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afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
1046
|
Posted - 2015.04.09 12:11:47 -
[421] - Quote
It has plenty ramifications, you're just sticking your fingers in your ears every time someone brings them up because you dislike it and it doesn't let you legally violence people. |
Kaarous Aldurald
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
12584
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Posted - 2015.04.09 12:13:00 -
[422] - Quote
afkalt wrote:It has plenty ramifications, you're just sticking your fingers in your ears every time someone brings them up because you dislike it and it doesn't let you legally violence people.
A few million isk and less than twenty minutes is not "plenty" of ramifications.
That's all that dec dodging costs anyone.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
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afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
1046
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Posted - 2015.04.09 12:14:37 -
[423] - Quote
Hogwash. Time, opportunity cost losses, halted industry, delayed contract fulfilment to name but a few. |
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Farsaidh's Freeborn
1075
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Posted - 2015.04.09 12:23:03 -
[424] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote: That's exactly why killrights are a good idea. Because said individuals are exploiting the normal legal mechanics, cheating their way around it. Concord could be rationalized as citing them for violating some part of the Yulai treaty or whatever.
You cannot exploit a legal mechanic, if it is legal it is by definition not cheating.
War is a corp mechanism not a mechanism to gain killrights against an individual. The punishment from leaving a corp during war should be being blocked from any corp activities (other than NPC) for that duration. If you want to go after the individual then do so using the usual methods.
Kaarous Aldurald wrote: And as afkalt was so kind as to accidentally reveal, bypassing that is entirely trivial to anyone with a cursory knowledge of pos mechanics.
I would suggest any means of avoiding the war duration disbarment from player corp activities be fixed when they fix the whole structures/wardec system otherwise it is a waste of effort providing a sticking plaster solution.
Kaarous Aldurald wrote: It's both, and should have ramifications on both, as opposed to now where it has them on neither, and it is highly abused.
[/quote]
You cannot declare war on an individual, only his/her/it's corp. It is therefore a purely inter-corp mechanic. Corp mechanics should have ramifications on corp activities. |
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
233
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Posted - 2015.04.09 14:50:21 -
[425] - Quote
Since you provided the link let us look at it.
CCP Rise wrote:Quote:I still think the main thing that keeps pushing new bros away is the fact of the many many levels of griefing that you folks do allow.. but of course you wont nerf that cause that also would hurt someone else's game. perfect thinking here.
We have tried and tried to validate the myth that griefing has a pronounced affect on new players - we have failed. The strongest indicators for a new player staying with EVE are associated with social activity: joining corps, using market and contract systems, pvping, etc. Isolating players away from the actual sandbox seems very contrary to what we would like to accomplish. Important section bolded etc. "strongest indicators" in statistical analysis does not mean that something is a "fact" or the "truth" it means exactly what is says "indicators". So this oft referred to post does nothing to prove your points, like wise it cannot be used to dis-prove your points.
The only thing we can take awasy from this that resembles fact is that "cooperative" game play and the "social" experience is at the core of player retention and the actual in game activity is not a factor. You take away from this that PvP is "the" activity because that is in your experience where these cooperative activities have most often occurred. I on the other hand have had far more cooperative experiences in high sec than I vere experienced while in low and nul. Your experience does not invalidate mine, and my experience does invalidate yours, it simply serves to point out the wide variety of players and play style in this game.
Gettnig back to the WD thing. How does your proposals serve to increase "cooperative" game play? Does your ideas server to increase cooperative game play? In a very few ways it does, for those limited number of players that have any desire to actually fight back when WD. For the rest there is nothing in your proposals that promote "cooperative" game play and many of them have the potential to further isolate players from "cooperative" game play.
Moving on to the kill rights issue for players that leave a corp that is under WD. Bad idea as it would punish a player who has a disagreement with the corp leadership simply for wanting to leave due to that disagreement. The free movement of players from corp to corp cannot be impeded in any way as that wouold be bad for the game. Yes that means that we will have to accept some instances of what you call exploits or abuse as they are not possible to prevent.
Many argue that HS WD are not broken, and yet the very nature of this discussion and the many polarized viewpoints posted proves otherwise. |
Juan Mileghere
Incident Command Southern Star Dominion
22
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Posted - 2015.04.09 16:15:06 -
[426] - Quote
afkalt wrote:Hogwash. Time, opportunity cost losses, halted industry, delayed contract fulfilment to name but a few. Depends on the corp, some yeah, others, not really...
Blobbing Explained
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afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
1048
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Posted - 2015.04.09 16:23:01 -
[427] - Quote
Yes but the chat was about industrial corps. Any idiot can be 100% immune by not undocking so only indys need apply to this really. |
tainted demon
Danger Gnomes Forsaken Asylum
0
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Posted - 2015.04.09 18:05:37 -
[428] - Quote
Wars are suppost to be a fun part of eve for everyone involved it makes nowhere in eve safe this keeps the market steady and provides content in a game where where content is player driven. I think a few things need to change and improve to make war's a system even nullsec would use. i have a few ideas so here are my main complaints :)
I would like to see more information on wars like why they are starting and who is involved, let the defender know why this is happening to them and who they can talk to about ending it by the initial mail the defending corp receves, instead of concord just saying YOU ARE ALL GOING TO DIE IN 24HRS! Give them the info like what charactor from the corp/alliance put in the war, there reason for doing so, what the aggressor wants from the war (if they want to share that) and what the defender can do to meet the demands if he wants it over with.
Others should be able to see this info if they are intending to offer their support for eather side. corps who offer assistance on a war should be rated by the accepting defenders on how they preformed as an allie so others can see strong allies from useless ones
It should cost people who drop corps a penalty fee for making a new corp while the initial war is live with their former corp/alliance or atleast give the agressor some options for this outcome (reduction on war fee or ability to end the war and swap the war over within 24hrs so the war on corp A ends as the war on corp B starts for whatever time was remaining on the week) People who drop to NPC while at war should be stuck in NPC corp's for longer preiods of time ADD JUMP FATIGUE HERE!
Make better rewards for anyone mining or mission running or pvping while at war i thought risk = reward in eve and that would make players have more of a reason to stick wars out or want to start wars even in nullsec if the added rewards are worth it. FW gets paid with LP, why cant war's pay a % of isk value killed to who got top dmg?
Back to information, a bio is fine but it sucks that all you have to look up a corp/alliance is out of eve sites battleclinic, zkill, eve tools ect. yet nothing in eve itself that shows how dangerous they are or where they usually hunt, not even a most recent 5-10 kills/losses, active timezone's, prefered activity, how competent they are. (most of that is info you see looking at a corp advert but not on the actual corp?) CCP should Change "show corp info" to "show me some useless facts i dont need" untill they get round to addressing this
Trade hubs need to be set apart from other stations they are popular ports where people move to and from in masses, i dont think players should be able to attack each other on there undocks or within a set distance from station, simply because if poeple are free to undock and move they will. You can still kill them once there moving but atleast then aggressors are commited to the fight and can't dock to change there fit or grab something bigger. (you can eather watch someone dock back up or watch them die with tears in local i know what i'd prefer)
I'm looking forword to hearing stats about the new structures comming to eve, more assets in space like pos's and poco's = more content and pressure on defending owners to stand by or lose them, maybe add set pos for alliance and give those pos's link slots make owning or placing a pos a more tactical decision for mining or combat links for its owning alliance members
and i really hope the new sov stealing modual thing will let us clame abandoned POS's and mods after some time.
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Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
605
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Posted - 2015.04.09 22:39:22 -
[429] - Quote
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:I'm really not sure that killrights are the appropriate choice here. A war is between corporations and therefore CONCORD are bribed to ignore one corps destruction of anothers assets. Those assets include the pilots within the corp. When CONCORD start giving corporations the legal right to hunt individuals things are going wrong. If the corp doesn't like an individual leaving during a war they can always go and gank them..
Wasting your breath here man. I have said this many times, you dec the corp not the player. Have also pointed out everywhere else out of empire if you force players to leave a corp/alliance to the point its no longer viable you have won that war. these people don't get that.
They think warfare should be total warfare. Which is fine. They can leave empire. NBSI says hi. CCP gave 3 areas where warfare is more open. that guy pisses you off shoot him wt red. That guy leaves one home and joins someone else (who is not blue)....well shoot him again. I in IT shot more goons as nuets then WT's. After the kartoon implosion good luck dec'ing all the splinters cells that resulted until they reformed. Grey as good as wt red with NBSI....
They also keep on bringing stats and ccp quotes up. Here is another fun stat. CCP has determined after a mommy or titan buy there is an increased chance of that player quitting soon after. It requires the social aspect of corp attendance. It is a pvp intensive ride. Moral to this story...there are reasons people leave this game beyond what the empire dec bears, ccp or others have presented. this isn't 2 results only (black or white if you will) data analysis basically. In this case we can conclude people opted to skill up for their avatar...then quit. Took it a few steps above "skilling for their raven" (the phrase ccp has used in the past). They still left the game. Just at avatar level not raven lol.
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Kaarous Aldurald
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
12584
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Posted - 2015.04.10 00:23:52 -
[430] - Quote
Zan Shiro wrote:Have also pointed out everywhere else out of empire if you force players to leave a corp/alliance to the point its no longer viable you have won that war.
Please, point out anywhere in that old wardec dev blog where CCP intends that the consequence of a war should be a few million isk and refolding the corp.
Until then, knock off this lie.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
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Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
2095
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Posted - 2015.04.10 02:11:52 -
[431] - Quote
I think prior to sweeping changes about the way wars affect involved corps or characters it's probably a better idea to iterate on underdeveloped features that currently exist.
Such as the surrender system not giving either party the ability to demand the other surrender for a set isk quantity, or the inability to negotiate variable forced peace periods.
Or the ability for the attacker in a war to bring in allies once the defender brings in allies to eliminate the unilateral escalation problem that makes wars so unattractive for the average joe.
These kinds of things would help to improve the general usability of the war mechanics without being outrageously controversial. |
Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
605
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Posted - 2015.04.10 05:53:53 -
[432] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Zan Shiro wrote:Have also pointed out everywhere else out of empire if you force players to leave a corp/alliance to the point its no longer viable you have won that war.
Please, point out anywhere in that old wardec dev blog where CCP intends that the consequence of a war should be a few million isk and refolding the corp. Until then, knock off this lie.
Sandbox....players made this happen. Its the conflict you and others keep on saying ccp needs to market to sell the game. Blob A beat down blob B so bad they failscaded. Will they come back? Will the come back strong? Its like the cliffnanger ending to a series finale. This sells. its the eternal internet space ship drama.
Sadly you and people like you choose empire dec'ing. No one cares if you shut down a bear corp. You all choose your crap reward really. Want big...find big targets that have people say damn....nice work.
Go to caod....the chest beating is the reward. taking the corp/ alliance name can be a reward if done right (once in a while goons even has a poster post with the BoB tag, hell sometimes they as a joke offer to sell the BoB alliance name lol) or with great effort you can fail cascade a crew so much its executor/ceo says screw it and the new leadership goes well...how does insert_name. (dot at the end) sound fella's.
Code can even post there too. You got the C and the A. Granted you will be taken as seriously as other empire pvp crews but you have freedom of speech so don't let that stop you. Closed down a bear corp..go.claim your caod reward.
or crews like yours could you know...dec the alliances. this kept snotshot and others like him busy for years. Hell nailing the idiots hitting empire wt red (in jita of all places) the first week of the dec paid them pretty good I imagine. Since oddly enough....carebears are smart enough to stay docked with 5+ reds in local but some 0.0 peeps just trudge on ahead. In a hauler. Loaded to the brim. With no warp stabs. Or cloaks.
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admiral root
Red Galaxy
2686
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Posted - 2015.04.10 11:26:52 -
[433] - Quote
Vimsy Vortis wrote:These kinds of things would help to improve the general usability of [insert feature here] without being outrageously controversial.
Did you take a blow to the head and forget this is the Eve forum?
No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff | No-one hates you, none of us care enough for that.
A recent survey of applicants to CODE. corporations showed that 100% accepted James 315 as their saviour. You can't argue with facts.
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Kaarous Aldurald
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
12585
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Posted - 2015.04.10 12:14:05 -
[434] - Quote
Zan Shiro wrote: Sandbox....players made this happen.
Oh, so that makes it okay, does it? If only that ideal was applied equitably in any way.
For example, I am one of a very few number of people who know of a way to evade Concord that CCP has overlooked. If I were to use that, I could say that it's a sandbox, and that it was player action that made it happen... and still get banned anyway.
The rest of your post is just you ranting about how you hate PvP, and I will not address it.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
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Frostys Virpio
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
1679
|
Posted - 2015.04.10 12:29:28 -
[435] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Zan Shiro wrote: Sandbox....players made this happen.
Oh, so that makes it okay, does it? If only that ideal was applied equitably in any way. For example, I am one of a very few number of people who know of a way to evade Concord that CCP has overlooked. If I were to use that, I could say that it's a sandbox, and that it was player action that made it happen... and still get banned anyway. The rest of your post is just you ranting about how you hate PvP, and I will not address it.
So you know a way to bypass rules of the game but don't report it? You do realise what any utilisation of such issue with CONCORD would make you even if not getting caught right? |
Kaarous Aldurald
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
12585
|
Posted - 2015.04.10 12:34:05 -
[436] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote: So you know a way to bypass rules of the game but don't report it? You do realise what any utilisation of such issue with CONCORD would make you even if not getting caught right?
Correct. As a player, your responsibility to not not proliferate the exploit, which I don't.
The example given was to demonstrate that carebears not only benefit from, but also demand that the rules not be applied equally.
Evading a wardec? Totally okay. Evading Concord? Totally not okay, because *reasons*.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
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Frostys Virpio
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
1679
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Posted - 2015.04.10 13:05:24 -
[437] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote: So you know a way to bypass rules of the game but don't report it? You do realise what any utilisation of such issue with CONCORD would make you even if not getting caught right?
Correct. As a player, your responsibility to not not proliferate the exploit, which I don't. [edit: I should point out that I did report it when I found it, and was answered with deafening silence The example given was to demonstrate that carebears not only benefit from, but also demand that the rules not be applied equally. Evading a wardec? Totally okay. Evading Concord? Totally not okay, because *reasons*.
Somehow people managed to convince CCP it was a good idea to let war dodging not be a bannable offence. That it was true or not is irrelevant. Start your crusade like whoever it was did and show CCP why it's a good idea and you'll see where it leads you.
Or don't because I don't think it's better if the game keeps you as a player but hey man, go where your conviction leads you. |
Kaarous Aldurald
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
12585
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Posted - 2015.04.10 13:13:25 -
[438] - Quote
That's what I'm here doing, asking for CCP to classify dec dodging as the exploit that it is, and to fix wardecs.
I'm not going to be a tool and encourage everyone to evade Concord, because whether or not I deride it as a binary, awkward, immersion breaking, pathetic excuse for a game mechanic, I play this game by the rules.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
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Corraidhin Farsaidh
Farsaidh's Freeborn
1078
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Posted - 2015.04.10 13:20:26 -
[439] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:That's what I'm here doing, asking for CCP to (re)classify dec dodging as the exploit that it is, and to fix wardecs.
I'm not going to be a tool and encourage everyone to evade Concord, because whether or not I deride it as a binary, awkward, immersion breaking, pathetic excuse for a game mechanic, I play this game by the rules.
You may well be better to push for the new structure mechanism to make such an option impossible as that is where the focus is more likely to be. Make the structures more worthwhile standing up and then make it impossible to tear one down in time before a wardec starts. Alongside this make it impossible to disband a corp whilst assets are still in space.
Then the corp either defends the structure or let it die in flames. Either way it becomes much more meaningful when a corp chooses to use structures and the onus is then on the CEO to ensure they have players ready to defend their assets.
Right now the onus is on the aggressors to check the corp history and not dec them if they think the defender will simply evaporate. |
Rivr Luzade
Exclusion Cartel The Kadeshi
1321
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Posted - 2015.04.10 13:35:01 -
[440] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:That's what I'm here doing, asking for CCP to (re)classify dec dodging as the exploit that it is, and to fix wardecs.
I'm not going to be a tool and encourage everyone to evade Concord, because whether or not I deride it as a binary, awkward, immersion breaking, pathetic excuse for a game mechanic, I play this game by the rules. If that is an immersion breaking exploit for you, please tell your CODE bumpers to get out of NPC corps and educate other gankers and pirates to leave NPC corps. Once you've done that successfully, I might consider just sticking to my corp and not undock for a week.
Until then I deal with the matter concerning my corps how I please and I play by my rules that are sanctioned by the game mechanics and regulatory documents.
Station Tab :: UI Improvement Collective
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Kaarous Aldurald
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
12585
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Posted - 2015.04.10 13:38:16 -
[441] - Quote
Rivr Luzade wrote: If that is an immersion breaking exploit for you
Reading comprehension failure.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
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Rivr Luzade
Exclusion Cartel The Kadeshi
1321
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Posted - 2015.04.10 13:48:55 -
[442] - Quote
Oh dear, "immersion breaking exploit" is different from "... classify dec dodging as the exploit [that is an] immersion breaking, pathetic excuse of a game mechanic." Apologies, I misinterpreted your words completely. Please, carry on with your Machariel pilots in Starter corps and 2nd tier NPC corps. Don't let me interrupt your business.
Station Tab :: UI Improvement Collective
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Kaarous Aldurald
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
12585
|
Posted - 2015.04.10 13:53:27 -
[443] - Quote
Rivr Luzade wrote:Oh dear, "immersion breaking exploit" is different from "... classify dec dodging as the exploit [that is an] immersion breaking, pathetic excuse of a game mechanic." Apologies, I misinterpreted your words completely. Please, carry on with your Machariel pilots in Starter corps and 2nd tier NPC corps. Don't let me interrupt your business.
I did not say "immersion breaking exploit", knucklehead.
I'm talking about Concord. Learn to read.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
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Rivr Luzade
Exclusion Cartel The Kadeshi
1322
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Posted - 2015.04.10 14:00:26 -
[444] - Quote
Yes, you are talking about Concord. What I am talking about is in so far related to your "Give people who leave a corp during a dec a kill right" that your people do not even join player corps or leave them as soon as their pretty activity and toys could be threatened by other players. But as said: carry on. The longer you do this, the longer I have valid excuses to leave my corp whenever I please.
Station Tab :: UI Improvement Collective
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Kaarous Aldurald
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
12585
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Posted - 2015.04.10 14:03:44 -
[445] - Quote
Rivr Luzade wrote:Yes, you are talking about Concord.
The end.
Cease your baseless ranting. You can't justify the tangent you just accidentally went off on, and you look the fool. If you want to cry about alts and bumping, this is the wrong thread.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
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Rivr Luzade
Exclusion Cartel The Kadeshi
1322
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Posted - 2015.04.10 14:06:50 -
[446] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Rivr Luzade wrote:Yes, you are talking about Concord.
The end. Cease your baseless ranting. You can't justify the tangent you just accidentally went off on, and you look the fool. If you want to cry about alts and bumping, this is the wrong thread. Nope, I have no reason to cry about it as I do not care about it and because it does not affect me in any way, shape or form. After all, Rivr lives in Null sec, which is an area of space where I will never see a bumping Machariel in an NPC corp, let alone people from CODE. The only thing I care about is your own hypocrisy. And that I care about a lot.
Station Tab :: UI Improvement Collective
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Kaarous Aldurald
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
12585
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Posted - 2015.04.10 14:08:22 -
[447] - Quote
Rivr Luzade wrote: Nope, I have no reason to cry about it as I do not care about it and because it does not affect me in any way, shape or form.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
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Frostys Virpio
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
1679
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Posted - 2015.04.10 14:39:33 -
[448] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:That's what I'm here doing, asking for CCP to (re)classify dec dodging as the exploit that it WAS, and to fix wardecs.
I'm not going to be a tool and encourage everyone to evade Concord, because whether or not I deride it as a binary, awkward, immersion breaking, pathetic excuse for a game mechanic, I play this game by the rules.
Bolded what had to be corrected to make you 90% true post into 100%. If something is declared to not be an exploit, then it is not an exploit until it gets re-defined as one. Dec dodging WAS an exploit but isn't now. |
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
234
|
Posted - 2015.04.10 14:57:19 -
[449] - Quote
You know Kaarous Aldurald all of your post point us back to one simple truth of your existence, you think "dec dodgin" is an exploit that needs to be eliminated. Well CCP simply does not seem to agree with you on that. I have been in this game for more than 5 years, my son has been in this game for almost 8 years. And in all that time players have been using the same "dec dodging exploits" as you call them. Considering the number of players like you that have complained vociferously about these alleged "exploits" over the years it is a virtual impossibility that CCP is not aware of this situation. The only conclusion that rational and logical minds can draw from these facts is that CCP does not consider dec dodging to be an exploit and so they do nothing about it.
Either that or they are smart enough, care enough about this game they own not to implement an idea that may have serious detrimental affects on the CASH flow. In the end you see CCP is a for profit company and to make a profit one has to sell it's product or service and sometimes that means compromising to appeal to a wider player base. Your ideas as posted in this topic offer no compromise, it is essentially my way of the highway.
Oh and that Concord exploit you seem to be so proud of, yea count on that going the way of the do-do bird very soon. |
Kaarous Aldurald
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
12587
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Posted - 2015.04.10 15:04:30 -
[450] - Quote
Donnachadh wrote:Well CCP simply does not seem to agree with you on that. I have been in this game for more than 5 years, my son has been in this game for almost 8 years. And in all that time players have been using the same "dec dodging exploits" as you call them.
Someone didn't do his research before making up this particular lie. I'll throw you a bone, how long has this particular incarnation of wardecs been around?
Because it's not five years, and it's damn sure not eight.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
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