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Gierling
Gallente Celestial Fleet Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.10.20 17:29:00 -
[1]
Ok I wanted to make a much more detailed post with charts and pictures but Im in a rush to get to a friends wedding.
PLEASE focus criticism on ideas, the numbers are rough. Feel free to make alternate suggestions.
Ok BAsically to make COmbat more interesting we add secondary weapon effects. These should make ocmbat more dynamic, and balance out the HP increases. They also tend towards hurting passive tanks worse then active tanks.
Ok lets get to the meat and potatoes.
Hybrids- Railguns: Penetrating damage, for each hit 15% of the damage total is applied (on top of the damage done) to the layer beneath the current active. Blasters: Burn Damage, for each hit 20% of the damage done is applied consistantly over the next (5,10,20) seconds (depending on size). Kinda like poison/bleeding effects in other games.
Projo's- Artillery: 35% damage on the top... Not subtle but Minies aren't suppossed to be AC's: Target loses 1% Agility and 1% sig res/tracking per shot for 10 seconds or so (Adjust per weapon class)
Energy- Beams: 7.5% penetrating 7.5% Burn Pulses: 10% damage applied to targets capacitor (If you do 1000 damage in a volley, they lose 100 cap as well).
Missilles-
Unguided: In 0.4 and below they do splash damage equal ot a smart bomb of the same size class. Guided: Caldari Techs installed parasitic warp enablers found in fighters... Missilles will follow you into warp for a distance. Say 75 AU's for Cruise missilles with max cruuise skill and max cruise spec, less for smaller missilles. (This would certainly make Ravens much more popular in fleet fights wouldn't it).
All of these would be dependent on existing skills, with 2/3rds of each effect coming from the main skill (say large projo, or Cruise missilles), and an additional third from the spec skill. (large hybrid spec).
Oh and in addition there should be a new Module that gives a bonus to Falloff/explosion velocity and secondary weapon effect.
Ok Ive brught these up before, but If tuxford tells me its stupid I won't bring it up ever again (ffer not valid for players and other Devs )
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Hllaxiu
Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2006.10.20 17:36:00 -
[2]
I hate the idea of penetrating damage in this game. You're tanking one layer, and if damage has a chance of penetrating, your tank will be somewhat worthless after some period of time. This forces people to tank two (or all three!) layers, meaning that you're going to be stuck with rather puny weapons.
PS, I was was kinda hoping that ASCN's response sigs would be BSG. --- Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson |
Gierling
Gallente Celestial Fleet Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.10.20 18:08:00 -
[3]
Thats rather the point.
To make it so that nothing can permanently tank everything of the same size class indefinitely.
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Hobbesmaster
Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2006.10.20 18:10:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Gierling Thats rather the point.
To make it so that nothing can permanently tank everything of the same size class indefinitely.
At the cost of removing capitals from the game. ----- This is Hllaxiu's alt and should be treated as if the preceeding message was posted as Hllaxiu. (stupid forums) |
Murukan
Minmatar The Priory Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2006.10.20 18:14:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Hobbesmaster
Originally by: Gierling Thats rather the point.
To make it so that nothing can permanently tank everything of the same size class indefinitely.
At the cost of removing capitals from the game.
Not everyone wants to shoot pos all day
Interesting ideas, the pulse idea would be a little overpowered though especially against smaller targets as it is esentiall nos. So you could just stack the lowest tier pulses that have a high rof and just kill your targets cap while still doing damage.
In rust we trust!!!
Right here Tux ,,|,, |
Hllaxiu
Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2006.10.20 18:17:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Murukan
Not everyone wants to shoot pos all day
Exactly! Some of us would like to use carriers on the front lines! --- Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson |
Grimpak
Gallente Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.10.20 18:25:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Grimpak on 20/10/2006 18:25:44 it would require some balancing, but I love them.
...however, the extra server load for calculations might make it a bit hard.
still, love them -------
Originally by: Abdalion
Originally by: Jebidus Skari What, in EVE, is a Tyrant?
Me. Especially when it comes to troll threads.
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Magunus
The Forsakened Few The ARR0W Project
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Posted - 2006.10.20 18:25:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Gierling Thats rather the point.
To make it so that nothing can permanently tank everything of the same size class indefinitely.
Yeah, but it would make shield tanking pointless, because you can't effectively tank both shield and armor, but you CAN effectively tank both armor and hull with a damage control. Other than that, I don't see a problem with the ideas, although some of the numbers seem off, but that's not the point of your post. ---
In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. -- Douglas Adams, 'The Restaurant at the End of the Universe' |
Veneth
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Posted - 2006.10.20 21:08:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Magunus
Originally by: Gierling Thats rather the point.
To make it so that nothing can permanently tank everything of the same size class indefinitely.
Yeah, but it would make shield tanking pointless, because you can't effectively tank both shield and armor, but you CAN effectively tank both armor and hull with a damage control. Other than that, I don't see a problem with the ideas, although some of the numbers seem off, but that's not the point of your post.
kinda true but not really if you think about it. you can always have buddies hit you with remote armor reps or armor maintence drones. what is a armor tanker suppose to do? watch his ship fall apart in a long battle cause his hull craps out while still at full armor? hehe.. So yeah penetrating doesn't work well :)
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Gierling
Gallente Celestial Fleet Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.10.21 23:18:00 -
[10]
Well with the HP increases we are looking at the possibility of BAttleships being able to effectively support capitols, so thats less of a concern.
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Leandro Salazar
Aeon Industries
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Posted - 2006.10.22 00:02:00 -
[11]
Quote: Missilles-
Unguided: In 0.4 and below they do splash damage equal ot a smart bomb of the same size class.
Love that. Great way to tumble the domi from top to bottom of the food chain ;) --------- ZOMG my sig was concordokkened! Link removed due to bad language on remote site. -wystler
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m0jo
Fellow Space Traveller Association
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Posted - 2006.10.22 00:10:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Gierling Ok I wanted to make a much more detailed post with charts and pictures but Im in a rush to get to a friends wedding.
PLEASE focus criticism on ideas, the numbers are rough. Feel free to make alternate suggestions.
Ok BAsically to make COmbat more interesting we add secondary weapon effects. These should make ocmbat more dynamic, and balance out the HP increases. They also tend towards hurting passive tanks worse then active tanks.
Ok lets get to the meat and potatoes.
Hybrids- Railguns: Penetrating damage, for each hit 15% of the damage total is applied (on top of the damage done) to the layer beneath the current active. Blasters: Burn Damage, for each hit 20% of the damage done is applied consistantly over the next (5,10,20) seconds (depending on size). Kinda like poison/bleeding effects in other games.
Projo's- Artillery: 35% damage on the top... Not subtle but Minies aren't suppossed to be AC's: Target loses 1% Agility and 1% sig res/tracking per shot for 10 seconds or so (Adjust per weapon class)
Energy- Beams: 7.5% penetrating 7.5% Burn Pulses: 10% damage applied to targets capacitor (If you do 1000 damage in a volley, they lose 100 cap as well).
Missilles-
Unguided: In 0.4 and below they do splash damage equal ot a smart bomb of the same size class. Guided: Caldari Techs installed parasitic warp enablers found in fighters... Missilles will follow you into warp for a distance. Say 75 AU's for Cruise missilles with max cruuise skill and max cruise spec, less for smaller missilles. (This would certainly make Ravens much more popular in fleet fights wouldn't it).
All of these would be dependent on existing skills, with 2/3rds of each effect coming from the main skill (say large projo, or Cruise missilles), and an additional third from the spec skill. (large hybrid spec).
Oh and in addition there should be a new Module that gives a bonus to Falloff/explosion velocity and secondary weapon effect.
Ok Ive brught these up before, but If tuxford tells me its stupid I won't bring it up ever again (ffer not valid for players and other Devs )
NO
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tarin adur
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Posted - 2006.10.22 01:04:00 -
[13]
Edited by: tarin adur on 22/10/2006 01:05:12
Originally by: Leandro Salazar
Quote: Missilles-
Unguided: In 0.4 and below they do splash damage equal ot a smart bomb of the same size class.
Love that. Great way to tumble the domi from top to bottom of the food chain ;)
no need. with Nos and ECM getting nerfed it's fate is already sealed.
Quote: Missilles-
Unguided: In 0.4 and below they do splash damage equal ot a smart bomb of the same size class. Guided: Caldari Techs installed parasitic warp enablers found in fighters... Missilles will follow you into warp for a distance. Say 75 AU's for Cruise missilles with max cruuise skill and max cruise spec, less for smaller missilles. (This would certainly make Ravens much more popular in fleet fights wouldn't it).
You want to make missiles even more overpowered(this is my opinion)
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Elvarien
Caldari The Night's Watch THE INTERSTELLAR FOUNDRY
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Posted - 2006.10.22 02:38:00 -
[14]
Originally by: m0jo
Originally by: Gierling Ok I wanted to make a much more detailed post with charts and pictures but Im in a rush to get to a friends wedding.
PLEASE focus criticism on ideas, the numbers are rough. Feel free to make alternate suggestions.
Ok BAsically to make COmbat more interesting we add secondary weapon effects. These should make ocmbat more dynamic, and balance out the HP increases. They also tend towards hurting passive tanks worse then active tanks.
Ok lets get to the meat and potatoes.
Hybrids- Railguns: Penetrating damage, for each hit 15% of the damage total is applied (on top of the damage done) to the layer beneath the current active. Blasters: Burn Damage, for each hit 20% of the damage done is applied consistantly over the next (5,10,20) seconds (depending on size). Kinda like poison/bleeding effects in other games.
Projo's- Artillery: 35% damage on the top... Not subtle but Minies aren't suppossed to be AC's: Target loses 1% Agility and 1% sig res/tracking per shot for 10 seconds or so (Adjust per weapon class)
Energy- Beams: 7.5% penetrating 7.5% Burn Pulses: 10% damage applied to targets capacitor (If you do 1000 damage in a volley, they lose 100 cap as well).
Missilles-
Unguided: In 0.4 and below they do splash damage equal ot a smart bomb of the same size class. Guided: Caldari Techs installed parasitic warp enablers found in fighters... Missilles will follow you into warp for a distance. Say 75 AU's for Cruise missilles with max cruuise skill and max cruise spec, less for smaller missilles. (This would certainly make Ravens much more popular in fleet fights wouldn't it).
All of these would be dependent on existing skills, with 2/3rds of each effect coming from the main skill (say large projo, or Cruise missilles), and an additional third from the spec skill. (large hybrid spec).
Oh and in addition there should be a new Module that gives a bonus to Falloff/explosion velocity and secondary weapon effect.
Ok Ive brught these up before, but If tuxford tells me its stupid I won't bring it up ever again (ffer not valid for players and other Devs )
NO
I`l agree with this one just .. in more words. Each of these secondary abilities totaly screw up game balance and yes thats not talking about the numbers. You cant or with a metricsh*tload of trouble implement these in eve and the added serverload with the way its currently doing .... as was previousely stated
no.
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Gierling
Gallente Celestial Fleet Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.10.22 02:47:00 -
[15]
Yes, each of these is unballanced in its own hideous way.
Which is why it would make htings more balanced. EVE Combat needs more skill less math. Each of these would encourage a certain playstyle and a devotion to it, each of those playstyles would be ridiculously powerful if an individual could leverage them without letting his enemy do the same...
Gasp! more interesting and varied combats!
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Illuminaty
ISS Logistics Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.10.22 05:07:00 -
[16]
Actually damage that bleeds through to other layers isn't such a bad idea.
Shield tanks: Mids for shield, lows for armor.
Armor tanks: Lows for armor, mids for hull (hull reppers would likely need a boost though).
Yes, for a sustained tank you'd need to rep 2 layers.
However...
1) If the majority of the damage is being applied to the resisted + tanked layer, the bleed through could be small enough as to not quickly overwhelm even an undersized repair unit.
2) It opens up more fitting options. Someone could choose to only have a single layer tank and rely on killing their target before they lose their second layer.
3) Smaller ships would have a very hard time surviving prolonged slugging mataches, because they can barely fit mods to repair their hps as it is.
Obviously it would take a lot of testing to find out if it was workable, but I don't think the idea is inherently rubbish on the face of it.
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VulkanXx
Minmatar Original Black Plague Blood of the Innocents
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Posted - 2006.10.22 07:03:00 -
[17]
Originally by: m0jo
Originally by: Gierling Ok I wanted to make a much more detailed post with charts and pictures but Im in a rush to get to a friends wedding.
PLEASE focus criticism on ideas, the numbers are rough. Feel free to make alternate suggestions.
Ok BAsically to make COmbat more interesting we add secondary weapon effects. These should make ocmbat more dynamic, and balance out the HP increases. They also tend towards hurting passive tanks worse then active tanks.
Ok lets get to the meat and potatoes.
Hybrids- Railguns: Penetrating damage, for each hit 15% of the damage total is applied (on top of the damage done) to the layer beneath the current active. Blasters: Burn Damage, for each hit 20% of the damage done is applied consistantly over the next (5,10,20) seconds (depending on size). Kinda like poison/bleeding effects in other games.
Projo's- Artillery: 35% damage on the top... Not subtle but Minies aren't suppossed to be AC's: Target loses 1% Agility and 1% sig res/tracking per shot for 10 seconds or so (Adjust per weapon class)
Energy- Beams: 7.5% penetrating 7.5% Burn Pulses: 10% damage applied to targets capacitor (If you do 1000 damage in a volley, they lose 100 cap as well).
Missilles-
Unguided: In 0.4 and below they do splash damage equal ot a smart bomb of the same size class. Guided: Caldari Techs installed parasitic warp enablers found in fighters... Missilles will follow you into warp for a distance. Say 75 AU's for Cruise missilles with max cruuise skill and max cruise spec, less for smaller missilles. (This would certainly make Ravens much more popular in fleet fights wouldn't it).
All of these would be dependent on existing skills, with 2/3rds of each effect coming from the main skill (say large projo, or Cruise missilles), and an additional third from the spec skill. (large hybrid spec).
Oh and in addition there should be a new Module that gives a bonus to Falloff/explosion velocity and secondary weapon effect.
Ok Ive brught these up before, but If tuxford tells me its stupid I won't bring it up ever again (ffer not valid for players and other Devs )
NO
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Player2
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Posted - 2006.10.22 09:48:00 -
[18]
Maybe not secondary on weapon, but primary on damagetype? Make damagetype uniq, eg kinetik have armor piersing ability, explosive - % of damage can not be repaired in space and can destroy hi-slot items randomly, thermal - burn, em - forum penetration (lite ecm effect, capacitor burn, modules offline...) ;)
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Gierling
Gallente Celestial Fleet Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.10.22 19:05:00 -
[19]
Damage types is a possibility...
However I'd still like to make cruise missilles follow people into warp. (no I don't fly a Raven, No I don't have cruise missille 5, I just hate how Raven Pilots don't get to play in fleetbattles)
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