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Captain Raynor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.11.17 09:26:00 -
[151]
Originally by: Aramendel
Originally by: Captain Raynor Omen to Harbinger is an incredible leap in power, Caracal to Drake? LOL.
This might be because the Omen is far far far far....far far far worse the the Caracal
Perhaps, and the Drake is far far far far ..... far far far worse than the Harbinger.
Omens issue is mostly with fittings, is it not?
Quote:
Daniel Jackson > a harbinger cant be a raven cause its not caldari Daniel Jackson > and its not a missle ship Jim Raynor > thank you for that expert analysis DJ
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Risien Drogonne
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Posted - 2006.11.17 09:26:00 -
[152]
Originally by: Captain Raynor i'd rather fit rigs that added rof and dmg so i could actually kill someone instead of circle jerking to shield hp
Maybe that has something to do with why my drake killed everything and yours didn't.
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Captain Raynor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.11.17 09:29:00 -
[153]
Originally by: Risien Drogonne
Originally by: Captain Raynor i'd rather fit rigs that added rof and dmg so i could actually kill someone instead of circle jerking to shield hp
Maybe that has something to do with why my drake killed everything and yours didn't.
maybe it has something to do with the fact i dont live in a land of make believe where my sisi ep33n look at me im so uber with my stupid can't chase down and catch, scramble, web or be even be remotely mobile setup actually works on tranquility where the real pvp is
i'm so glad you fit a bunch of extenders on a drake and had such a great time watching people take forever to kill you while doing 150dps, you are the caldari master /bow
seriously, get bent
Quote:
Daniel Jackson > a harbinger cant be a raven cause its not caldari Daniel Jackson > and its not a missle ship Jim Raynor > thank you for that expert analysis DJ
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Risien Drogonne
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Posted - 2006.11.17 09:32:00 -
[154]
Originally by: Captain Raynor
Originally by: Risien Drogonne
Originally by: Captain Raynor i'd rather fit rigs that added rof and dmg so i could actually kill someone instead of circle jerking to shield hp
Maybe that has something to do with why my drake killed everything and yours didn't.
maybe it has something to do with the fact i dont live in a land of make believe where my sisi ep33n look at me im so uber with my stupid can't chase down and catch, scramble, web or be even be remotely mobile setup actually works on tranquility where the real pvp is
i'm so glad you fit a bunch of extenders on a drake and had such a great time watching people take forever to kill you while doing 150dps, you are the caldari master /bow
seriously, get bent
Try 400 DPS and I had a 20k scrambler fitted. You keep trying to skew this example through exaggeration and it ain't working.
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Azerrad InExile
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Posted - 2006.11.17 09:32:00 -
[155]
Originally by: Captain Raynor my stupid can't chase down and catch, scramble, web or be even be remotely mobile setup actually works on tranquility where the real pvp is
MWD WEB SCRAM SHIELD BOOSTER INVULNERABILITY FIELD INVULNERABILITY FIELD
DAMAGE CONTROL
Is that so hard Jimmy boy?
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NeoOhm
Caldari FATAL REVELATIONS Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.11.17 09:34:00 -
[156]
Edited by: NeoOhm on 17/11/2006 09:36:23 CCP, plz dont fu*k up one more Caldari ship. Im all out caldari/missiles and i realy thinking of just retrain all my **** weaponskills cause of the stinky bonuses and selection of Caldari ships.
Like the Hawk for example, i was glad when i hear it would be a missile ship, then when we finaly got it it was a disaster. And now, what do we have left.. The cerb and the Raven (but u cant just leave it alone can u, noo we nerf this one to). I want more missile ships for Caldari, more variation and better bonuses. Kinetic bonus is just lame. The drake is not to good if u do -1 launcher. Keep it like that and dont reduce rof. Better to add some **** to the other races ships instead, like a bonus to tractorbeams or something. :)
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Captain Raynor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.11.17 09:35:00 -
[157]
Originally by: Azerrad InExile
Originally by: Captain Raynor my stupid can't chase down and catch, scramble, web or be even be remotely mobile setup actually works on tranquility where the real pvp is
MWD WEB SCRAM SHIELD BOOSTER INVULNERABILITY FIELD INVULNERABILITY FIELD
DAMAGE CONTROL
Is that so hard Jimmy boy?
EVER TRY FITTING ALL THAT AND YOU WILL RUN OUT OF CAP IN FIFTEEN SECONDS TRY FITTING THE SHIP BEFORE GIVING SETUPS THANKS
Quote:
Daniel Jackson > a harbinger cant be a raven cause its not caldari Daniel Jackson > and its not a missle ship Jim Raynor > thank you for that expert analysis DJ
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Azerrad InExile
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Posted - 2006.11.17 09:38:00 -
[158]
Originally by: Captain Raynor RUN OUT OF CAP
Ever hear of NOS and PDUs Jimmy boy? How about trade offs?
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Captain Raynor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.11.17 09:40:00 -
[159]
Originally by: Azerrad InExile
Originally by: Captain Raynor RUN OUT OF CAP
Ever hear of NOS and PDUs Jimmy boy? How about trade offs?
ever look at the drakes grid? good luck fitting mwd and med nos on there with ham IIs, also good luck with cap, it will die fast, real fast you probably need injector, which also doesnt fit, good luck with shield tanking with 2 slots
Quote:
Daniel Jackson > a harbinger cant be a raven cause its not caldari Daniel Jackson > and its not a missle ship Jim Raynor > thank you for that expert analysis DJ
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Risien Drogonne
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Posted - 2006.11.17 09:43:00 -
[160]
Originally by: Captain Raynor
ever look at the drakes grid? good luck fitting mwd and med nos on there with ham IIs, also good luck with cap, it will die fast, real fast you probably need injector, which also doesnt fit, good luck with shield tanking with 2 slots
5 slots. You keep forgetting rigs.
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Azerrad InExile
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Posted - 2006.11.17 09:44:00 -
[161]
Edited by: Azerrad InExile on 17/11/2006 09:45:18
Originally by: Captain Raynor ever look at the drakes grid? good luck fitting mwd and med nos on there with ham IIs, also good luck with cap, it will die fast, real fast you probably need injector, which also doesnt fit, good luck with shield tanking with 2 slots
Guess thats a NO on ever hearing about trade offs eh. How about webber drones? That will get you your extra mid you so desperately claim to need while still webbing your target.
You aren't going to get a ship that can do everything perfectly, no one is. Once you accept that maybe you can stop trying to fit a 6 slot shield tank along with MWD/WEB/SCRAM, a damage control, 3 BCUs and 4 PDUs, because guess what Jimmy boy, it isn't going to happen no matter how much you want it to.
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Dred'Pirate Jesus
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2006.11.17 10:05:00 -
[162]
WTF?! The Drake got nerfed?
Well crippity crap.. KALI:Revelations.. Putting the Waaaa back in Piwat.. |
Captain Raynor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.11.17 10:05:00 -
[163]
Originally by: Azerrad InExile Edited by: Azerrad InExile on 17/11/2006 09:45:18
Originally by: Captain Raynor ever look at the drakes grid? good luck fitting mwd and med nos on there with ham IIs, also good luck with cap, it will die fast, real fast you probably need injector, which also doesnt fit, good luck with shield tanking with 2 slots
Guess thats a NO on ever hearing about trade offs eh. How about webber drones? That will get you your extra mid you so desperately claim to need while still webbing your target.
You aren't going to get a ship that can do everything perfectly, no one is. Once you accept that maybe you can stop trying to fit a 6 slot shield tank along with MWD/WEB/SCRAM, a damage control, 3 BCUs and 4 PDUs, because guess what Jimmy boy, it isn't going to happen no matter how much you want it to.
do you get off on calling me "jimmy boy" or something? its kinda *****, cease and desist k?
anyways, if you fit mwd/scram/web even with 2 pdu II fitted, you can't fit even a small nos, and this is with AWU5
no injector, no nos, no cap period, you are not going to survive in pvp
not to mention rage heavy assaults make your cap recharge even worse... ya good luck shield tanking folks -27.5% cap recharge per launcher.. so yes a drake needs an injector too, ok this ship is flat out broke sorry.
Quote:
Daniel Jackson > a harbinger cant be a raven cause its not caldari Daniel Jackson > and its not a missle ship Jim Raynor > thank you for that expert analysis DJ
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Logan Xerxes
Shinra Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.11.17 10:09:00 -
[164]
I repeat. And i'm in full agreement with Raynor here.
Kali ships worth flying left: Harbinger, Rokh. Only 2 left tux, you can make it! |
Protunia
Gallente Horadrim
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Posted - 2006.11.17 10:11:00 -
[165]
you could always change the name to the rake instead ;) My Character Stats |
Ultimate Poison
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Posted - 2006.11.17 10:12:00 -
[166]
Originally by: Captain Raynor Hey at least we have the Raven, thank god because it's the only freaking good Caldari ship pretty much for general pvp combat usage.
It's obvious you have never done any serious PVP.
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Azerrad InExile
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Posted - 2006.11.17 10:17:00 -
[167]
Originally by: Captain Raynor do you get off on calling me "jimmy boy" or something? its kinda *****, cease and desist k?
anyways, if you fit mwd/scram/web even with 2 pdu II fitted, you can't fit even a small nos, and this is with AWU5
no injector, no nos, no cap period, you are not going to survive in pvp
not to mention rage heavy assaults make your cap recharge even worse... ya good luck shield tanking folks -27.5% cap recharge per launcher.. so yes a drake needs an injector too, ok this ship is flat out broke sorry.
3 PDUs? RCU? Gank or tank? Shield tanks aren't meant to run permanently and you probably aren't best served by trying to make them do so? Smaller shield booster? Afterburner? Use T1 ammo? Fit different launchers?
Again, TRADE OFFS.
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Vladimir Tinakin
Caldari Hadean Drive Yards
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Posted - 2006.11.17 10:31:00 -
[168]
If you have to fill the lows with grid buffs to fit the ship, you remove the possibility of adding damage buffs like BCUs--on a missile ship. You lose flexibility.
As for the "trade offs" mentioned, if you have to change the launcher type you change a LOT--HAMs are meant for close in, high(er) DPS combat. Heavy launchers (the only other real alternative) are way too slow to fire, and you don't really save that much grid with them anyway....so you're better off staying 60+km away so you can at least try to run. But then you can't web or scramble, so the ship becomes useless at PvP.
Oh, and even with lows racked with PDS units, you'll still blow your cap wad in about 20-30 seconds. After the cap boost.
Sacrificing lows to grid buffs would be a LOT more palatable if the ship got a decent RoF buff. Without that or the ability to fit BCUs and you get marginal PvE--and since the Ferox tanks a helluva lot better now, its not even good for that.
----------------------------------------------- Vice Adm Vladimir Tinakin Logistics CO Hadean Drive Yards |
Aki Yamato
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Posted - 2006.11.17 10:46:00 -
[169]
I still cant belive in such devastating nerf to drake, mainy becose it based on fact avery HAM user has maxed skill and fact HAMa are now universal all killing missile platform, but hello there is still normal heavy missiles rigt ?
Simply fix that HAMs have both longest range amd highest DPS at short range. And add minimal range for missiles.
After fixing HAMs you can return RoF bonus to drake.
Drake is not problem HAMs are !
BIG GUN BIG FUTURE |
Yoshimako
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Posted - 2006.11.17 11:00:00 -
[170]
First off, sorry i havent read all the replies.. Second, This is my opinion, others may have already said the same.
Right Why the drake got nerfed.. easy.
You wanted a gank ship. Great good for you. They gave you a tank and gank ship.
In its origional form it was vastly over powered. Good damage and a tank to cream over. so they reduced the damage o your gank ship... DOH!
Now it is just a tank ship, and a bloody good one.
6xHAM2's
3xinvul 2's 3xLSE 2's
1xBCU 2xPDU 1xSPR (any combo, this is what i tried)
21101 Shield hp's and about 60-70 HP/S regen at peak. resists were around 63% em all the rest were 70-80% That is sick. give that good damage and tell me that isnt overpowered.
Some of you will say "good luck nailing someone down without a scram, Blah Blah Blah" Use tacklers, theres more then just 1v1.
Now, you cannot tell me they didn't balance the ship with this nerf, they did. BUT they did it the wrong way.
You wanted a Gank ship. They gave you a Tank ship.
Thats all that needs to be change. But dont ask me how
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.11.17 11:18:00 -
[171]
Originally by: Ultimate Poison
Originally by: Captain Raynor Hey at least we have the Raven, thank god because it's the only freaking good Caldari ship pretty much for general pvp combat usage.
It's obvious you have never done any serious PVP.
Ravens and crows are about the only ships I see in PvP from the caldari portfolio. Certainly they were the only ones which were much cop for solo/pair combat. And sometimes scorpions and BBs in fleet combat.
For all those complaining about relative pricing, have a look some time how much it _actually_ costs to build a cerb. You'll find it's pretty comparable to a tier 2 BC :).
Now I _was_ expecting a nerf bat to be applied to the Drake and Hurricane. The were overpowered. Unfortunately I _really_ think this is too far in the other direction. Losing a launcher is fine, after all the Raven only gets 6.
But _please_ reconsider the kinetic damage bonus. (And on the Caracal and Kestrel too whilst you're at it).
I dislike it because it just makes no sense that one type of ammo 'just does' more damage than another. And yes, this goes for drones and EM missile damage bonuses too.
5% RoF is what made the Drake a ship I was actually thinking of training up. Not the resists. Not the 7 launchers. And not the cool model (although that helped too).
Hell, 5 launcher slots (like the ferox ) and a RoF bonus would be preferable to 6 + kinetic bonus.
Oh well, BC 5 was calling me, and tempting me away from my dread/interdictor training. Not a problem any more ;)
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Pfrundpaechter
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Posted - 2006.11.17 11:37:00 -
[172]
<whine> i heavily anticipated the Drake as it was the first t1 caldari non-battleship, that could effectivily use missiles (6bays with RoF bonus would have been still great), and even be affordable to replace for pvp combat.
now you killed it before it was even released caracal = handkerchief cerb = rather useless kin dmg bonus, helluva price ferox = lol, but ok, its a turretship raven is still a semi decent missile user. and its affordable nighthawk is probably the best missile user out there with the new bonus (which is RoF, but again with crap dmg bonus), but requires big balls to be taken into pvp combat.
now we will just have another great tanking battlecruisers for gang mining in 0.0 :(
i wonder if i should stick with the raven and enhance it with more level5 skills missilewise (risking that you would nerf my cruise msls too, anytime), or learn teh turrets and play the game the hard way :) </whine>
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Crellion
Art of War Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2006.11.17 11:39:00 -
[173]
Originally by: Ishmael Hansen
Originally by: Viktor Fyretracker i guess the HAC owners union got its way.
Word
Thx CCP
I really, really, really hope invention will work.
exactly and thats all there is to it Arguably my opinions represent to an extent the opinions of my alliance and in particular circumstances give rise to a valid "casus belli" claim. |
Aramendel
Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2006.11.17 11:45:00 -
[174]
Originally by: Captain Raynor Perhaps, and the Drake is far far far far ..... far far far worse than the Harbinger.
Omens issue is mostly with fittings, is it not?
Fittings are a big part of it, but it's not only that. Let's say just imagine the caracal with 4 launchers and, should it want to fit 4 heavy missile launchers, only being able to fit a frigate sized tank. And, of cource, not being able to fit any EW modules to make up for this.
And, while I agree that changing the ROF bonus was a bit too much the drake is still not *that* bad - it has compared to the other BCs an insane tank. Personally I would give it back it's ROF bonus, but nerf it's shield recharge *significantly* so it won't be able to mount the passive shieldtank of doomÖ as it can ATM.
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Svavz
Gallente Reikoku Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.11.17 11:54:00 -
[175]
didnt do much dmg? lol i was doing 200 every second.... and i have crap extra missile skills like bombardment and that Biggest black and death metal fan in iceland |
Sean Dillon
Caldari Snakes in a Pod
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Posted - 2006.11.17 11:56:00 -
[176]
I pvped a 1 on 1 battle with a myriodon BC. I could NOT go trough his armour. I had 22k shield 2 t2 invull fields. By the time he went through my shields, and that took him alot of time, his armour was still barely scrathed.
The drake as it is now absolutely SUCKS for pvp. For pvE it has an awesome tank, but I would rather see the drake as a better PVP ship as the ferox is already good enough to PvE in.
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Uggster
Caldari Never'where
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Posted - 2006.11.17 12:04:00 -
[177]
Caldari ships have always sucked at PvE, look at the Raven for example; you almost never see them ratting.
At least now we will be able to go out and earn enough money for a crust or 2.
YAY to the new caldari PvE baby
_______________________________________________
Sig removed as inappropriate- Tirg
Story of my life that one :( |
James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.11.17 12:24:00 -
[178]
Originally by: Uggster Caldari ships have always sucked at PvE, look at the Raven for example; you almost never see them ratting.
At least now we will be able to go out and earn enough money for a crust or 2.
YAY to the new caldari PvE baby
Agreed, I was really getting annoyed at all these other races with their great PvE ships, and thinking to myself that Caldari clearly have so many good solo PvP options that what they could _really_ do with is a PvE boat, just a bit down from battleships. I mean kinetic damage is just so totally awesome, I can pwn guristas all day with it.
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Thecle Vifargent
GandY Inc.
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Posted - 2006.11.17 12:30:00 -
[179]
Originally by: James Lyrus
Originally by: Uggster Caldari ships have always sucked at PvE, look at the Raven for example; you almost never see them ratting. At least now we will be able to go out and earn enough money for a crust or 2. YAY to the new caldari PvE baby
Agreed, I was really getting annoyed at all these other races with their great PvE ships, and thinking to myself that Caldari clearly have so many good solo PvP options that what they could _really_ do with is a PvE boat, just a bit down from battleships. I mean kinetic damage is just so totally awesome, I can pwn guristas all day with it.
QFT : I was affraid we finally got a PVP ship But i am now happy to have nothing else than good old PVE ship with the drake, so i wont spend time trying to solo a bit or doing fool things like does every PVP pilots ! Yarr ! thanks ccp for this new carebear overpowered ship I can return missionning quietly.
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Aki Yamato
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Posted - 2006.11.17 12:37:00 -
[180]
Quote: Now it is just a tank ship, and a bloody good one.
6xHAM2's
3xinvul 2's 3xLSE 2's
1xBCU 2xPDU 1xSPR
Do you realize that with this setup witch T2 ammo loaded capacitor drops constantly to zero or yor speed is reduced by 30%
Sorry if it is already reported bug.
BIG GUN BIG FUTURE |
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