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pdidydidy
Griefs and Queefs
0
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Posted - 2011.12.25 09:02:00 -
[301] - Quote
BEINBE wrote:pdidydidy wrote:BEINBE wrote:I couldn't agree more with this idea. I don't pvp except in war decs (and that's in hi-sec) because I am too scared of loosing my implants. Then I am stuck to hi-sec which can get really boring after some time.
If CCP doesn't react to this thread they really are letting their subscribers down imho... So you want to pvp without consequence? Sorry, but this is not what eve is about. Also, if you get podded in highsec then you really shouldn't be pvping. Get a jump clone, problem solved. There are other ways of getting a jumpclone without grinding standing. I don't owe a toon with standing higher then 2. Have about 2-4 clones on each one. Pvp without consequence? I think it's enough to loose your ship, not having to worry about also loosing implants, or if you are in a JC loosing training time (time is money). I have never been podded in hi-sec, read my post again, I said hi-sec is the only place I pvp (in war decs) because my pod is safe there. If I get a JC I loose training time which is what this whole thread is all about, having to JC and loose training time for a little pvp fun. Then there is a timer so you are stuck in your JC for 24 hours, instead of just being able to JC back after the fight. And good to know that you have 2-4 clones, I really couldn't care less...
I believe this was an idea brought up to benefit null players...not hi sec wardec carebears. According to your logic all implants should be removed cuz losing a ship is enough...wow! Yeah, time is money and this is one of the many great things about eve online. You have to make choices. Some choices may not benefit you in the way you like. There are plenty of other MMOs that offer your preferred style of gameplay.
If you are sweating your implants that much cuz u know you are gonna lose them, then perhaps you should refrain from your "little pvp fun"
In any case...I'm done with ya. You may return to killing retrievers in high sec...beep..blurp...durp... |
Levo Harkonnen
Salty Nut Attack Squirrels
3
|
Posted - 2011.12.27 01:33:00 -
[302] - Quote
Learning implants reward good players. People in this thread complain about learning implants because they got podded and are mad about it.
My opinion? Deal with it.gif |
Phoehnix
United Highsec Front The 99 Percent
18
|
Posted - 2011.12.27 09:57:00 -
[303] - Quote
Can't agree with this, the ones who wishes to spend the extra isk and take the risk of getting implants should definately train skills faster. |
Max Von Sydow
Droneboat Diplomacy
97
|
Posted - 2011.12.27 19:11:00 -
[304] - Quote
Max Von Sydow wrote:This reminds me of an old thread that had a fairly interesting proposal on how to fix this problem.
The idea was more or less to have learning boosters that temporarily (maybe 24h) give you a boost in an attribute, each taking a different booster slot, each giving a bonus in a different attribute, coming in different grades ranging from +1 boosts to +5 boosts. These implants would not stack with implants so if you already have implants the boosters wouldn't do anything, unless the booster effect is higher than the implants. So if you have +3 implants and inject a +4 booster you will have a +4 bonus for the duration of the booster. I personally liked this idea since it mean that I for a small cost can PvP without losing training time and not having to risk my learning implants, while at the same time having the drawback that I would have to spend some extra isk each time I want to PvP.
Just bumping this idea because I believe it would satisfy both sides of this debate. |
Velin Dhal
Blood Phage Syndicate The Dominion Empire
70
|
Posted - 2011.12.27 19:15:00 -
[305] - Quote
BEINBE wrote:pdidydidy wrote:BEINBE wrote:I couldn't agree more with this idea. I don't pvp except in war decs (and that's in hi-sec) because I am too scared of loosing my implants. Then I am stuck to hi-sec which can get really boring after some time.
If CCP doesn't react to this thread they really are letting their subscribers down imho... So you want to pvp without consequence? Sorry, but this is not what eve is about. Also, if you get podded in highsec then you really shouldn't be pvping. Get a jump clone, problem solved. There are other ways of getting a jumpclone without grinding standing. I don't owe a toon with standing higher then 2. Have about 2-4 clones on each one. Pvp without consequence? I think it's enough to loose your ship, not having to worry about also loosing implants, or if you are in a JC loosing training time (time is money). I have never been podded in hi-sec, read my post again, I said hi-sec is the only place I pvp (in war decs) because my pod is safe there. If I get a JC I loose training time which is what this whole thread is all about, having to JC and loose training time for a little pvp fun. Then there is a timer so you are stuck in your JC for 24 hours, instead of just being able to JC back after the fight. And good to know that you have 2-4 clones, I really couldn't care less...
We're all very sorry that your too scared to leave highsec but that is not a reason to eliminate a part of the game. Your lack of courage is not our problem. This is probably the worst argument to support this proposal that I have seen posted here.
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
111
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Posted - 2011.12.27 19:25:00 -
[306] - Quote
The underlying problem with implants in this game is pod killing/saving mechanics are stupid.
In empire killing/saving a pod is a matter of how good your internet connection is. In null sec/wh its just a matter of whether there is a bubble or not.
In either case there is no real game play or skill involved in saving/killing a pod. Yet allot hangs in the balance!
This proposal has some merit because it makes it so there can't be as much hanging in the balance of this terrible mechanic.
A better solution would be for ccp to make pod killing/saving mechanics better. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Roland Schlosser
Vindicator Corporation Strategic Alliance
2
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Posted - 2011.12.28 08:18:00 -
[307] - Quote
If you don't want to lose you +5 set in pvp, don't pvp in them. CCP gave you the option to have more than one clone so you can have more than one set of implants, or none at all. Once again, this is something introduced by an old player, for the 'benefit' of new players. I call shenanigans.
Eve is a game of choices and consequences, if you click the "use jump clone" button you better mean it, because you are told in advance that there is a 24hr timer on using it again. If this means that you happen to be in your +5 clone when delve gets attacked by whoever the f--k is out there now, and you don't want to risk losing your training clone, then tough ****, go tomorrow.
I have had a +5 set since I could afford them and that has never stopped me from roaming with my friends whenever I damn well please, and I live primarily in WH systems. I'm smart about it, and stay in a group. I do everything I can to make sure I come out of the fight pod intact. But if I lose it? oh well, time to start saving again.
If new players can't afford uber implants, then the game mechanics must be working because uber implants are designed to be expensive. New players, unless they sell plex, won't have that kind of isk for a while. In my opinion uber implants are intended to be a reward for the older players who have stuck it out and have earned some accelerated training times or better ship stats.
If i missed the point of the thread, please let me know so i can amend my post, it's 3am and I'm very tired. |
Velin Dhal
Blood Phage Syndicate The Dominion Empire
70
|
Posted - 2011.12.28 17:52:00 -
[308] - Quote
I would also like to point out that your training time as a new player is much different than when your an older player. As a new player, you primary train skills that are between the 1x to 5x training times. Older players are in a far different situation. We have to train skills in the 8x to 14x range. Newer players don't need the +5 learning implants as much as older players do. If they have to train in +3 implants for a while, it really isn't a big deal. They don't have to sit through 52 day skills when they want something to level 5. I can understand helping out the new players a bit. Though in truth, I don't believe eliminating implants is going to help them. Yes, they'll train faster but I doubt there will be any more motivation to pvp because of it. What I have really noticed in this game, is that in most cases, the ones who want to pvp, do. The ones who don't, won't. No amount of elimination toward those expenses, short of making pvp risk free, will persuade them otherwise. And that, is something we cannot do. |
Takeshi Yamato
eXceed Inc. No Holes Barred
49
|
Posted - 2011.12.28 18:26:00 -
[309] - Quote
Velin Dhal wrote:I would also like to point out that your training time as a new player is much different than when your an older player. As a new player, you primary train skills that are between the 1x to 5x training times. Older players are in a far different situation. We have to train skills in the 8x to 14x range. Newer players don't need the +5 learning implants as much as older players do. If they have to train in +3 implants for a while, it really isn't a big deal. They don't have to sit through 52 day skills when they want something to level 5.
You got it backwards.
New players need the faster training time because they can't do anything well.
Veterans on the other hand are in no rush - they can already fly a ship for every occasion and then some and have what they need to secure an income. |
Alexander Jabez
Reaper Co. The Dominion Empire
3
|
Posted - 2011.12.28 20:33:00 -
[310] - Quote
Takeshi Yamato wrote:Velin Dhal wrote:I would also like to point out that your training time as a new player is much different than when your an older player. As a new player, you primary train skills that are between the 1x to 5x training times. Older players are in a far different situation. We have to train skills in the 8x to 14x range. Newer players don't need the +5 learning implants as much as older players do. If they have to train in +3 implants for a while, it really isn't a big deal. They don't have to sit through 52 day skills when they want something to level 5. You got it backwards. New players need the faster training time because they can't do anything well. Veterans on the other hand are in no rush - they can already fly a ship for every occasion and then some and have what they need to secure an income.
The average train time on a new players skill is like a day. You wanna give them natural +5's to drop it by an hour or so per skill? Not worth it. The way its set up works fine, you learn the game as you train and by the time you can fly the bigger and better ships you are more skilled w/ skill points and your personal ability to fly. Throw a noob into a 60 mil s/p toon just means he's going to be losing tech 3's instead of frigates. |
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Velicitia
Open Designs
254
|
Posted - 2011.12.28 20:55:00 -
[311] - Quote
Alexander Jabez wrote:Takeshi Yamato wrote:Velin Dhal wrote:I would also like to point out that your training time as a new player is much different than when your an older player. As a new player, you primary train skills that are between the 1x to 5x training times. Older players are in a far different situation. We have to train skills in the 8x to 14x range. Newer players don't need the +5 learning implants as much as older players do. If they have to train in +3 implants for a while, it really isn't a big deal. They don't have to sit through 52 day skills when they want something to level 5. You got it backwards. New players need the faster training time because they can't do anything well. Veterans on the other hand are in no rush - they can already fly a ship for every occasion and then some and have what they need to secure an income. The average train time on a new players skill is like a day. You wanna give them natural +5's to drop it by an hour or so per skill? Not worth it. The way its set up works fine, you learn the game as you train and by the time you can fly the bigger and better ships you are more skilled w/ skill points and your personal ability to fly. Throw a noob into a 60 mil s/p toon just means he's going to be losing tech 3's instead of frigates.
On the upside ... the tears. |
Leela Sirene
The Scope Gallente Federation
9
|
Posted - 2011.12.29 16:58:00 -
[312] - Quote
The implants are as useless as the learning skills were before. Exactly the same issue. Supported. |
Alexander Jabez
Reaper Co. The Dominion Empire
3
|
Posted - 2011.12.29 20:12:00 -
[313] - Quote
Velicitia wrote:Alexander Jabez wrote:Takeshi Yamato wrote:Velin Dhal wrote:I would also like to point out that your training time as a new player is much different than when your an older player. As a new player, you primary train skills that are between the 1x to 5x training times. Older players are in a far different situation. We have to train skills in the 8x to 14x range. Newer players don't need the +5 learning implants as much as older players do. If they have to train in +3 implants for a while, it really isn't a big deal. They don't have to sit through 52 day skills when they want something to level 5. You got it backwards. New players need the faster training time because they can't do anything well. Veterans on the other hand are in no rush - they can already fly a ship for every occasion and then some and have what they need to secure an income. The average train time on a new players skill is like a day. You wanna give them natural +5's to drop it by an hour or so per skill? Not worth it. The way its set up works fine, you learn the game as you train and by the time you can fly the bigger and better ships you are more skilled w/ skill points and your personal ability to fly. Throw a noob into a 60 mil s/p toon just means he's going to be losing tech 3's instead of frigates. On the upside ... the tears.
LOL |
Obsidiana
White-Noise
45
|
Posted - 2011.12.30 17:28:00 -
[314] - Quote
Let's take a closer look at new characters.
New characters are the only ones who can use the only attribute enhancing booster in the game. Not long ago CCP gave them out free with new accounts. You can still get them in boxed editions of Eve for the cost of a months subscription. Combined with +3s (which takes minuets to train), they get effective +6 implants for 35 days. You can even go for +4s in a reasonable amount of time for +7 effectiveness (bonus: access to various combat implants). Add a third neural remap (up until Jan. 5th), and new players are in a prime position.
Remove all of these bonuses and new players will train more slowly for the first critical month*. After that, two +3s or +4s are not expensive. Add to that the low cost of low SP clones and now implants are even more affordable to younger players.
The real concern, which few are outright saying, is +5s. Those are costly**. A young player really cannot afford to lose those, but they can afford them (one at a time) and can keep them in a highsec jump clone (or station bound). Many corps have standings that give instant access to jump clones. Even still, many argue they are not worth the cost, even in highsec, because they do not make that big of a difference. Take two +4s vs. nothing and you see a jump. Go from there to two +5s and you only notice it when training high multiplier skills to 5.
For older players, you see more complaints about the price of medical clones.
* In light of extending trials to two months, I think extending the booster to two months or more is worth considering. ** I recommended various cost control methods and proposals in previous posts. |
Xander Hunt
7
|
Posted - 2011.12.30 23:30:00 -
[315] - Quote
I support the idea of allowing players up to 6 months to get the training bonuses while us vets are waiting on our month long level 5 skill. This will get them into better ships faster to go do that PvP thing all you young'ns are doin today. |
Velin Dhal
Blood Phage Syndicate The Dominion Empire
70
|
Posted - 2011.12.31 19:27:00 -
[316] - Quote
The question becomes:
Is it in the best interest of a new player to be putting them into the biggest ships possible in the least amount of time ?
I say no, it isn't in their best interest.
The faster you put new players into bigger ships, the worse off they are going to be. A large part of playing this game is learning how to fly your ship. Just because you can sit in it, doesn't mean you can fly it. A new player who joins a corperation right out of the gate has people to guide them along but lets face the facts. There are a lot of players who don't join a corperation for months. Those players often have no one to guide them along. If we're looking to help new players, then we need to think what is best for all players. Not just the ones helping you pvp.
Max SP/hour is not always a good thing. Especially when you have no idea what your doing. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1457
|
Posted - 2011.12.31 21:01:00 -
[317] - Quote
you're all over this as if it's going to end up with 6 month old characters flying perfect titans or something |
Velin Dhal
Blood Phage Syndicate The Dominion Empire
70
|
Posted - 2012.01.01 16:24:00 -
[318] - Quote
Andski wrote:you're all over this as if it's going to end up with 6 month old characters flying perfect titans or something
Nah. If a 6 month old toon wants to fly a perfect titan, they are just going to go to the character bazaar and buy a toon that CAN fly one. At least it will have the support skills trained. (I would hope anyway.)
What I'm talking about here are new toons being able to get into battleships and flying horribly fit Ravens that have 300dps tanks for pve. I have seen a lot of players flying around in battleships with less than 6M sp when they don't have anywhere near the support skills to be flying those ships.
A new player dumps all the isk they have into one battleship and then loses it for whatever reason because they are in truth unable to fly it. Then they have no money to buy another ship. That is more of a detractor than not training as fast as people you've never seen. We need to come up with a better way to teach people to fit their ships. Either that or a way to bang it into new players heads that they need to train support skills BEFORE they get into a bigger ships, not after. |
Xorv
Questionable Acquisitions
36
|
Posted - 2012.01.02 00:00:00 -
[319] - Quote
Wasn't sure if I would support this one, but the more I think about it Learning Implants are a further punishment for risk takers and a reward for risk adverse PvEers, which is bad.
Alternative solutions would be something along the lines that characters with +4 and +5s forfeit Concord Protection, but would really be much simpler to just remove them. |
Velin Dhal
Blood Phage Syndicate The Dominion Empire
74
|
Posted - 2012.01.02 03:02:00 -
[320] - Quote
Xorv wrote:Wasn't sure if I would support this one, but the more I think about it Learning Implants are a further punishment for risk takers and a reward for risk adverse PvEers, which is bad.
Alternative solutions would be something along the lines that characters with +4 and +5s forfeit Concord Protection, but would really be much simpler to just remove them.
I honestly don't think I agree with your first sentence.
I don't see EVE as a race to get the most SP. I really don't care if someone has more SP than I do, so long as I can train at a good speed. If someone of comparable age to my toon has more SP than me because they sit in +5 implants all day, it really doesn't matter to me. I personally don't sit in +5s. I have a clone with them but I generally only use it when I know I'm not going to be playing for at least 24 hours. That way it doesn't interfere with something critical.
However, I don't see it as a punishment. The reason being, is that I choose not to sit in them. Everyone in this game has that choice. The same goes for High-grade slave implants and Crystals. Those are far more expensive than +5 learning implants are. If you get podded in 0.0 and lose them, your out far more isk than if you lost +5 implants. So people generally choose not to fly with them in, whilst in 0.0. From my understanding of your first post and from the proposal spoken of, it should be the same thing. However, no one has made mention that I recall about the removal of such implants. Why ?
I'll tell you why. They don't have a +5 training modifier on them. The way this game is set up, you should be completely fine flying with +5 implants or High-Grades while in lowsec. 0.0 is where the problem arises for people. Which means that MANY pvpers use both set of implants. A fair number I would assume. So in truth, not all "risk takers" have to deal with this "punishment", as you call it.
There is also the fact that if someone in highsec trains in +5 implants and eventually passes you in SP because your only using +3 implants, it really doesn't matter. If a pilot who is only interested in PvE is in a corp that ends up getting war dec'd, he is going to get massacred if he fights. He will have little to no concept of PvP and against a single skilled pilot in a T3 or HAC, will lose his Golem/Paladin.
High SP doesn't really mean a whole lot if you don't know how to PvP and fit your ships for it. There are plenty of pilots out there that have over 70M SP and still don't have their armor compensation skills trained to level 5. So I don't think its safe to say that not training in +5 implants is a punishment of any kind. Its about being able to play the game well in the area of expertise you choose to apply yourself. |
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Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1495
|
Posted - 2012.01.02 03:40:00 -
[321] - Quote
Velin Dhal wrote:Andski wrote:you're all over this as if it's going to end up with 6 month old characters flying perfect titans or something Nah. If a 6 month old toon wants to fly a perfect titan, they are just going to go to the character bazaar and buy a toon that CAN fly one. At least it will have the support skills trained. (I would hope anyway.) What I'm talking about here are new toons being able to get into battleships and flying horribly fit Ravens that have 300dps tanks for pve. I have seen a lot of players flying around in battleships with less than 6M sp when they don't have anywhere near the support skills to be flying those ships. A new player dumps all the isk they have into one battleship and then loses it for whatever reason because they are in truth unable to fly it. Then they have no money to buy another ship. That is more of a detractor than not training as fast as people you've never seen. We need to come up with a better way to teach people to fit their ships. Either that or a way to bang it into new players heads that they need to train support skills BEFORE they get into a bigger ships, not after.
This is where that "graphical skill tree" idea that you shat all over would really help. |
Mars Theran
EVE Rogues EVE Rogues Alliance
21
|
Posted - 2012.01.03 00:16:00 -
[322] - Quote
Roland Schlosser wrote:If you don't want to lose you +5 set in pvp, don't pvp in them. CCP gave you the option to have more than one clone so you can have more than one set of implants, or none at all. Once again, this is something introduced by an old player, for the 'benefit' of new players. I call shenanigans.
Eve is a game of choices and consequences, if you click the "use jump clone" button you better mean it, because you are told in advance that there is a 24hr timer on using it again. If this means that you happen to be in your +5 clone when delve gets attacked by whoever the f--k is out there now, and you don't want to risk losing your training clone, then tough ****, go tomorrow.
I have had a +5 set since I could afford them and that has never stopped me from roaming with my friends whenever I damn well please, and I live primarily in WH systems. I'm smart about it, and stay in a group. I do everything I can to make sure I come out of the fight pod intact. But if I lose it? oh well, time to start saving again.
If new players can't afford uber implants, then the game mechanics must be working because uber implants are designed to be expensive. New players, unless they sell plex, won't have that kind of isk for a while. In my opinion uber implants are intended to be a reward for the older players who have stuck it out and have earned some accelerated training times or better ship stats.
If i missed the point of the thread, please let me know so i can amend my post, it's 3am and I'm very tired.
I think the point is that Learning implants tend to restrict gameplay. One person may only need one clone if all they had were standard hardwirings to worry about, and for those that PvP, they are at an unfair disadvantage when compared with those that do not.
Overall, Learning implants, or the requirement for them, inhibit gameplay and prevent players from taking risks they might otherwise. Either you sacrifice training times to do what you want, or you sacrifice the ability to do so without podding clones that aren't intended for that purpose.
Having 24 h timers on jump clones is just an extension of this. |
J Kunjeh
218
|
Posted - 2012.01.03 00:57:00 -
[323] - Quote
Mars Theran wrote: I think the point is that Learning implants tend to restrict gameplay. One person may only need one clone if all they had were standard hardwirings to worry about, and for those that PvP, they are at an unfair disadvantage when compared with those that do not.
Overall, Learning implants, or the requirement for them, inhibit gameplay and prevent players from taking risks they might otherwise. Either you sacrifice training times to do what you want, or you sacrifice the ability to do so without podding clones that aren't intended for that purpose.
I agree, which is why I think we should also do away with skilling entirely and give everyone Level V skills on everything from day one. Pesky skill training restricts my game play. "The world as we know it came about through an anomaly (anomou)" (The Gospel of Philip, 1-5)-á |
Mars Theran
EVE Rogues EVE Rogues Alliance
30
|
Posted - 2012.01.03 03:50:00 -
[324] - Quote
J Kunjeh wrote:Mars Theran wrote: I think the point is that Learning implants tend to restrict gameplay. One person may only need one clone if all they had were standard hardwirings to worry about, and for those that PvP, they are at an unfair disadvantage when compared with those that do not.
Overall, Learning implants, or the requirement for them, inhibit gameplay and prevent players from taking risks they might otherwise. Either you sacrifice training times to do what you want, or you sacrifice the ability to do so without podding clones that aren't intended for that purpose.
I agree, which is why I think we should also do away with skilling entirely and give everyone Level V skills on everything from day one. Pesky skill training restricts my game play.
Uneccessary sarcasm. Also out of context.
This isn't about training skills. It's about everyone having unrestricted training times and-importantly-alternative options for implants, while being able to play where-ever they may be, without having to worry about clone-jumping to Jita and flying 40 jumps into 0.0 just to get in a battle.
Alternative example, clone-jumping to Jita and 2-1/2 hours later finding out your Corpmates need you in Stain to help them fight off an offensive by a Rival corp, and you in your civies.
Another example: Playing for 6 months as a Pirate in Delve, while running basic hardwirings and having 19 and 20 respectively, in your current primary attributes. With Pod-a-day podding, who's going to fit 300 Million ISK in implants? |
Velin Dhal
Blood Phage Syndicate The Dominion Empire
74
|
Posted - 2012.01.03 08:32:00 -
[325] - Quote
Mars Theran wrote:J Kunjeh wrote:Mars Theran wrote: I think the point is that Learning implants tend to restrict gameplay. One person may only need one clone if all they had were standard hardwirings to worry about, and for those that PvP, they are at an unfair disadvantage when compared with those that do not.
Overall, Learning implants, or the requirement for them, inhibit gameplay and prevent players from taking risks they might otherwise. Either you sacrifice training times to do what you want, or you sacrifice the ability to do so without podding clones that aren't intended for that purpose.
I agree, which is why I think we should also do away with skilling entirely and give everyone Level V skills on everything from day one. Pesky skill training restricts my game play. Uneccessary sarcasm. Also out of context. This isn't about training skills. It's about everyone having unrestricted training times and-importantly-alternative options for implants, while being able to play where-ever they may be, without having to worry about clone-jumping to Jita and flying 40 jumps into 0.0 just to get in a battle. Alternative example, clone-jumping to Jita and 2-1/2 hours later finding out your Corpmates need you in Stain to help them fight off an offensive by a Rival corp, and you in your civies. Another example: Playing for 6 months as a Pirate in Delve, while running basic hardwirings and having 19 and 20 respectively, in your current primary attributes. With Pod-a-day podding, who's going to fit 300 Million ISK in implants?
If your going to 0.0, then be smart about it. Don't go flying around in your most expensive clone when you know your going to possibly get podded. Simple.
This post is straying horribly from what is best for new players to what is best for people in 0.0 who are upset because they choose to be there. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1495
|
Posted - 2012.01.03 09:48:00 -
[326] - Quote
Velin Dhal wrote:If your going to 0.0, then be smart about it. Don't go flying around in your most expensive clone when you know your going to possibly get podded. Simple.
This post is straying horribly from what is best for new players to what is best for people in 0.0 who are upset because they choose to be there.
this risk/reward argument falls apart pretty quick when you realize that 0.0 has become a desert with so many moving to high-sec to pull 100M+ per hour with incursions (something which you /cannot/ do with anoms post-nerf)
so get out of here with that risk/reward argument, you know it's bullshit |
J Kunjeh
233
|
Posted - 2012.01.03 14:19:00 -
[327] - Quote
Mars Theran wrote:J Kunjeh wrote:Mars Theran wrote: I think the point is that Learning implants tend to restrict gameplay. One person may only need one clone if all they had were standard hardwirings to worry about, and for those that PvP, they are at an unfair disadvantage when compared with those that do not.
Overall, Learning implants, or the requirement for them, inhibit gameplay and prevent players from taking risks they might otherwise. Either you sacrifice training times to do what you want, or you sacrifice the ability to do so without podding clones that aren't intended for that purpose.
I agree, which is why I think we should also do away with skilling entirely and give everyone Level V skills on everything from day one. Pesky skill training restricts my game play. Uneccessary sarcasm. Also out of context. This isn't about training skills. It's about everyone having unrestricted training times and-importantly-alternative options for implants, while being able to play where-ever they may be, without having to worry about clone-jumping to Jita and flying 40 jumps into 0.0 just to get in a battle. Alternative example, clone-jumping to Jita and 2-1/2 hours later finding out your Corpmates need you in Stain to help them fight off an offensive by a Rival corp, and you in your civies. Another example: Playing for 6 months as a Pirate in Delve, while running basic hardwirings and having 19 and 20 respectively, in your current primary attributes. With Pod-a-day podding, who's going to fit 300 Million ISK in implants?
So you're the arbiter of what is and is not appropriate sarcasm? Puleeez.
If you don't want to lose your implants, don't use them...simple. Stop whining, there is no need to remove learning implants. They add meaningful choice to the game, which is a GOOD thing.
"The world as we know it came about through an anomaly (anomou)" (The Gospel of Philip, 1-5)-á |
Disdaine
182
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Posted - 2012.01.07 11:43:00 -
[328] - Quote
Eve is a game of consequences, if plugging in +5's limits your playstyle because you're risk averse then don't plug them in.
Risk vs reward.
Do not support. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1502
|
Posted - 2012.01.07 15:37:00 -
[329] - Quote
Disdaine wrote:Eve is a game of consequences, if plugging in +5's limits your playstyle because you're risk averse then don't plug them in.
Risk vs reward.
Do not support.
tell me more about risk aversion, NPC corp forum alt poster |
Tallianna Avenkarde
Beasts of Burden
212
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Posted - 2012.01.08 05:31:00 -
[330] - Quote
Support for the idea of getting more people into
against because as others have pointed out, they are both an isk sink, and something shiny on killmails for people to gloat over.
In fact, i fully support, because I believe the removal of learning implant will justify more people to actually use hardwirings, which would fill the isk sink/podmail gap. And a sudden plunge in the sullen swell. Ten fathoms deep on the road to hell. |
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