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Yazoul Samaiel
Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.10.22 09:28:00 -
[91]
Originally by: Aramendel
Originally by: Yazoul Samaiel How about we have equal amount of armour and shield on all ship classes and same weaposn for all classes and same dmg types and same base shield dmg and same speed etc etc .
Oh wait ...
Young padawan still has much to learn if he thinks diversity and balance cannot be achieved at the same time.
If u cant put a valid post then take ur stupid smack somewhere else , the diversity is already balanced ppl use different setups and armour tank shield based ships for example ravens etc doesnt mean that it isnt ! "There is no such thing as innocence , only different degrees of guilt"
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Godar Marak
Amarr Return Of Red Dawn
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Posted - 2006.10.22 10:02:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Yazoul Samaiel
the diversity is already balanced ppl use different setups and armour tank shield based ships for example ravens etc doesnt mean that it isnt !
No its not. As long as some weapons doesnt use cap and lets to tank around the clock while others weapons makes you are down to 50% cap after a few volleys doesnt make it balanced.
Raven pwn Amarr at both damage and tank. Ofcorse you think this is balace because you dont know the meaning of the word.
And now, Minmatar is getting rubbished by Tuxford as well, but you cant see that because you are.....special. -------------------- Tuxford you broke my beloved EVE |
Yazoul Samaiel
Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.10.22 10:08:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Godar Marak
Originally by: Yazoul Samaiel
the diversity is already balanced ppl use different setups and armour tank shield based ships for example ravens etc doesnt mean that it isnt !
No its not. As long as some weapons doesnt use cap and lets to tank around the clock while others weapons makes you are down to 50% cap after a few volleys doesnt make it balanced.
Raven pwn Amarr at both damage and tank. Ofcorse you think this is balace because you dont know the meaning of the word.
And now, Minmatar is getting rubbished by Tuxford as well, but you cant see that because you are.....special.
Making fun of a typo and calling me spechial just shows how mature u r , realy it does .
I aint gonna be bothered replying to trash talkers like u , go whine all ur ass off till u quit , changes will be made and we will be playing this game long time after u quit
"There is no such thing as innocence , only different degrees of guilt"
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banannagirl
Minmatar The U-B-H-C
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Posted - 2006.10.22 11:13:00 -
[94]
minmatar wont team with amarr in a million years they hate each other ... gallente and minmat are buddy buddies ..!
regards BG
Link removed, advertising services for real world money is not allowed on the forums - Wrangler |
Ogdru Jahad
Amarr
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Posted - 2006.10.22 11:35:00 -
[95]
zealots, absolutions and apocs if set up right never run out of cap.
not fussed about the rest. -
Think your having a bad day? Imagine this, Your a siamese Twin joined at the hip,Your brother is *** & your not, His lover is comming around and you only have one bottom. |
Mudkest
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Posted - 2006.10.22 11:42:00 -
[96]
Originally by: inSpirAcy
Originally by: TheEndofTheWorld 2 wcs + 2 gyro is good. Astarte can't do that.
that amused me as well
- When talking about the itsy bitsy spider, try not to start with itchy, you'll get the second part wrong as well |
Mudkest
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Posted - 2006.10.22 11:45:00 -
[97]
Originally by: Yazoul Samaiel
Originally by: Tasty Burger
-CCs are irrelevant, and Sleip gets outdamaged by most of the CCs anyway.
-Slipnier = By far better than a nighthawk.
yeah, so it outdamages a nighthawk, does that make sleipnir best cc, or jsut better then nighthawk?
- When talking about the itsy bitsy spider, try not to start with itchy, you'll get the second part wrong as well |
Yazoul Samaiel
Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.10.22 11:49:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Mudkest
Originally by: Yazoul Samaiel
Originally by: Tasty Burger
-CCs are irrelevant, and Sleip gets outdamaged by most of the CCs anyway.
-Slipnier = By far better than a nighthawk.
yeah, so it outdamages a nighthawk, does that make sleipnir best cc, or jsut better then nighthawk?
Minmatar have the best solo hac (Vaga) and also the best insta lock tackler (stiletto) and now u want also the slip to be the best CC , what also do u want ? An insta BBQ button to any target u lock ?
This was to compare between ppl who keep saying Caldari are overpowered . "There is no such thing as innocence , only different degrees of guilt"
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Aramendel
Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Black Reign Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.10.22 12:11:00 -
[99]
Originally by: Yazoul Samaiel If u cant put a valid post then take ur stupid smack somewhere else ,...
Talking to yourself? Pray, show me your "valid post" here? Everything I have seen of you is just plain rubbish, just trolling without saying anything at all.
Plain out fact is that there are significantly more armortankers than shieldtankers. In EOS 02 CCP published the total BS numbers ingame. Even if you handled all caldari BSs as shieldtankers and 1/3 of all tempests as well you still got twice as many armortankers than shieldtankers.
If that is "balance" for you you should look the word up.
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Yazoul Samaiel
Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.10.22 12:20:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Aramendel
Originally by: Yazoul Samaiel If u cant put a valid post then take ur stupid smack somewhere else ,...
Talking to yourself? Pray, show me your "valid post" here? Everything I have seen of you is just plain rubbish, just trolling without saying anything at all.
Plain out fact is that there are significantly more armortankers than shieldtankers. In EOS 02 CCP published the total BS numbers ingame. Even if you handled all caldari BSs as shieldtankers and 1/3 of all tempests as well you still got twice as many armortankers than shieldtankers.
If that is "balance" for you you should look the word up.
So this padawn rubish u wrote is not considered trollign then
You realy dont get it do ya ??? Shield / armour/structure are what compose the ship total hit points , u have 0% EM on hsields and 60% on Armour in gegeral on every signle ship in eve with exception to mini T2 ships liek vaga and munin , if ur dealing mainly EM and thermal dmg ur takign shields out fasters and slower on armour , just like u have 60% expl on shields resistance and 10 % on armour which will be the reverse of this stiuation , shields will go down slower and amrour will go down faster . Again i dotn care if ppl keep tanking armour on ravens , the fact is this is the ship resistances and the fact also raven for example has mroe shields than armour , ppl tank armour so u can kill them faster is not realy a problem since most BS can deal 3 types of dmg at least , Guns deal 2 types of dmg and the droens u carry deal the 3rd , some BS deal 4 types of dmg but they have their disadvantages so nothign is perfect , all have their pros and cons . If u cant see any point or valid argument then i realy cba to explain more. "There is no such thing as innocence , only different degrees of guilt"
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Wrayeth
Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2006.10.22 12:47:00 -
[101]
Alrighty, having skimmed this thread, I have the following things to say:
1.) I don't normally make personal attacks, but you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about, Lofty. Go sell your Gallente characters on the sell forum, then buy Minmatar-only specced characters. Following that, spend a month flying Minmatar, including the tempest and typhoon, then come back and have a chat. Until then, you are not qualified to talk on the matter.
2.) Guys, quit bashing on Tuxford. The more grief you give him (as opposed to reasoned, intelligent discourse), the less likely he is to want to help us. I'm just as worried about projectiles in general and their crap DPS post-rigs, but I try to avoid personal attacks.
3.) Everything is relative. While Minmatar DPS may look workable at first glance, you have to realize that the more tanking gets increased, the less the relative effectiveness of all the weapons becomes. The change is more pronounced in low-DPS weapons than high-DPS. This means that even autocannons will be hurting once the tanking changes introduced by rigs come into play (hell, autocannons are sub-par now, at least on the battleship level).
4.) This has been said a thousand times, but the typhoon doesn't have enough grid or CPU to put on a proper fitting. Until this changes, the bonus that was changed from projectile optimal range to missile rate of fire will still not be enough.
5.) The tempest is neither powerful offensively nor defensively. It inflicts crap DPS, tanks like a wet paper sack (in comparison to other battleships), and the fact that it's faster than the others is nice, but not enough to counteract the first two. Versatility? Meh. A ship that isn't good at any one thing but is rather mediocre at all things is not versatile; true versatility comes when you can choose to do any one of a number of different things and do it well.
I would add a sixth about the sleipnir not being able to fit a web with a properly shield tanked autocannon setup, but I won't be able to use mine for about another two weeks, so I don't know how much that affects its actual PvP ability.
Anyway, those are my thoughts. Duct tape for the lose! -Wrayeth
"Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!"
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Aramendel
Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Black Reign Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.10.22 15:50:00 -
[102]
Originally by: Yazoul Samaiel So this padawn rubish u wrote is not considered trollign then
You realy dont get it do ya ??? Shield / armour/structure are what compose the ship total hit points , u have 0% EM on hsields and 60% on Armour in gegeral on every signle ship in eve with exception to mini T2 ships liek vaga and munin , if ur dealing mainly EM and thermal dmg ur takign shields out fasters and slower on armour , just like u have 60% expl on shields resistance and 10 % on armour which will be the reverse of this stiuation , shields will go down slower and amrour will go down faster .
I do not know which game you are playing, but in eve people usually fit something which is called "tank".
This tank can consist for of harderners (with the most effective being 2 EAN2 + DC) and/or plates. In both cases we have a 100% effective hitpoint increase (or more in case of oversized plates) for armor. Same effect with shieldtank.
Now, as said, under perfect conditions with the current base armor/shieldtank distribution we have twice as many armortankers as shieldtankers. Meaning we have out of 3 ships 2 with 200% armor, 100% shields and 1 ship with 100% armor, 200% shield.
An "average" out of those has 166% armor, 133% shield.
Also, unlike in your dreamworld armortanking ships usually have more base armor than shield and shieldtankers no base shield than armor, so the difference is, if anything, bigger than this.
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Miri Tirzan
Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.10.22 17:03:00 -
[103]
Well, after reading the changes and seeing what is in store for Minnie and Amarr ship users I am just giving in. I fly all Amarr but T2 and Titans with beam/pulse laser spec but now... Started training up my caldari ship and weapon skills since they seem to be the flavor of choice for the Dev's.
svetlana - "whining gets you stuff. that is why humans got to the top of the food chain and all the other animals got nerfed."
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Lisento Slaven
Amarr The Drekla Consortium New Eve Order
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Posted - 2006.10.22 17:12:00 -
[104]
Originally by: Yazoul Samaiel
You realy dont get it do ya ??? Shield / armour/structure are what compose the ship total hit points , u have 0% EM on hsields and 60% on Armour in gegeral on every signle ship in eve with exception to mini T2 ships liek vaga and munin , if ur dealing mainly EM and thermal dmg ur takign shields out fasters and slower on armour , just like u have 60% expl on shields resistance and 10 % on armour which will be the reverse of this stiuation , shields will go down slower and amrour will go down faster . Again i dotn care if ppl keep tanking armour on ravens , the fact is this is the ship resistances and the fact also raven for example has mroe shields than armour , ppl tank armour so u can kill them faster is not realy a problem since most BS can deal 3 types of dmg at least , Guns deal 2 types of dmg and the droens u carry deal the 3rd , some BS deal 4 types of dmg but they have their disadvantages so nothign is perfect , all have their pros and cons . If u cant see any point or valid argument then i realy cba to explain more.
I don't think you understand the arguments that other people are giving - which means you aren't arguing against them in any way. You're just kind of talking and not understanding what the others, such as Aramendel, are saying.
They're saying even though Amarr eat shields up - most ships do not care about their shields. Only the Raven and Scorpion...and sometimes the Tempest (in terms of battleships) really use shield tanks over the others. If there were more ships in the game that preferred shield tanking (Rokh and tier 3 Minmatar BS for example) the Amarr would be a bit more effective. ---
Lisento Slaven wants to be a Space Whaler in EVE.
Put in space whales!
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Yazoul Samaiel
Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.10.22 17:20:00 -
[105]
Originally by: Lisento Slaven They're saying even though Amarr eat shields up - most ships do not care about their shields. Only the Raven and Scorpion...and sometimes the Tempest (in terms of battleships) really use shield tanks over the others. If there were more ships in the game that preferred shield tanking (Rokh and tier 3 Minmatar BS for example) the Amarr would be a bit more effective.
Ferox Raven Scorp Moa Carcal Eagle Hapry Cerb Hawk Tempest nighthawk vulture
Rohk aint in game yet so i wotn even go there i am tlakign abotu stuff thats already in game
Yes i dont understand what i am talking clearly sicne the above list of ships are shield based ships but no they are not fit for the argument as if it is not even enough that 1 entire race is shield based. "There is no such thing as innocence , only different degrees of guilt"
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Lisento Slaven
Amarr The Drekla Consortium New Eve Order
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Posted - 2006.10.22 17:33:00 -
[106]
Edited by: Lisento Slaven on 22/10/2006 17:33:54
Originally by: Yazoul Samaiel
Originally by: Lisento Slaven They're saying even though Amarr eat shields up - most ships do not care about their shields. Only the Raven and Scorpion...and sometimes the Tempest (in terms of battleships) really use shield tanks over the others. If there were more ships in the game that preferred shield tanking (Rokh and tier 3 Minmatar BS for example) the Amarr would be a bit more effective.
Ferox Raven Scorp Moa Carcal Eagle Hapry Cerb Hawk Tempest nighthawk vulture
Rohk aint in game yet so i wotn even go there i am tlakign abotu stuff thats already in game
Yes i dont understand what i am talking clearly sicne the above list of ships are shield based ships but no they are not fit for the argument as if it is not even enough that 1 entire race is shield based.
I only listed 3 BS because I said in terms of BS.
If I wanted to list every other ship in the game you didn't mention the proportion is insane =P
EDIT: And I said you don't understand WHAT THE OTHER PEOPLE ARE SAYING. ---
Lisento Slaven wants to be a Space Whaler in EVE.
Put in space whales!
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Aramendel
Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Black Reign Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.10.22 19:04:00 -
[107]
Originally by: Yazoul Samaiel ....as if it is not even enough that 1 entire race is shield based.
Exactly. It isn't.
Care to explain why it "should" be enough?
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Lucian Alucard
Caldari Forsaken Empire
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Posted - 2006.10.22 20:51:00 -
[108]
Radios just need their old Thermal damage back now. Say a 8 Em/12 Therm Spread for Raidios and Auroras stay as is. Also the Cap drain bonus does need to be upped since if you do the math the Abaddon and Geddon will ((And in the case of the geddon already do!)) burn out their cap horrendously fast.
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Slender Brenda
Caldari Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.10.22 23:01:00 -
[109]
Originally by: Aramendel
Originally by: Yazoul Samaiel ....as if it is not even enough that 1 entire race is shield based.
Exactly. It isn't.
Care to explain why it "should" be enough?
Technically, domi was good shield tanker before they boosted plates, eanms and most importantly, nerfed gank setups and changed ecm. I remember 6x h. nosf domis with shield tank and full rack of pdus. Sounds horrible these days, doesn't it?
Thing is that em damage sucks in smaller engagements if people tank ships. And if they tank(wcs 4tw? ), it's armor due to fubared ecm/scram/injector stuff....
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Aramendel
Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Black Reign Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.10.22 23:09:00 -
[110]
You misunderstand - I did not ask why most people armortank. The reasons for that are obvious.
Yazoul seems to be the opinion that 1 shieldtank based race "is enough" for balance issues between armor & shieldtank (and the resulting resistance issues of EM damage). I was asking him to explain this statement.
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Yazoul Samaiel
Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.10.23 07:10:00 -
[111]
Originally by: Aramendel You misunderstand - I did not ask why most people armortank. The reasons for that are obvious.
Yazoul seems to be the opinion that 1 shieldtank based race "is enough" for balance issues between armor & shieldtank (and the resulting resistance issues of EM damage). I was asking him to explain this statement.
Caldari are not the only race that has the capability to shield tank , almost 80% of mini ships can , both of their BS and their BC in additon to their hacs and afs can shield tank so u have got almost a 50% of ships in game that has the ability to shield tank and as it was explained above ur post that domi also can be a shield tanker. Ppl choosign to armour or shield tank varies according to setups and situations so again if one of these setups becomes the flavour of the month then CCP wont nerf the whole thing just to counter that setup , ppl are the ones who have to use their braisn and try and coutner it with a different one . As for the amarr whine about EAN and DC , did anyone wonder what the droens u got are supposed to do ??? Geddon carries 5 heavy droens and they can be T2 , lets say its EM dmg will suck on armour while its thermal and Berserkers T2 do all the work , so again where is the argument ??? If ppl look out of the box , try sniping a harpy at 180 km with an eagle (Eagle is supposed to be the sniping hac ) and when u see the pathetic dmg that wotn even tickel its shields then u will see that everythign is not and WILL NOT Be a coocki cutter. "There is no such thing as innocence , only different degrees of guilt"
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Ruah Piskonit
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2006.10.23 07:51:00 -
[112]
Yes, we are in trouble, but all I know is. Victory will be sweater after winning in my Amarr ships. If they are broken, I will find a way to make them work. Each race gets its turn to be the 'overpowered' ones. Its like a tourch that is passed around. With or without it, I have managed to survive - and many others will continue to make due. I fear however that it is not the Caldari shield tankers that are going to emerge with the beacon of power, but the Gallente. . . But they will burn to my lasers all the same.
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Tommy Vercetti
Minmatar Custodes Valhallae Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2006.10.23 08:20:00 -
[113]
Edited by: Tommy Vercetti on 23/10/2006 08:21:18
Originally by: Yazoul Samaiel
Caldari are not the only race that has the capability to shield tank , almost 80% of mini ships can , both of their BS and their BC in additon to their hacs and afs can shield tank so u have got almost a 50% of ships in game that has the ability to shield tank and as it was explained above ur post that domi also can be a shield tanker.
Erm, good luck shield tanking a phoon with 4 mids, even a pest with 5 is hard depending on setups. How about you give caldari a bs with 4 mids and ask it to shield tank.
100% of minmatars ships are capable of fitting shield mods, how many are capable of doing it better than an armour tank. 80%?
Originally by: Pestillence
It's a game where we fly around in eggs with tubes up our arses. If I want reality I'll go outside.
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Dano Sarum
Giants in the Playground Black Flag Alliance
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Posted - 2006.10.23 08:26:00 -
[114]
Well I have to say, Its obvious tux wants fights to last longer, but hes done it in the most obvious and most idiotic way.
Its going to come down to cap wars now, or maybe even ammo.
Since all gallente ships can basicly use dronebays they win AGAIN... stupidly high armor on them too now, a full rack of NOS and there we have it... drones kill and we all die.
Yes minmitar are now screwed.
On the plus side as somone else said, hes ****ing off more then just the amarr now. For the love of god I wish these changes would appear on Sisi first, test it, get the feedback and THEN announce it on public forums rather then the "this is whats happening in kali, not really tested it or thought about it just had an idea.... whats that you say? I just ****ed off 50k people?"
========== -Dano GitP Recruitment |
Laboratus
Gallente BGG Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2006.10.23 08:39:00 -
[115]
Edited by: Laboratus on 23/10/2006 08:40:12
Originally by: Tasty Burger
-Vagabond is a wet paper bag and hits like one, its only saving grace is that it is fast. . . . -LOL at carrier being good. -Nanophoon sucks against anyone who knows what they are doing/isnt running an npc setup.
I have a few piles of flowting domi dust that disagrees with your assesment with the Vagas damage ability. And You clearly don't use carriers, (Yea the LOL gave you away) And the Phoon is now the most versitile BS out there. Granted you need to be able to use T2 Launchers, Turrets and Drones to get the best out of it, but hey. Oh yea, and a **** load of fitting mods, but can't win them all...
Originally by: TheEndofTheWorld
Ishtar is a mini-dominix. Can't really do much better than the dominix can. Vagabond actually has a different role. It does something that a BS can't do.(TBH, ishtar, deimos, zealot, cerb are all ... uhm, cool to fly but not exactly practical)
Recons are all good, each have different roles and are all useful(ok, some a bit more than others, but...)
You can buy and fit 5 Domis for the price of an ishtar. With minimal improvement in performance. Ye, it has lower sig radius etc, but it just isn't the same thing. Face to face the Ishtar just can't hold it's own against the Domi. Only a fool brings a knife to a NOS fight, as they say.
Minmatar Recons. Webbing from outside 100km. Autch. I never saw that one coming before it was too late. Mind control and tin hats |
Yazoul Samaiel
Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.10.23 09:20:00 -
[116]
Originally by: Tommy Vercetti
Erm, good luck shield tanking a phoon with 4 mids, even a pest with 5 is hard depending on setups. How about you give caldari a bs with 4 mids and ask it to shield tank.
100% of minmatars ships are capable of fitting shield mods, how many are capable of doing it better than an armour tank. 80%?
Erm, I shield tank it enough to even take a beating in lvl 4 missions tyvm , 4 Mill in engineerign does come in handy "There is no such thing as innocence , only different degrees of guilt"
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Testy Mctest
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Posted - 2006.10.23 09:25:00 -
[117]
Originally by: Yazoul Samaiel
Erm, I shield tank it enough to even take a beating in lvl 4 missions tyvm , 4 Mill in engineerign does come in handy
As has been discussed in many 'OMG I'm so out of the box' threads before, saying "I can do this" doesn't make us disbelieve facts we all know to be true. A 4 midslot slot ship, with poor cap and poor base hp, cannot shield tank effectively.
I won't even bother arguing about the fact you're talking about PvE, and not PvP. Although given most of your comments so far, I really don't expect you to understand the differences...
Originally by: RUNYOUFOOLS
wrong on so many levels you could only be more wrong if you were tuxford.
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Yazoul Samaiel
Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.10.23 09:36:00 -
[118]
Originally by: Testy Mctest
Originally by: Yazoul Samaiel
Erm, I shield tank it enough to even take a beating in lvl 4 missions tyvm , 4 Mill in engineerign does come in handy
As has been discussed in many 'OMG I'm so out of the box' threads before, saying "I can do this" doesn't make us disbelieve facts we all know to be true. A 4 midslot slot ship, with poor cap and poor base hp, cannot shield tank effectively.
I won't even bother arguing about the fact you're talking about PvE, and not PvP. Although given most of your comments so far, I really don't expect you to understand the differences...
Take a chill pill , i was merely givign an example about tanking. And if i can do it what makes it sooo unbelivable? i aitn even usign faction or officer mods just normal T2 or best named, u questioning my pvp abilities coz i made an example about lvl 4 missions ? Just LOL
Given most of ur whining about quiting coz CCP didnt give u the OMGINSTAPWN ship or race , plz quit and rid us of ur whining. "There is no such thing as innocence , only different degrees of guilt"
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Luke Pubcrawler
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Posted - 2006.10.23 10:42:00 -
[119]
Oveur has already said that they are looking at the decreased value of artillerys alpha strike and there are maybe a few things that might help balance it. It sounds bad a the minute but hold off and see things in full before going into panic mode.
The cap advantages of projectiles will certainlycome into play with longer fights, although this might take an ammo size reduction or magazine increase, that is yet to be seen. If fight are now going to last twice as long then a ship whose weapons fire without using cap has at least one thing it its favour.
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Exiled One
Amarr Imperial Shipment
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Posted - 2006.10.23 10:48:00 -
[120]
Fix EANM, switch crystal EM for thermal and vice versa, boost artillery dmg mod by x percent => decrease artillery rate of fire x percent -- boost autocannon dmg mod by x percent => decrase autocannon rate of fire x percent, projectile ammo should be 0.001 m3 per unit -- ALL THIS BEFORE APPLYING THE IDIOTIC 50% HP BOOST PATCH -- and if you do all these changes: amarr will be FIXED, minmatar won't have alpha strike problems post-patch as well as autocannons running out of ammo. Or i will blow up myself !!
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