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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Becham
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Posted - 2006.10.30 19:06:00 -
[31]
Quote: Do you get frustrated that you may not go anywhere in the EVE universe for free, on your own, with no hassle?
I wish that gate camps would accept bribes instead of just auto-blasting every ship that comes through. I don't think you'll find much roleplaying going on at the gate camps. A pity too, it might make the game more enjoyable for all involved. Seems kind of stupid to say the least to blow up a freighter full of cargo when you could fleece them out of their profit with no risk.
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Izo Azlion
Veto.
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Posted - 2006.10.30 19:12:00 -
[32]
Your account needs banning, OP.
Izo Azlion.
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Viktor Fyretracker
Caldari Worms Corp
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Posted - 2006.10.30 19:15:00 -
[33]
logging out to get away from a gate camp is being no more of a total chicken the the campers themselves.
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Syrann
Caldari The Praxis Initiative Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.10.30 19:31:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Roshan longshot
Originally by: Patch86 Just don't do it. 99% of the EVE population hate it, posting about ways to refine your logging-off technique is not a good way to make friends.
If 99% of Eve population hates it so much, why is it such a hot topice all the time?
Because even those who do it hate it when people do it to them.
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Rayvonuk
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Posted - 2006.10.30 19:35:00 -
[35]
Edited by: Rayvonuk on 30/10/2006 19:35:04 lol at the ijut OP, I aggree that gatecamps are boring and lame but if you can come up with a better way to defend our space then please let us know, until you know what you are talking about pls refrain from posting.
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Verite Rendition
Caldari AUS Corporation CORE.
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Posted - 2006.10.30 20:00:00 -
[36]
Honestly, logoffski has gotten out of hand. It's so common now that even the macro'ers know about it, and are moving further out in to 0.0 because it's so hard to catch them. It needs to be fixed, I'm tired of Badgers named x959 running through the North without batting an eye. ---- AUS Corp Lead Megalomanic |
Sadistic
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Posted - 2006.10.30 20:32:00 -
[37]
Logging off like this is no different then knocking over the board in chess when you realize you are about to lose your queen. They may have not writen a rule about it, but it is still unfair to your opponant.
If you need to go in .4 or below, get a scout. This game is meant to foster team work. If you cant find one, I beleive you can do this for free by getting a buddy account. Send it on autopilot, and keep one jump behind him.
The only way you can get caught at a non 0.0 gate camp (cloaked interdictors are fun) is by not being prepared, or incredibly bad luck (they setup blockade after the scout, but before you arrived).
What defines Eve over a single player game is the PVP. That means the occasional unbeatable situation (still avoidable). If all you want is to play shootem-up versus the computer, then I think you would really like the Homeworld series.
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Red Ochre
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Posted - 2006.10.30 20:36:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Gaven Blands As you may or may not know, logging off is not an exploit. Anyway there are right ways and wrong ways to do it to save your ship from whatever situation you want to save it from.
Like, relogging straight back in with an alt allegedly removes your main's ship from space more quickly.
Or logging back in with your main and logging back out again forces your ship another million km away from the danger zone...
So, without the usual flames about camping/logging, is there a guide anyway to the subtle nuances of logging out most effectively?
i didnt want this guide to become widely known but here it is.
Logging Off Guide:
The first step OP to logging off properly is removing your nut$ack. this is an important first step and can be painful or it can be pleasant depending on what rewards your looking for: logging off to avoid ship destruction, looging off to stop a fight gone bad, simple fighting, setting up a gank, then the procedure will be very pleasant to you, but since you already pointed out logging of was fine, your nut $ack must already be gone. so you will not need to do this first step.
second step: is to find like minded players without nut $acks also, in doing so, you reinforce each others way of thinking and playing. your friends and you can then discuss how each of you lost their own nut $acks to pass the time in between logging and relogging.
third step: and most important you must come to grips with you decision. once you remove your nut $ack and begin the fun that is logging to facilitate your playstyle, you can never go back. and as a side note, a high pitched voice is a side effect of this playstyle, those on teamspeak will know what you are, be careful. |
Veryl
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Posted - 2006.10.30 20:59:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Rayvonuk I aggree that gatecamps are boring and lame but if you can come up with a better way to defend our space then please let us know <snip>
Why does everyone immediately equate "gate camps" with "defending space"? There are PLENTY of lame griefers that setup in Empire low-sec systems where defending space has nothing to do with their motivation.
They are just like little kiddies, dancing around on the sidewalk and stepping on ants and other bugs. Their only motivation is killing others, usually those who do not represent even the slightest challenge for them.
I can see both sides of the debate here, but get very tired of the automatic assumption that gate camps equate to defending territory. I think many of the posters here have been in 0.0 so long that they may have forgotten what it's like in Empire space.
I often read people saying "Eve is about risk" - it certainly is. But setting up with 3 battleships in a 0.4 system, next to a newbie starter system, or next to a system where people obtain level 2 missions is not assuming risk - it's cowardly behavior and nothing less.
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Tsanse Kinske
WeMeanYouKnowHarm
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Posted - 2006.10.30 21:33:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Veryl I often read people saying "Eve is about risk" - it certainly is. But setting up with 3 battleships in a 0.4 system, next to a newbie starter system, or next to a system where people obtain level 2 missions is not assuming risk - it's cowardly behavior and nothing less.
Saying EVE is about risk isn't the same as saying it's about *high risk*. As you yourself know, those guys targeting newbies aren't getting very much reward for their trouble either. Consequently, they're falling behind in other important ways compared to people who do go for lucrative targets and do the work to succeed at it.
They may also be camping those systems because they're actually trade routes as well. Or because they'd get eaten up by bigger, badder pirates in other gateway lowsec systems.
You should be seeing a pattern here. Really the game is more about competition (and consequently, cooperation) than risk.
This is all OT though. Love 'em or not, gatecamps in all their forms have been intentionally built into the game. Logging off to avoid ship loss is by definition not part of the game at all. * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
-Douglas Adams, writing about EVE |
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Tranvisor
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Posted - 2006.10.30 21:52:00 -
[41]
"Logging off to avoid ship loss is by definition not part of the game at all"
I think logging is pretty lame as well, but I lump it in with gatecamping/killing smaller ships(and pods). Logging is part of the game, if the devs didn't want it the way it is it would be really easy to fix. I mean seriously, wouldn't it be easy to just have anybody who logged sit there in space for 5 or 10 minutes as a sitting duck?
All you people who hate it, wah wah wah, cry some more. |
Locke DieDrake
Human Information Virus
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Posted - 2006.10.30 21:54:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Tranvisor "Logging off to avoid ship loss is by definition not part of the game at all"
I think logging is pretty lame as well, but I lump it in with gatecamping/killing smaller ships(and pods). Logging is part of the game, if the devs didn't want it the way it is it would be really easy to fix. I mean seriously, wouldn't it be easy to just have anybody who logged sit there in space for 5 or 10 minutes as a sitting duck?
All you people who hate it, wah wah wah, cry some more.
Careful what you wish for. ___________________________________________ The deeper you stick it in your vein, the deeper the thoughts there's no more pain. ___________________________________________
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Black Scorpio
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Posted - 2006.10.30 22:31:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Ranger 1
Originally by: Christina Vallentine Hate to play devils advocate here for a min but....
Cause gate camps arnt a lame form of pvp right? You sit there all day with 20 buddies and shoot at anything that moves and watch it insta pop. There is no skill involved. And there is no chance of the other person surviving. It is no different than spawn camping in an FPS, or griefing a lower level in a different MMO. It's lame!
And no I don't do the log off thing. But I still think gate camps and blobs are stupid.
Conflict has always centered around control of critical area's. With current game mechanics gate camps are the most logical and effective way to defend an area of space from intruders.
Like it or not, in-game or out, people are going to use the tactics that work.
Oh please... There is nothing critical about 'Tama' system in Caldari space. Yet it's constantly camped by the same 5-10 guys in that corp, who apparently are really not that creative to move anywhere else. If you don't believe me, go see for yourself.
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Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2006.10.30 22:35:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Black Scorpio
Originally by: Ranger 1
Originally by: Christina Vallentine Hate to play devils advocate here for a min but....
Cause gate camps arnt a lame form of pvp right? You sit there all day with 20 buddies and shoot at anything that moves and watch it insta pop. There is no skill involved. And there is no chance of the other person surviving. It is no different than spawn camping in an FPS, or griefing a lower level in a different MMO. It's lame!
And no I don't do the log off thing. But I still think gate camps and blobs are stupid.
Conflict has always centered around control of critical area's. With current game mechanics gate camps are the most logical and effective way to defend an area of space from intruders.
Like it or not, in-game or out, people are going to use the tactics that work.
Oh please... There is nothing critical about 'Tama' system in Caldari space. Yet it's constantly camped by the same 5-10 guys in that corp, who apparently are really not that creative to move anywhere else. If you don't believe me, go see for yourself.
yah, but you can't blitz the whole gate camp mechanic of the game jsut because some people do it in systems which you might not consider "criticaal". Most gate camps are in 0.0, and used in territorial disputes. You can't just call for a "Nerf gate camps!!!11one!" because of a minority who get on your nerves.
If those guys camp their every single day, why not get a band together and attack them? I'm sure enoough of their victims would like to kill them as much as you............. -----------------------------------------------
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Black Scorpio
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Posted - 2006.10.30 22:36:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Becham
Quote: Do you get frustrated that you may not go anywhere in the EVE universe for free, on your own, with no hassle?
I wish that gate camps would accept bribes instead of just auto-blasting every ship that comes through. I don't think you'll find much roleplaying going on at the gate camps. A pity too, it might make the game more enjoyable for all involved. Seems kind of stupid to say the least to blow up a freighter full of cargo when you could fleece them out of their profit with no risk.
On that topic? Yes it's rather stupid isn't it. Starting up the game, probably 2 months off in Eve, I fell into a gate camp and I was in a ferox. I offered the guys 10mil since the ship's insurance was about 8 mil, thought it's fair. Apparently of my char's age, I couldn't be bringing UBER items, which I really did not have. I had a regular T1 fitting setup for ratting.
Well, what happened you'd say, the guy just said, naaahh, keep the money, and the gang squad shot me to pieces. I can see they probably though i had something useful, but oh well. If they've only listened for a sec, they'd be 10mil richer, rather than waiting for the next n00b to shoot at!
Yes i think shooting at young players who are obviusly not alts is lame at best. There is no in game mechanics to barr that, only the player's morale and self appreciation. This is the same reason for which I resent and do not respect gate camps in low sec. 0.0 is a totaly another story. I think this post was centered around low sec ganks tho...
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Black Scorpio
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Posted - 2006.10.30 22:46:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Patch86
Originally by: Black Scorpio
Originally by: Ranger 1
Originally by: Christina Vallentine Hate to play devils advocate here for a min but....
Cause gate camps arnt a lame form of pvp right? You sit there all day with 20 buddies and shoot at anything that moves and watch it insta pop. There is no skill involved. And there is no chance of the other person surviving. It is no different than spawn camping in an FPS, or griefing a lower level in a different MMO. It's lame!
And no I don't do the log off thing. But I still think gate camps and blobs are stupid.
Conflict has always centered around control of critical area's. With current game mechanics gate camps are the most logical and effective way to defend an area of space from intruders.
Like it or not, in-game or out, people are going to use the tactics that work.
Oh please... There is nothing critical about 'Tama' system in Caldari space. Yet it's constantly camped by the same 5-10 guys in that corp, who apparently are really not that creative to move anywhere else. If you don't believe me, go see for yourself.
yah, but you can't blitz the whole gate camp mechanic of the game jsut because some people do it in systems which you might not consider "criticaal". Most gate camps are in 0.0, and used in territorial disputes. You can't just call for a "Nerf gate camps!!!11one!" because of a minority who get on your nerves.
If those guys camp their every single day, why not get a band together and attack them? I'm sure enoough of their victims would like to kill them as much as you.............
Hey, well I don't recall mentioning "nerfing" gate camp in game in my post. I have made a point regarfing low sec camps, as being mostly ridicusouly dumb IMO and not really contributing to anyone in terms of interests, the way say you protect an alliance's borders in 0.0. It is in large pure griefing tbh. Why i haven't gathered a squad? Two reason. 1. I usually play solo mostly 2. Tama is not near my home systems, it's only a route every long now and then.
oh and a third reason.. :)
3. I guess I'm being lazy :)
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Murukan
Minmatar The Priory Shroud Of Darkness
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Posted - 2006.10.30 22:46:00 -
[47]
i think if they have you sit in space for a minute when you log it should be a nice fix. If you really just crashed well you can log back in and you don't even have to wait for the emergency warp luck you!
Seriously logging in combat just means your balls haven't dropped yet.
In rust we trust!!!
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Sir Juri
Caldari Species 5618 Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.10.30 22:47:00 -
[48]
Just keep loging untill its Oveur that is trying to shoot you and it will be fixed...
(its a joke)
PS: more then 1% of EVE does log off to "cheat", claim otherwise is just stupid.
damn need to make a new sig... |
Naim Obeji
Minmatar Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2006.10.30 22:48:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Gaven Blands As you may or may not know, logging off is not an exploit. Anyway there are right ways and wrong ways to do it to save your ship from whatever situation you want to save it from.
Like, relogging straight back in with an alt allegedly removes your main's ship from space more quickly.
Or logging back in with your main and logging back out again forces your ship another million km away from the danger zone...
So, without the usual flames about camping/logging, is there a guide anyway to the subtle nuances of logging out most effectively?
Bleh...go away...please. End yourself, even...
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Black Scorpio
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Posted - 2006.10.30 22:49:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Sadistic Logging off like this is no different then knocking over the board in chess when you realize you are about to lose your queen. They may have not writen a rule about it, but it is still unfair to your opponant.
If you need to go in .4 or below, get a scout. This game is meant to foster team work. If you cant find one, I beleive you can do this for free by getting a buddy account. Send it on autopilot, and keep one jump behind him.
The only way you can get caught at a non 0.0 gate camp (cloaked interdictors are fun) is by not being prepared, or incredibly bad luck (they setup blockade after the scout, but before you arrived).
What defines Eve over a single player game is the PVP. That means the occasional unbeatable situation (still avoidable). If all you want is to play shootem-up versus the computer, then I think you would really like the Homeworld series.
Again I might be viewed as the devils advocate, but regarding your comment, a Gate camp is not any more moral than playing a chess and having 3 PC's behind you with the exact same position and entering every move and that one of your oponent, then taking the PC's moves and applying them to the board.
My point? playing vs an oponent where they don't have any chance whatsoever. Again, there is no rule against it, its just self demeaning.
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Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2006.10.30 22:57:00 -
[51]
Edited by: Patch86 on 30/10/2006 22:57:06
Originally by: Black Scorpio
Originally by: Sadistic Logging off like this is no different then knocking over the board in chess when you realize you are about to lose your queen. They may have not writen a rule about it, but it is still unfair to your opponant.
If you need to go in .4 or below, get a scout. This game is meant to foster team work. If you cant find one, I beleive you can do this for free by getting a buddy account. Send it on autopilot, and keep one jump behind him.
The only way you can get caught at a non 0.0 gate camp (cloaked interdictors are fun) is by not being prepared, or incredibly bad luck (they setup blockade after the scout, but before you arrived).
What defines Eve over a single player game is the PVP. That means the occasional unbeatable situation (still avoidable). If all you want is to play shootem-up versus the computer, then I think you would really like the Homeworld series.
Again I might be viewed as the devils advocate, but regarding your comment, a Gate camp is not any more moral than playing a chess and having 3 PC's behind you with the exact same position and entering every move and that one of your oponent, then taking the PC's moves and applying them to the board.
My point? playing vs an oponent where they don't have any chance whatsoever. Again, there is no rule against it, its just self demeaning.
Nerf Queens! Boost Kings! I demand a bigger board, this ones overcrowded- everywhere I go is camped by Pawns!
Analogies are fun -----------------------------------------------
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Black Scorpio
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Posted - 2006.10.30 23:00:00 -
[52]
Yep, analogies are awesome! CCP should boost them :) lol, they create positive mood! (uh oh, sometimes )
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Tsanse Kinske
WeMeanYouKnowHarm
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Posted - 2006.10.30 23:01:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Tranvisor "Logging off to avoid ship loss is by definition not part of the game at all"
I think logging is pretty lame as well, but I lump it in with gatecamping/killing smaller ships(and pods).
It's really not the same thing at all. EVE is a game of opportunity. You're not limited in only dueling consenting heroes of the same level as yourself. This has all kinds of tactical consequences, many of which are fun, many of which aren't if you take losing a ship too seriously. I really do believe that people who'd like it otherwise should look at staying in highsec or games that provide more controlled experiences.
Quote: Logging is part of the game, if the devs didn't want it the way it is it would be really easy to fix. I mean seriously, wouldn't it be easy to just have anybody who logged sit there in space for 5 or 10 minutes as a sitting duck?
It would be hard to do without hitting players who actually lose their connection. Nevertheless, they have taken some measures to address logoffskis, so it's clear what the intention is. But players have found yet more ways to circumvent them. That's what the OP is asking for.
* * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
-Douglas Adams, writing about EVE |
Pestillence
Chav-Scum
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Posted - 2006.10.30 23:25:00 -
[54]
Aye, to be honest I think threads like this just move the fix date a little closer than we would have otherwise had it.
Thanks OP!
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Cipher7
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2006.10.30 23:36:00 -
[55]
This whole game is an exploit. Logon traps are an exploit. Instas are an exploit. Buying a character for isk and using it to alt spy is an exploit.
Ppl whine about the exploits which do not suit them, while using those exploits that benefit them.
Heck look at the stab nerf.
Stabs were an in-game mechanic.
The rich and powerful did not like them because their smaller more nimble opponents could use them for hit and run attacks and avoid going toe to toe with the dominant powers. Pirate bands like BE and such could use them for hit and run raids into 0.0
The big alliances lobbied out-of-game to change the in-game mechanics to suit them and CCP bowed to them.
Its the same thing with Logoffski.
Anything to please the big alliances. The exploits THEY use are ok. The exploits OTHERS use against them are not.
Now, I'm not arguing FOR ctrl-q.
I'm saying get rid of ALL the exploits.
Logon traps.
Instas.
Alt spies.
Logoffski
And gate camping sucks. That's low quality garbage PVP. Move PVP away from the gates to where RESOURCES are collected. Have people fight over things like FUEL and ORE not simply TRAVEL.
Having to keep 5000 instas SUCKS. Having to play the gatecamp scanner mambo SUCKS. You shouldn't have to wake up at 5am just to get a BS into an empty part of 0.0 that nobody uses. We need less chokepoints. All the PIPES should be relatively safe for TRAVEL, the BRANCHES off those pipes is what corps and alliances should OWN.
Not oh we own 1 choke point so we own 3 regions worth of roids and nobody but us can use them.
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Thor Xian
Vertigo One
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Posted - 2006.10.30 23:47:00 -
[56]
If you can't play the game as it was intended to be played, you should review your decision to play it.
~Thor Xian, Material Defender |
Sadistic
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Posted - 2006.10.30 23:59:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Black Scorpio
Again I might be viewed as the devils advocate, but regarding your comment, a Gate camp is not any more moral than playing a chess and having 3 PC's behind you with the exact same position and entering every move and that one of your oponent, then taking the PC's moves and applying them to the board.
My point? playing vs an oponent where they don't have any chance whatsoever. Again, there is no rule against it, its just self demeaning.
But that is what makes the game better then PvE. There are completely unwinnable situations. Do you expect to be able to go up solo against and 5 players in the game and win(with those 5 being setup as a pvp team)? Whether they are gate camping or catch you in a roid field, you are just as dead if you were not watching and being ready.
I understand the thought pattern. I used to mission run in Gelfiven, and Atlar always seemed to be getting camped. It's a drag when you want to do a mission that requires you to use a large slow ship that might be killable with a large enough sniper camp. Why should your game play be limited by people that want to PVP while you dont? But that is what Eve is. A PVP game with some NPC content to get people introduced to the game.
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Gaven Blands
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Posted - 2006.10.31 12:55:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Cipher7 .. some stuff ..
I would have preferred you just call me names and told me to go die in RL like everyone else does (I am unaffected by such things). Your thoughtful and intelligent response just gives me hope for continuing with Eve. I'll add you to the list of people who can have my stuff when I finally give up with this crap.
Put home addresses in loss and killmails. Maybe then the community will find a way to control themselves a bit better. |
Noluck Ned
FATAL REVELATIONS Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.10.31 13:38:00 -
[59]
So then I would like to know why you are playing eve in the first place.
I started in the same place as everyone, near broke in a noob frigate in a starter system. I had to deal with the exact same things eveyone else did. Sure I lost a ship or two in a camp but this didnt make me give up or look for lame ways around it. Instead I used the tools which already existed ingame to avoid these losses and made my fortune ingame single handed.
The big adjustment that eveyone must make before they can REALLY begin to enjoy EVE is that losing a ship means NOTHING. Hundreds and hundreds get blown up every single day and guess what: Its part of the game.
Since I have been living in 0.0 I have learned to never ever assume you will dock in the same ship you undock in. If you do then its a pleasant surprise, but never count on it. Most importantly: If you are not willing to lose it, then just dont fly it.
Oh and read the damn warning that pops up before you enter lowsec.
F4T4L is Recruiting! |
Heikki
Gallente Wreckless Abandon
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Posted - 2006.10.31 13:42:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Thor Xian If you can't play the game as it was intended to be played
Isn't thats the whole problem currently? If CCP's stance is, as believed, that logging off is a valid tactic without consequences, does it make sense use 'not intended' argument?
I'm praying CCP would fix this gaping whole in the mechnamisms. Yet if a noob friend told me he is taking his freighter to 0.0 trip, I would make sure he knows the proper log off tactics. And check that he wasn't in my corp.
In my opinion logoff tactic is already widespread enough, that we might as well all start using it. Hoping that once rampant enough, the adverse effects would be obvious and would hasten the fix from CCP.
So we have like two possible courses: 1) Have enough alliances/corp declare 'we kick off loggers', thus knowingly give minor advantage BE like corps 2) Have everyone to use the said tactic
-Lasse who doesn't yet do logoff thingies, nor suffer his corp mates to do it
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