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Nostrop
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Posted - 2006.10.28 15:07:00 -
[1]
Hallo, I do understand that minmatar ships takes a lot of time to train, and that other ships can be trained faster, and usded more effective in a shorter ammount of time.
The question is: if i take my time and train all the skills to use the minmatar`s sffective, do i get the reward in the end?
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Jim McGregor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.10.28 15:08:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Jim McGregor on 28/10/2006 15:08:55
No. You shouldnt pick the race to expect to get better than the rest in the end. But you will be somewhat equal when you get high skills. --- Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Tiuwaz
Minmatar Omacron Militia
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Posted - 2006.10.28 15:11:00 -
[3]
who knows? by the time you can use minmatar effictively (20 mill+ sp? xD) 1 year is gone by and balance will have changed
currently with a decent amount of sp's and skills you can do well with minnis, only the battleshiplevel really is subpar
in the end minnis is about the playstyle, you have to like it
Originally by: Oveur This is not the conspiracy you are looking for.
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Dristra
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Posted - 2006.10.28 15:12:00 -
[4]
Minmatar suffer some hardships, but at least they are not one-trick ponies.
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Brother Todd
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Posted - 2006.10.28 15:14:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 28/10/2006 15:08:55
No. You shouldnt pick the race to expect to get better than the rest in the end. But you will be somewhat equal when you get high skills.
yes and you should only train caldari and gallente. Because every single whiner on these forums in an expert on everything and they _know_ minmatar and amarr are sub-par ... even though they've spent 90% of their eve-time on these forums.
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Jim McGregor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.10.28 15:17:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Brother Todd
yes and you should only train caldari and gallente. Because every single whiner on these forums in an expert on everything and they _know_ minmatar and amarr are sub-par ... even though they've spent 90% of their eve-time on these forums.
So you are saying that minmatar gets better than the rest when they are maxed out? :)
--- Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Yamaeda
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Posted - 2006.10.28 15:19:00 -
[7]
Minnies are very versatile and uses guns, missiles, drones and speed in somewhat equal measures. This is their strength and their weakness. To be good you need good skills in all three. It's really not very different from other races, although amarr to a bigger degree can skip missiles and caldari can skip turrets. To utilize the ships full potential all need all skills.
In the end it's more of a play style thing, if you like rust and duct tape and drive fast until you bump into them and then go dakkadakkadakka instead driving towards and go pew pew or sitting still and go wooshwoosh. :)
/Y ---------- It's great being Amarr, ain't it? |
Temo Jick
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Posted - 2006.10.28 15:21:00 -
[8]
IĈm a gallente specialist but i have some minmitar skills and I will say this much for them. Their ships are a little underpowered. But are also the most fun of any I have experience of. I think the more casual gamer would be best off avoiding the race. But if your going to put a lot of hours into eve mini ships offer you maximum variation when it comes to the things you can do to stay amused.
Oh and one more point. No matter how Oped your ship is there is always going to be some one who will set up to come and take it away from you in what ever manner is necessary to give you only the smallest fighting chance. For this reason the best defence any ship in eve can have is just not being there when said person comes to deliver the beating. In this area alone Minmitar ships have the undeniable advantage.
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Brother Todd
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Posted - 2006.10.28 15:26:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Originally by: Brother Todd
yes and you should only train caldari and gallente. Because every single whiner on these forums in an expert on everything and they _know_ minmatar and amarr are sub-par ... even though they've spent 90% of their eve-time on these forums.
So you are saying that minmatar gets better than the rest when they are maxed out? :)
I'm saying race isn't a major factor in this game. Nerfs come and go and minor imbalances are fixed eventually. Chasing the current flavour of the month isn't something young players should be advised to do.
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Kojiami
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Posted - 2006.10.28 15:27:00 -
[10]
In strength it's like this:
Minmatar = Gallente > Amarr (Has major problems) > Minmatar (Completly subpar on both HAC and BC level.)
I ganked a tempest with my armageddon. I barely have 2 M sp, and the tempest had 4ish.
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Olixia Castitatis
Gallente Svefn-G-Englar
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Posted - 2006.10.28 15:31:00 -
[11]
The AC Tempest is cool. -----------------------
<Sig goes here> |
Tyler Lowe
Minmatar DROW Org Sylph Alliance
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Posted - 2006.10.28 15:50:00 -
[12]
I think this much is true of any race you pick:
It doesn't get to be "worth it" until you've hit high skill in the ship command skills, the weapons you use, and the underlying support skills that allow you to get maximum performance out of any hull. When it comes to Matari ships, you have two things that you'll have to contend with that the other races simply do not (at least not to the same degree). First, is the split weapon systems. The most obvious example is the Typhoon, but there are others too, like the Bellicose. Second, is the need to train both tanking modes to a competent skill level. The upside is, you have unparalleled flexibility available to you.
I'm by no means trained up in all skills neccesary to make me even in the top 50% piloting wise, at 13 million SP. Every skill added however, gives me that much more appreciation for Minmatar ships. If you like thinking creatively, and don't mind putting in some extra time to be able to do things someone else does more easily, if it means that eventually you don't need to go outside your race to do things they can't, yes, it's worth it. J.A.F.O.
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Yelram
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Posted - 2006.10.28 16:49:00 -
[13]
Dumb question I'm sure, but what fighting style are the Minmatar best at? I have about 4 million SP currently with my char. Eventually I would like to have a large ECM ship, but I would like to also fly a larger high DPS ship once in a while. Should I just stick with my current char or would I be better off creating a char with a different race?
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d'hofren
Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2006.10.28 17:10:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Kojiami In strength it's like this:
Minmatar = Gallente > Amarr (Has major problems) > Minmatar (Completly subpar on both HAC and BC level.)
I ganked a tempest with my armageddon. I barely have 2 M sp, and the tempest had 4ish.
Rubbish,
There is no way anyone could make a pest work with 4mil sp's. That doesn't make it a bad ship. A properly set up Pest, (DCU EANM II's), could wipe the floor with a geddon. Actually that is exactly why many of the Amarr around here are fed up at the moment.
Some ships function better than others with low sp's, many Matari ships need a modicum of skill, brains and skill points to use well.
Sorry to be harsh, but you are posting very wrong advice. For example I don't think anyone would say the Vaga is subpar, as you assert.
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Denrace
Amarr Psykotic Dreams
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Posted - 2006.10.28 17:18:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Denrace on 28/10/2006 17:18:31 Yeah man!
Theres not much cooler than a rack of Howitzers clunking slowly into position to unload a hail of cannon fire across the galaxy.
Den ________________________________________
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Mortuus
Minmatar Oblivion's Gate
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Posted - 2006.10.28 18:19:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Mortuus on 28/10/2006 18:21:14 Minmatar do have some of the best ships available in each class though.
Rifter, Thrasher, Rupture, Stabber, Cyclone, Typhoon, Tempest and then to t2 Claw, Stilleto, Jaguar, Vagabond, Sleipnir.
All incredibly dangerous ships when used well, and all extemely versatile.
If you take the time to train ALL the skills needed for Minmatar, you will be armed with an array of ships, that can change roles at will, are very good at each of those roles, and can match the ships of other races in each category.
Post patch we get the Hurricane, and that ship is just sexy.
Yelram: Stick with the current character, already at 4mil SP, just grab a Caldari frigate book and train it once you really know what you want.
ex-Occassus Republica <3 |
Godar Marak
Amarr Return Of Red Dawn
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Posted - 2006.10.28 18:24:00 -
[17]
Quote: worth it in the end?
lolz -------------------- Tuxford you broke my beloved EVE |
prathe
Minmatar Omega Enterprises Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2006.10.29 05:16:00 -
[18]
TBH it's pointless to debate this race over that race .... til the end of the world
no matter what anybody tells you here are the key factors
1- do not look at anyone ship being the " ONE " , every ship in eve has it's purpose think of your hangar as a toolbox . each tool has a job it is good for dont try to hammer nails with a wrench
2- no race is better than any other . each has it's niche play your style , don't play to copy every one else play to enjoy yourself .
3- MOST IMPORTANT - pilots win battles not ships , be smart , be qwick , be realistic . and have fun
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Ath Amon
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Posted - 2006.10.29 05:58:00 -
[19]
for me is no...
atm minnies are a bit lacking expecially on bigger ships (BS+) where ACs are outclassed in scrambler range and arties will be soon quite useless due to HPs boost...
still this is the situation atm... who know... maybe in 2 years 90% of eve population will pilot minnies instead of caldari...
for your other question about the sp allocation i think no and it will never be... to say that race x that need more sps to be effective will be better in the endgame is like to imply that such race is umbalanced... why to fly other races if in the end game i will have a gimped char.
also i don't even agree that much that minnies need tons of SPs over other races (except maybe caldari), in my opinion is more an "excuse" to mask some race actual flaws...
yes there are some ships that need to be quite skill intensive to be effective but in the end they are just a few ships (and i still hope they will get changed... split weapons ftl!!!!)
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Nemain
Amarr Obsidian Asylum
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Posted - 2006.10.29 06:17:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Nemain on 29/10/2006 06:18:29 Personally I think they are worth it, tho any race is worth it if you stick at it. In my opinion the only 2 problems minmattar have is over flexibity, which is only a probelm with the initial training needs, when you have the skills it's a boon. Not only that but if you do want to train another race, minmattar lets you jump to any race with minimall extra skills. The other "problem" is what most races have, the Battleship rush, most people try to get a BS too soon, and so are usually disapointed with the performance. With sub 6mill SP i'd stick to cruisers or BC if you need somthing a bit bigger. Besides spending more time in smaller ships is far more cost effective as well as making you better with module fitting as you get more constraints (not to mention making you more likely to be able to effectively use the likes of HACs). Do that and when you get in your BS at 6+mill SP it will perform more like you expect it to.
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Susa Ou
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Posted - 2006.10.29 06:17:00 -
[21]
When I meet a new Minmatar toon - I always think - that guy will not be a threat for another year.
This is the truth about Minmatar characters. By the time you have mastered the minmatar ship, you can effectivly switch to other ships with little or no effort (a few skills here and there, but most of the hard stuff is done). After a year or so of hard training, you become equal to other ships in utility. In the end though, its about what you want to ply and your playstyle. If you like the Minmatar style of combat as opposed to Caldari or Gallente or Amarr - then keep at it. I will say though, the more 'pure' races are easier to understand in combat then the Mataar are. Amarr = beams of doom, Caldari = Missles or super long range rail action, Gallente = get in close, nos, drones, blasters and kiss your ship goodby. If you find yourself charging into combat a lot more, wishing you had a little mroe armor and more of those drones. . .Gallente may be worth checking out. If you want to hand back a little more, don't care to get close, want more utility. . .perhaps Caldari are your thing? If you want more turrets, more pew-pew and fight in the mid ranges. . .Amarr may have been a better choise. The beauty of eve is, you can do it all. . .if you have the time.
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Thor Xian
State War Academy
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Posted - 2006.10.29 07:10:00 -
[22]
Minmatar is worth it...simply because it's fun no matter how good or bad it gets.
~TX |
TheDevilsJury
principle of motion R i s e
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Posted - 2006.10.29 07:15:00 -
[23]
Only certain minmatar ships are like that in my opinion. For example, the tank choice. You can train Armor tank skills only and be effective in a partial number of minmatar ships. If you want to fly every single ship effectively, then you'll need both armor and shield tank skills. I think if you pick a ship you want to fly and go for it you can focus in those skills and "finish" in only slightly more (if any more) time than a pilot of another race.
Exceptions would be ships like the Bellicose and the Typhoon. And possibly the tempest. Those ships with mixed weapons systems will take longer.
^^^^ Certified Anti-CHON Fit ^^^^ |
Cirale
GALAXIAN Rule of Three
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Posted - 2006.10.29 08:29:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Cirale on 29/10/2006 08:32:15 Ive never flown any other race than min. Ive imagined just training armor and beams for amaar, or just missiles and shield for caldari, or.... who cares?
I like fast ships. I like a small sig. I like being able to fit my ship several different ways.
the best advice I could give you is this, if you want to be "good" fast, train some other race. if you want to have fun and be able to pwn sh1t HARD, train matari. and what does it mean to train matari?
it means get your basic skills up first. train up your nav skills, train up your basic engineering skills, train up mechanic skills, get everything "basic" to lvl 4 or 5 THEN start to focus on guns, missiles, drones, ships, whatever...
point is this, matari ships are awesome, but you need to be an awesome pilot to seriously benifit from them. you can take 2 paths, either start with another race and train up what they need to be good, and suffer the restrictions of specializing, or become a GOOD PILOT, get your "basic" skills above average and discover the joys of what minmatar ships have to offer.
I spent a year (yes, a freakin year, because I was working overseas and could only change skills and highsec mission run) training up fitting/tanking/nav/ship operation skills. and the pay off was well worth the wait, regardless my capacity to play. and the beauty is, once you have the skills needed to fly fast and agile, to be able to tank armor and shield well, once your capacitor skills and your fitting skills are above average, you can fly ANY RACE with a bit of training!!
thing is, matari do it best.....
so. like others have said, just decide how you want to play, and suffer/enjoy specializing or aim for the long haul.
edit: some ****nit didnt make sense
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Godar Marak
Amarr Return Of Red Dawn
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Posted - 2006.10.29 09:26:00 -
[25]
Minmatar has some really good ships, they will however be shafted in the upcoming patch it seams.
If you want to see how well a tempest can do you should download the 'lock n load' videos.
-------------------- Tuxford you broke my beloved EVE |
Bin Tol
The Clearwater Society
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Posted - 2006.10.29 10:49:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Denrace Edited by: Denrace on 28/10/2006 17:18:31 Yeah man!
Theres not much cooler than a rack of Howitzers clunking slowly into position to unload a hail of Volkswagons across the galaxy.
Den
Fixed --------
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Zephirz
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.10.29 10:55:00 -
[27]
Minmatar is the most fun imho....
fact is that you need good "deep breath" Gunnery, missile, drone skills for damage. You need good navigation skills to get the racial "bonus (lolz)" and you need good shield skills to tank various minnie ships oh and i forgot the armor skills that you need for the rest of the minnie ships.
soooo if you wanna become the minnie ubar player train for example gunnery and armor skills and use gunnery adn armor boats. than once ur good at that train shield skills and you can use the other ships too. than train drone skills and missile skills to get the best out of your ships :)
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Shin Jai
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Posted - 2006.10.29 11:21:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Shin Jai on 29/10/2006 11:22:09 I like the speedy play style of the minmatar and things like the
The Tempest A Skilled AC Tempest Pilot is something not to mess with and also the famous 1400 Sniping Tempest, very nice alpha damage.
The Rupture Amazing against other cruisers with a 1600 plate + dual 180 II setup.
The Muninn with 720 IIs and sniping/gank power. It can 1 volley intys.
The 400mm Plate Claw, that is amazing vs other cepters.
The Jaguar, with medium extender II, very popular just now.
The Vagabond for the speed, agility of it.. It is amazing. ( I dont use stabs )
The Rapier/Huginn is very nice for sniping interceptors at a gate and a must for most gangs at a gatecamp.
The Hurricane, I have heard ALOT of good things about it. LOOKS SEXEH!
The TyphoonI really like the versatility of the phoon, could use a lil more grid imo.
The Sabre is good at soloing and the best interdictor for gangs tbh.
The Rifter, amongst the favourite t1 frigate to fly. Can even kill some interceptors.
The Sleipnir, well.. what can I say. Its just pure awsome.
The Thrasher, its an amazing destroyer for noobs to fly around in for cheap pvp, with 10 of these and a 400mm plate setup. These are deadly in a pact.
There is probally more, thats all i can think of off the top of my head.
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Cipher7
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2006.10.29 11:46:00 -
[29]
If you train any faction it should be for the theme and because you enjoy the looks, not faction balance.
Faction balance changes, whats weak today will be powerful tommorrow.
Just specialize in what you enjoy.
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m0jo
Fellow Space Traveller Association
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Posted - 2006.10.29 13:05:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Nostrop Hallo, I do understand that minmatar ships takes a lot of time to train, and that other ships can be trained faster, and usded more effective in a shorter ammount of time.
The question is: if i take my time and train all the skills to use the minmatar`s sffective, do i get the reward in the end?
Listen dood you either love flying minmatar or you dont. Dont freaking train minny because they are the fad of the week, train minny cuz they ownerize. Sometimes I really loathe certain eve players.
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