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Noctaly
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
5
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Posted - 2015.04.12 10:14:10 -
[1] - Quote
Hello folks,
I am trying to understand better the warp mechanics within EvE Online. Here is what I understood so far :
- You enter warp when your are aligned to your destination and you reach 75% of your top speed.
As far as I understand it, there are two steps in the warp process :
- Aligning to your destination - Accelerating until you reach 75% of your max velocity
The second part, Acceleration, is easy to compute. It will depends of your ship mass and inertia modifier. The formula is well known and stated on the following pages :
https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Aligning https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Acceleration (Same formula as above, simply more generic) http://wiki.eve-id.net/Equations#Fighting_Equations
I have however no idea how to calculate your 'aligning to the destination time'. Suppose I want to warp to something behind me. I will have to do a 180-¦ turn. How much time will I need for it ? Since I am accelerating while aligning, how can I factor that into my "time to warp" formula ?
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Tsukino Stareine
Sock Robbers Inc. Low-Class
1143
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Posted - 2015.04.12 10:26:24 -
[2] - Quote
it's a bit tricky there are a couple things to think about:
1. If you're sitting at 0 velocity, time taken to warp is exactly the same no matter what direction you are facing in.
2. Thus you just need to figure out time taken to decelerate when you have velocity in a direction you're not warping in and add it to your base align time. |
Noctaly
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
5
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Posted - 2015.04.12 10:36:54 -
[3] - Quote
Thank you for your answer
Tsukino Stareine wrote: 1. If you're sitting at 0 velocity, time taken to warp is exactly the same no matter what direction you are facing in.
Does it mean that while turning, I am also accelerating at the same time with the maximum possible acceleration ? If so, it's indeed quite easy to compute :D |
Tsukino Stareine
Sock Robbers Inc. Low-Class
1143
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Posted - 2015.04.12 10:44:46 -
[4] - Quote
Noctaly wrote:Thank you for your answer Tsukino Stareine wrote: 1. If you're sitting at 0 velocity, time taken to warp is exactly the same no matter what direction you are facing in.
Does it mean that while turning, I am also accelerating at the same time with the maximum possible acceleration ? If so, it's indeed quite easy to compute :D
Ships in EVE are not computed with any "direction" so to speak. In terms of the game engine each ship is a sphere.
The only time direction matters is when you have velocity in a direction that isn't where you are warping. |
Iroquoiss Pliskin
Hedion University Amarr Empire
239
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Posted - 2015.04.12 10:49:33 -
[5] - Quote
Tsukino Stareine is korrekt.
I take my shirt off and pretend I'm on a submarine.
// Turret-Equivalent of the Rapid ML Concept
//
Cruisers Online - [Damage done in PvP by Shiptype]
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Noctaly
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
5
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Posted - 2015.04.12 10:58:01 -
[6] - Quote
Tsukino Stareine wrote: Ships in EVE are not computed with any "direction" so to speak. In terms of the game engine each ship is a sphere.
The only time direction matters is when you have velocity in a direction that isn't where you are warping.
Perfect, that's exactly what I am looking for. Thank you very much :D |
Azda Ja
Green Skull LLC
3561
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Posted - 2015.04.12 11:04:04 -
[7] - Quote
Tsukino Stareine wrote:In terms of the game engine each ship is a sphere.
As an aside, this also explains what a ship's "signature radius" is. It's not just nonsense words, it's actually referring to the size of your sphere, so a target painter increases the literal size of an opposing ship, as far as the server is concerned.
"I only lose ships when I fly with Azda." - Barry Cuttlefish
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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
23595
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Posted - 2015.04.12 11:16:51 -
[8] - Quote
Microwarpdrives and afterburners affect align times, as do webs.
You may find Jesters post on getting battleships to warp rapidly and the Eve Uni one on advanced piloting to be of interest.
Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business.
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
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ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
477
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Posted - 2015.04.12 11:56:33 -
[9] - Quote
another thing to note is that it's not 75% or your current max speed it's 75-105%. So if you are aligned with your MWD on and someone scrams and webs you so that your MWD turns off and your are now webbed and your current speed is 500% + of your max speed then you can not warp until you slow down to 105% or less or your max speed increases to get you in the 75-105% range. |
Iroquoiss Pliskin
Hedion University Amarr Empire
239
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Posted - 2015.04.12 13:30:34 -
[10] - Quote
Azda Ja wrote:Tsukino Stareine wrote:In terms of the game engine each ship is a sphere. As an aside, this also explains what a ship's "signature radius" is. It's not just nonsense words, it's actually referring to the size of your sphere, so a target painter increases the literal size of an opposing ship, as far as the server is concerned.
Does it now?
Can you prove the increase in said sphere radius by collision detection?
Target painted Machariels are a Go!
// Turret-Equivalent of the Rapid ML Concept
//
Cruisers Online - [Damage done in PvP by Shiptype]
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Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
242
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Posted - 2015.04.12 13:54:01 -
[11] - Quote
I gave up on "calculation", just follow intuition and experience. If you want to warp as fast as the numbers permit be at a stand still, for instawarp be aligned and on speed. For fast escape, choose a target near to current alignment and turn your prop mod off. Everything else is usually not under your control anyway.
I'm my own NPC alt.
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Azda Ja
Green Skull LLC
3561
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Posted - 2015.04.12 13:57:55 -
[12] - Quote
Iroquoiss Pliskin wrote:Azda Ja wrote:Tsukino Stareine wrote:In terms of the game engine each ship is a sphere. As an aside, this also explains what a ship's "signature radius" is. It's not just nonsense words, it's actually referring to the size of your sphere, so a target painter increases the literal size of an opposing ship, as far as the server is concerned. Does it now? Can you prove the increase in said sphere radius by collision detection? Target painted Machariels are a Go! You mean target painted MWDing Machariels are a go .
"I only lose ships when I fly with Azda." - Barry Cuttlefish
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Noctaly
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
5
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Posted - 2015.04.12 14:00:48 -
[13] - Quote
Thank you all for your posts, there are some interesting information right there
One more thing I was thinking of. How do ships decelerrate ? I found this Rubicon Dev Blog (https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=283132) regarding warp speed change, and there is a deceleration line which speed is one third of the top warp speed. Does it mean that at one fixed distance before landing we start decelerating using the opposite of the formula for acceleration ? |
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
243
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Posted - 2015.04.12 14:16:42 -
[14] - Quote
Noctaly wrote:Thank you all for your posts, there are some interesting information right there One more thing I was thinking of. How do ships decelerrate ? I found this Rubicon Dev Blog (https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=283132) regarding warp speed change, and there is a deceleration line which speed is one third of the top warp speed. Does it mean that at one fixed distance before landing we start decelerating using the opposite of the formula for acceleration ? No, warp deceleration is a different mechanism, it is the time it takes you from the text "warping" to the speed number, which is the point in time where you can lock and being locked. It is based on the warp speed of your ship and floored at 2sec iirc. The faster the warp speed of the ship the faster you can lock after warp.
I'm my own NPC alt.
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Noctaly
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
5
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Posted - 2015.04.12 14:21:24 -
[15] - Quote
That's noted ! |
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
243
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Posted - 2015.04.12 14:23:45 -
[16] - Quote
Pro tip: there is a new indicator for that point in time. Just watch your target window (with the warp, align, ...buttons), if the buttons light up and are functional again, you are out of warp and can start your actions.
I'm my own NPC alt.
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Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
243
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Posted - 2015.04.12 14:28:13 -
[17] - Quote
Pro tip 2: you are invulnerable during that time plus some 2-3sec if you are not doing anything. Take that time to assess the situation and position your mouse over the right buttons, e.g. select target on overview and hover the align button.
I'm my own NPC alt.
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Noctaly
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
5
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Posted - 2015.04.12 15:55:09 -
[18] - Quote
Thanks for the tips :D
I mainly want to calculate the warp time needed per distance. I noticed that the ship speed is decrease at the end of the warp and I wondered how it would affect travel times :) |
Iroquoiss Pliskin
Hedion University Amarr Empire
243
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Posted - 2015.04.12 17:55:52 -
[19] - Quote
Azda Ja wrote:Iroquoiss Pliskin wrote:Azda Ja wrote:Tsukino Stareine wrote:In terms of the game engine each ship is a sphere. As an aside, this also explains what a ship's "signature radius" is. It's not just nonsense words, it's actually referring to the size of your sphere, so a target painter increases the literal size of an opposing ship, as far as the server is concerned. Does it now? Can you prove the increase in said sphere radius by collision detection? Target painted Machariels are a Go! You mean target painted MWDing Machariels are a go .
Question still stands - does it or does it not increase the physical collision sphere around the ship? vOv
// Turret-Equivalent of the Rapid ML Concept
//
Cruisers Online - [Damage done in PvP by Shiptype]
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Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders Spaceship Bebop
3773
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Posted - 2015.04.12 18:03:56 -
[20] - Quote
Noctaly wrote:Thanks for the tips :D
I mainly want to calculate the warp time needed per distance. I noticed that the ship speed is decrease at the end of the warp and I wondered how it would affect travel times :) You can divide warp into 3 steps:
1) acceleration (to your top warp speed) - this is AFTER you've already entered warp
2) 'cruise' (when you're cruisin' thru space at your top warp speed)
3) deceleration
Now, I did the math some time ago, posted it in some thread. I'm sure it's correct, but I don't remember why atm :P.
Anyway, if 1 AU is 150 billion meters, d is total warp distance (in AU), k is your warp speed (in AU/s) and y is your ship's max speed:
j is your deceleration speed, it's k/3 (a third of your warp speed), with a maximum (cap) of 2
1) time = ln (1 AU) / k seconds; distance = 1 AU (exactly, always)
3) time = ln (1 AU x k / y) / j; distance = k/j (this is exactly 3 AU, unless k > 6)
2) distance = d - 1 AU - the above deceleration distance (3 AU, unless k > 6); time = distance / k
For warps shorter than 4 AU, the formulas are different and I couldn't be arsed to calculate them :P
Make space glamorous!
Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
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Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders Spaceship Bebop
3773
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Posted - 2015.04.12 18:08:04 -
[21] - Quote
ergherhdfgh wrote:another thing to note is that it's not 75% or your current max speed it's 75-105%. So if you are aligned with your MWD on and someone scrams and webs you so that your MWD turns off and your are now webbed and your current speed is 500% + of your max speed then you can not warp until you slow down to 105% or less or your max speed increases to get you in the 75-105% range. I don't think there's a max speed to enter warp. At least it's definitely not 105%.
Anyone can test it: align, turn on mwd, wait a cycle or two, turn off mwd, hit warp as fast as you can as soon as the mwd shuts.
You'll see that you insta-warp, while moving much faster than your max base speed.
Make space glamorous!
Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
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Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders Spaceship Bebop
3773
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Posted - 2015.04.12 18:11:34 -
[22] - Quote
Tipa Riot wrote:Pro tip 2: you are not lockable during that time plus some 2-3sec if you are not doing anything. Take that time to assess the situation and position your mouse over the right buttons, e.g. select target on overview and hover the align button.
EDIT: sorry, you are not lockable but can take damage from AOE weapons like smart bombs in your proximity. Confirming this, and it's more than 2-3 seconds, I'd estimate 10.
Make space glamorous!
Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
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Azda Ja
Green Skull LLC
3561
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Posted - 2015.04.12 18:12:36 -
[23] - Quote
Iroquoiss Pliskin wrote:Question still stands - does it or does it not increase the physical collision sphere around the ship? vOv
It still stands, and is a good question. Honestly I'm very curious now if that's the case or not. I'll try a bit of testing when I'm on later.
"I only lose ships when I fly with Azda." - Barry Cuttlefish
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Eve Solecist
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1693
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Posted - 2015.04.12 18:17:06 -
[24] - Quote
Iroquoiss Pliskin wrote:Azda Ja wrote:Iroquoiss Pliskin wrote:Azda Ja wrote:Tsukino Stareine wrote:In terms of the game engine each ship is a sphere. As an aside, this also explains what a ship's "signature radius" is. It's not just nonsense words, it's actually referring to the size of your sphere, so a target painter increases the literal size of an opposing ship, as far as the server is concerned. Does it now? Can you prove the increase in said sphere radius by collision detection? Target painted Machariels are a Go! You mean target painted MWDing Machariels are a go . Question still stands - does it or does it not increase the physical collision sphere around the ship? vOv No, it doesn't.
Signature radius affects the gravity bubble of your ship, which means that it will be easier to hit with turrets, because everything shot at it easier "falls" onto the ship.
It does not affect collision, though, because ... ... how do I ......
If sigrad affected collision, you could bump a mwd titan from so far away it would look stupid and ruin the game.
Same for every ship with big sigrad and mwd on. As this is not being widely know, which it would be, we can safely conclude that sigradius does not affect collision.
:)
This one is one of my better posts. You should see the others ....
"I've tried to give up making sexual innuendos. But it's hard, so hard." -RoAnnon
Ron Gilbert made me cry.
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Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders Spaceship Bebop
3775
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Posted - 2015.04.12 18:17:55 -
[25] - Quote
Noctaly wrote:I have however no idea how to calculate your 'aligning to the destination time'. Suppose I want to warp to something behind me. I will have to do a 180-¦ turn. How much time will I need for it ? Since I am accelerating while aligning, how can I factor that into my "time to warp" formula ? I have no idea how to calculate this :P
What I can tell you is:
1) if you're going max speed in the 'wrong' direction, turning 180-¦ to warp in the opposite direction takes MUCH more time than aligning from a perfect standstill
2) ship mass and agility affect this: less mass and better agility (a smaller number) will make you turn faster. as others have said, an active AB or MWD increase mass and make things worse: turn them off for a quicker getaway :)
Make space glamorous!
Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
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Eve Solecist
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1693
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Posted - 2015.04.12 18:19:34 -
[26] - Quote
Or the other way round.
You do not see ships which are close to a battleship magically get bumped away just because it turns on it's mwd.
Sheesh, no offense, but it sounds like you don't actually play the game. :)
This one is one of my better posts. You should see the others ....
"I've tried to give up making sexual innuendos. But it's hard, so hard." -RoAnnon
Ron Gilbert made me cry.
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Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders Spaceship Bebop
3775
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Posted - 2015.04.12 18:19:57 -
[27] - Quote
Also: welcome back, Sol, I missed you.
Make space glamorous!
Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
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Eve Solecist
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1693
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Posted - 2015.04.12 18:24:04 -
[28] - Quote
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:Noctaly wrote:I have however no idea how to calculate your 'aligning to the destination time'. Suppose I want to warp to something behind me. I will have to do a 180-¦ turn. How much time will I need for it ? Since I am accelerating while aligning, how can I factor that into my "time to warp" formula ? I have no idea how to calculate this :P What I can tell you is: 1) if you're going max speed in the 'wrong' direction, turning 180-¦ to warp in the opposite direction takes MUCH more time than aligning from a perfect standstill 2) ship mass and agility affect this: less mass and better agility (a smaller number) will make you turn faster. as others have said, an active AB or MWD increase mass and make things worse: turn them off for a quicker getaway :) This is half true.
Ships with an aligntime above the cycletime of a mwd actually benefit from it. A mwd can as well lower your actual aligntime.
This one is one of my better posts. You should see the others ....
"I've tried to give up making sexual innuendos. But it's hard, so hard." -RoAnnon
Ron Gilbert made me cry.
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Eve Solecist
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1693
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Posted - 2015.04.12 18:24:52 -
[29] - Quote
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:Also: welcome back, Sol, I missed you. Awwww you are the only one who said that ..........................
Thanks.......... :/
This one is one of my better posts. You should see the others ....
"I've tried to give up making sexual innuendos. But it's hard, so hard." -RoAnnon
Ron Gilbert made me cry.
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Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders Spaceship Bebop
3775
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Posted - 2015.04.12 18:30:24 -
[30] - Quote
Eve Solecist wrote:Gully Alex Foyle wrote:Also: welcome back, Sol, I missed you. Awwww you are the only one who said that .......................... Thanks.......... :/ But I'm sure I'm not the only one that thought so.
People should express their feelings, it's just... natural!
;)
(;
Make space glamorous!
Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
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