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Kai'au Charante
The Scope Gallente Federation
3
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Posted - 2015.05.30 07:32:36 -
[1] - Quote
I don't really care about losing ships, my only problem is with getting podded. I just got gate camped, whatever, i knew there was a risk of it in the area I was flying in. The problem is, I was transporting a nearly empty Tristan and got scrammed almost instantly after dropping gate cloak. I thought it was weird that they were able to target me so quickly, but whatever.
As soon as I saw there were a bunch of them, I started spamming warp and didn't stop until after I was podded. I had a post on here a week or so ago and the advice from many people was that you should be able to get away if you spam the button. I don't see how that's true. I was literally clicking the button from before my frigate got destroyed and they locked me nearly instantly. Is there anything I can do to not get podded? Within the constellation I've been working in, I've been having fun doing a bunch of different stuff and I'm making a lot more than I'm losing, but half the time when I try to run out for supplies, I get ganked.
I know people are going to say to get with some friends, but that's really not practical for me since I'm in a low-pop time zone and I have a very irregular schedule. Is there any way to get through gate camps without getting podded by myself? I don't care about losing ships, I just want to be able to keep some half-way decent implants. |
Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
9776
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Posted - 2015.05.30 07:43:12 -
[2] - Quote
fly a covops or use a scout in a covops so your main never blind jumps and your chances of getting caught in a gatecamp will drop to slightly above 0.01%.
at this point the only reason it will happen is your hubris or incompetence , trust me iv lost ships to both.
read this, practise makes perfect
=]|[=
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Kai'au Charante
The Scope Gallente Federation
3
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Posted - 2015.05.30 08:45:56 -
[3] - Quote
That post is helpful. I thought I already started aligning, but maybe not.
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Cherri Minoa
Kongsberg Vaapenfabrikk Amarr branch. Sev3rance
58
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Posted - 2015.05.30 08:52:25 -
[4] - Quote
In hi-sec or lo-sec (ie. where bubbles are not allowed) it is theoretically possible to get your pod out every time. As you probably know, when it becomes clear that your ship is going to pop, you select your warp-out and just keep spamming the warp button. As your ship explodes, the command is applied to your pod, and since pods align and warp instantly then the enemy have no chance to lock you.
That's the theory. In practice of course things go wrong. In all the excitement of getting whacked, you may be a little late with the "click" after the pod ejects. Or you may just be the victim of a bit of lag at the wrong time. Sometimes you do it all correct and still get caught.
TL;DR You were unlucky. Don't let it put you off.
"If I had been censured every time I have run my ship, or fleets under my command, into great danger, I should have long ago been out of the Service" - Horatio Nelson
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Ro Fenrios
Armilies corporation Balcora Gatekeepers
90
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Posted - 2015.05.30 09:07:23 -
[5] - Quote
- Using starmap and checking statistics, especially "ships destroyed in last 1h" will help you predict if the low sec system you are heading to might have gatecamp. Few kills might be fine, but if the system has higher number of kills per hour, might want to avoid it.
- Especially high sec -> Low sec -> High sec shortcuts see lot of gate camping. Sometimes FW low sec as well. If you are worried about camps, avoid those.
- Most of low sec is relatively safe to enter. If you are looking to have solo lo sec career, find yourself some nice system or constellation where you would like to settle, observe the locals and eventually you know who to avoid and who to hit. Most likely you will make friends and enemies in local in no time. Surely your eve experience will be more interesting.
- Low sec life can be quite profitable, especially 0.2 - 0.1 systems where clone soldiers with most expensive tags spawn. Making a hundred million a day without actually grinding or looking to make isk is not impossible. Sometimes you get lucky and get one of those mordus ships. Just check belts every now and then and that's it.
- Don't loose your thirst for adventure. Don't be afraid to interact with other players even if it means shooting things. My best eve experiences have been getting destroyed by people, making friends and eventually flying with them. |
Kai'au Charante
The Scope Gallente Federation
3
|
Posted - 2015.05.30 09:54:17 -
[6] - Quote
Just tried it again, going through the same camp area intentionally with low-end implants. Practiced the cloak trick all the way, seemed like I was pulling it off fine, nope got scrammed instantly when I started to align. I don't see how a covops would be any better bc it seems like they're locking and scramming me literally instantly. I really, really hate it when people start crying about exploits when really, they just got beat, but I just don't see how they're doing this. It took them a few seconds to kill me so I was just spamming warp the whole time and they still podded me. Is it possible with any particular fit to guarantee you can lock and scram someone with no possibility of them getting away? I'm thinking about recording video of this. I was literally spamming warp for about 5 seconds before my frigate died and they still got my pod.
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Ovv Topik
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
719
|
Posted - 2015.05.30 10:41:07 -
[7] - Quote
The most dangerous gates are the hi/low border systems on the LS side obviously.
Some gates are notorious like Amamake and Tama, but you quickly get to know which ones to avoid as you get used to an area.
If you are heading somewhere new check a KB for the system before you travel through.
I use : https://eve-kill.net/?a=search
Change type from 'Pilot' to 'System' and get a report like this: https://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=29104861
Beware of recent kills by Arty Thrashers, Svipuls or smart bombing Battleships.
You soon get a feel for which systems to avoid.
"Nicknack, I'm in a shoe in space, on my computer, in my house, with a cup of coffee, in't that something." - Fly Safe PopPaddi. o7
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Ovv Topik
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
719
|
Posted - 2015.05.30 10:49:28 -
[8] - Quote
Just checked your KB, and in your case the Prospect would be a much safer bet for moving Gas out of Low sec.
Otherwise, check youtube for guides on doing the cloak/MWD trick for much safer travel in the Venture.
If you're getting caught whilst harvesting, you need to brush up on your Dscanning. Again, lots of advise videos on youtube, and once your in the cloud, you only really need to worry about probes, as ships cant warp straight to you without scanning you down first.
Don't get disheartened. Every loss is a lesson. You will quickly learn to adapt and survive and the challenge will make you a top notch player through adversity.
"Nicknack, I'm in a shoe in space, on my computer, in my house, with a cup of coffee, in't that something." - Fly Safe PopPaddi. o7
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Kai'au Charante
The Scope Gallente Federation
3
|
Posted - 2015.05.30 11:02:31 -
[9] - Quote
Yeah, I'm training skills for prospect, about a week away. I've been trying to use cloak trick, sometimes I get it to work, sometimes not. the time I died most recently, i was just trying to ferry a tristan out to my remote base for ratting. |
Delt0r Garsk
Shits N Giggles
365
|
Posted - 2015.05.30 12:02:08 -
[10] - Quote
Instalocking as in under one sec lock times can be, from a server perspective, instant. Remote sebo Lokis or dual sebo thrashers can have insane scan res (over 2000mm). Also where you are physically located makes quite a difference. My NZ friends find it hard to get pods out of instalocking gate camps. I also notice a bit of lag using wireless networking at home.
Avoiding camps works better than crashing them. But yea sometimes you just end up trying to get through one.
Death and Glory!
Well fun is also good.
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ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
571
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Posted - 2015.05.30 12:59:43 -
[11] - Quote
People who tell you that you should be able to get your pod out every time are lying. It's true with practice you should be able to get your pod out of almost every combat engagement in the game. However no where in Eve and under no circumstances are you ever 100% safe. Gate camps are a special situation where people are set up to quickly lock players. With remote sensor boosters they can nearly insta lock you so there is a risk. You can get past most gate camps with your pod just not all. Your best bet is to avoid them all together and use intel gathering tools like has been mentioned already.
I know that you didn't want to be lectured on trying to play an MMO solo but this is an MMO and in Eve friends are everything. Just because you are in a low pop time zone does not mean that you can not make friends nor that you can't join a corp. Irregular play times also don't exclude you from playing with friends.
I personally have never used this approach but I'd bet that the best way to learn how to avoid getting caught by gate camps is to join a good gate camping group. My guess is that when you see how it works and who gets away and who does not you will have a better feel for it.
The gate camping group will always be at an advantage when getting your pod because they are already loaded on grid and you have to reload grid or something like that. I'm not sure exactly what happens server side but I seems to me that there is some kind of brief pause when you loose a ship. Maybe it's the notifications thing that has been mentioned already I'm uncertain but just avoiding gate camps altogether is what I think the solution is. I've not tried this either but maybe ejecting from your ship that you know you are going to loose anyway could help as you are adding some unexpected timing element that is out of the norm for the campers.
If you would like to move goods you can scout ahead on an alt in a free ship and a free clone. It's possible for trouble to show up in the time that you log back and forth but at least you can check for the gatecamps that are currently sitting there. If you really wanted to be able to move stuff safely you could have a second account and run two clients and have your scout run just barely in front of you. You could then train that second account up for something jump cappable like a black ops Battleship and fit out a Redeemer as a mini jump freighter. Or you could get friends and set up cynos for each other and help each other jump stuff around. Or you could pay a professional courier company to move the stuff for you.
TL;dr you are NEVER 100% safe in Eve and having friends is the answer to almost every problem that eve throws at you. |
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
571
|
Posted - 2015.05.30 13:06:07 -
[12] - Quote
another note that I forgot to mention is that remote sensor boosters don't seem to show up on kill mails so if you are looking to analyze the situation after the fact I know of no way to determine which or how many or what kind of boosters that they had. |
Praxis Ginimic
Best Kept Frozen. Meet The Bandits.
887
|
Posted - 2015.05.31 02:13:45 -
[13] - Quote
I think the best advice in this case might be to go around. Now that you know where the locals camp and who they are just put them on a watch list. If they are online then go the long way. |
Trevor Dalech
We pooped on your lawn Resonance.
105
|
Posted - 2015.05.31 05:25:28 -
[14] - Quote
Kai'au Charante wrote: I was literally clicking the button from before my frigate got destroyed and they locked me nearly instantly.
I would advise using a keyboard shortcut, not clicking. In my experience, using the mouse tends to be a slight bit slower for some reason. Using the warp to keyboard short cut, S on default I believe, I've never gotten podded in low (excepting lag, alcohol, lack of sleep, lack of coffee, the usual culprits...)
Aside from that... Soloing in low sec is perfectly possible. However, Intel is your life. I would advise learning the region well, know which gates are commonly camped and avoid them. Watchlist the frequent campers, so you know when they're online. Even if most of your activities are solo, it would really help joining a corp which is active in the region, so you can warn each other when a camp is up (and possibly scout if you're moving stuff)
It's also helpful to make a stash in a low sec system where you can store your loot and refit/reship if you're blocked from high sec. |
Cherri Minoa
Kongsberg Vaapenfabrikk Amarr branch. Sev3rance
59
|
Posted - 2015.05.31 07:56:08 -
[15] - Quote
It's a shame that you are losing your pod every time. If you are doing it right you should get your pod out most times, so you are getting a distorted view of the dangers involved.
There is some mystery about it all which is down to game mechanics, server ticks, pings, lag ... or as Terry Pratchett would say "it's all down to quantum". I actually live geographically close to the CCP servers, and yet I seem to suffer more than most from annoyances. On many occasions I manage to warp away from an enemy, only to get pointed and "dragged back" out of warp as the server decides that I got caught after all. Since my ping is very good I can only assume that the game runs some sort of code that is compensating (or over compensating) for the latency of the other guy.
On the other hand, I can never instalock anything small. I have used a double SEBO inty with an alt remote boosting, and even with a scan res of 5000+ I can't catch interceptors.
Sometimes you just have to shrug and work around it.
"If I had been censured every time I have run my ship, or fleets under my command, into great danger, I should have long ago been out of the Service" - Horatio Nelson
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El Miliciano
13th Reclaimation Fleet Aegis Militia
0
|
Posted - 2015.05.31 11:06:55 -
[16] - Quote
I usually use Warp Core Stabilizers to move on low, this way survavility goes higher, but... well, optimal range is reduced and so, but to move in low systems, they might target you, but if you've got enough cores, you can warp.
If the problem's the damage they do before you can even warp, them, erm, I don't know. |
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders Spaceship Bebop
3992
|
Posted - 2015.05.31 11:07:47 -
[17] - Quote
To improve chances of getting your pod out, I suggest to:
. Select a celestial (moons are the best, because some pro smartbombers will easily chase you to a planet) . Click 'align' once . Then start spamming warp
That's because if you spam warp while you're disrupted or scrammed, your ship will do absolutely nothing.
On the other hand, if you click 'align', it will align (= move towards the selected celestial). When your ship explodes, your pod gets 'spit out' in the direction your ship was moving before it popped.
So, the pod already being aligned should help in actually 'instawarping'.
PS. Remember to 'bounce' of the moon (= warp some other place) as soon as you exit warp, else you may get blapped by a POS! It takes a POS forever to lock a pod, so you have time. Just don't sit there!
Make space glamorous!
Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
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ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
576
|
Posted - 2015.05.31 13:35:55 -
[18] - Quote
Praxis Ginimic wrote:I think the best advice in this case might be to go around. Now that you know where the locals camp and who they are just put them on a watch list. If they are online then go the long way. This is really really good advice and not just this specifically. Getting to know the locals and the regulars and the occasionals is your best tool for operating in low or null safely. The more time that you spend in the area the more familiar you will get and eventually when you see certain people log on you'll know exactly where they are going to be and what they will be doing. Like everything else it's not fool proof but knowledge / intel is your best tool for accomplishing what you are talking about here.
You can also use out of game tools like Kill Boards to find out More info about characters and through keeping an eye on when and who logs on you can often even determine which characters are alts of the same person etc... With the KBs you can often determine where a particular toon likes to fly and what it like to fly and what it likes to do. |
Shiloh Templeton
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
318
|
Posted - 2015.05.31 18:48:37 -
[19] - Quote
If your connection has a lot of lag it's going to make it harder to warp off in time. You might want to see if you can reduce the lag by using a wired connection, etc. If you're in Australia, oh well.
But mainly, learn what systems to avoid as mentioned above. Learn backdoor routes, and make perches inside the gatecamp systems. |
Kai'au Charante
My Own Private Corp
3
|
Posted - 2015.06.01 08:48:59 -
[20] - Quote
This advice is helpful. There's all kind of people on the internet saying you should always be able to get out with your pod every time. Knowing that it's possible to lock in less than a server tick and knowing that sometimes there's just nothing you can do helps me plan my strategies better. |
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Ovv Topik
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
721
|
Posted - 2015.06.01 09:06:25 -
[21] - Quote
Kai'au Charante wrote:This advice is helpful. There's all kind of people on the internet saying you should always be able to get out with your pod every time. Knowing that it's possible to lock in less than a server tick and knowing that sometimes there's just nothing you can do helps me plan my strategies better. You have to gimp your fit to lock that fast. Usually at the expence of any tank whatsoever. If an Sebo'd Arty Thrasher warped in on your Frig in a plex for instance, and you orbited him at 500 he would pop pretty fast.
The point about 'Nearly Always' getting your pod out, applies to when your ship explodes in Versus a standard PvP fit.
They sometimes camp Plex gates as well BTW, so always set your 'Warp to' distance to 10km and spam 'Activate' on the gate as you land.
"Nicknack, I'm in a shoe in space, on my computer, in my house, with a cup of coffee, in't that something." - Fly Safe PopPaddi. o7
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Cellini Benvenuto
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
16
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Posted - 2015.06.02 19:00:25 -
[22] - Quote
Fellow newbie here (well, mostly! - closing in fast on 3+ months now - yeah!)
I moved to low pretty early because it was great fun. It is still great fun (albeit my new activity of exploration isn't really catered to in low as relic sites are rare and combat sites are not doable in my retribution). I play solo (mostly because of time constraints and voice-comm constraints). It is certainly possible to play solo and it is actually a lot of fun. Sure, now and then you get killed and podded (I think of my pod as another ship and follow the same rule: don't fly what you can't afford to lose). Isks are pretty decent in low (for my requirements anyway) and even simple belt hunting can be a lot of fun because you are constantly clicking d-scan, getting into fights, running, finding new holes, hunting for clone soldiers and what not.
My advice:
1. Gates to high sec are camped at peak hours mostly. I've found it much safer when taking loot to sell to avoid peak hours. Also frigate-transports work like a charm and I usually end up running through half the gate camps I encounter in my Magnate built for cargo. But if you live in low-sec, it is always better to stay in low-sec unless you really need something from hi-sec. Gates to null are also camped - but then there are wormholes.
2. Establish a base - I did it the hard way (flying ships in one by one because at that time I didn't have the skills to do anything else - but a quick run with an industrial can do the trick too). Get to know your system and neighbouring systems. I've gotten to know quite a few regulars and even playing solo, it is fun to interact with them and play little games. Having a base with your containers with your favourite fittings etc saves a lot of time and effort and you end up not minding losing so much.
3. Keep implants/ship fitting to what you can make in a day or 2. That way, you won't have to worry about losing your pod - it will happen one day or another even if you are good.
4. Start spamming "S" key when your armor is half way through and you know you'll lose the fight. It will save you more than half the time. Don't sit still afterwards. Move from one warp spot to another quickly and towards your safe spot.
5. Multiple safe spots are a must in your home systems - and that includes gate spots (200 KM from the gate) so that you can see which gate might be camped.
6. Have a lot of fun - otherwise it just isn't worth it! And again, in my opinion, low (and null) are way, way more fun than hi even as a solo player.
Hope it helped. |
Sabriz Adoudel
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
5130
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 05:42:18 -
[23] - Quote
ergherhdfgh wrote:People who tell you that you should be able to get your pod out every time are lying. It's true with practice you should be able to get your pod out of almost every combat engagement in the game. However no where in Eve and under no circumstances are you ever 100% safe. Gate camps are a special situation where people are set up to quickly lock players. With remote sensor boosters they can nearly insta lock you so there is a risk. You can get past most gate camps with your pod just not all. Your best bet is to avoid them all together and use intel gathering tools like has been mentioned already.
I know that you didn't want to be lectured on trying to play an MMO solo but this is an MMO and in Eve friends are everything. Just because you are in a low pop time zone does not mean that you can not make friends nor that you can't join a corp. Irregular play times also don't exclude you from playing with friends.
I personally have never used this approach but I'd bet that the best way to learn how to avoid getting caught by gate camps is to join a good gate camping group. My guess is that when you see how it works and who gets away and who does not you will have a better feel for it.
The gate camping group will always be at an advantage when getting your pod because they are already loaded on grid and you have to reload grid or something like that. I'm not sure exactly what happens server side but I seems to me that there is some kind of brief pause when you loose a ship. Maybe it's the notifications thing that has been mentioned already I'm uncertain but just avoiding gate camps altogether is what I think the solution is. I've not tried this either but maybe ejecting from your ship that you know you are going to loose anyway could help as you are adding some unexpected timing element that is out of the norm for the campers.
If you would like to move goods you can scout ahead on an alt in a free ship and a free clone. It's possible for trouble to show up in the time that you log back and forth but at least you can check for the gatecamps that are currently sitting there. If you really wanted to be able to move stuff safely you could have a second account and run two clients and have your scout run just barely in front of you. You could then train that second account up for something jump cappable like a black ops Battleship and fit out a Redeemer as a mini jump freighter. Or you could get friends and set up cynos for each other and help each other jump stuff around. Or you could pay a professional courier company to move the stuff for you.
TL;dr you are NEVER 100% safe in Eve and having friends is the answer to almost every problem that eve throws at you.
This is wrong.
Assuming your connection is reasonable (<500ms latency and no intermittent disconnects), you can always get your pod off grid when you lose your ship in lowsec, *except* if a smartbomb goes off on the very next server tick.
Assuming an instalocking Phobos with scan resolution buffed to 3600mm by remote sensor boosters (800 millisecond lock time on a pod) is trying to kill you, here's how it goes down - in this example you have 300ms latency and the Phobos pilot has 5ms.
27 min 31 sec past the hour: Phobos attempts to lock you. You attempt to align out in your Iteron (14 second align time) 27:32 - Phobos acquires target lock. Phobos pilot tells their client 'activate guns and warp scrambler' 27:32.005 - Phobos pilot's commands reach the server. They will happen next 'tick'. 27:33 - Server actions the Phobos pilot's commands. Your ship is warp scrambled and shot at. You take a few volleys to die. 27:46 - Your Iteron becomes aligned and tries to warp off. Fails due to warp scrambler. 27:52 - Your Iteron is in deep structure. You select a planet and start pressing 'warp to' every second. 27:55 - Your Iteron explodes. On this server tick, the server removes your Iteron from the grid and places your pod stationary. You and the Phobos pilot both react - you by continuing to mash 'warp out', them by attempting to acquire a target lock. 27:56 - The Phobos pilot's command to lock you initiates and will complete before the 27:57 tick. However, you are already aligned, and you disappear from grid.
The Phobos's only option to kill you is to activate a smartbomb (not just one; enough to volley a pod which IIRC is 4 medium smartbombs) between the 27:55 and 27:56 ticks, in which case you will be podded.
Shoot everyone. Let the Saviour sort it out.
I enforce the New Haliama Code of Conduct via wardec ops. Ignorance of the law is no excuse - read about requirements for highsec miners at www.minerbumping.com
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Traejun DiSanctis
Astro Technologies SpaceMonkey's Alliance
148
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Posted - 2015.06.03 06:06:27 -
[24] - Quote
Warp Core Stabilizers. That is all. |
Kai'au Charante
My Own Private Corp
3
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Posted - 2015.06.03 06:57:29 -
[25] - Quote
Traejun DiSanctis wrote:Warp Core Stabilizers. That is all.
I sometimes fly a Venture with +2 warp strength native and an additional stabilizer fitted. As far as I know, it's never saved me. I assume campers use two modules. When I'm wormhole ninja gas mining and someone randomly drops out of warp next to me, I can get away pretty much every time. When I'm gate camped, not so much. |
Syrilian
Ascending Angels Two Drink Minimum
102
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 18:54:33 -
[26] - Quote
Ro Fenrios wrote:- Using starmap and checking statistics, especially "ships destroyed in last 1h" will help you predict if the low sec system you are heading to might have gatecamp. Few kills might be fine, but if the system has higher number of kills per hour, might want to avoid it.
This is the best advice regarding gatecamps. Really the best thing you can do about them is to avoid them. |
Baneken
Arctic Light Inc. Arctic Light
513
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Posted - 2015.06.04 07:37:08 -
[27] - Quote
In general if you start spamming warp to on a celestial when locked your should get your egg to safety in any situation barring warp bubbles.
Failing that I highly recommend on using a prospect instead of venture that cov ops cloak and 10m3 cargo hold are golden, not to mention that a prospect can beat most tackle frigates in shear speed alone mine has a top speed of 3500m/s (5000m/s if you burn it). |
Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
9862
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 08:26:04 -
[28] - Quote
Kai'au Charante wrote:Traejun DiSanctis wrote:Warp Core Stabilizers. That is all. I sometimes fly a Venture with +2 warp strength native and an additional stabilizer fitted. As far as I know, it's never saved me. I assume campers use two modules. When I'm wormhole ninja gas mining and someone randomly drops out of warp next to me, I can get away pretty much every time. When I'm gate camped, not so much. Actually I generally don't even bother pointing ventures, they're made of wet tissue paper so I just say mean things about them when I land on grid and they explode.
=]|[=
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Lord Chumly
Hedion University Amarr Empire
1
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Posted - 2015.06.04 09:22:51 -
[29] - Quote
There are two ways to avoid destruction at low sec gate camps:
1. Fit a cov ops cloaking device if your ship can use it. After initiating warp, activate cloaking device and they'll never even see you.
2. For ships that cannot use cov ops cloaking, fit one damage control and fill the rest of your low slots with warp core stabilizers (the cheapest ones possible). Activate damage control then warp. There's no guarantee you'll escape by this method. If there are multiple ships trying to warp scramble you they could overpower your warp core stabilizers, but I've found it to be effective for most gate camps.
Also, for #2 you may want to carry a mobile depot in your cargo bay along with the modules you'll need to complete your objective. That way you don't have to dock in a station to swap out the WCS's after you've escaped the gate camp.
By the way, the same tactics apply to Null Sec, although there is the added complexity of avoiding mobile warp disruptors (drag bubbles) which require plotting and bookmarking safe spots along your route. |
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1434
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 14:40:05 -
[30] - Quote
Even with covops:
-> warp -> cloak -> MWD
Some people are very good at getting to the place you cloaked - the extra few thousand metres away from your cloak point can make a world of difference |
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