to counter the pod of carriers.
What's a smaller entity, or even a weak coalition going to do against that? And what is our disincentive? A few extra minutes for a near sure win?
Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
|
Ruune en Gravonere
Running with Dogs Stella Nova
36
|
Posted - 2015.06.26 20:15:29 -
[343] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:CAPS TIME wrote:You are over reacting, how does he testing links on capitals(his words) more than a week ago "scream warning to ccp" and lead you to think it's OP? He's not warning them I am. I'm also one of the best capital fcs in the game. The fracture point currently in an entosis engagement is the entosis ship itself. Sub capital fights have shown that overwhelmingly you can counter your opponent by simply alpha striking him of the field. So the natural inclination is going to be too use the beefiest ship you can to get the job done. And you won't deploy a single carrier, they'll be in groups. Jump fatigue won't matter since carriers can take gates, and it'll all be nice and close in a singular constellation. My alliance can put 100 carriers down without much effort in groups of twenty and still have a gigantic ball of supers ready to drop-áshould an entity try to counter the pod of carriers. What's a smaller entity, or even a weak coalition going to do against that? And what is our disincentive? A few extra minutes for a near sure win?
To be fair nerfing the entosis link for caps won't curtail that tactic... all you need to do is put and entosis link ship in the middle of your carrier pod and the result will likely be the same...
|
Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
2758
|
Posted - 2015.06.26 22:20:03 -
[344] - Quote
Ruune en Gravonere wrote:Grath Telkin wrote:CAPS TIME wrote:You are over reacting, how does he testing links on capitals(his words) more than a week ago "scream warning to ccp" and lead you to think it's OP? He's not warning them I am. I'm also one of the best capital fcs in the game. The fracture point currently in an entosis engagement is the entosis ship itself. Sub capital fights have shown that overwhelmingly you can counter your opponent by simply alpha striking him of the field. So the natural inclination is going to be too use the beefiest ship you can to get the job done. And you won't deploy a single carrier, they'll be in groups. Jump fatigue won't matter since carriers can take gates, and it'll all be nice and close in a singular constellation. My alliance can put 100 carriers down without much effort in groups of twenty and still have a gigantic ball of supers ready to drop-áshould an entity try to counter the pod of carriers. What's a smaller entity, or even a weak coalition going to do against that? And what is our disincentive? A few extra minutes for a near sure win? To be fair nerfing the entosis link for caps won't curtail that tactic... all you need to do is put and entosis link ship in the middle of your carrier pod and the result will likely be the same... Not really, you can still roll in with munnins, tornado's, machs, hell even a few grip of arty ruptures and just womp the entosis ship from range and then warp out.
It will take a capital force to stop an entosising capital force, and the entosising capital force will be the weapon of choice because its the ONLY thing that can withstand concentrated sub cap alpha.
An insured triage carrier is a minimalist loss comparatively to other things that will stand up to ewar.
This whole 'entosis ships wont start working until the grid is secure' is pure fantasy, we've proven that with the right ships you can easily do it with hostiles on grid.
Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
|
Lucas Quaan
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
102
|
Posted - 2015.06.26 23:35:11 -
[345] - Quote
And while we're at it, taking sov is still ultimately tied to a single location event when you defend/contest a freshly dropped IHub/TCU. I'm not saying that waiting for that contest is a good strategy for a defender, you do after all lose your current structure and all its benefits, but it is most definitely viable for an opportunist third party attacker that just so happens to be in the area. Why go through all the grinding if you can simply drop the hammer for 20 min at the end?
You do have to work for the station, though. |
Warmeister
Van Diemen's Demise Pandemic Legion
10
|
Posted - 2015.06.27 05:29:42 -
[346] - Quote
Lucas Quaan wrote:And while we're at it, taking sov is still ultimately tied to a single location event when you defend/contest a freshly dropped IHub/TCU. I'm not saying that waiting for that contest is a good strategy for a defender, you do after all lose your current structure and all its benefits, but it is most definitely viable for an opportunist third party attacker that just so happens to be in the area. Why go through all the grinding if you can simply drop the hammer for 20 min at the end?
You do have to work for the station, though.
i agree, it hink it'd be better if tcu/ihub followed same mechanics as station.
after new tcu/ihub is launched - it should start spawning nodes in the constellation, just like the freeported station. if more than one entity is contesting sov - they should fight for those nodes, rather than trying to put a large blob on the structure itself.
|
Gabriel Karade
Noir. No Not Believing
256
|
Posted - 2015.06.27 07:08:06 -
[347] - Quote
^ That's a really good idea; it's odd that, after all the design effort that's gone into dispersing the fighting, the final battle allows for, for example, your good selves, to drop a Superball onto the location and ninja it
War Machine: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=386293
|
Ruune en Gravonere
Running with Dogs Stella Nova
36
|
Posted - 2015.06.27 10:57:26 -
[348] - Quote
Any news on when Duality will be back up? |
|
CCP Habakuk
C C P C C P Alliance
1364
|
Posted - 2015.06.27 12:32:49 -
[349] - Quote
Ruune en Gravonere wrote:Any news on when Duality will be back up?
Now. Unfortunately I only saw it now, that the automated startup scripts failed.
CCP Habakuk | EVE Quality Assurance | Team Gridlock
Bug reporting | Mass Testing
|
|
michael chasseur
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
58
|
Posted - 2015.06.27 12:55:01 -
[350] - Quote
info isn't showing on systems now; made a petition
edit: yes my bad also fixed now quick work boys, ez mid gfgf |
|
|
CCP Habakuk
C C P C C P Alliance
1364
|
Posted - 2015.06.27 13:04:45 -
[351] - Quote
michael chasseur wrote:info isn't showing on systems now; made a petition
I hope by "petition" you mean "bug report" (F12 - Report Bug).
CCP Habakuk | EVE Quality Assurance | Team Gridlock
Bug reporting | Mass Testing
|
|
Neddy Fox
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
36
|
Posted - 2015.06.27 13:24:22 -
[352] - Quote
CCP Habakuk wrote:Ruune en Gravonere wrote:Any news on when Duality will be back up? Now. Unfortunately I only saw it now, that the automated startup scripts failed.
You mean you aren't running something like Zabbix or Nagios to give you alerts when something fails?
-> Application to CCP as network engineer incoming :)
|
Ruune en Gravonere
Running with Dogs Stella Nova
36
|
Posted - 2015.06.27 17:54:14 -
[353] - Quote
upgrades not working again at least in our cap system |
utec asmo
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
6
|
Posted - 2015.06.27 19:22:48 -
[354] - Quote
Thanks for fixing freeport nodes. |
Gabriel Karade
Noir. No Not Believing
258
|
Posted - 2015.06.27 21:29:23 -
[355] - Quote
Warmeister wrote:Lucas Quaan wrote:And while we're at it, taking sov is still ultimately tied to a single location event when you defend/contest a freshly dropped IHub/TCU. I'm not saying that waiting for that contest is a good strategy for a defender, you do after all lose your current structure and all its benefits, but it is most definitely viable for an opportunist third party attacker that just so happens to be in the area. Why go through all the grinding if you can simply drop the hammer for 20 min at the end?
You do have to work for the station, though. i agree, it hink it'd be better if tcu/ihub followed same mechanics as station. after new tcu/ihub is launched - it should start spawning nodes in the constellation, just like the freeported station. if more than one entity is contesting sov - they should fight for those nodes, rather than trying to put a large blob on the structure itself. ^^
War Machine: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=386293
|
Tappits
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
112
|
Posted - 2015.06.27 22:00:13 -
[356] - Quote
Gabriel Karade wrote:Warmeister wrote:Lucas Quaan wrote:And while we're at it, taking sov is still ultimately tied to a single location event when you defend/contest a freshly dropped IHub/TCU. I'm not saying that waiting for that contest is a good strategy for a defender, you do after all lose your current structure and all its benefits, but it is most definitely viable for an opportunist third party attacker that just so happens to be in the area. Why go through all the grinding if you can simply drop the hammer for 20 min at the end?
You do have to work for the station, though. i agree, it hink it'd be better if tcu/ihub followed same mechanics as station. after new tcu/ihub is launched - it should start spawning nodes in the constellation, just like the freeported station. if more than one entity is contesting sov - they should fight for those nodes, rather than trying to put a large blob on the structure itself. ^^
You mad bro?
maybe you could of spent all day grinding thru 80 station nodes with 40-60mins entosis timers on them all day because concord stations are still bugged and have indexes applied to them still.
Its not that bad of a system you just have to protect one area for 12 mins ... were as in TQ sov you have to protect TCU's for 6h. You failed to protect the tcu and decided to put all your forces in bubbles on the in-gate in a non cyno jammed system. |
Ryno Caval
House of Praetor Fidelas Constans
34
|
Posted - 2015.06.28 05:38:04 -
[357] - Quote
There seems to be a an issue with the 0345 eve DT it says it is supposed to come back up in 30mins but the server stays offline till after TQ downtime |
Neddy Fox
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
37
|
Posted - 2015.06.28 08:11:21 -
[358] - Quote
Sadly, Duality didn't restart again today. CCP Habakuk can you fix it? |
Kenneth Feld
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
244
|
Posted - 2015.06.28 14:05:19 -
[359] - Quote
Ryno Caval wrote:I don't know how I feel about changing the mechanic of the TCU and IHUB since there are counters to the drops and what not I mean again this is a test server and the real challenge with be defending what you put down. You basically just have to counter in force as well as ensure you have a cyno inhibitor, mobile or otherwise. Also if you do it right you can drop TCU's and IHUB's simultaneously across the constellation (requires some coordination) to prevent ninjas as well as locate the force that will be dropping in and basically putting your blob on their blob there to ensure capture for yourself. Yes, FozzieSov was supposed to reduce blob warfare but not totally remove it. You just have more moving parts which creates a level of complexity and depth to overall strategy. You can't just wait for reinforce timers and cyno in both forces. It creates roles for hunter's and for tacticians rather than just saying this is reinforced so we are waiting for the timer and putting max dudes to take it. The overall coordination makes this far more interesting and causes people who are in tactical leadership positions to think of multi-layered attack and defense strategies rather than the traditional epeen measuring contest that Dominion SOV created.
Holy wall of text:
I'll address one thing: Fozzie sov is supposed to remove EHP based sov warfare NOT reduce blob warfare. Blob warfare was semi reduced when you have the nodes popping up around the constellation for station capture. It is crazy to think some nerd won't jam 1000 people in a system to do XX at any time. |
Gabriel Karade
Noir. No Not Believing
258
|
Posted - 2015.06.28 14:48:08 -
[360] - Quote
Tappits wrote:Gabriel Karade wrote:Warmeister wrote:Lucas Quaan wrote:And while we're at it, taking sov is still ultimately tied to a single location event when you defend/contest a freshly dropped IHub/TCU. I'm not saying that waiting for that contest is a good strategy for a defender, you do after all lose your current structure and all its benefits, but it is most definitely viable for an opportunist third party attacker that just so happens to be in the area. Why go through all the grinding if you can simply drop the hammer for 20 min at the end?
You do have to work for the station, though. i agree, it hink it'd be better if tcu/ihub followed same mechanics as station. after new tcu/ihub is launched - it should start spawning nodes in the constellation, just like the freeported station. if more than one entity is contesting sov - they should fight for those nodes, rather than trying to put a large blob on the structure itself. ^^ You mad bro? maybe you could of spent all day grinding thru 80 station nodes with 40-60mins entosis timers on them all day because concord stations are still bugged and have indexes applied to them still. Its not that bad of a system you just have to protect one area for 12 mins ... were as in TQ sov you have to protect TCU's for 6h. You failed to protect the tcu and decided to put all your forces in bubbles on the in-gate in a non cyno jammed system. Don't be obtuse - you can't cyno jam someone else's system.... (the TCU grid had multiple cyno inhibs, as you were aware).
No, not mad - I think we did all we could in yesterday's fight (pushed the Archon you had, back through the gate when you first tried, killed the Marauders you pushed through, until you finally managed to burn interceptors through the bubble and away from the inhibs to get the initial cyno up...). It just gets immensely frustrating when it appears someone can sit back, with no eyes in system, and know when it's time to drop the Supers and clean up.
Given that this is the feedback thread - feedback provided.
War Machine: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=386293
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 [12] 13 14 15 .. 15 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |