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Aeaus
Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2006.11.09 00:51:00 -
[1]
IÆm having a good laugh at all these Amarr Whines. I humbly believe that it is time for my fellow Amarr pilots to stop flaming and offer a full thread dedicated to the imbalances found. Obviously every class of ship is huge and going over everything is nigh impossible.
First of all letÆs have a quite primer about mid-long range combat battleships. The Amarr have two (three come kali), the Apocalypse and the Armageddon. The Minmatar have one (two come kali), the Tempest. The Gallente have one, the Megathron.
The first problem is clear, the Amarr have up to three times the specialized gunboats as other races do. Now, I will be the first to say that we are quite tired of this tired old trend. Amarr need versatility within this department.
Now letÆs look at the guns that these ships have to put up with, the ônormalizedö guns is the amount of firepower the ship has after the bonuses are calculated. This brings us to a problem. The Tachyon Beam Laser II is a ôsuper-gun,ö while all the other races have two tiers of battleship guns the Amarr have three, this seems unbalancing to me, Amarr are more turret centralized but the problem is that these ôsuper-gunsö are quite hard to fit on a decent setup. (If you would like to compare these results with the tachyon simply multiply by its added damage, 8.75%)
Dual Heavy Beam û 1200mm Howitzer û 350mm Railgun Mega Beam û 1400mm Howitzer û 425mm Railgun Tachyon û nothing û nothing
I will use the medium tier for comparison with this.
Apocalypse = 8 Guns Normalized [Mega Beam Laser II] Armageddon = 9.33 Guns Normalized [Mega Beam Laser II] Megathron = 8.75 Guns Normalized [425mm Railgun II] Tempest = 10 Guns Normalized [1400mm Howitzer II]
Which further applied to the default (skill-less) damage means the following modifier (modifier * guns / ROF)
Apocalypse = 3.2 Armageddon = 3.732 Megathron = 3.02 Tempest = 2.92
Armageddon > Apocalypse > Megathron > Tempest
Now letÆs look at the tracking involvedà
Apocalypse = 0.0153125 rad/sec Armageddon = 0.0153125 rad/sec Megathron = 0.0132343 rad/sec Tempest = 0.009 rad/sec
Apocalypse = Armageddon > Megathron > Tempest
Now letÆs look at the ranges involvedà
Apocalypse = 48KM Armageddon = 48KM Megathron = 57KM Tempest = 48KM
Megathron > Apocalypse = Armageddon = Tempest
Now letÆs look at the percentage of CPU and PW (maximum skills) all guns need as a factor of the ships total CPU and PW. (Lower is Better)
Apocalypse = 55.7% CPU + 105.6% PW Armageddon = 54.13% CPU + 109.2% PW Megathron = 58.8% CPU + 85.4% PW Tempest = 31.4% CPU + 99.6% PW
Okay, let me bring up this tired whine. The Megathron has the potential to fit all its guns without utilizing extra slots, the Tempest can but arguably uses up too much of itÆs PW and thus needs a fitting module. The Amarr however are quite boned in this department, we canÆt even fit our ships with a full rack of guns without resorting to fitting modules. This is however balanced out by that our initial DPS is high enough above other races to find this as acceptable.
The problems begin when we look at how much capacitor is required to sustain our weapons. This assumes maximum controlled bursts, maximum related gun skills and no modules but the guns.
Apocalypse = 30.09 cap/sec [Ship Recharge = 25.97 cap/sec] [Net = -4.12 cap/sec] Armageddon = 35.10 cap/sec [Ship Recharge = 19.54 cap/sec] [Net = -15.56 cap/sec] Megathron = 22.88 cap/sec [Ship Recharge = 19.48 cap/sec] [Net = -3.4 cap/sec] Tempest = 0 cap/sec [Ship Recharge = 18.4 cap/sec] [Net = 18.4 cap/sec]
Thus when firing guns at the optimal capacitor recharge we get the following trend of the tempest simply blowing everything out of the water, the Megathron following and then the Amarr being significantly lacking capacitor, especially with the Armageddon.
Last Weeks Signature |
Aeaus
Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2006.11.09 00:52:00 -
[2]
Now we may not have to use ammo, but crystals are our ammo, in fact every multifrequency crystal is roughly worth 3,000 units of Antimatter Charge L. Keep in mind that we need a crystal for every gun, this quickly makes the ammo is use quite expensive, we have to hold around 2M of isk per crystal set for all the different types of ammo we need. And when you look at falloff the Amarr definitely lose, and have to switch crystals out to maintain range.
Mega Beam Laser II = 20KM Falloff 425mm Railgun II = 30KM Falloff 1400mm Howitzer II = 43.75 Falloff
Now, letÆs look at this objectivelyà
Mega Beam Laser IIs do nice initial DPS, they have the best tracking, however they share lowest optimal with the tempest, have the worst capacitor drain (with and without taking ship recharge into account) and require the most resources to fit, while at the same time having vastly lower fall-off then the other two sniper weapons. Amarr can switch ammo types instantly but are dependant on doing so, and have to carry a lot of ISK in ammo unlike other races. Notably, while Amarr can modify their capacitor usage with different crystals, doing so reduces their damage.
Proposal #1 û Make Tech I Crystals consumable just like Tech II ammo. Make them last for roughly 250-1000 shots each. In doing so increase the Mega Beam Laser II (and other tiers in the same manner) to be in line with the Howitzer II for falloff. I would support a 20-30% reduction in the capacitor usage of the weapon as this would bring the capacitor usage down closer to the Megathron, however the Megathron would have the advantage of vastly more optimal range and easy fitting requirements. The Tempest would have the advantage of no capacitor usage, which could be diverted to other tasks, as well as highest alpha strike, etc.
Now, IÆm not saying this proposal is right, but IÆve provided the factual data and my opinions on why these are issues.
The second major problem with Amarr is their damage against hardened targets. Amarr may have the highest DPS outright but the way that resists work out, Amarr donÆt necessary have this advantage.
Unhardened (Structure) [Low Range / High Damage TI Ammo] Apocalypse = 306.7 DPS Armageddon = 357.8 DPS Megathron = 318.3 DPS Tempest = 282.2 DPS
Unhardened (Structure) [Long Range / Low Damage T2 Ammo] Apocalypse = 230 DPS Armageddon = 268.3 DPS Megathron = 238.7 DPS Tempest = 230.1 DPS
Hardened Shield = (2 x Invulnerability Field II + Emergency Damage Control) (52.65/81.06/71.59/62.12)
Hardened Shield [Low Range / High Damage TI Ammo]
Apocalypse = 133.1 Armageddon = 155.3 Megathron = 103.0 Tempest = 94.8
Hardened Shield [Long Range / Low Damage T2 Ammo]
Apocalypse = 101.7 Armageddon = 118.6 Megathron = 80.4 Tempest = 53.5
Hardened Armor = (2 x EANM IIs + Emergency Damage Control) (84.33/52.98/60.82/66.04)
Hardened Armor [Low Range / High Damage TI Ammo]
Apocalypse = 71.4 Armageddon = 83.3 Megathron = 119.0 Tempest = 88.7
Hardened Armor [Long Range / Low Damage T2 Ammo]
Apocalypse = 50.0 Armageddon = 58.4 Megathron = 87.3 Tempest = 101.2
Unhardened Shield [Low Range / High Damage TI Ammo] (0/60/40/20)
Apocalypse = 281.1 Armageddon = 328.0 Megathron = 217.5 Tempest = 200.1
Unhardened Shield [Long Range / Low Damage T2 Ammo] (0/60/40/20)
Apocalypse = 214.7 Armageddon = 250 Megathron = 169.8 Tempest = 112.9
Unhardened Armor [Low Range / High Damage T1 Ammo] (60/10/25/35)
Apocalypse = 154.6 Armageddon = 180.4 Megathron = 225.5 Tempest =182.158
Unhardened Armor [Long Range / Low Damage T2 Ammo] (60/10/25/35)
Apocalypse = 111.2 Armageddon = 130.0 Megathron = 165.8 Tempest = 192.4
Daunting, letÆs condense this information. The following will be details of time taken and average damage dealt to a target with a specific type. I assigned the value 5000 to every attribute.
Last Weeks Signature |
Aeaus
Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2006.11.09 00:53:00 -
[3]
Shield Tank [Long Range]
Apocalypse = 116 seconds / 129 DPS Armageddon = 99 seconds / 151 DPS Megathron = 113 seconds / 133 DPS Tempest = 141 seconds / 106.38 DPS
Armageddon > Megathron > Apocalypse > Tempest
Shield Tank [Short Range]
Apocalypse = 86 seconds / 174 DPS Armageddon = 74 seconds / 202 DPS Megathron = 86 seconds / 174 DPS Tempest = 96 seconds / 155 DPS
Armageddon > Apocalypse = Megathron > Tempest
Armor Tank [Long Range]
Apocalypse = 145 seconds / 103 DPS Armageddon = 124 seconds / 120 DPS Megathron = 107 seconds / 139 DPS Tempest = 115 seconds / 130 DPS
Megathron > Tempest > Armageddon > Apocalypse
Armor Tank [Short Range]
Apocalypse = 104 seconds / 144 DPS Armageddon = 89 seconds / 168 DPS Megathron = 80 seconds / 186 DPS Tempest = 118 seconds / 127 DPS
Megathron > Armageddon > Apocalypse > Tempest
Okay, a bit overwhelming at first, but there are actually two major issues here.
The Amarr will soon have THREE dedicated Gunships; we are supposed to be strong in the damage department when it comes to our guns. However the Megathron does 15.8% more damage at long range, 10.7% more damage at short range against armor tanks. While comparatively we do 16% more damage at long range, and 13.5% more damage at short range against shield tanks. This is an issue since ever since launch armor tanks have been about three times more prevalent. Very rarely in PvP will you go against a shield tanking battleship, the mid slots are simply too valuable to waste for that. Amarr need more damage to compete, lacking 15% may seem small, but when factored in with our lack of versatility among our other issues this suddenly becomes a serious problem that we must face.
ItÆs very interesting that a race whose primary weapons are blasters (Caldari are the hybrids) according to the ôoriginalö plan outdoes the ôgunshipö race while having guns that are extremely easy to fit, have an optimal, falloff, and capacitor use advantage.
Proposal #2 û This one is a very hard one to suggest, I donÆt think Amarr should have more base DPS to counter their poor damage types (Megathron is limited to two as well but is superior, and when the Rokh comes out it will do 91.4% of the Megathron DPS, but at greater range, still beating Amarr), this would be a bad idea. Instead IÆd rather see more homogeneity among the damage types. In doing so the Amarr BS DPS should be reduced to slightly above the Megathrons level. This would make all damage types viable, and would also allow the Tempest to more usable against shield tankers.
A little on Tier III Battleships With Kali right around the corner we will be getting three new sniping battleships. The Abaddon, the Maelstrom, and the Rokh. Now, Amarr already have two Gunships already. The Rokh will have around 10% lower damage then the Megathron but with 50% more range. The Maelstrom will have 6% more damage then the tempest, and the Abaddon will have 14.2% more damage then the Armageddon, while using 100% more capacitor, and a tanking bonus. I wonÆt get into the whole specifics, but let me just say that having YET ANNOTHER GUNSHIP with so much capacitor usage is not what is good for Amarr.
Last Weeks Signature |
Commander Thrawn
Tarnak inc. Eternal Empire
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Posted - 2006.11.09 01:07:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Aeaus Proposal #2 û This one is a very hard one to suggest, I donÆt think Amarr should have more base DPS to counter their poor damage types (Megathron is limited to two as well but is superior, and when the Rokh comes out it will do 91.4% of the Megathron DPS, but at greater range, still beating Amarr), this would be a bad idea. Instead IÆd rather see more homogeneity among the damage types. In doing so the Amarr BS DPS should be reduced to slightly above the Megathrons level. This would make all damage types viable, and would also allow the Tempest to more usable against shield tankers.
could you please clarify proposal 2 please?
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Aeaus
Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2006.11.09 01:08:00 -
[5]
I also thought I would include this.
Any shield tank that doesn't fit a Photon Scattering Field II is piloted by a silly pilot, considering shield tanks ultimately have more room then an armor tank (1 x Shield Booster > 2 x LARs, Damage Controls + Damage Modules in low slots). A pure shield tank will actually put the Armageddon and Apocalypse damage, with no pun intended, into the bronze age.
[Reserved]
Last Weeks Signature |
Aeaus
Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2006.11.09 01:11:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Aeaus on 09/11/2006 01:12:11 Edited by: Aeaus on 09/11/2006 01:11:27
Originally by: Commander Thrawn
Originally by: Aeaus Proposal #2 û This one is a very hard one to suggest, I donÆt think Amarr should have more base DPS to counter their poor damage types (Megathron is limited to two as well but is superior, and when the Rokh comes out it will do 91.4% of the Megathron DPS, but at greater range, still beating Amarr), this would be a bad idea. Instead IÆd rather see more homogeneity among the damage types. In doing so the Amarr BS DPS should be reduced to slightly above the Megathrons level. This would make all damage types viable, and would also allow the Tempest to more usable against shield tankers.
could you please clarify proposal 2 please?
Sure.
Instead of having shield go...
0 / 60 / 40 / 20
and armor go...
60 / 10 / 35 / 35
have it be more like...
25 / 35 / 30 / 30 (shield) 45 / 25 / 35 / 35 (armor)
Obviously these are not the final numbers I'm suggesting, but something similar to where damage is balanced.
Oh, and the Amarr DPS would need to be reduced along with this to being slightly higher then the megathron.
Last Weeks Signature |
Samirol
Ore Mongers
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Posted - 2006.11.09 01:12:00 -
[7]
interesting stuff, although i think it balances out some because 1/2 the pilots in eve are caldari. In your pvp of choice, there may not be many caldari ships, but that doesn't warrant a boost to the entire race because shield tanking isn't prevalant in one section of the pvp spectrum.
It is fine as is, maybe EANMs could be tweaked, but not much else.
This corp is recruiting.
Billboard Project |
Aeaus
Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2006.11.09 01:14:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Aeaus on 09/11/2006 01:14:47
Originally by: Samirol interesting stuff, although i think it balances out some because 1/2 the pilots in eve are caldari. In your pvp of choice, there may not be many caldari ships, but that doesn't warrant a boost to the entire race because shield tanking isn't prevalant in one section of the pvp spectrum.
It is fine as is, maybe EANMs could be tweaked, but not much else.
That may be true, but a large majority of PVP pilots train caldari for the excellent stats and tweak up other races. Secondly a lot of Caldari ships are used in PVE, more so then other races. Realistically in PVP you see MUCH more armor tanks then you will see shield tanks.
I did not suggest a boost to the entire race at all, I suggested that shield / armor really not be that much of a difference by spreading resistances around. This is an indirect boost to make the Amarr BSs fine.
Omni Tanks relaly aren't that big of an issue.
Last Weeks Signature |
Gordon Red
SteelVipers YouWhat
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Posted - 2006.11.09 01:24:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Gordon Red on 09/11/2006 01:27:28 It is said that Amarr should be high damage dealer and have a strong armor.
So you should have included to look at the armor rateing, too. You showed that the cap itself goes down very fast on amarr ships => this limts the quality to tank. Some cap.mods are allways needed, but that's fine. With Kali this will get worse, but I think it is still fine.
To increase the damage and let the fitting problems standing, would be one aproach => you will have to waste slots so you can finally have the high damage.
BUT I would leave the damage right where it is at the moment and increase the ships attributes, so there can be fitted all the big guns as other races can.
The armor problem is still there, but I wouldn't change much there, perhaps the ocassional bonus to the resis per level on one or two ships.
About the Tier3-BS... there are so much topics abou this... but an other gun boat is stupid => a drone BS or a Khanid-style BS would make more sense.
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Aeaus
Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2006.11.09 01:31:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Gordon Red ...
Oh I greatly agree on that point, no race should have the ability to tank and gank at the same time, however the Amarr really have a worser tank and a worser gank then other ships.
Why a worser gank? Omni Tanks + Resists = Crap Damage
Why a worser tank? Guns use up more then capacitor regeneration. Fitting mods are pretty much required. We don't really have a major low slot advantage.
Ship attribute increases would be most welcome, as well as capacitor usage would actually help us maintain a respectable DPS and a respectable TANK at the same time and then decide whether it's worth focusing on one.
Last Weeks Signature |
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Snikkt
Gallente Time Cube Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.11.09 01:32:00 -
[11]
Ammar aren't about versatility. They're non-versatile, just like Gallente like drones, just like Caldari love their missiles, and just like Minmatar ships look like scrap metal.
That's part of flying Ammar. Fluffwise, that is how the Amarr war machine does combat. -------------------
If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.
My opinions are not my corporations.
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Aeaus
Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2006.11.09 01:34:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Snikkt Ammar aren't about versatility. They're non-versatile, just like Gallente like drones, just like Caldari love their missiles, and just like Minmatar ships look like scrap metal.
That's part of flying Ammar. Fluffwise, that is how the Amarr war machine does combat.
Ugh.
Gallente ships are quite versitile (Drones + Railguns + Blasters + Nice Mids) Caldari ships are quite powerful (Missiles + More Missiles + ECM superiority) Minmatar ships are perhaps the most versitile (Autocannons, Drones, Artillery, Missiles)
Except for... Gallente, Caldari, and Most of Minmatar do not suck the big one like the Amarr does.
Last Weeks Signature |
Hanns
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2006.11.09 01:38:00 -
[13]
wow nice post, its nice to read somthing that well thought out and constructed, really makes up for all the pointless, "amarr sux fix plz" threads.
Originally by: Tuxford a new retribution bonus. +1 med slot per level
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Roxanna Kell
BURN EDEN
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Posted - 2006.11.09 01:41:00 -
[14]
Amarr's are meant to be Weak, read the chronicles. they spend their time praying to god, instead of going to training ; p
Quote: "Don't touch the RED butt |
Snikkt
Gallente Time Cube Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.11.09 01:57:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Aeaus
Originally by: Snikkt Ammar aren't about versatility. They're non-versatile, just like Gallente like drones, just like Caldari love their missiles, and just like Minmatar ships look like scrap metal.
That's part of flying Ammar. Fluffwise, that is how the Amarr war machine does combat.
Ugh.
Gallente ships are quite versitile (Drones + Railguns + Blasters + Nice Mids) Caldari ships are quite powerful (Missiles + More Missiles + ECM superiority) Minmatar ships are perhaps the most versitile (Autocannons, Drones, Artillery, Missiles)
Except for... Gallente, Caldari, and Most of Minmatar do not suck the big one like the Amarr does.
Congratz.
You proved my point for me. -------------------
If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.
My opinions are not my corporations.
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Gordon Red
SteelVipers YouWhat
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Posted - 2006.11.09 01:59:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Gordon Red on 09/11/2006 02:02:16
Originally by: Aeaus
Originally by: Gordon Red ...
Guns use up more then capacitor regeneration. Fitting mods are pretty much required. We don't really have a major low slot advantage.
Ship attribute increases would be most welcome, as well as capacitor usage would actually help us maintain a respectable DPS and a respectable TANK at the same time and then decide whether it's worth focusing on one.
I wouldn't change the cap or the recharge rate at all (reason is at the bottom of this post)! To be able to fit the weapons, there would be some lows freed => so there would finally be some space for cap-, damage- or armor mods.
So you could choose what weakness you want to make up. This is important!
Every ship and race MUST have weaknesses. And there have to be MORE weaknesses as you should be able to close, but you should be able to do so.
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Aeaus
Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2006.11.09 01:59:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Roxanna Kell Amarr's are meant to be Weak, read the chronicles. they spend their time praying to god, instead of going to training ; p
This is a MMORPG. Chronicles are no excuse for blatent imbalance. And no, Amarr are supposed to be some of the most powerful...
Quote: The Amarrians were the first of the races in EVE to re-discover Warp technology, notably Jump gate technology. After accomplishing this more than 2,000 years ago, they immediately began expanding to nearby solar systems, slowly building up their empire in the process. On the way, they encountered two human races, both of whom suffered the fate of being enslaved by the far more powerful Amarrians.
Quote: Amarrians soon found the economic and military might of the Gallenteans a match for their own.
Gallente aren't weak in PVP.
As I'll say again, chronicles are no excuse for such strong imbalance.
Last Weeks Signature |
Aeaus
Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2006.11.09 02:00:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Skittz
Congratz.
You proved my point for me.
I was also making the point that lack of versitility doesn't have to make a race weak (Caldari). Whereas the Amarr are weak.
Originally by: Aeaus
Originally by: Roxanna Kell Amarr's are meant to be Weak, read the chronicles. they spend their time praying to god, instead of going to training ; p
This is a MMORPG. Chronicles are no excuse for blatent imbalance. And no, Amarr are supposed to be some of the most powerful...
Quote: The Amarrians were the first of the races in EVE to re-discover Warp technology, notably Jump gate technology. After accomplishing this more than 2,000 years ago, they immediately began expanding to nearby solar systems, slowly building up their empire in the process. On the way, they encountered two human races, both of whom suffered the fate of being enslaved by the far more powerful Amarrians.
Quote: Amarrians soon found the economic and military might of the Gallenteans a match for their own.
Gallente aren't weak in PVP.
As I'll say again, chronicles are no excuse for such strong imbalance.
Last Weeks Signature |
Udyr Vulpayne
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2006.11.09 02:02:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Snikkt Ammar aren't about versatility. They're non-versatile, just like Gallente like drones, just like Caldari love their missiles, and just like Minmatar ships look like scrap metal.
That's part of flying Ammar. Fluffwise, that is how the Amarr war machine does combat.
well according to the backstory we also have DEVASTATING lasers instead of amusing little lightshows and sport the heaviest tanks around instead of just average ones. if amarrian ships were really as powerful as described by the backstory i think we would have less problems with our lack of versatility.
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Udyr Vulpayne
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2006.11.09 02:04:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Udyr Vulpayne on 09/11/2006 02:04:47
Originally by: Aeaus lots of stuff
ehm...did you use emp or fusion for the tempest shortrange damage agaisnt armortanks?
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Aeaus
Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2006.11.09 02:07:00 -
[21]
I used EMP L.
I can pull up the results on Fusion if you'd like to compare them.
Last Weeks Signature |
Gordon Red
SteelVipers YouWhat
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Posted - 2006.11.09 02:11:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Gordon Red on 09/11/2006 02:13:28 If CCP don't want versality for Amarr, they haven't invented the Khanid ships! The T1+T2 recon standing for versality, too. But why no versality for the BS?!?
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Violent Sky
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Posted - 2006.11.09 02:24:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Violent Sky on 09/11/2006 02:26:30 Why are you comparing MegaBeam IIs with 425mms and 1400mms, why not Tachyons?
Can't really propose increasing the optimal of a Megabeam II when you have the option of Tachyons.
Not a flame, just asking. I looked for an explanation in your post, but didn't find one.
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Udyr Vulpayne
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2006.11.09 02:25:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Aeaus I used EMP L.
I can pull up the results on Fusion if you'd like to compare them.
well if you want to compare effectiveness on armortanks you should propably take the ammo used for it. otherwise you ignore the ability to select the best ammo for the job there.
on the few occations i do use projectiles (read: when i want to properly fit a maller or punisher for pvp) i usually use fusion (or a mix with fusion and some other) as you're mostly shooting on armor anyway. also you can always carry some emp/phased plasma or other around as well in case you should meet the unexpected shieldtank. thats somewhat the point of being able to chose your damagetype i thought.
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Aeaus
Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2006.11.09 02:30:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Udyr Vulpayne
Originally by: Aeaus I used EMP L.
I can pull up the results on Fusion if you'd like to compare them.
well if you want to compare effectiveness on armortanks you should propably take the ammo used for it. otherwise you ignore the ability to select the best ammo for the job there.
on the few occations i do use projectiles (read: when i want to properly fit a maller or punisher for pvp) i usually use fusion (or a mix with fusion and some other) as you're mostly shooting on armor anyway. also you can always carry some emp/phased plasma or other around as well in case you should meet the unexpected shieldtank. thats somewhat the point of being able to chose your damagetype i thought.
Fusion L w/ Tempest... Unhardened Shield (0/60/40/20) : 112.8 Hardened Armor (84.33/52.98/60.82/66.04) : 116.6 Unhardened Structure : 256.56
Time to kill : (44.32 + 42.88 + 19.48) = 106.68 seconds / 140.6 DPS (Difference of 10.7% more DPS over EMP L)
Last Weeks Signature |
Violent Sky
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Posted - 2006.11.09 02:33:00 -
[26]
Also, you are basing alot of your argument on the comparison between ships that I assume are going to be snipers or long range.
Every ship should not be equally good at sniping, just like every ship should not be equally good at mining, short range combat, or carrying prostitutes. Yeah that would make it balanced, but it also makes it boring.
If Amarr is so horrible, why was the pre-eminent PvP ship for a very long time the Geddon?
Megapulses are still the most versatile Battleship sized weapon around. Excellent short-medium to medium-long range, more flexible than any other turret based weapon. That has to count for something.
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Aeaus
Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2006.11.09 02:34:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Violent Sky Edited by: Violent Sky on 09/11/2006 02:26:30 Why are you comparing MegaBeam IIs with 425mms and 1400mms, why not Tachyons?
Can't really propose increasing the optimal of a Megabeam II when you have the option of Tachyons.
Not a flame, just asking. I looked for an explanation in your post, but didn't find one.
Tachyons do have 4KM more optimal range. (Note : ever said to increase optimal range), and ultimately 8% more damage. They also use capacitor like a ***** and you need 25987.5 PW with AWU V to fit them on a armageddon, which has 20625 PW to start, you need a minimum of 2 RCU IIs just to fit them.
They're a "super-gun" similar to how Neutron Blasters are to the Gallente. But go ahead and add 8% DPS to these values and see if the loss of yet annother slot to an RCU will make up for that (it won't).
Last Weeks Signature |
Commander Thrawn
Tarnak inc. Eternal Empire
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Posted - 2006.11.09 02:58:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Violent Sky Also, you are basing alot of your argument on the comparison between ships that I assume are going to be snipers or long range.
Every ship should not be equally good at sniping, just like every ship should not be equally good at mining, short range combat, or carrying prostitutes. Yeah that would make it balanced, but it also makes it boring.
If Amarr is so horrible, why was the pre-eminent PvP ship for a very long time the Geddon?
Megapulses are still the most versatile Battleship sized weapon around. Excellent short-medium to medium-long range, more flexible than any other turret based weapon. That has to count for something.
prior to rmr we could stack 8xheatsink II now anything over 4 is useless and the 4th does very little
also eamn where not common
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Risien Drogonne
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Posted - 2006.11.09 03:51:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Risien Drogonne on 09/11/2006 03:55:03
The amarr whines never change. It's amusing. The amarr ships are on top in fully half the categories you listed, and your whine is that you're not on top in the other half too. Oh boo hoo.
Originally by: Aeaus ItÆs very interesting that a race whose primary weapons are blasters (Caldari are the hybrids) according to the ôoriginalö plan outdoes the ôgunshipö race while having guns that are extremely easy to fit, have an optimal, falloff, and capacitor use advantage.
And quite honestly, that's just a stupid statement outright. Blasters and rails are both hybrids just like pulses and beams are both lasers. You're grasping at straws here and it makes your argument look petty.
Add in your propaganda based on not using tachyons and it just looks like outright dishonesty. Good luck bringing that to the devs.
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Aeaus
Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2006.11.09 03:55:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Risien Drogonne The amarr whines never change. It's amusing. The amarr ships are on top in fully half the categories you listed, and your whine is that you're not on top in the other half too. Oh boo hoo.
Worst Capacitor Usage Worst Fitting Requirements Worst Range Worst Falloff Worst Hardened Armor Damage Worst overall damage Worst Tank resulting from capacitor drain
Your rebuke is nothing but a "well... **** you," remark at it's core.
Do you somehow justify having a bad gank and a bad tank by being able to swap crystals instantly or some jazz like that? You're the type of poster that turns civilized threads to flame and whine fests.
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