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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 5 post(s) |
Metis AT
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Posted - 2006.10.25 20:07:00 -
[1]
I know we all love ships, but just wondering if the contract system is in yet, and if anyone has played around with it yet.
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Marlenus
Caldari Ironfleet Towing And Salvage
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Posted - 2006.10.25 20:27:00 -
[2]
It's in, and I've successfully put up an auction contract.
Very slick, very useful, huge improvement over existing systems.
Only flaw I saw was tiny display bug, hitting space bar while inputting text did not result in text entry point moving forward a space. Space was inserted into the string, but not displayed in the entry box.
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Mikal Drey
Angels and Demons
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Posted - 2006.10.25 20:28:00 -
[3]
hey hey
Contract system in in and sorta working
Auctions are prenerfed and a bit pointless atm :
They are TAXED !!! why would you use the ingame auction and pay horrendus tax when you already use the forums tax free.
Minimum price is set to 1 mil which should be removed as any item under 1 mil will therefore no longer be sold via auction (not sure on this one but might be a good thing and help cut out single item sales that really should go on main market)
Managed to place a couple of bids but they didnt refresh and the contract never updated. (might be a feature for blind auctions ?? but you wouldnt know how your bid is doing.)
All in all im glad escrow got the heave ho, sadly the contracts system is stil scamable.
Will certainly investigaste more in the morning. Its got ALOT of potential
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Lyn Arinus
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Posted - 2006.10.27 11:50:00 -
[4]
I haven't had a chance to play Kali yet, but does anyone know what the limit on the number of contracts one can issue is? My corp's business employs up to 50 escrows/couriers a day right now, and up to twice that number can be in progress at any one time, so it would be very inconvenient if two dozen alts were needed just to keep things running
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Mephysto
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Posted - 2006.10.27 12:21:00 -
[5]
Forgot a sticky for contracts...
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Shinshi Casoyako
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Posted - 2006.10.27 12:37:00 -
[6]
Auctions should be done in game. This is far more easy than going through 10 pages of forum auctions to check which items are nice to auction. I dont know if its implemanted but I would love to have a way of adding auction to favourites and possible a mail message that someone went over your auction.
This would make an auction far more viable and far more usefull.
Again I am not on sisi but I do read the forums. . Seriously Have I Not Said How I Can Assist Some One You Are Killing Online? |
RobW1
Caldari Iyen-Oursta Salvage
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Posted - 2006.10.27 13:04:00 -
[7]
So we're saying :-
* Remove tax * Fix a couple of display bugs
It's good to go so-far after that :)
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Rylon
Evisceration.
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Posted - 2006.10.27 13:24:00 -
[8]
Originally by: RobW1 * Remove tax
Tax is not a bug.
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Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2006.10.27 13:53:00 -
[9]
Tax = good. Anything expensive enough for the tax to *really* hurt shouldn't be being done by aution or marketplace anyway. If you're selling Dreads or CNDs, you can afford to do it player to player.
Old fashioned way = place an add (forums, bios, whatever) and have people contact you. Meet them, open trade window..........you get the rest. -----------------------------------------------
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rsdyhs
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Posted - 2006.10.27 13:58:00 -
[10]
Edited by: rsdyhs on 27/10/2006 13:58:18 lower tax should be fine
also for corps/ allainces
they put up escrows for no isk ( for remote selling) iff somebody needs the stuff and they got it
iff minimum price = 1 mil, and somebody needs the T1 frigate to kill somebody, they still need to pay 1 mil for a 100K frig
so minimum price should only be for puplic stuff i did not check this out yet
Quote: STUPID ALT
Cyborg3201
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Audrea
Momentum.
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Posted - 2006.10.27 14:04:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Mephysto Forgot a sticky for contracts...
Whats the point of a sticky for a thread with no useful information about the Contracts system, how Loans work exactly, and the other options? ------------------ Save Tranquility! |
Gina Barbagrigia
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Posted - 2006.10.27 14:53:00 -
[12]
Writting this off the top of my head (took bunch of screenies but looks like I forgot to load film ...) so few thing are bound to be missing and/or wrong.
But first, omg thank you so much for this!
You can create: - auction - item exchange - courier - loan - freeform
General They can be public, limited to person/corporation, corporate or alliance.
Contract lasts at max 7 days (can we get some more here please?). You can create one public and 500 corporate contracts. There is Contracting skill which affects limit on public contracts available; sorry, haven't had time to check out its attributes. Oddly enough, even if you create an alliance contract, you are still limited by skill.
Contract creation is done wizzard-style, you fill out few forms and can move forward or back through them. One gripe might be with ones where you select an item (just like any Search function in game) and are presented with list of matches. Would be kinda logical if clicking Ok placed that item in selected items list and not just filled out search box and force you to click Add item again. All in all, very professional
1.) Auctions As said, min starting bid is 1M, buyout is optional. Tax is 1% (no clue if same skills as for trading affect it).
2.) Item exchange WTT basically with option to "even out" value with money. Select item(s) you're offering, search for item(s) you want in exchange, enter amount of ISK you're prepared to give/want in addition to item(s) and that's it.
3.) Courier Select item(s) (btw, this is done Enter escrow style throughout contract creation; select station, check items), search for destination and specifiy reward and collateral.
4. Loan You can loan item(s), money or both. Again you can enter price, collateral and when you want your stuff back. Clueless still about what happens if dude runs away. Guess you just slap high enough collateral on the contract.
5. Freeform Notepad opens up, you spill out your heart and try and sell that You can save templates (didn't work) or load them. Uses same folders as Notepad.
There are filters to set up when you're sifting through pile ... err, contracts whether yours or public ones. After creating each contract you get really neat summary with item/player/corp links and show route and cargo hold requirements and whatnot. You can create them either for yourself or on behalf of your corp (Trader role I assume).
So far I managed to get a Wasp II for an Enyo, worked smoothly. Rest after downtime and teh queue.
Again, this is brief walkthrough. I'll try and get camera fixed and get you some pics from the frontline.
Footnote for devs: - longer duration please - simplify selection of searchable items (when selecting and confirming an item form list, just place it in Added items) - make confirmation window resizable (preferably with saved position/size) - possibly refresh contracts list after submitting new/completing one; everybody will hit refresh anyway - history doesn't seem to be working; also might just display history for contract displayed rather than drop down of all you viewed so far - alliance contracts should have higher skilless count limit - extended size font screws up few things - saving template for freeform didn't work
More to come ... maybe
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Amarria Lightwielder
N.A.G.A Corporation
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Posted - 2006.10.27 15:27:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Amarria Lightwielder on 27/10/2006 15:29:00 I still want to put eyes on my topic: My Topic
Basicly for the web based corps who rely on escrow to sell their goods it should be posible to have close to unlimited personal contracts, either on behalf of your corp or yourself. I don't see the real harm in unlimited personal contracts tbh. The only one who can see the contract is you and your target, so it wont clutter up any screens or anything. Maybe remove tax from personal contracts aswell? They're just a simplifed means of trading goods, public escrows/contracts are more like sellorders..
-edited some typos
Teh NAGA ShopÖ |
Harisdrop
Gallente ClanKillers Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2006.10.27 19:20:00 -
[14]
Will the auction section of the market be setup to place stocks?
I would love to have the stock market active and have that aspect of the game fulfilled
Originally by: Tuxford .....stuff... Btw I did mess a bit with tech 2 ammo, I'll post a bit about that later.
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Lyn Arinus
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Posted - 2006.10.27 20:23:00 -
[15]
It sounds like the Kali contract system is going to ruin a lot of traditional businesses that rely on mass escrows, mine included
Having the contract limit extended by the trader role in a corp is unlikely to be a realistic solution, since you will end up with a huge bookkeeping problem with different players' ISK mixing in the corp wallet, not to mention a giant and unecessary security risk.
Hopefully there will be skills that raise the contract limit, and not just by some paltry amount of a few dozen or so. We will need at least the contract equivalent of Trade, Retail, and Tycoon to keep business running, and probably a lot more considering the variety of contracts that will be avaible which may present as of yet unforeseen business oppurtunities.
The Kali contract system has the potential to become a powerful tool for players to generate game content for each other. I believe a feature like this should have as few restrictions as possible in order to encourage more player interaction through the contract system. Here's to hoping Kali's contract system will live up to its potential and not become the death knell of many businesses...
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RobW1
Caldari Iyen-Oursta Salvage
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Posted - 2006.10.27 20:46:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Rylon
Originally by: RobW1 * Remove tax
Tax is not a bug.
As other people have said, why would I sell a 1.25 Bn isk Caldari Navy Raven (for example) and pay tax on it, through an ingame auction, when I can use the forums for free?
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Sphynx Stormlord
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Posted - 2006.10.27 21:35:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Sphynx Stormlord on 27/10/2006 21:43:11
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Sphynx Stormlord
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Posted - 2006.10.27 21:43:00 -
[18]
Fuller answer, after being repeatedly told that this thread does not exist when trying to edit my previous post.
Originally by: RobW1
As other people have said, why would I sell a 1.25 Bn isk Caldari Navy Raven (for example) and pay tax on it, through an ingame auction, when I can use the forums for free?
Because selling in-game may well have improved visibility, allowing more people to bid, and possibly resulting in a sale price more than 1% higher than that achieved via forums?
1% tax on 1.25 billion is 12.5 million; what this is getting the buyer is the knowledge of when and where the thing they are bidding on is, prompt delivery at the moment the auciton ends, a convienient search interface to find the item in the first place and easily compare it to all the other navy ravens on auction in jita.
So, what do you think: does the average navy raven buyer care about 12.5 million compared to all that convenience? I suspect that they dont, and will be looking for them in-game; people will still buy on the forums, but possibly mostly resellers.
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Harisdrop
Gallente ClanKillers Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2006.10.27 22:28:00 -
[19]
These where the same questions when Blood came out with the new market skills.
I bet the reason they are limiting the amount you have is based on the database qry they did and found most players have 16 avg escrows.
If the majority of the escrows are a few owners then they must adapt. The reason they use the escrow is because they dont use the market.
Adapt.
Originally by: Tuxford .....stuff... Btw I did mess a bit with tech 2 ammo, I'll post a bit about that later.
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Argenton Sayvers
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Posted - 2006.10.28 01:04:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Argenton Sayvers on 28/10/2006 01:08:05
Originally by: Harisdrop If the majority of the escrows are a few owners then they must adapt. The reason they use the escrow is because they dont use the market. Adapt.
When you say adapt, you mean use 10 contract alts, right?
Back when the first contract blogs appeared, there was a lot of discussion about all the topics mentioned in here. Glad it all got ignored. Every "improvement" allows you to do everything you used to be able to do before, just with more lag, more clicks, and more must-have skills to train.
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Gina Barbagrigia
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Posted - 2006.10.28 01:51:00 -
[21]
I'd say people are using escrows for stuff they could sell on market for following reasons (in probably this order):
- scams Contracts nerf scams to an extend. Content is better viewable but since there's one born every minute people will still buy BPCs for ridiculous sums.
- item location There're no restrictions I could see so no change.
- sell order limits Until I see what Contracting skill does this one's hard to comment. But one contract is a bit too restrictive unless some items gain ability to be sold on market, most notably BPCs. Alliance contracts need fixing in this regard and I'm assuming current limit is a bug. There's also situations where you are locked out from places where your stuff is and "Hangar clearance" type auctions just don't cut it. Then again those could be an oportunity for hi skilled traders; claiming such contracts at a discount price then placing individual items on market remotely.
- tax No more free ride but c'mon, 1%? That's really cheap for all the convinience. Would be nice if you could skill it down. Standing effect? If it stays fixed I'm assuming reasoning behind it was that auctions shouldn't be used for mass selling but rather for what auctions are normally used; high value stuff you sell on occasion so taxes don't pile up.
- "what does this button do" Won't change but will be limited due to count limit.
Anyway, early days still but it looks much better than tier 3 bships
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Riley Craven
Caldari Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.10.28 05:32:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Patch86 Tax = good. Anything expensive enough for the tax to *really* hurt shouldn't be being done by aution or marketplace anyway. If you're selling Dreads or CNDs, you can afford to do it player to player.
Old fashioned way = place an add (forums, bios, whatever) and have people contact you. Meet them, open trade window..........you get the rest.
Tax = bad.
Whats the point of adding an auction to the contract system.
1. To ensure some type of locked in system that gives players safety to make deals. 2. To make it easier to search for needed Items. 3. To give people more visibility to get something sold.
Ok these are reasons adding an auction system is good, but adding a tax that only tarnishes this good system.
If people do have such high items, they usually dont have one or two of them... for the most part, these are people that sell these types of items frequently over time.
This means that any tax at all adds up considerably when looking at the time value.
Secondly, because of the tax this gives players less incentive to use the system, especially when there are free resources available to them. I am sure that if they took away the sell order thread it would be a matter of days before someone in the community developed a free site that is much better anyway.
I am simply saying that not only I, but many others are going to avoid paying such outrageous taxes to the system when all the work is mostly player driven to begin with. People that are willing to pay such taxes are effectively idiots because they are just throwing countless millions down the toilet for no reason at all. This is especially true when there are other resources readily available to sell things.
Furthermore, you might have noticed the recent trend lately of people advertising that they want to trade or buy things at a certain price for more visibility via escrow. What's to stop people from abusing the new system and using it to sell things in such a way as well but this time to avoid paying taxes?
My point was already made above. Why create rules that players dont want and are going to try to bypass anyway?
CCP should be trying to make our lives easier not more complicated.
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Zarch AlDain
Friends of Everyone
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Posted - 2006.10.28 10:35:00 -
[23]
Eve needs more isk sinks.
The market is taxed and everyone still uses it.
They already said some trade skills will reduce tax on contracts etc.
I will use the contracts system rather than go out of game as the convenience is worth 1% to me. Try and save the 1% and you will lose more than you save.
Zarch AlDain
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Merdaneth
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Posted - 2006.10.28 11:10:00 -
[24]
Originally by: RobW1
As other people have said, why would I sell a 1.25 Bn isk Caldari Navy Raven (for example) and pay tax on it, through an ingame auction, when I can use the forums for free?
Why should you sell things on Ebay and pay them a percentage when you can sell them on your own website just as easy?
Why would you sell your vegetables on the market when you can sell them just as well at home?
Exposure, easy of use, trust, etc. Lots of reasons.
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Merdaneth
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Posted - 2006.10.28 11:23:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Merdaneth on 28/10/2006 11:23:47
Originally by: Riley Craven
Tax = bad.
Tax = good. It reduces money in circulation and thereby keeps a check on inflation. Additionally, inflation is also caused by the speed in which money circulates, and taxes affect such proportionally.
Originally by: Riley Craven Ok these are reasons adding an auction system is good, but adding a tax that only tarnishes this good system.
On the contrary. Eve is built on this concept. You trade time and skill for money. Bringing demand and supply together will be a lot easier with the new system. This saves time, time = isk, so everyone should be willing to pay for it. I think even if they let the old escrow system stand, people would still use the new system because of the advantages it offers.
Originally by: Riley Craven Secondly, because of the tax this gives players less incentive to use the system, especially when there are free resources available to them. I am sure that if they took away the sell order thread it would be a matter of days before someone in the community developed a free site that is much better anyway.
If using the ingame system saves me 5 minutes as opposed to using the forum, then thats about 1 million I can earn with that time saved. So what if I have to pay 100,000 Isk tax?
Originally by: Riley Craven I am simply saying that not only I, but many others are going to avoid paying such outrageous taxes to the system when all the work is mostly player driven to begin with. People that are willing to pay such taxes are effectively idiots because they are just throwing countless millions down the toilet for no reason at all. This is especially true when there are other resources readily available to sell things.
Just watch, you know your claim isn't true. What you are saying is that thousands of people won't use Ebay because they can sell it through other means just as well. Fact of the matter is, they won't be able to sell it as easily.
Originally by: Riley Craven CCP should be trying to make our lives easier not more complicated.
On the contrary, game design *relies* on making lives easier for its players. If everything is easy, that would remove all challenges. People play games *because* the goals of the games are not easily met. Putting up restrictions and consequences allows more breadth and depth in the game, it gives you more options and decisions.
Just take travel time. It alone creates a huge transport market. To ask CCP to make things easier for players and allow them to automatically transport goods from one station to another for no fee would destroy trade. The difficulties of distance bring live a whole industry.
Have you ever designed games? I think not, because from what you seem to desire, your games would be utterly boring. Easy, sure, boring, yeah...
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Helison
Gallente Times of Ancar THE R0NIN
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Posted - 2006.10.28 12:42:00 -
[26]
Taxes: They are good as long as they are not too high and not possible to circumvent.
Contract slots: This is the real problem, which I see with contracts. Please don¦t make it necessary to create extra alts just for being able to use contracts. Just look at the selling of BPCs: It is not possible to sell BPCs on the market. So they have to be sold with escrows/contracts. => Many contracts needed!
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Harisdrop
Gallente ClanKillers Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2006.10.28 13:19:00 -
[27]
The differences between what should be and what is.
Contract: Limited and searchable good. Escrow: unlimited and non-searcable and the escrow you made 5 minutes ago is lost in the dBase VERY bad
If we stop for a minute and look at the way the market changed when they applied the skills to that we found that the market exploded. Do you remember the stacking problem. It was nasty. a seller could line a station with his goods and no one could ever sell anything. bad. Thats where our escrow is now. If you spam the escrow system now you might be the only player on the escrow screen. Limited contracts will stop only a few 100 players from spammin and let the rest of the player base to post thier 5 contracts. Soo I hope the limit comes in. Soo many times I see that argument be nothing, but a few that will be hurt.
I hope a few things can be applied to the contract system. I would like to have a employment option. Where you can place job wanted contracts and looking for a corp. I think this is where they talk about the forums and the contract system get closer. Where the want ads become truely ingame.
Can we get the GTC in a contract form. If you allow it on the forums why not just place it in a contract. You click to buy a gtc and wham you get the time exstension.
Contract player sales ingame.
Have a contract for station/outpost services.
Have a contract for standings.
Have a contract for alliance acceptance.
Have a contract for employment accpectance.
Have a price check contract.
Have a contract for bounty.
Originally by: Tuxford .....stuff... Btw I did mess a bit with tech 2 ammo, I'll post a bit about that later.
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Harisdrop
Gallente ClanKillers Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2006.10.28 13:22:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Argenton Sayvers When you say adapt, you mean use 10 contract alts, right?
I dont see a problem here. Are you saying people dont have 10 market alts, 10 mining alts, 10 complex alts, and 10 pvp alts?
Thats not like its bad to have alot of alts is it???? I wonder if CCP thinks its bad to have 41 accounts?
Originally by: Tuxford .....stuff... Btw I did mess a bit with tech 2 ammo, I'll post a bit about that later.
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St Dragon
Blood Association of Dragons
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Posted - 2006.10.28 13:42:00 -
[29]
Contracts sound pretty good. -----------------------------------------------
"Kill one man, and you are a murderer. Kill millions of men, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god." -- Jean Rostand |
Naran Darkmood
Gallente MC Cubed Inc Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.10.28 14:57:00 -
[30]
make the tax the same thing Ebay is doing in RL. make it apply to the minium bid you enter and make the lowest possible amount (1 mil) free from tax. Want to sell that Dreadnought without tax? put it on the market for 1 mil isk
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Shabesa
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Posted - 2006.10.28 18:56:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Harisdrop Can we get the GTC in a contract form. If you allow it on the forums why not just place it in a contract. You click to buy a gtc and wham you get the time exstension.
Good one. If we could then use them via ingame tool ...
Quote: Contract player sales ingame.
Bulk trading belongs to Market.
Quote: Have a contract for station/outpost services.
Yup, renting contract would come handy.
Quote: Have a contract for standings. Have a contract for alliance acceptance. Have a contract for employment accpectance. Have a price check contract.
These can be done with Freeform contract although advertising should have separate system.
Quote: Have a contract for bounty.
Do you care who kills him?
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Riley Craven
Caldari Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.10.29 01:34:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Riley Craven on 29/10/2006 01:36:29 "Eve needs more isk sinks."
LOL, you sir do not know eve then. Why does eve have isk sinks now... to keep down inflation.... what inflation? the only infaltion right now is with t2 because of the increase demand of the larger player base... everything else has been on the downward spiral... You can easily find tier 2 bs for 100mil on and off escrow. When I joined, you were lucky to find a bs for less than 120mil. The same has held true for smaller ships... bc's used to be at least 30mil. market average is now 25mi.
There is no inflation you speak of.
"Why should you sell things on Ebay and pay them a percentage when you can sell them on your own website just as easy?Why would you sell your vegetables on the market when you can sell them just as well at home?Exposure, easy of use, trust, etc. Lots of reasons."
I havent sold on ebay and never will. There is always a way to sell goods without giving your money to others... it just depends on you being smart.
"On the contrary. Eve is built on this concept. You trade time and skill for money. Bringing demand and supply together will be a lot easier with the new system. This saves time, time = isk, so everyone should be willing to pay for it. I think even if they let the old escrow system stand, people would still use the new system because of the advantages it offers."
This argument makes no sense. Selling via forum sell order thread takes no time investment at all. I never said people wouldnt use it, just that smart people wouldn't. Why do you think people dont sell cap ships on market... think about... taxes....
"On the contrary, game design *relies* on making lives easier for its players. If everything is easy, that would remove all challenges. People play games *because* the goals of the games are not easily met. Putting up restrictions and consequences allows more breadth and depth in the game, it gives you more options and decisions."
You would be right.... on the topic of just about anything else with the game. The goal with the auction system should be make to it easier for players to come together.. not to make the game easier. I believe taxes hinders the first goal. Secondly dont lecture me on goals. I have built 3 frieghters a carrier and a dred soley of rat loot. It took time and patience, and I did it on my own. What have you done?
"Have you ever designed games? I think not, because from what you seem to desire, your games would be utterly boring. Easy, sure, boring, yeah..."
And you have never taken a general debate class. Dont make statements you cant back up... I in fact have designed games, and designed them to get harder as you go. Make no mistake, I am not advocating to make the game easier... I advocating for CCP to make it easier for players to come together. If you cant see that difference then I cant help you.
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Shabesa
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Posted - 2006.10.29 08:18:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Riley Craven LOL, you sir do not know eve then. Why does eve have isk sinks now... to keep down inflation.... what inflation? the only infaltion right now is with t2 because of the increase demand of the larger player base... everything else has been on the downward spiral... You can easily find tier 2 bs for 100mil on and off escrow. When I joined, you were lucky to find a bs for less than 120mil. The same has held true for smaller ships... bc's used to be at least 30mil. market average is now 25mi.
There is no inflation you speak of.
There's more to inflation than selected items price tags which is true for both sides of the argument. There is inflation, more money per player is circulating game than before. It HAS NOT gone out of hands and frankly 1% MAX tax on some selling isn't gonna change anything.
Quote: Make no mistake, I am not advocating to make the game easier... I advocating for CCP to make it easier for players to come together.
Funny, I think contracts are pretty well on their way to achieve just that. Now instead of owners selling their own stuff they might be inclined to seek professional (read skilled) traders.
But all arguments aside, we'll be paying taxes for last free ride in game. Good or bad it makes no difference. It's in line with rest of economy and we'll have to deal with it. Which is what every game needs, things to deal with.
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Vyktor Abyss
The Abyss Corporation
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Posted - 2006.10.29 16:48:00 -
[34]
I had high hopes for contracts helping to structure some regular corp activities, but most of the chat has been on auctions so far - so please does anyone know if:
- Contract histories are clear and working, are they in a shoq info? - Can you loan a new corpmember a corp covetor for a week for example, with a contracted 'rental' cost of 5 mil Tritanium payable at the end of the contract? - Can you automate contracts to reoccur? Such as mineral supply contracts? - For courier contracts, can you select a POS hangar as a destination? - Do contracts provide the ability to give corpmembers 'jobs', ie have corp contracts for manufacturing 10 frigats by end of week? take new Titan BPO, research to ME1 and deliver to X corp office?
I don't mean to sidetrack your auctions discussions, but any more on this side of contract functionality would be appreciated.
Thanks, Vyk
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Futuri
Caldari Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2006.10.29 17:55:00 -
[35]
Are the new contracts skills seeded already? If yes, what are the stats
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Gina Barbagrigia
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Posted - 2006.10.29 23:56:00 -
[36]
- Contract histories are clear and working, are they in a shoq info? Couldn't get history to work. Show info of what?
- Can you loan a new corpmember a corp covetor for a week for example, with a contracted 'rental' cost of 5 mil Tritanium payable at the end of the contract? No, ISK only.
- Can you automate contracts to reoccur? Such as mineral supply contracts? No.
- For courier contracts, can you select a POS hangar as a destination? Not sure, don't think so.
- Do contracts provide the ability to give corpmembers 'jobs', ie have corp contracts for manufacturing 10 frigats by end of week? take new Titan BPO, research to ME1 and deliver to X corp office? Depends how much you trust your corpies. You could use Freeform to set up jobs but there's next to impossible to code in all the fulfillment triggers one would need.
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Vyktor Abyss
The Abyss Corporation
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Posted - 2006.10.30 02:34:00 -
[37]
Cheers for the answers.
'Show Info' as in when you right click a portrait and can view characters standings...
I'm sure I saw that people's contract histories would be publicly visible...please tell me it is not just for auctions as on ebay, and that loans and other contracts will show histories too.
Hmm...I'm not going to make a final judgement until I've seen it, but so far it just sounds like we have the exact same courier/auction functionality as current escrow with a prettier interface.
Please say it ain't so! |
Packtu'sa
Caldari Nabaal Construction and Industrials Corp Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.10.30 04:20:00 -
[38]
O, m, g.
Remove the taxes.
PLEASE...
It would probably be easier for me to just start speaking into my microphone and say "Hey, does anybody want [x] for [y] ISK at [z] location?" and go through the trouble of finding somebody than it would be for me to set up the contract paying tax on it. Taxes just ruin it, I think, because we could just as well find each other and chat, but it would mean less time in the game and more time surfing a forum.
Packtu'sa Founder/CEO Nabaal Construction and Industrials Corp |
Auk Monnan
Minmatar Hidden Industrial Group
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Posted - 2006.10.30 09:07:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Shabesa
Originally by: Harisdrop
Quote: Have a contract for bounty.
Do you care who kills him?
Well, yes, exactly. The current bounty system is worse than pointless because any pirate whos bounty becomes bigger than his clone cost would pod himself with an alt, keep the isk, and laugh.
Auk Monnan, Chief |
Shabesa
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Posted - 2006.10.30 14:12:00 -
[40]
Ah yes, that. Fixing Bounty system then
Please, make Create contract window resizable. It's a pain when you need to select few items from list of several hundred when only 4 or 5 can be seen at once.
And somewhat related, don't you think it's about time we had remote access to containers?
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Pedo Fortis
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Posted - 2006.10.30 14:37:00 -
[41]
Tax:
why not have a fixed fee rarther than a percantage tax?
How about 50,000K fixed fee.
clearly the contract system is Not designed to replace the market.
1) Low value items sold in bulk on the market. 2) High value individual items sold on the Contract system.
A large enough fixed fee would seperate the low value items from the high value that can handle the fixed fee. there is no need to take 1% of a 60Bil item thus forcing the seller onto the forums.
Pedo Fortis
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Pedo Fortis
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Posted - 2006.10.30 14:39:00 -
[42]
Tax:
why not have a fixed fee rarther than a percantage tax?
How about 50,000K fixed fee.
clearly the contract system is Not designed to replace the market.
1) Low value items sold in bulk on the market. 2) High value individual items sold on the Contract system.
A large enough fixed fee would seperate the low value items from the high value that can handle the fixed fee. there is no need to take 1% of a 60Bil item thus forcing the seller onto the forums.
Pedo Fortis
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Harisdrop
Gallente ClanKillers Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2006.10.30 16:39:00 -
[43]
It should be a scaled tax.
Based on the min value + reserve value.
Soo with 1.8 billion reserve on a 1 bill min you should be taxed 5% - standings and skills
Originally by: Tuxford .....stuff... Btw I did mess a bit with tech 2 ammo, I'll post a bit about that later.
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Argenton Sayvers
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Posted - 2006.10.30 19:34:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Gina Barbagrigia - Contract histories are clear and working, are they in a shoq info? Couldn't get history to work. Show info of what?
- Can you loan a new corpmember a corp covetor for a week for example, with a contracted 'rental' cost of 5 mil Tritanium payable at the end of the contract? No, ISK only.
- Can you automate contracts to reoccur? Such as mineral supply contracts? No.
- For courier contracts, can you select a POS hangar as a destination? Not sure, don't think so.
- Do contracts provide the ability to give corpmembers 'jobs', ie have corp contracts for manufacturing 10 frigats by end of week? take new Titan BPO, research to ME1 and deliver to X corp office? Depends how much you trust your corpies. You could use Freeform to set up jobs but there's next to impossible to code in all the fulfillment triggers one would need.
So instead of the overhyped "solution to IPOs, escrow spam and world hunger", we instead get... what? Taxes on an "auction" system with less entries per screen cm^2?
Instead of thinking hard to create more ways to make players hate and avoid something (skills, taxes, very low limits ...) how about create something useful? back when it was a blog, and not hard reality, we traders already talked how we dont really care about the new system, and that keeping escrow might actually be better for inter-alliance management (think freighter logistics ...). Right now, nothing in the new system makes me even entertain the thought to use it over what is aviable already.
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Cosmic Flame
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Posted - 2006.10.30 20:07:00 -
[45]
This is a GAME people. The fact that taxes even exist on the market or anything else is just... stupid and ridiculous imho. For paying taxes we have reality. We play games to escape from that reality and have some fun, not to be hit with the same certain realities. For that i don't need to play a game.
N'uff said. |
Edheler
Quintessential Xelas Alliance
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Posted - 2006.10.30 20:09:00 -
[46]
Taxes on contracts sound good. If people want to avoid the tax, it should take more effort on their part. Otherwise the convenience gets taxed.
I also agree there shouldn't be a minimum ISK amount for non-public contracts.
Edheler Quintessential CEO
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Krav
Egad Inc. Sparta Alliance
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Posted - 2006.10.31 05:35:00 -
[47]
Edited by: Krav on 31/10/2006 05:46:07
Originally by: Naran Darkmood make the tax the same thing Ebay is doing in RL. make it apply to the minium bid you enter and make the lowest possible amount (1 mil) free from tax. Want to sell that Dreadnought without tax? put it on the market for 1 mil isk
Hella yeah!!!
Krav
EDIT: Ebay works that way because of circulation and convience. This is exactly why contracts will also work if done this way. I personally never scan the forums for prices, I don't care to waste that much time to scrimp and save, it goes beyond my circle of convience, so to speak. Many people are like me in this game, and that's why ciculation of contracts will be higher than circulation of forums.... And that's why it's more likely to sell as a contract within a reasonable period of time. People griping about a 1% tax.. What's your sales tax IRL? Hmm? Yeah that's what I thought. In the immortal words of the Eagles song, "Get over it."
Krav =====
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Vasiliyan
PAX Interstellar Services
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Posted - 2006.10.31 12:07:00 -
[48]
I've played with it. It looks good, and appears to be working fine, although:
- the display is probably going to get cluttered when hunting for auctions, make each item use less vertical space - while it's a good idea to limit the number of contracts (end of escrow spam!) I think the limit of 1 +1 per skill level is too harsh, it should be more like trade, at least 2. - it's not clear whether "Deliver" replaces "Escrow to specific person", I didn't test it.
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Gina Barbagrigia
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Posted - 2006.10.31 15:25:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Vyktor Abyss 'Show Info' as in when you right click a portrait and can view characters standings...
yeah Not sure how it goes with this though.
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Naran Darkmood
Gallente MC Cubed Inc Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.10.31 17:32:00 -
[50]
Just to post it here again:
pretty please add the 'Calculate baseprice' button again whenever there is a minium bid or collateral to be enter. This is an easy way of gauging the average value for hanger sales and transports!
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Vyktor Abyss
The Abyss Corporation
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Posted - 2006.11.01 01:49:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Gina Barbagrigia
yeah Not sure how it goes with this though.
Hmmm...well it looks like the contract history is there, but that message is about as clear as the skies over Manchester. I just hope people's contract histories are visible to all the population, and not restricted to within a corp or alliance...That'd be no aid when considering contracts with strangers.
Thanks for the screenies anyway.
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Kldraina
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Posted - 2006.11.02 23:24:00 -
[52]
Is it at all possible to place items into courier or auction from the assets screen? If it isn't, and selecting an item works like it does now, then courier will be pretty much unusable for me. Currently it takes me several minutes to place a single courier because of how long it takes to load the station list, and search for the station I want (after using the Assets screen to find out what station has the item I'm looking for). I stopped using courier a while ago, because it became unusable for my trade. |
Larshus Magrus
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2006.11.03 15:26:00 -
[53]
My 2 isk's mostly because I'm bored at work.
1) Taxes are good. I'd happily pay the 1% for the larger market exposure. I have a manufacturing alt and I enjoy this part of the game just as much as the pvp aspect.
2) The BoB member stating that because BC and BS prices are lower now than they were last year/2 years ago shows a deflationary economy is, sadly wrong. Inflation in EvE happens on items that are not mass marketed/easily obtainable. It happens on rare items. BC's and and BS's are easily manufactureable by ALOT of players now via BPC's and those who have aquired enough cash to buy the BPOS. Just because margins have fallen to say, 5% on these t1 items because there is more SUPPLY to meet demand does not mean that these items are deflationary.
Inflation/Deflation is a reflection on the entire ISK pool in game (You'd think I do this type of stuff in real life... oh wait, I do!) It is readily apparent by the price of rare modules, ships, and large ships that the isk pool in game is growing, not shrinking. Therefore, there is inflation. Is inflation bad? It can be if its too large. Most stable ecomomies, however, are inflationary and rely on a small amount of inflation to reflect and impact the average standard of living. Inflation fuels growth and hopefully grow is higher than inflation. If so, you have a growing, thriving economy.
CCP: Do you have an economist in house? I know it sounds wierd but the game is getting so big and the markets so dynamic this might not be a bad idea at some point.
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Dr Slurm
General Commodities
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Posted - 2006.11.04 03:43:00 -
[54]
I'll bug report here since some brilliant person took down the bug reporting link:
Contract Creation Main Page: Contract text boxes are the same color as the background, the only way you can find them is by hovering the mouse until you get the I beam.
There's a pop up if you have a name filled in the name box and you also have public checked. If public is checked just ignore the text box.
"Loan":
The loan contract makes no sense. A loan would lending isk (which you can only put isk collateral up for, self defeating) This is more of a rental contract. Which raises interesting questions like: if I loose a ship that is being rented who gets the insurance? Does the insurance transfer from owner to renter? Can the renter buy insurance on it?
Auction: The auction contract affords no minimum bid amount. So we can look forward to 1 ISK bids. Sales tax is applied to courier missions, but not auctions... clever.
Courier: -There's sales tax on a courier mission(ridiculous) -There's a deposit required by the person making the mission(ricoculous) -Collateral is required, which it shouldn't be and it's just annoying having to punch in 1000 isk just to make the popup god happy.
Contract viewing window: Right clicking a contract and clicking View Contract DOES NOT WORK, at all.
General: All search boxes have a minimum of character search. That's really taxing on a system, why not just go with 3 characters like the rest of eve?
Overall my impression of contracts is just plain bad. I didn't have high expectations, but I'm thoroughly disappointed. The most important thing is missing SECURE TRADE OF STOCK. All well almost got it right.
Seriously what's with all the pop ups?
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Oveur
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Posted - 2006.11.04 14:18:00 -
[55]
The contracts you see today is only Phase 1, we'll be deploying improvements and additions to Contracts in every Kali release. This is simply to get the new contract infrastructure to work properly, less bugs, minimize risk of exploits and ensure a smooth transition from the old escrow/courier to the contract system.
Just the visibility rules on the contracts are quite complex. If I do a private contract, to whom should it be visible? If it's a contract for a corporation and I change corporation, do my new corporation see all the contracts from my old corporation?
However, if you find Contracts simple to use today, I'm very happy cause that was one of the goals. How to hide the complexity of the new system.
And just to point out, Contracts is not for volume trading of known items, that's what the Market is for. We'll be allowing more types to the market in Kali which will further emphasize the difference between Contracts and Market.
Senior Producer EVE Online
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Liinn
Harbour Rats Chorus of Dawn
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Posted - 2006.11.04 14:49:00 -
[56]
Edited by: Liinn on 04/11/2006 14:49:17 I dont know if i put this here or in bugs but whats anoys me the most is the limit on currer mission on 20k m3.
I often need corp to move lots of lost of minerals from our refinary station to our factory (living in 0.0). Were talking lots of trit from loot. I was hoping this system would help me with it but it looks diffrent. Now i need to make them in 2 mio chunks and go throught the 4 steps wizard for each 2 mio chunk....
That will take lots of my time.
As u (Oveur) say there will be changes to contracts. Will this be changed in the future to handle more?
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Oveur
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Posted - 2006.11.04 14:52:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Liinn Edited by: Liinn on 04/11/2006 14:49:17 I dont know if i put this here or in bugs but whats anoys me the most is the limit on currer mission on 20k m3.
I often need corp to move lots of lost of minerals from our refinary station to our factory (living in 0.0). Were talking lots of trit from loot. I was hoping this system would help me with it but it looks diffrent. Now i need to make them in 2 mio chunks and go throught the 4 steps wizard for each 2 mio chunk....
That will take lots of my time.
As u (Oveur) say there will be changes to contracts. Will this be changed in the future to handle more?
Didn't even know there was a limitation to courier although I faintly remember something about courier contracts which could have items which couldn't be moved in ships so you automatically failed. Now we have freighters so maybe this limitation can be eased.
Senior Producer EVE Online
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Trek
Minmatar N.A.G.A Corporation
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Posted - 2006.11.04 15:26:00 -
[58]
I have looked a bit at the contracts-system on sisi and I'm glad to hear it is work in progress. However it does look promising!
Something my colleuge Amarria Lightwalker already has brought up however is that the contracts as they are now would hurt NAGA bad since we deliver our orders by means of the escrow system. Only being able to issue one single private contract without skills, and a maximum of 15 at level 5 is a real punch in the guts! My alt used for escrowing stuff has had more than twice that active already today... So having unlimited personal escrows are definetley something that would be nice! They don't clutter the public escrow window for others anyhow.
A function I would like to have would be if we could set up a contract through a link in the IGB. Would love the possibility to fill in which type, receiver for a private contract, comment and the isk wanted/offered field and duration. Item selection through a link might be a bit harder, but wanted items should be possible to fill in.
Also, the possibility to use shift-click to select a bunch of modules in the list for escrow would be nice.
Oh and one more thing! Make the window not block the entire UI so that I can use the other windows at the same time!
--- My other ship is a Reaper
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Oveur
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Posted - 2006.11.04 15:44:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Trek I have looked a bit at the contracts-system on sisi and I'm glad to hear it is work in progress. However it does look promising!
Something my colleuge Amarria Lightwalker already has brought up however is that the contracts as they are now would hurt NAGA bad since we deliver our orders by means of the escrow system. Only being able to issue one single private contract without skills, and a maximum of 15 at level 5 is a real punch in the guts! My alt used for escrowing stuff has had more than twice that active already today... So having unlimited personal escrows are definetley something that would be nice! They don't clutter the public escrow window for others anyhow.
A function I would like to have would be if we could set up a contract through a link in the IGB. Would love the possibility to fill in which type, receiver for a private contract, comment and the isk wanted/offered field and duration. Item selection through a link might be a bit harder, but wanted items should be possible to fill in.
Also, the possibility to use shift-click to select a bunch of modules in the list for escrow would be nice.
Oh and one more thing! Make the window not block the entire UI so that I can use the other windows at the same time!
Last time I checked, private contracts only had a practical limit (50 or sth), not skill based.
Senior Producer EVE Online
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Trek
Minmatar N.A.G.A Corporation
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Posted - 2006.11.04 15:51:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Oveur
Last time I checked, private contracts only had a practical limit (50 or sth), not skill based.
For a minute there I thought I had imagined it all, but no... Strangely enough I can issue two private contracts (item exchange) but when trying to create a third I get this message:
Quote:
You have reached the maximum number of contracts you can create for your skill level (1). Either delete one of your outstanding contracts or wait for it to expire before continuing. Note that expired contracts still have to be completed by you before you can create a new contract. You might be able to increase your level in the skill Contracting in order to have more concurrent outstanding contracts.
--- My other ship is a Reaper
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Gigi Barbagrigia
Latent Appliance Fetishists
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Posted - 2006.11.04 16:38:00 -
[61]
Skills have been put into DB.
As for "NAGA syndrom", why not adding Limit to to Sell order form? Frankly, items at set price for known buyer don't belong in Contracs.
Idea for future (not that I think you're in shortage): Buy contract. Same as Auction but from buyers side.
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Fubear
Vogon Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2006.11.04 21:51:00 -
[62]
I know its far too late in the game, but I would love to see some sort of supply contract. This would be a corp->corp, corp->alliance, or alliance->alliance contract.
The basic idea is that I may create a contract with another corp or alliance where I will buy X item at Y price as long as a minimum quota of Z is filled within a specified time-frame. The supplier would lay down a deposit which gets held in escrow and returned on contract completion or forfeit if they fail to meet the contract requirements.
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Harisdrop
Gallente ClanKillers Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2006.11.05 06:43:00 -
[63]
I see that I can see contracts that are issued to me or by me. I need to see the ones I have bid on also.
Originally by: Tuxford .....stuff... Btw I did mess a bit with tech 2 ammo, I'll post a bit about that later.
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NAFnist
Rage of Angels
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Posted - 2006.11.05 14:37:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Gina Barbagrigia 4. Loan You can loan item(s), money or both. Again you can enter price, collateral and when you want your stuff back. Clueless still about what happens if dude runs away. Guess you just slap high enough collateral on the contract.
wouldnt it be interesting being in business of making people pay back
very interesting - Regards NAFnist |
Dannek
Llama F5 and Associates
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Posted - 2006.11.06 01:00:00 -
[65]
What about adding lending rates to loans?
What's the point of making someone a loan unless you're going to collect interest on it?
Why not allow for amortized payments on loans in order to make a loan contract more attractive to lenders?
Question for peeps: For the collateral on loans, does the lendee get to keep the item in collateral until they default or is it held in some kind of escrow system? Obviously, it's a system that makes more sense if it's the former rather than the latter. -------------------------------------------------------- Working towards my own personal Dreadnought, one ISK at a time. |
Zarch AlDain
Friends of Everyone
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Posted - 2006.11.06 13:55:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Dannek What about adding lending rates to loans?
What's the point of making someone a loan unless you're going to collect interest on it?
Why not allow for amortized payments on loans in order to make a loan contract more attractive to lenders?
Question for peeps: For the collateral on loans, does the lendee get to keep the item in collateral until they default or is it held in some kind of escrow system? Obviously, it's a system that makes more sense if it's the former rather than the latter.
It would need to be held in escrow, as generally collatoral is worth more than the loan.
(i.e. lend someone 50 mill, get a raven in collatoral. Laugh and sell the raven.)
Zarch AlDain
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Dannek
Llama F5 and Associates
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Posted - 2006.11.06 21:05:00 -
[67]
Why even bother having loans in the game then? If I can't access my stuff, which is worth significantly more than the liquid value I'm getting through the loan, why would I bother?
The loans are worthless trash if they exist as it seems they've been described.
I mean, the only purpose I can think of for having a loan system where the collateral is held in escrow, no interest can be earned, and the payments needs to be made in a lump sum is to build up a contract rating for scammers. -------------------------------------------------------- Working towards my own personal Dreadnought, one ISK at a time. |
Secretary
Bargain consumables
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Posted - 2006.11.07 00:28:00 -
[68]
Would it be possible to increase "alliance" private contract limit to 100 or some arbitrary number between 10 and 100 to reflect closer business ties within the alliance, having it set to 1 just like any other contract is slightly weird.
As for tax saying that 1% tax won't interfere with the masses of isk floating around and then asking for it to be removed seems.. illogical.
For loans, you borrow 100 million isk over a 2 week period for a fee set by the lender and you provide them with a raven as collateral. after 2 weeks, you either pay up or you lose the raven. If you can't make 100 million isk turn into more cash inside the contract period then you shouldn't have borrowed the money in the first place. I'm just not seeing any problem with the loan system as it stands unless you want to scam people, which isn't the best platform to stand on and demand changes to game mechanics. The market will balance out a loan rate that is acceptable to the lenders and the borrowers.
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Ruze
No Applicable Corporation
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Posted - 2006.11.07 00:58:00 -
[69]
Thank you for allowing us to view contracts in other regions.
Downside? 'Create Contract' is a d-mned modal window. Please don't use modal windows. They suck -ss. Really.
Genesis Project |
Yllse
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Posted - 2006.11.07 12:47:00 -
[70]
Does the one million isk minimum still stand?
While most cheaper stuff does just fine on the market, this would make buying and selling BPCs difficult at best. Packs of light missile BPCs, for example, sell for about 190,000 on escrow, far too low for the contract system.
Do BPCs become available on market? I can't imagine the nightmare of coding the market to accept such variable items, or using it to find them, for that matter.
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petergriffen
Amarr Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2006.11.07 22:55:00 -
[71]
Edited by: petergriffen on 07/11/2006 23:00:46 How about this...
Contract system for bounty hunters:
Player A is killed by Player B. Player A has kill rights to Player B. Player A creates a contract that Player C accepts. Player A loses kill rights. Player C inherits kill rights.
These contracts can only be made by someone who has kill rights. The contract can be made for any number of days, as long as it doesn't pass the original expiration date. If the contract is not accepted, Player A maintains kill rights. Player A does not lose kill rights until the contract is accepted.
Oh, and Player B doesn't know who is after him, but the kill rights window could show something along the lines of "You have a contract on your head!"
And no, Player B would not be able to buy his own contract and kill himself for the reward :)
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Vyktor Abyss
The Abyss Corporation
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Posted - 2006.11.08 00:59:00 -
[72]
I love the idea. Simple but effective.
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Cryten Jones
Gallente Eldritch Storm
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Posted - 2006.11.08 12:07:00 -
[73]
Originally by: petergriffen Edited by: petergriffen on 07/11/2006 23:00:46 How about this...
Contract system for bounty hunters:
Player A is killed by Player B. Player A has kill rights to Player B. Player A creates a contract that Player C accepts. Player A loses kill rights. Player C inherits kill rights.
These contracts can only be made by someone who has kill rights. The contract can be made for any number of days, as long as it doesn't pass the original expiration date. If the contract is not accepted, Player A maintains kill rights. Player A does not lose kill rights until the contract is accepted.
Oh, and Player B doesn't know who is after him, but the kill rights window could show something along the lines of "You have a contract on your head!"
And no, Player B would not be able to buy his own contract and kill himself for the reward :)
\o/ for the good ideas brigade !!!
-CJ
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Cryten Jones
Gallente Eldritch Storm
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Posted - 2006.11.08 12:15:00 -
[74]
I am also a little grumpy that the internaly usefull contracts are not in. That is the ones where you can make corp activities run without the brass being on 24/7
for the forgetfull in the crowd that's the ones that work like this
Contract made for to supply 1000 ice In the contract you provide the barge and the miners to do the job The pilot who takes the contract takes the ship and mines the 1000 ice. The Ice and barge are returned to the the cotract which then pays out the ISK for the ice.
This was the one thing that I realy wanted to so tbh all the other things already have a system, rubbish or not, but they have systems to do the jobs in place and functional. This a bounty are the two things that do not have a viable system inplace already!
-CJ
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Rick Dentill
Lynx Frontier Inc. Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.11.08 13:39:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Packtu'sa O, m, g.
Remove the taxes.
PLEASE...
What is the big deal over taxes? 1% is nothing. Hot **** I wish the UK government only charged me 1% tax. _______
* Disclaimer * Some or all of the above post may not be entirely accurate. |
Vyktor Abyss
The Abyss Corporation
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Posted - 2006.11.09 00:40:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Cryten Jones I am also a little grumpy that the internaly usefull contracts are not in. That is the ones where you can make corp activities run without the brass being on 24/7
for the forgetfull in the crowd that's the ones that work like this
Contract made for to supply 1000 ice In the contract you provide the barge and the miners to do the job The pilot who takes the contract takes the ship and mines the 1000 ice. The Ice and barge are returned to the the cotract which then pays out the ISK for the ice.
This was the one thing that I realy wanted to so tbh all the other things already have a system, rubbish or not, but they have systems to do the jobs in place and functional. This a bounty are the two things that do not have a viable system inplace already!
-CJ
I'm in the same boat mate...Exactly what I wanted contracts to deliver - giving corps more structure, and people more 'jobs'.
I wonder about the Dev's comments earlier - he does say this is phase 1 of contracts, so maybe we'll get the new funtionality (not just a rework of existing stuff) in phase 2....? Though I'm always too optimistic for my own good!
- Ideas are my business...maybe thats why I'm always broke! Science Ships
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Vyktor Abyss
The Abyss Corporation
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Posted - 2006.11.09 01:05:00 -
[77]
Edited by: Vyktor Abyss on 09/11/2006 01:08:16
Originally by: Oveur
Just the visibility rules on the contracts are quite complex. If I do a private contract, to whom should it be visible? If it's a contract for a corporation and I change corporation, do my new corporation see all the contracts from my old corporation?
Sorry to spam the thread, but I wanted to try to understand and clarify this part a little more.
My interest as a CEO is in just seeing if individuals and corps are reputable and have honoured their previous contracts or not. A tick or a cross would do against each contract along with perhaps the type (loan, auction, *supply, *bounty) - My understanding was this would be visable similar to standings for individuals and corps. (* see above posts)
I think the fine details of each private contract should only remain visible to the individual and corp involved. Though as I've said it should be public if these contracts were fulfilled.
I mean it's not rocket science is it mate?!
- Ideas are my business...maybe thats why I'm always broke! Science Ships
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A Brr
Gallente Tech-5-Inc.
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Posted - 2006.11.09 11:50:00 -
[78]
The flow of contracts after they have been fullfilled is a pain. You have to check for the expired contract, and then claim the money. In case of my test auction, the contract is stuck in expired state, and i am now able to claim the isk multiple times, and get them on my wallet (Exploit!!!). And due to the stuck auction, i am unable to create a new one. Ever considered persons trying to sell an indy of loot of TS, DG... Stuff - one by one in an angame auction? This will take for ever, because their only possibility to start a second auction is, after the first have finished.
Perhaps i have to update my signature and add the new contract system to it... --- The greatest crap CCP designed into EVE: Next generation manufacturing. |
Mikal Drey
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Posted - 2006.11.09 12:58:00 -
[79]
This contract is the The Forge region. You can only access outstanding public contracts in the region you are currently ?
So you can view any region contract but cant place any bids Cross region ?
New patch was Dl'ed but previously i have been able to :(
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Trek
Minmatar N.A.G.A Corporation
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Posted - 2006.11.09 13:54:00 -
[80]
Came up with an improvement for the contrats system last night that would make my life a lot easier: "Renegotiable" contracts, would work something like this:
A customer places a buy contract for 10 items and offer 10M isk. Unfortunatley there only is 9 of the items in stock, so I offer 9 of them and also 1M isk to compensate for the missing item. Since the contract was renegotiated by me it does not complete at once, insted the buyer now gets the contract back and can either accept the offer (pay 10M get 1M back and 9 of the items) or decline (voiding the contract, gets 10M back and I get my stuff and 1M back (minus broker fees etc ofc))
I would also imagine that all of the time the contract is registered to the buyer and uses one of his/her slots.
So, do anyone (apart from me) think this would be a good idea? --- My other ship is a Reaper
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EvilNate
Caldari Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.11.09 14:32:00 -
[81]
I have a question regarding contracts. Is it possible to make and complete a contract in space?
I'm thinking about the selling of capital ships like Titans and Motherships, where you can't dock to set an escrow or do a trade. Will we be able to sell and buy these ships using contracts in Kali?
nate
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Toguruk
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Posted - 2006.11.12 09:30:00 -
[82]
WTF??!! If you can afford to buy or sell a bpo or item worth any REAL amount of isk ( im talking 10-100b ), you can afford to pay ONE FREAKIN %!! The forums SUCK!! They are full of scamers, fake sellers, fake buyers and people just generally wasting SEROIUS buyer's and seler's time "price checking" their items with auctions they never intended to actually go thru with. people making bids with isk they only WISH they had..the list go's on and on and on.. Not to mention thet that lousy )NE % will be able to be skilled down, wtf is everyone complaining about?? Pass it on to the buyer if your THAT cheap!! The tax is just the cost of doing biz.. deal with it. Originally by: Packtu'sa O, m, g.
Remove the taxes.
PLEASE...
It would probably be easier for me to just start speaking into my microphone and say "Hey, does anybody want [x] for [y] ISK at [z] location?" and go through the trouble of finding somebody than it would be for me to set up the contract paying tax on it. Taxes just ruin it, I think, because we could just as well find each other and chat, but it would mean less time in the game and more time surfing a forum.
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Schani Kratnorr
Federal Volunteers Office
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Posted - 2006.11.12 15:18:00 -
[83]
Does it bother anyone else that courier mission packages cannot be put in the cargo of a freighter? I know that's also how it works on tranq. today, but for the new contracts system to have that final icing on the cake, how about making it possible?
Courier mission packages in freighters, yes please. Let us the trucking begin. -- Support democracy! - Because it has to work |
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Code Monkey
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Posted - 2006.11.13 19:26:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Schani Kratnorr Does it bother anyone else that courier mission packages cannot be put in the cargo of a freighter? I know that's also how it works on tranq. today, but for the new contracts system to have that final icing on the cake, how about making it possible?
Courier mission packages in freighters, yes please. Let us the trucking begin.
Without promising anything, it looks like we will be able to put courier packages on Freighters and will have a similar maximum storage capacity per contract as Freight Containers do (120K m^3 or thereabouts).
Thank you all for great feedback btw, this stuff really helps us out. We have already implemented a variety of fixes based on comments on the forums. |
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Cudaya Ebsldes
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Posted - 2006.11.14 04:03:00 -
[85]
I seldom post but part of this discussion annoys me.
Taxes (so called) big deal, they are passed along anyway.
What annoys me is the attempt, which might be successful, to make the contract system into another escrow-EVE-wide market. There are regional markets in EVE (I think for compelling reasons) and there is no reason why all T-2 items could not be placed on these markets except for the ease of sale thru escrow, which is a perversion of its original intent as a simple transfer mechanism between players.
In my opinion, if the players who hold the most isk and the most accounts succeed in creating an EVE wide market, then the game will become virtually unplayable from an economic point of view. When people form cartels why then have them force their will thru the whole EVE universe. In real life there is no such thing as a world wide cartel, the closest example that would spring to mind would be Middle East oil, but that is not a perfect cartel as there are also pressures which check its absolute power, namely regional variation of needs, politics etc.
I am a sometimes tech 1 small manufacturer. With mineral prices being manipulated it is hard to impossible to hold prices down, and a cursory comparison of, say tech 1 ships, easily demonstrates the inflation of tech 1 and, depending on manufacturer policies and goals, the regional variations. This creates opportunities for resellers and for bargain hunters amongst other strategies.
The æuniversal marketÆ of which escrow was becoming (had not become as the listings were rotated due to volume) if forced into reality in the contract system (unlimited universal selling) à.. ...then EVE is not longer even a game of chance. Money is fungible. (real life money that is)
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Kaladr
Amarr No Quarter.
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Posted - 2006.11.15 21:11:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Code Monkey
Originally by: Schani Kratnorr Does it bother anyone else that courier mission packages cannot be put in the cargo of a freighter? I know that's also how it works on tranq. today, but for the new contracts system to have that final icing on the cake, how about making it possible?
Courier mission packages in freighters, yes please. Let us the trucking begin.
Without promising anything, it looks like we will be able to put courier packages on Freighters and will have a similar maximum storage capacity per contract as Freight Containers do (120K m^3 or thereabouts).
Thank you all for great feedback btw, this stuff really helps us out. We have already implemented a variety of fixes based on comments on the forums.
\o/ Excellent! :) ---- EVE-Central.com - Cross-region market view and trade finder |
Yodd
Blue Labs
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Posted - 2006.11.17 06:51:00 -
[87]
How do I accept a freeform contract? All I see is a close and delete button, I must have missed something..
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Argenton Sayvers
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Posted - 2006.11.18 16:16:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Cudaya Ebsldes ...
You got it backwards. Escrow never much to do with t2, as its far too painful to bother with. I sold pilgrim + cloak packages via escrow because market was too limited to allow such kinds of nuances. If i wanted to controll Pilgrim prices, id just put regionwide buy orders using my army of alts. Its a lot easier to create monopols with the market system, since you can controll it afk. Alts + eve-central = global market. Welcome to yesterday.
Escrow was a place for easy asset transfer and faction item sales. For packages etc. It was a very good basic idea, just flawed in execution. From what i have seen and heard of the new system, id rather kept the old.
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GreyMana
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Posted - 2006.11.18 16:39:00 -
[89]
I have some troubles when it's coming to BPCs. Kali should improve the BPC usage (for invention). Sadly with the current skills you can only put up 15 escrows, which are much to few if you imagine that 1 BPC is 1 contract. This means you can put 15 BPCs into escrow per character. Theoretically you can't even cover all battleships (12 in Kali) and battlecruisers (6 in Kali) at the same time and only having 1 BPC available. So you would need to cycle arround and arround to adjust the current most requested types. With an increase demand on BPCs (for Invention) this could be very frustrating. Imagine you have some Cruiser BPCs for sale and you notice that Prophecy BPCs are the hit of the day. You would need to cancel the existing ones.
It would be cool if you could put up 6 BPCs in one contract and allow the people only to claim 1 of them. Else I can see the forum getting spammed over BPCs offers by several people, bumped every day at least once since prices on them change really quick.
At least leave the old escrow system for BPCs only. Else small shipbuilders might scream their hearts out, because everbody is only selling 10 runs ( = 1 contract) instead of 1 runs ( = 10 contracts).
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Matalino
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.11.19 04:16:00 -
[90]
A quick question, what is going to happen to all the existing Escrow/Courier mission when we change over to contracts? Are they all going to be cancelled, or will they all be converted to contracts, or has a decision been made?
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Tachy
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Posted - 2006.11.19 08:55:00 -
[91]
This thread doesn't contain a single new idea or problem over the formerly stickified thread from General Discussions linked to the respective DevBlog.
You run into each and every issue and problem pilots pointed out back then, one by one. (Plus a few because of coding and brainicydal issues from the implementation process, but that's how programming works. At least dupes are generally avoided before they hit Tranquikity.)
I really like the system so far. It is inflexible, needs a lot of extra clicks over the escrow system and generally doesn't help. It works like the new, improved and fantastic science&industry interface. At least it does what Valar needs. Localised acccess to the system, limited number of entries, out of game replacement for escrow for ease of use and tax avoiding so servers and network are having less load. Well, maybe popped freighters will grow the ability to drop cans in the process ...
The first hints on the contract system did sound fantastic. Now it has been EAed.
Oh, if it really uses the (client side stored) notepad system, has that been redesigned so it doesn't get borked on a regular basis? Most pilots stopped using it because it applies low pressure in large quantities to hairy reproductive organs and tends to eat your information when you really need it. --*=*=*--
The cause for this is not yet known, but we do have a possible fix in testing. by Sharkbait | 2006.09.20 |
Schani Kratnorr
Federal Volunteers Office
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Posted - 2006.11.20 11:44:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Code Monkey
Originally by: Schani Kratnorr Does it bother anyone else that courier mission packages cannot be put in the cargo of a freighter? I know that's also how it works on tranq. today, but for the new contracts system to have that final icing on the cake, how about making it possible?
Courier mission packages in freighters, yes please. Let us the trucking begin.
Without promising anything, it looks like we will be able to put courier packages on Freighters and will have a similar maximum storage capacity per contract as Freight Containers do (120K m^3 or thereabouts).
Thank you all for great feedback btw, this stuff really helps us out. We have already implemented a variety of fixes based on comments on the forums.
Thank you very much. That would be a good temporary fix if it can be done. I DO think many freighter pilots will welcome it.
I have suggested elsewhere that the limit be removed altogether (ships take up room). I would like to see true "trucking companies" emerge in EVE. -- Support democracy! - Because it has to work |
Mazare Mircea
Gallente Delta team Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.11.23 06:04:00 -
[93]
Edited by: Mazare Mircea on 23/11/2006 06:08:36 I was looking forward for the new Contract system, and from what i read in this thread - didn't have enough Singularity time lately, it is a good step in the right direction ... the problem is that the way it was implemented it may kill the playing style of some players. Especially the builders/traders that atm use escrow. Ohhh sure it is easy to say "pay 1% of what you sell as tax", but what happens when you work on a 5-6% profit margin and you are undercut by you're competition ? You pay 1% for each time you submit the contract again ? What happens if you negociate with someone and all of the sudden he/she changes his/hers mind after isuing a contract in his/her name ? What happens when you sell a Rattlesnake, a very expensive faction ship, worth close to 2 bil isk. You operate on a profit margin of 5%, that is 100 mil profit, if and when you get to sell it - they sell very hard and always have sold as such, if some other fellow undercuts you, can you lower you're price without re-issuing the contract ?
Well this is a post part rant and part simple questions. I will get an answer in a few hs when i hope to get on the test server. Atm to me it seems that if the tax is not carefully implemented it can kill the business of all those that used Escrow for trading in a honest way and will definitely badly affect the scammers ... and this actually helps me a lot. :) A disease is not destroyed by killing the pacient gentlemen. :) -----
Do androids dream of electric sheep ? |
Caroglac
Amarr The Arrow Project The ARR0W Project
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Posted - 2006.11.23 20:00:00 -
[94]
one daydream I had recently involved being able to sell/trade contracts...
IE person A contracts with person B to supply person B with a product on a specific day...
then person B sells the contract to person C ... contract would need to change dynamicly so that it would now be between person A and person C...
if eve's new contract system could do something like that..... things like a mineral exchange or "futures" market where any and all ingame goods are bought/sold would work. Cap Ship Sales |
Drachenlord
Amarr VentureCorp Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2006.11.24 06:23:00 -
[95]
Would Certainly be nice to get a dev responose....
Is there a reason that you can view contracts in other regions, but not do anything with them? For instance, if I'm after a fairly rare item, and I find it in Tash Murkon.... but I'm sitting in Deklein... I would have to fly down and HOPE the item is still there when I arrive in an area I can buy the item from..... OR, make an army of alts.... park them in all the major locations, and hope I get that character logged in before someone else gets it.
Neither situation sounds favorable for anyone that may be trying to buy and sell rare and sought after items over the contracts system... because usually the people looking are out in 0.0, and the interesting contracts are in empire....
PLEASE... do you plan to allow people to bid/buy/sell, etc items that are in other regions from where they are sitting??? -------------------------------------------------
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Buckor
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Posted - 2006.11.24 15:17:00 -
[96]
I'm fully agree with Drachenlord !! Dev, plz, do something change.
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Fliewatuet
Angelus dos Business
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Posted - 2006.11.24 17:46:00 -
[97]
Edited by: Fliewatuet on 24/11/2006 17:58:24 Don't be angry Drachenlord. It doesn't matter if you can do things with items from other regions or not. Since you have to select another region first and it takes hours to look through every other region the market will continue to do what it started already:
It will concentrate in Jita!
Yeah, we all know, CCP wants to fight global trade hubs. I guess they want a big fight if they first have to actively grow the existing once. Or perhaps they just want to kill all the smaller trade hubs so they only have to fight Jita. :D
I've started buying and selling faction, officer and plex items month ago. First i sold them in the next-best high-sec system, usually where i bought them in the first place. Then i noticed something: If i put up two equal items, one in Jita, one somewhere else - the one in Jita almost always sold first. Somedays days before the other sold. For the same price. So since then, i started selling my stuff only in jita now. I'm one of those guys with 50-70 escrows. I'm updating them at least twice a day.
CCP misjudged the current desire of most players. Ok, it is true, the most valuable items, especially officer items, are rare and expensive and usually best sold in auctions. But most of the stuff on escrow doesn't belong to auctions. I've bought stuff on auctions for perhaps a year. I encountered lots of dishonest, unexperienced or just stupid sellers among the good and honest ones.
The new contract system looks nice on the first view. But most players just play the game to have fun. They don't want to spend their time waiting for a good offer on an item they want. They don't want to travel 20 jumps around to get items for less. Most players buy their market needs in the system they are, even if its more expensive. And they want to get the item NOW, not in some days if the auction runs out. Most ppl don't want auctions for faction items from 10 to 400M isk value. And they are ready to pay more just so they don't have to wait for those items. Thats why i'm earning good money with escrow trading currently. :)
Regards, Fliewatuet -- |
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