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Puke
E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2006.10.24 15:46:00 -
[1]
I'd just thought I'd share with you all the knowledge that has spread through the ranks of varying hostile pilots of IRON. They have become exceptional PvPers, in the fact that not only do they not put stabs on their ships any more, but they are still able to evade us!!
You may say IRON pilots are growing weak, and were never any good at PvP in the first place. However, I will now share with you the secret to their success at evading our guns.
At the first sign of trouble, they log off. They warp into a gate we sit at. They log. They jump into our dictor bubble. They log. They dissapear from space with no aggression and vanish for good. That's no secret you say!! Well your right. Thus I move onto the second step of thier master tactics.
If by some unfortunate event they have not managed to log off in time before we agress them, they still log off. They then log on a different character from the same account. Thus their warp scrambled, agressed main, who is in some deepest doo doo, disappears totally from space, even though they are agressed.
So just to recap. When you play eve in dangerous 0.0 space. Make sure that you have a second client ready with all the exact same account details typed in. When you get in a bit of trouble, simple alt tab out, login on the second client and select a different character to log in with. Within 20 or so seconds, your main is totally safe, even from probing if your aggressed.
I have spoken to the GM's and apparently this is not an exploit. It is quite legitimate to want to log on a noob alt in empire anytime you wish, under any circumstances.
Good luck with this. I hope it helps.
*Disclaimer* :- Purpose of this post is to raise awareness. So more people use it and more people moan about it, and then it may get fixed.
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Infinity Ziona
Privateers
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Posted - 2006.10.24 15:53:00 -
[2]
Sounds sweet, that'll go perfect with our new local change. Now all we need is a /PvP On/Off command |
Alferd
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Posted - 2006.10.24 16:05:00 -
[3]
From an objective viewpoint, logging is a combat tactic, plain and simple, just like any other tactic such as F1...F2... etc. There seems to me to be an excessive case of twisted panties over this. Snipers are unhappy when their prey use what the snipers consider to be an unfair tactic. They grouse about the carebears, then proceed to whine as if they were one, with their crying over logging.
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Segmentor
Hunters Agency Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2006.10.24 16:08:00 -
[4]
This is just sad. Very kind of you to send this message out to the whole universe, now we will get even more logoffski w***es... Sad, very sad... ---
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Irashi
Caldari Hunters Agency Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2006.10.24 16:09:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Infinity Ziona Sounds sweet, that'll go perfect with our new local change. Now all we need is a /PvP On/Off command
WCS?
Dominix, Nosferatu, ECM, Webber, Tank, Drones, Spare cash, Insurance, No implants, Reckless attitude, Unresolved personal issues: Win |
Dark Shikari
Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2006.10.24 16:13:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Puke So just to recap. When you play eve in dangerous 0.0 space. Make sure that you have a second client ready with all the exact same account details typed in. When you get in a bit of trouble, simple alt tab out, login on the second client and select a different character to log in with. Within 20 or so seconds, your main is totally safe, even from probing if your aggressed.
And even better, it gets you out of bubbles too!
Welcome to the new EVE. Coming in Kali 2: /pvp on and /pvp off!
-[23] Member-
Awesome new space games site, from the editor of E-ON! |
Robert Dobbs
Evolution Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.10.24 16:14:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Puke I have spoken to the GM's and apparently this is not an exploit. It is quite legitimate to want to log on a noob alt in empire anytime you wish, under any circumstances.
It not being an exploit doesn't stop it from being shft. -
--------- Listen to BoB Radio!! |
Darksaber64x
Ecchi co.
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Posted - 2006.10.24 16:17:00 -
[8]
Pathetic.
I know honor dosn't mean much for some people, but I'd rather sit and die than log off and lose my personal sense of dignity.
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Infinity Ziona
Privateers
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Posted - 2006.10.24 16:21:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Alferd From an objective viewpoint, logging is a combat tactic, plain and simple, just like any other tactic such as F1...F2... etc. There seems to me to be an excessive case of twisted panties over this. Snipers are unhappy when their prey use what the snipers consider to be an unfair tactic. They grouse about the carebears, then proceed to whine as if they were one, with their crying over logging.
People dont want to play chess with someone who throws the chessboard when they lose a piece, or a soccer team that spits the dummy and goes home at half time cause they're a point down, or... a guy that disconnects his computer from a pretend gameworld to save his pretend spaceship when the risk he took didnt pay off.
Its pathetic to care so much about a computer games assets and thats why people hate it. Basically if your going to cheat, at least cheat at something worthwhile ffs. Your selling yourself short imo. The Privateering Life |
Locke DieDrake
Human Information Virus
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Posted - 2006.10.24 16:23:00 -
[10]
This is part of the reason I left the alliance. What is the point of PVP if PVP means : Gang jumps in, holds the gate and anyone that shows up logs out instantly to avoid fighting. So you move on and watch it happen in every system you go to.
What a joke.
Eve needs an arena or something similar to allow people that actually want to fight, to do so. Maybe we could even manage to get odds that aren't totally out of whack.
Nah, that'll never work. ___________________________________________ The deeper you stick it in your vein, the deeper the thoughts there's no more pain. ___________________________________________
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D2O HeavyWater
Synergy. Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2006.10.24 16:27:00 -
[11]
From my time in joining the IRON ops I have learned a new Russian word.
Its "Logoffski"
Yarrr
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Ranger 1
Amarr Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2006.10.24 16:28:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Alferd From an objective viewpoint, logging is a combat tactic, plain and simple, just like any other tactic such as F1...F2... etc. There seems to me to be an excessive case of twisted panties over this. Snipers are unhappy when their prey use what the snipers consider to be an unfair tactic. They grouse about the carebears, then proceed to whine as if they were one, with their crying over logging.
No.
Logging off the moment things look risky is NOT a combat tactic. It is the concious decision to not play when there is an element of risk involved.
Big difference.
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Jurskjeld
Minmatar Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2006.10.24 16:30:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Jurskjeld on 24/10/2006 16:31:24 If people logging off cause you to care this much, I think a kind of dumb vengeance becomes predominant when it shouldn't. Seriously, you can snipe and suicide bomb and do so much to kill people, yet there's no "nber" way of defending oneself. For God's sake let it go already. :D Those who are a bit... chickeny will choose this approach. I won't. -- Amarr scum be pushing gas, Caldari dogs are kissing their ***.
Gallente and Minmatar together stand forever as the holy band. |
Locke DieDrake
Human Information Virus
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Posted - 2006.10.24 16:30:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Alferd From an objective viewpoint, logging is a combat tactic, plain and simple, just like any other tactic such as F1...F2... etc. There seems to me to be an excessive case of twisted panties over this. Snipers are unhappy when their prey use what the snipers consider to be an unfair tactic. They grouse about the carebears, then proceed to whine as if they were one, with their crying over logging.
This is foolish. You really think logging off is the same as activating your modules?
Hey, whats that module called that makes your ship disapear from the entire game universe under any circumstance whenever you want, and has 0 fitting cost, and 0 activation cost?
I understand that people sometimes have to log out due to real life. Thats cool. But if you are in a risky place, and you have to log out, then your ship is forfeit. CCP needs to decide. Either this is a harsh game where your actions can have very negative consequences, or it's not, and you might as well remove any death penalty.
If you log out in space, your ship should NEVER disapear. It should not warp out of scramble/bubbles and when you log back in, it should take 30 seconds before you can move or activate modules.
___________________________________________ The deeper you stick it in your vein, the deeper the thoughts there's no more pain. ___________________________________________
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Alferd
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Posted - 2006.10.24 16:31:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Infinity Ziona
Originally by: Alferd From an objective viewpoint, logging is a combat tactic, plain and simple, just like any other tactic such as F1...F2... etc. There seems to me to be an excessive case of twisted panties over this. Snipers are unhappy when their prey use what the snipers consider to be an unfair tactic. They grouse about the carebears, then proceed to whine as if they were one, with their crying over logging.
People dont want to play chess with someone who throws the chessboard when they lose a piece, or a soccer team that spits the dummy and goes home at half time cause they're a point down,.
Those aren't ordinary combat tactics in those games. Logging isn't the same thing. If it were, CCP would outlaw it.
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Viktor Fyretracker
Caldari Worms Corp
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Posted - 2006.10.24 16:31:00 -
[16]
id call logging off being a chicken, but really its no better then the people who sit 200km from the gate in sniperthrons. both are chickens as they both choose to avoid risk.
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Puke
E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2006.10.24 16:48:00 -
[17]
In case you guys are not too familiar with IRON tactics. We don't choose to do sniping, we will if forced to. But we don't sit 200km off of gates.
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Quin Tal
Fort Knox Inc Expeto Libertas Foedus
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Posted - 2006.10.24 16:51:00 -
[18]
If /pvp flags are coming, can we have battlegrounds and CTF!?
Sarcasm, btw.
Interesting ideas though Puke, I will have to try them :)
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XxAngelxX
Amarr E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2006.10.24 16:54:00 -
[19]
A good example of this was the other day - I sat at a hostile POS that was in re-inforced and watched a hauler load up all of the expensive stuff. I knew where he was heading, and I knew from previous experience he'd be full of stabs. So...I get my other char, get in a dictor and go and sit the other side of the gate to wait for him. So I waited for a bit longer, and he came, and I locked him. And he logged off. Fair enough I thought, I dont expect anything less. Sod it, I'll probe him out. But he dissapears off scan, and this character swopping isnt an exploit, because apparently according to the GM's, it is merely a co-incidence that this hauler decided to log off and switch character, probably to check the market.
I like killing stuff, it is part of the game. I've been blown up a fair few times myself, but I guess I could have just logged off.
It makes Covert Op's with probes redundant, Interdictor spheres redundant, Warp Bubbles redundant, Stabs redundant...PVP redundant. It's only so long before everyone just uses this tactic.
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Cmdr Sy
Off Balance Sheet Entity
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Posted - 2006.10.24 17:16:00 -
[20]
I thought this had been fixed a year ago.
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Kalixa Hihro
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Posted - 2006.10.24 17:23:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Alferd logging is a combat tactic, plain and simple
only for p***ies
/*----------------------------------------------------------------------------------*/ My opinion in no way represents that of my corp or anyone I am associated with, and is probably entirely wrong. |
Nicocat
Caldari New Age Solutions
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Posted - 2006.10.24 17:29:00 -
[22]
Gate camping with an overwhelming force in an attempt to find loners/newbies to pop is a whorish, pathetic, and vile tactic.
Logging off to avoid combat is, similarly, whorish and pathetic.
What did we learn? People who do either should grow a pair of balls, get the **** out there, and fight. ----------------------------
Please don't try to troll in your signature -Eldo([email protected])
I tried? |
Taedrin
Gallente Mercatoris Technologies
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Posted - 2006.10.24 17:42:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Taedrin on 24/10/2006 17:43:47 In my own biased opinion...
Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean that it should be an exploit.
If a GM says that it is not an exploit, than it is no more an exploit than suicide ganking in Jita is. You must learn to adapt, or die. Or in this case, not be able to catch those who log out of your bubbles.
[EDIT] For the record, I do not log out of bubbles. I personally believe that logging out is a lame tactic, and would never do such a thing. Though I am a carebear, I instead choose to avoid those blaring red blobs on the map when I don't want to die. Which is not to say that I never decide to head straight for them, just for a little bit of excitement [/EDIT]
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Shinoobie
E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2006.10.25 11:47:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Taedrin Edited by: Taedrin on 24/10/2006 17:43:47 In my own biased opinion...
Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean that it should be an exploit.
If a GM says that it is not an exploit, than it is no more an exploit than suicide ganking in Jita is. You must learn to adapt, or die. Or in this case, not be able to catch those who log out of your bubbles.
[EDIT] For the record, I do not log out of bubbles. I personally believe that logging out is a lame tactic, and would never do such a thing. Though I am a carebear, I instead choose to avoid those blaring red blobs on the map when I don't want to die. Which is not to say that I never decide to head straight for them, just for a little bit of excitement [/EDIT]
As Cmdy Sy said above, this was fixed about a year ago as it was considered an exploit then. Logging on another character didn't make the original one dissapear. Until recently it has resurfaced. I would have thought that it would be considered and exploit again, but the GMs refute this. So where do we stand?
Because this is possible in the game today, it makes the following ships/modules redundent in PvP if you use this tactic.
Mobile Warp Bubbles Interdictors Sphere (In turn the Interdictor is pretty pointless) Warp Scramblers (In turn gang mods and ships that have bonuses to this module) Probes (In turn the covert ops ship)
Elite Scouting
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Crumplecorn
Gallente Aerial Boundaries Inc. Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.10.25 11:56:00 -
[25]
This is a blatant exploit.
You can't hit logoff tactics too hard because manu genuine disconnects occur.
But it's not a disconnect if you can log straight back in ----------
IBTL \o/ |
Tas Devil
JUDGE DREAD Inc. Forces of Freedom
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Posted - 2006.10.25 12:13:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Shinoobie
Originally by: Taedrin Edited by: Taedrin on 24/10/2006 17:43:47 In my own biased opinion...
Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean that it should be an exploit.
If a GM says that it is not an exploit, than it is no more an exploit than suicide ganking in Jita is. You must learn to adapt, or die. Or in this case, not be able to catch those who log out of your bubbles.
[EDIT] For the record, I do not log out of bubbles. I personally believe that logging out is a lame tactic, and would never do such a thing. Though I am a carebear, I instead choose to avoid those blaring red blobs on the map when I don't want to die. Which is not to say that I never decide to head straight for them, just for a little bit of excitement [/EDIT]
As Cmdy Sy said above, this was fixed about a year ago as it was considered an exploit then. Logging on another character didn't make the original one dissapear. Until recently it has resurfaced. I would have thought that it would be considered and exploit again, but the GMs refute this. So where do we stand?
Because this is possible in the game today, it makes the following ships/modules redundent in PvP if you use this tactic.
Mobile Warp Bubbles Interdictors Sphere (In turn the Interdictor is pretty pointless) Warp Scramblers (In turn gang mods and ships that have bonuses to this module) Probes (In turn the covert ops ship)
You're assuming GMs should be consistent in their message over time... Something that has been repeatedly prooven wrong ... and is one of the core reasons behind the don't discuss what GMs tell you in public rule...
Too many GMs send out conflicting messages on the same finer rule points of this game... especially in the case of borderline tactics... or quite plainly as is the case here in the case of resurfacing bugs that they probably know won't be addressed for a while and hence have to be lived with.
Either way this latest trend of log off log on an alt on same account is truly pathetic... Tas
The best Laugh ever ... Credit goes to Killer8 for this ! This includes bad language... so beware |
Malena Panic
Gallente Acme Technologies Incorporated Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2006.10.25 15:47:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Crumplecorn You can't hit logoff tactics too hard because manu genuine disconnects occur.
Them's the breaks. In no other PvP game are you protected from disconnects, accidental or otherwise. It's part of the pain of playing a game over the internet.
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Ilea Celentay
Hunters Agency Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2006.10.25 15:53:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Crumplecorn This is a blatant exploit.
You can't hit logoff tactics too hard because manu genuine disconnects occur.
But it's not a disconnect if you can log straight back in
That's ofc a good point... Unfortunately from what I see it seams that Eve doesn't allow two characters from the same account to occupy the Eve Universe at the same time - so if a player 'logs off' in space and then tries to log into a different character within the standard 2 minutes of the logoff time - there original ship should go 'pop'?
So long as there is a warning (so to stop people doing in on the accidental occasions) I see that this would help at least.
As has been said; the strange fact that some people get so attached to their assets in Eve so that they would effectively cheat to keep them is quite amazing - but alot worse still is that these people find it great when they ensure such losses on others... Some people are just strange.
I think there is ways for Eve-Online to recognize a D/C from a Crash from a 'Close' or a... etc... The problem is that you start looking in too many places and you get called spyware.. A separate 'watching' program could easily identify what happened to the Eve Client and therefore allow the server to respond in the correct way - but I am sure alot of people would complain about that also - "We have big plans. Secret plans, but BIG!" Faction|Tech1 Ship Info |
Taram Caldar
Caldari Acheron Vanguard Armada The Shadow Ascension
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Posted - 2006.10.25 16:04:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Ilea Celentay the strange fact that some people get so attached to their assets in Eve so that they would effectively cheat to keep them is quite amazing
Nah, it's called human nature. If people know they can get away with something and not get in trouble for it? Odds are they'll do it. Just take a brief glance at human history for proof of that :)
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Imation Sturm
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Posted - 2006.10.25 20:51:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Ilea Celentay
Originally by: Crumplecorn This is a blatant exploit.
You can't hit logoff tactics too hard because manu genuine disconnects occur.
But it's not a disconnect if you can log straight back in
That's ofc a good point... Unfortunately from what I see it seams that Eve doesn't allow two characters from the same account to occupy the Eve Universe at the same time - so if a player 'logs off' in space and then tries to log into a different character within the standard 2 minutes of the logoff time - there original ship should go 'pop'?
So long as there is a warning (so to stop people doing in on the accidental occasions) I see that this would help at least.
As has been said; the strange fact that some people get so attached to their assets in Eve so that they would effectively cheat to keep them is quite amazing - but alot worse still is that these people find it great when they ensure such losses on others... Some people are just strange.
I think there is ways for Eve-Online to recognize a D/C from a Crash from a 'Close' or a... etc... The problem is that you start looking in too many places and you get called spyware.. A separate 'watching' program could easily identify what happened to the Eve Client and therefore allow the server to respond in the correct way - but I am sure alot of people would complain about that also
You can still just pull the plug. There realy isan't any way to tell why someone logged off.
For me, EVE crashes about once and hour or two, but my wireless connection also crashes anywhere from none at all to 4 or more times an hour. I just stops working and reconnects like nothing happened.
As for people getting attached to their stuff, well why wouldn't they? This game is about investing time, and some people have invested lots of time into what they have. Especialy for n00bs who finaly have enough money for their first cruiser/BS whatever. Not to say no one else feels the loss of a ship, but some people can be drasticly effected by the loss, up to the point that rebuilding may not be worth it.
EVE is one of the few games where you can realy get flushed down the tubes.
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