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J'Poll
Green Skull LLC
5927
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Posted - 2015.03.07 16:11:44 -
[31] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:ergherhdfgh wrote:Ralph and Ned as things stand now I'm pretty sure that it's random and only a small small sample of people are getting the new NPE. So just rerolling a new toon I don't think guarantees you this. It might be what everybody gets on SiSi however. I'd have to go back and reread the blog on this. CCP Rise wrote:A/B TESTING AND ROLL OUT
Team Pirate Unicorns has been very happy with the results of our previous soft releases (opt-in notifications, beta star map, etc.) which gave us great opportunity (!) to hone and study the impact of each new feature, and so this NPE release will be no different.
Starting some time shortly after the official release of Tiamat, we will begin adding sets of new players to test groups where we can measure their experience without having to expose the entire player base at once. This will give us a chance to spot problems and gather feedback before going live to everyone.
We know some of you will want to give this system a try and so we are planning to make it available to all players on our Singularity test server this Friday, the 20th of February. indeed **** it, i need another alt anyway
What I still love:
CCP does a silent guinea pig test on new players...and then put the feedback thread on the forum (how many people are known to use the forum) and then even better...put it in a place where trials can't post (instead of in NCQA).
Something tells me, they (as usual) don't want to hear bad stuff about their ideas.
Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy
Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded
Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
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Gregor Parud
Ordo Ardish
1272
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Posted - 2015.03.07 16:30:47 -
[32] - Quote
J'Poll wrote:Something tells me, they (as usual) don't want to hear bad stuff about their ideas.
Given the reactions of a certain DEV in rookie channel it's more a lack of caring and, dare I say it, understanding. |
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
415
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Posted - 2015.03.07 19:09:03 -
[33] - Quote
So is it on SiSi currently or was it just that one day?
Anyway if any new players are reading this and having a very difficult time with it I recommend either filing a GM ticket and asking for the old tutorial system or asking one of us vets here to get you up to speed. |
Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
9015
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Posted - 2015.03.07 19:24:23 -
[34] - Quote
ergherhdfgh wrote:So is it on SiSi currently or was it just that one day?
Anyway if any new players are reading this and having a very difficult time with it I recommend either filing a GM ticket and asking for the old tutorial system or asking one of us vets here to get you up to speed. I have no idea, I'll check sisi once it's patched up. I rolled my new alt (this ones cute bet one of ye will spot her) but I just got the old aura that I'm familiar with.
"I'm also quite confident that you are laughing
and it's the kind of laugh that gives normal people shivers."
=]I[=
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Qaw Husanak
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2015.03.08 00:39:56 -
[35] - Quote
Didn't realize this guy was using something new.
Sounds like a horrid system. If something isn't ready for prime time why force it on someone completely new.
Hopefully CCP improves it or dumps it. Perhaps they should even mail people that ended up with it and never subbed.
I mean no shortage of players around when I'm in game, still drying up the supply of new pilots seems like a bad idea. |
Zoe Athame
Black Fox Marauders Spaceship Bebop
225
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Posted - 2015.03.08 01:07:00 -
[36] - Quote
I think the idea is that even with the old tutorial, most players still didn't go past the trial month. They did all the tutorial stuff but then ran out of in-game guidance so they didn't know how to have fun. Those that did stay are the ones that reached out to other players and joined the community.
So by minimizing the tutorial they are removing the false expectation of in-game guidance and encouraging new players to interact with others right from the start.
I can't say the current system is better or worse, but I wouldn't judge it by the public ragequits. These same quitters may very well have thought the exact same things after doing a weeks worth of tutorials. |
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
417
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Posted - 2015.03.08 04:42:07 -
[37] - Quote
I think that a lot of other games have taught many people "bad" habits. Back in 2003 it seems like computer games about exploring where much more of a thing. Then some games decided to dumb themselves down for a wider audience and lost their edge.
Eve is the kind of game that 6 years on and you can still be playing around with stuff to see how it works. There is always something for you to try out and learn in this game. That's what I love about this game and that is why you can play it for years and not get bored with it.
However for some new players that are used to being lead by the hand and breadcrumbed to level cap and "end game content" with in the first week might try eve out and a week into it realize that they still don't have a clue what's going on. Some players are excited by that and some aren't. Unfortunately I think that the players that came to eve because they were bored with some other linear game could love eve if they could get over the bad habits that got them to leave the other game in the first place.
I just can't think of an easy way to change that perspective. |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
4661
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Posted - 2015.03.08 06:40:46 -
[38] - Quote
Alexander L'Espoir wrote:Lost my ship again because I faced some OP NPC and lost 5 hours of work and no ISK left to replace modules so no thank you, passing on nonsense. *sigh*
You could have asked for help. Many people, like myself, love to help new people get their space-feet.
Heck, I give away ISK to new players that don't even ask for it, just because they demonstrate the right attitude for EVE. |
J'Poll
Green Skull LLC
5930
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Posted - 2015.03.08 09:42:25 -
[39] - Quote
Zoe Athame wrote:I think the idea is that even with the old tutorial, most players still didn't go past the trial month. They did all the tutorial stuff but then ran out of in-game guidance so they didn't know how to have fun. Those that did stay are the ones that reached out to other players and joined the community.
So by minimizing the tutorial they are removing the false expectation of in-game guidance and encouraging new players to interact with others right from the start.
I can't say the current system is better or worse, but I wouldn't judge it by the public ragequits. These same quitters may very well have thought the exact same things after doing a weeks worth of tutorials.
You are right in the first part...
The "old" tutorial was too much text and hand holding, so CCP desided to go to the polar opposite of it.
The "new" tutorial has NO guidance what so ever (just what you have to do), but it also doesn't help you get into contact with the community. And we all know how bad the official help channels are when no ISD is around to keep them clear.
Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy
Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded
Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
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Gregor Parud
Ordo Ardish
1277
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Posted - 2015.03.08 10:13:27 -
[40] - Quote
ergherhdfgh wrote:I think that a lot of other games have taught many people "bad" habits. Back in 2003 it seems like computer games about exploring where much more of a thing. Then some games decided to dumb themselves down for a wider audience and lost their edge.
Eve is the kind of game that 6 years on and you can still be playing around with stuff to see how it works. There is always something for you to try out and learn in this game. That's what I love about this game and that is why you can play it for years and not get bored with it.
However for some new players that are used to being lead by the hand and breadcrumbed to level cap and "end game content" with in the first week might try eve out and a week into it realize that they still don't have a clue what's going on. Some players are excited by that and some aren't. Unfortunately I think that the players that came to eve because they were bored with some other linear game could love eve if they could get over the bad habits that got them to leave the other game in the first place.
I just can't think of an easy way to change that perspective.
You're very correct there, however that is not the issue in this case.
Similar to giving someone "rank" and "power" who can't handle it and thinks that shouting and pulling rank is the way to lead, the possible design goal of "lets make it challenging" got given to someone who doesn't understand how to do that and instead made it rigged to fail, which is something inherently different.
If the ONLY guidance you had was a 5 minute long "this is how you target, here's how the mining laser works (while not showing the concept of asteroid belts)" and then gets to "spend 20-100k on 'something', while hanging in space" on the next step then that is rigged to fail. On top of that they force you to mine: the concept of missions isn't explained and expecting people to rat in a 1.0 system isn't exactly going to work, especially not without explaining the concept and while flying a standard fit Ibis. It's rigged to fail.
And then we get to the obvious issue of how they messed up the order of some of these opportunities that makes it all even more confusing which, given the very short NPE that it is, is a blunder of hilarious proportions.
CCP let someone at the controls who wasn't ready for that and instead of making sure some sort of QA was in place they let it happen. In an actual business fckups like that would have had consequences. |
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J'Poll
Green Skull LLC
5933
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Posted - 2015.03.08 10:23:25 -
[41] - Quote
Gregor Parud wrote:ergherhdfgh wrote:I think that a lot of other games have taught many people "bad" habits. Back in 2003 it seems like computer games about exploring where much more of a thing. Then some games decided to dumb themselves down for a wider audience and lost their edge.
Eve is the kind of game that 6 years on and you can still be playing around with stuff to see how it works. There is always something for you to try out and learn in this game. That's what I love about this game and that is why you can play it for years and not get bored with it.
However for some new players that are used to being lead by the hand and breadcrumbed to level cap and "end game content" with in the first week might try eve out and a week into it realize that they still don't have a clue what's going on. Some players are excited by that and some aren't. Unfortunately I think that the players that came to eve because they were bored with some other linear game could love eve if they could get over the bad habits that got them to leave the other game in the first place.
I just can't think of an easy way to change that perspective. You're very correct there, however that is not the issue in this case. Similar to giving someone "rank" and "power" who can't handle it and thinks that shouting and pulling rank is the way to lead, the possible design goal of "lets make it challenging" got given to someone who doesn't understand how to do that and instead made it rigged to fail, which is something inherently different. If the ONLY guidance you had was a 5 minute long "this is how you target, here's how the mining laser works (while not showing the concept of asteroid belts)" and then gets to "spend 20-100k on 'something', while hanging in space" on the next step then that is rigged to fail. On top of that they force you to mine: the concept of missions or ratting isn't explained and expecting people to do either in a standard fit ibis while backed by zero knowledge or explanation is terrible. It's rigged to fail. And then we get to the obvious issue of how they messed up the order of some of these opportunities that makes it all even more confusing which, given the very short NPE that it is, is a blunder of hilarious proportions. CCP let someone at the controls who wasn't ready for that and instead of making sure some sort of QA was in place they let it happen. In an actual business fckups like that would have had consequences.
Or....
Roll this out, and have a DEV/GM automatically be in contact with the player, as they are trying to do your impossible tutorial.
Let's see how long your employee lasts till he finds out it is **** and walks over to the person who made it and punches him.
Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy
Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded
Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
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ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
418
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Posted - 2015.03.08 16:25:12 -
[42] - Quote
Zoe Athame wrote:I think the idea is that even with the old tutorial, most players still didn't go past the trial month. They did all the tutorial stuff but then ran out of in-game guidance so they didn't know how to have fun. Those that did stay are the ones that reached out to other players and joined the community.
So by minimizing the tutorial they are removing the false expectation of in-game guidance and encouraging new players to interact with others right from the start.
I can't say the current system is better or worse, but I wouldn't judge it by the public ragequits. These same quitters may very well have thought the exact same things after doing a weeks worth of tutorials. Zoe this is an excellent point that frankly I am a bit bothered that I did not come up with on my own.
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ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
418
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Posted - 2015.03.08 16:51:10 -
[43] - Quote
J'Poll wrote:
Roll this out, and have a DEV/GM automatically be in contact with the player, as they are trying to do your impossible tutorial.
This is a good point. They could have let the new players know that they were part of an experimental NPE and given the opportunities for feedback (pun intended).
I had a cousin try this game about a year ago and during the tutorials he had a GM contact him to see how things were going. Just out of the blue, he had no issues and filed no petitions. So that type of thing has been done before.
I guess in this game of player created content maybe we need to come up with the solution. It's even possible that we could get CCP involved in the solution. Maybe would could ask for a certain amount of blog space on our evegate profiles to be able to post tutorials and link them. Or some how direct new players to the NC Q&A section of the forum or develop some type of system where vet can volunteer to be hooked up with rookies who have questions or something like that. |
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