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Wizie
Minmatar Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed
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Posted - 2006.10.12 00:10:00 -
[1]
I appreciate the changes already listed by you in the sticky. I am going to make this thread with the hopes of getting one thread with all changes that people think are extremely necessarry (in their opinion). I request people to keep the suggestions within certain limits.. primarily - don't suggest silly things.
From my perspective.
Typhoon - While I would like more about it to be changed. ATLEAST fix the SHIELD/ARMOR discrepancy. A ship with 7 lows and only 4 mids IS NOT a shield tanker. Why on earth does it have more shields and less armor?
Nidhogur - I think the boni to carriers need tweaking, even devs have mentioned this. Could we get some word on it?
Hail ammo - The velocity penalty per gun completely gimps it for short range ships. Most importantly on ships like the Tempest and Sleipnir.
I hope that people will add to this list, but please dont go overboard. ----------------- Sig removed by some noob |
Laythun
Undercover Brothers
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Posted - 2006.10.12 00:16:00 -
[2]
Please look at heavy drones. 'adjust' the damage they do to cruisers. make people HAVE to fit meds or lights to kill cruisers efficiently
Proud Member of the Anti Whine 14 |
Jago X
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Posted - 2006.10.12 00:21:00 -
[3]
Ares definately still needs to be looked into.
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Sonorra Baki
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Posted - 2006.10.12 01:17:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Sonorra Baki on 12/10/2006 01:16:54 /me points to the amarr thread aswell.... |
Angus McLean
Gallente Divinity Trials
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Posted - 2006.10.12 02:01:00 -
[5]
/me points to Sonnora who is pointing to the Caldari thread.
Quote:
Basically we've established, EVE physics > Amarr
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Waagaa Ktlehr
Amarr Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2006.10.12 03:37:00 -
[6]
I would settle for the following Amarr fix: - Swap every skill that I have that's level 5 and that has "Amarr" Or "Laser" in it with the respective "Gallente" or "Hybrid" skill for me, I will train up the Drone skills, thanks. :)
Or they could try to fix it, but I think they think that Amarr is "fine". I guess Tux plays Gallente. :) -
- One ship to jam them all, one ship to damp them. One ship to suck them dry and in the dark void gank them. |
Drazhar Kain
Alpha Production Technologies Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2006.10.12 04:04:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Drazhar Kain on 12/10/2006 04:04:53
Originally by: Wizie .... boni ....
It's BONUSES!!!
HOLY HELL!
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/bonus
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Ephemeron
Crimson Crusaders Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2006.10.12 04:57:00 -
[8]
how about a minor adjustment to warp bubbles so that people who log off in them don't warp?
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Foulis
Minmatar Chosen Path Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.10.12 04:59:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Jago X Ares definately still needs to be looked into.
Above all things, this needs a look, the Ares is ******* useless. ----
Originally by: Nikolai Nuvolari NO WORDS IN THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE ARE SPELLED WITH THE NUMBER "8" IN THEM GODDAMNIT!
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F Apparition
Minmatar Life Extermination New Eden Conglomerate
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Posted - 2006.10.12 05:02:00 -
[10]
I agree with op on the hail thing, it really is self-webbing.
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Deathbarrage
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Posted - 2006.10.12 05:36:00 -
[11]
*points at amarr thread*
and i think hail is fine as it is since you guys miss the cap use increase, and minmatar is already pwning as it is yoˇ'll just get a high dmg t2 ammo with hardly any penalty
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Jim McGregor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.10.12 05:39:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Wizie
Typhoon - While I would like more about it to be changed. ATLEAST fix the SHIELD/ARMOR discrepancy. A ship with 7 lows and only 4 mids IS NOT a shield tanker. Why on earth does it have more shields and less armor?
Just wait for the Maelstrom. I wouldnt be surprised if it gets 8/5/6 and thats a shield tanker too. :) I do have SOME hopes for 8/6/5, but then I bet the Rohk will get 8/7/4. Cant have a minmatar ship with more medium slots than caldari, can we...
--- Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
OrangeAfroMan
Suffoco Noctis Atrocitas
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Posted - 2006.10.12 06:03:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Deathbarrage *points at amarr thread*
and i think hail is fine as it is since you guys miss the cap use increase, and minmatar is already pwning as it is yoˇ'll just get a high dmg t2 ammo with hardly any penalty
lol, this just proves you can't know how anything will affect a ship until you fly it.
Gronsak is Tux's angry alt. |
Cosmo Raata
Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2006.10.12 06:19:00 -
[14]
Soz guys, Tux only responds to gallante problems, so either change the topic or just close the thread. I've timed him, he has responed to gallante threads in less than an hour before.
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Kaylana Syi
Minmatar The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2006.10.12 06:40:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Deathbarrage *points at amarr thread*
and i think hail is fine as it is since you guys miss the cap use increase, and minmatar is already pwning as it is yoˇ'll just get a high dmg t2 ammo with hardly any penalty
I will take a t1 Megapulse w. Multi over a Dual 650mm II using HAIL any day.
Team Minmatar Carriers need Clone Vats
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Johnny Bravo
Gallente Draconis Navitas Aeterna Pure.
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Posted - 2006.10.12 09:43:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Laythun Please look at heavy drones. 'adjust' the damage they do to cruisers. make people HAVE to fit meds or lights to kill cruisers efficiently
Its your personal wrong assumtion what heavy drones shouldnt hit cruisers. Of course, they should. All game logic dictate that. Watch: 1. Fighters are meant to hit battleships. 2. Heavy drones are meant to hit cruisers. 3. Medium drones are meant to hit AF's, destroyers and slow frigates 4. Light drones are for inties and fast frigates.
And all these drones follow do that well. See the system? Its perfect!
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Mr Fringle
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Posted - 2006.10.12 12:32:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Cosmo Raata Soz guys, Tux only responds to gallante problems, so either change the topic or just close the thread. I've timed him, he has responed to gallante threads in less than an hour before.
:D I agree Gallente have too many of the best class ships atm;
Dominix/Megathron (Battleship) Astarte/Eos (Command Ship) I believe Ishtar is the best HAC with jamming overpowered at the moment 1600MM plated Thorax still is as effective as pre-RMR overpowered Thorax
My annoyance with most gallente ships is the ability to deal out good damage and tank at the same time, you may say the mega/astarte need to get into range first, but astarte has accuracy falloff bonus, should hit around 20KM with Null and mega is like 20KM+ with Null.
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Waragha
Art of War Cult of War
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Posted - 2006.10.12 12:42:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Mr Fringle
Originally by: Cosmo Raata Soz guys, Tux only responds to gallante problems, so either change the topic or just close the thread. I've timed him, he has responed to gallante threads in less than an hour before.
:D I agree Gallente have too many of the best class ships atm;
Dominix/Megathron (Battleship) Astarte/Eos (Command Ship) I believe Ishtar is the best HAC with jamming overpowered at the moment 1600MM plated Thorax still is as effective as pre-RMR overpowered Thorax
My annoyance with most gallente ships is the ability to deal out good damage and tank at the same time, you may say the mega/astarte need to get into range first, but astarte has accuracy falloff bonus, should hit around 20KM with Null and mega is like 20KM+ with Null.
I can agree that the other ships are good. But a thorax with 1600mm isnt better than a rupture with a 1600mm.
Originally by: Trepkos
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The only difference between GS and NPC's are that GS respawn quicker.
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Tibullus
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Posted - 2006.10.12 12:47:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Laythun Please look at heavy drones. 'adjust' the damage they do to cruisers. make people HAVE to fit meds or lights to kill cruisers efficiently
As much as it pains me to say it, since my main has just trained Heavy Drone Operation 5 and flies a Dominix, this man is right.
5 Heavies can completely crap all over any cruiser. It's a complete imbalance. Perhaps this could be fixed with a nerf to the tracking of heavy drones, making it very difficult for them to hit cruisers.
As it stands, cruiser gangs should be able to stand up to heavy drones. |
Tibullus
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Posted - 2006.10.12 12:52:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Johnny Bravo
Originally by: Laythun Please look at heavy drones. 'adjust' the damage they do to cruisers. make people HAVE to fit meds or lights to kill cruisers efficiently
Its your personal wrong assumtion what heavy drones shouldnt hit cruisers. Of course, they should. All game logic dictate that. Watch: 1. Fighters are meant to hit battleships. 2. Heavy drones are meant to hit cruisers. 3. Medium drones are meant to hit AF's, destroyers and slow frigates 4. Light drones are for inties and fast frigates.
And all these drones follow do that well. See the system? Its perfect!
What you've done is made the system seem perfect. But it just isn't. Cruisers don't have a chance in hell of standing up to five heavy drones, regardless of how much jamming they use. The only thing they can use to defend themselves using EW is sensor dampeners I believe. Apart from that, drones are in effect invulnerable to e-war operating with a large amount of autonomy from their parent ship (unless the parent ship forgets to pop his drones before he is jammed).
This cripples cruiser gang combat against battleships, and also makes the Ishtar and the Command ships especially overpowered.
As a gallente-specced pilot I hope you can appreciate that writing this has been very painful for me. |
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Sandra Tseng
THE MISPHIT'S
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Posted - 2006.10.12 12:57:00 -
[21]
They are.Heavy drones are slow and easy to hit. Did you ever concider to tank them while blowing them out of the sky?
Get into an interceptor if you want to avoid getting hit.Cruisers are for fighting and fighting back! ;] Killed my sig AGAIN! :p http://www.ninc.org/krubarax/images/2d/verydisco.jpg |
Jim McGregor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.10.12 13:01:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Jim McGregor on 12/10/2006 13:02:11
Originally by: Tibullus
Originally by: Laythun Please look at heavy drones. 'adjust' the damage they do to cruisers. make people HAVE to fit meds or lights to kill cruisers efficiently
As much as it pains me to say it, since my main has just trained Heavy Drone Operation 5 and flies a Dominix, this man is right.
5 Heavies can completely crap all over any cruiser. It's a complete imbalance. Perhaps this could be fixed with a nerf to the tracking of heavy drones, making it very difficult for them to hit cruisers.
As it stands, cruiser gangs should be able to stand up to heavy drones.
Totally agree. Its funny how precisions got nerfed, but heavy drones still hit cruisers with no problems. I remember saying many times that they shouldnt nerf precision cruise missiles if they arent going to do anything about drones being just as good.
Of course no one listened, but I tried.
--- Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Sandra Tseng
THE MISPHIT'S
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Posted - 2006.10.12 13:04:00 -
[23]
A single T1 cruiser *SHOULD* not be able to stand up to 5 Heavy Drones.
What ships can use 5 Heavy Drones? That is right - nothing smaller than a Battleship!
And what logic is there in that? My t1 cruiser should be able to stand up to a Battleship!
You will get wtfpwnd in any T1 cruiser vs a Battelship, whether they use hybrids, missiles, lasers, projectiles or drones... or something is wrong ;]
Learn to kill the drones instead - more fun ;]
Killed my sig AGAIN! :p http://www.ninc.org/krubarax/images/2d/verydisco.jpg |
Sandra Tseng
THE MISPHIT'S
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Posted - 2006.10.12 13:06:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Totally agree. Its funny how precisions got nerfed, but heavy drones still hit cruisers with no problems. I remember saying many times that they shouldnt nerf precision cruise missiles if they arent going to do anything about drones being just as good.
Of course no one listened, but I tried.
Are you saying that Heavy Drones travel as fast to their target and do instant damage as Cruise Missiles do? Are you saying that Cruise missiles can be targetted and destroyed by your guns or your own set of lighter drones? Are you saying that a lost drone is as easy to replace as it is to load next cruisemissile into the launcher?
no go here ;]
_ Killed my sig AGAIN! :p http://www.ninc.org/krubarax/images/2d/verydisco.jpg |
Ithildin
Gallente The Corporation
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Posted - 2006.10.12 13:06:00 -
[25]
Hmm... I agree and I don't agree
Drones: The problem with drones is not their tracking or their damage. They are mobile turret platforms, meaning they follow their targets and try to orbit them. Since the drones follow targets, transversal velocity will be very low making the drones hit easily.
Thorax: If you think the current incarnation of the Thorax is as effective as the old version you are sadly misstaken. The current thorax outputs only about 60% of the damage it once did.
Hail: Meh. T2 ammo need a major overhaul in general.
Ishtar and Dominix: Their current power is nearly completely founded in their ECM ability. Take this away, and try to fit these ships without resorting to nosferatu and ECM and you'll find they are sorely lacking in powergrid.
Drazhar Kain: Grow up. You are not alone in this world and your knowledge of the english languages is clearly not what it should be. Both bonuses and boni are acceptable forms of the plural in an international environment. Your complaint would only have foundation if it was in the subtext of american english only (where the latin origin of many words have been removed).
Ares: The Ares, and to be honest all Roden Shipyards (exception being Enyo) ships, have needed a through rework for more than two years now.
Amarr thred: This is a very bad reference point. It's too large, and very inflamed. Be more specifc.
Megathron: It is rather ignorant to claim the Megathron is the best battleship just like that. There are tweakings that need be done in the battleship class, which will only be highlighted with the tier 3's, but the Megathron is best only situationally.
Drones as precision missiles: The major difference between drones and missiles is that using drones requires commitment, wheras missiles can be left in a hurry. Essentially, comparing drones to missiles is flawed beyond reason, and to withhold a necessary fix to something else because drones aren't as they should be is undefendable. Additionally, drones are a common secondary weapon for more than 50% of the ships in game, 100% of the battleships. There are only 3 T1 ship hulls where drones are primary weapon, and 2 ships that are capable of using heavy drones with bonus aplied. - Three years old |
Jim McGregor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.10.12 13:12:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Sandra Tseng
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Totally agree. Its funny how precisions got nerfed, but heavy drones still hit cruisers with no problems. I remember saying many times that they shouldnt nerf precision cruise missiles if they arent going to do anything about drones being just as good.
Of course no one listened, but I tried.
Are you saying that Heavy Drones travel as fast to their target and do instant damage as Cruise Missiles do? Are you saying that Cruise missiles can be targetted and destroyed by your guns or your own set of lighter drones? Are you saying that a lost drone is as easy to replace as it is to load next cruisemissile into the launcher?
no go here ;]
_
I agree in part, but I dont feel its right that a dominix heavy drones should just waste away every cruiser in sight. Its like if torpedoes hit for enough damage to cruisers to kill them quickly. Well, some of them do....
--- Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Fogy
Caldari Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed
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Posted - 2006.10.12 13:13:00 -
[27]
Typhoon! nice fix, but not nice enough.. Shield / armor hp needs to bee looked at.. more shield on a shipp with 3 midds 7 lov slotts.. O_o
And it needs more PG.. badly.. close range shipp = speed = MWD close range shipp = close range weapons = torp launchers + AC's
right now you cant fitt anything else than the LOVEST tire weapon, if you want to go for a mwd, and injector.. also it is in my head a need for 1 of each dmg mod to compensate for the splitt weapon systems and bonuses..
more pg.. atleest enough to fitt cruise and dual 650mm's or torp launchers and dual 425mm's
Cheers! Fogy "From my rotting boddy flowers shall grow and I am in them, and that is eternity"
New Direction New Area New Victims |
Tibullus
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Posted - 2006.10.12 13:32:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Tibullus on 12/10/2006 13:33:00 EDIT 1: My spelling mistakes ftl
Originally by: Sandra Tseng A single T1 cruiser *SHOULD* not be able to stand up to 5 Heavy Drones.
What ships can use 5 Heavy Drones? That is right - nothing smaller than a Battleship!
And what logic is there in that? My t1 cruiser should be able to stand up to a Battleship!
You will get wtfpwnd in any T1 cruiser vs a Battelship, whether they use hybrids, missiles, lasers, projectiles or drones... or something is wrong ;]
Learn to kill the drones instead - more fun ;]
People not completely reading and comprehending my posts ftl.
Although to be fair I could have been more specific.
No cruiser should be able to kill a battleship 1v1. But as it stands five heavy drones are so powerful against cruisers that a well-tanked Dominix could be able to go head-to-head against perhaps three or four cruisers no problem. Using E-War against a drone user is almost ineffective, speed won't help you much unless you are flying a vagabond, destroying the heavies can take anywhere between two to three times longer depending on his drone durability skill.
You see the problem? Tracking disruptors work a treat against some Minmatar and Amarr ships, ECM works well against Caldari and Minmatar. But drones? Drones are a much tougher nut to *****, to such an extent that the only hope any amount of cruisers could have against a dominix is to gank it. Tactically combatting heavy drones when flying a smaller ship is a nightmare, and this should be fixed, since at the moment five heavies are almost effectively an I-win button against anything smaller than a battlecruiser.
And you made a mistake in your post. The Eos and the Ishtar can also fly a decent amount of heavy drones.
Your "logical" argument was not present in my previous posts, you merely extrapolated it. |
Deathbarrage
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Posted - 2006.10.12 13:38:00 -
[29]
Originally by: OrangeAfroMan
Originally by: Deathbarrage *points at amarr thread*
and i think hail is fine as it is since you guys miss the cap use increase, and minmatar is already pwning as it is yoˇ'll just get a high dmg t2 ammo with hardly any penalty
lol, this just proves you can't know how anything will affect a ship until you fly it.
i fly minmatar dude and i also fly amarr and gallente and i know hail will be overpowered if you remove the velocity penalty
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Sandra Tseng
THE MISPHIT'S
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Posted - 2006.10.12 13:45:00 -
[30]
A gang of cruisers can kill Heavy drones pretty easily. Send a swarm of Medium or light drones to kill his heavies Light and heavy missiles makes short work of them. And I think a Thorax could kill a webbed Ogre with two volleys of Heavy Blaster violence.
If you want to add modules to counter sertain weapons, Tracking disruptors and such - then I think a reasonable argument would be: smartbomb them
Although I will not touch smartbombs. I rather just web them and blast them.
_ Killed my sig AGAIN! :p http://www.ninc.org/krubarax/images/2d/verydisco.jpg |
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