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Ithildin
Gallente The Corporation
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Posted - 2006.10.11 21:19:00 -
[1]
What this thread is A plaything thread about how EVE could have been purely ships-wise, if Ithildin could've had a hand in it all. Like it or not, all comments are welcome as long as they are more than a few words. It's just a scetch anyways. I've only got so many words. Think of it as an idea pack.
What this thread is NOT Something serious that I want the devs to implement. Simply put, it's more than three years too late. But if the devs enjoy reading it, I'd be overjoyed.
Damage types Currently, we've got a problem. 35% of the damage being done in EVE is TH, 35% is kinetic, 15% is explosive, 15% is EMP. Or, in other words, a damned lot of two types and not enough of the other two types. Below are som "fixes" to the damage type problem. Also, I believe that hardening tanking needs to be toned down so that the "holes" persist more and can be tactically exploited.
Amarr Amarr are armour tankers with lots of lasers. Did I say they were armour tankers? Essentially, Amarr ships are strong, stout, and stoic. If it can't be fixed with a sledgehammer, it ain't good engineering! Amarr form the basis for the southern side. Prefered slot: Low Primary damage: EMP Secondary damage: TH
Caldari Caldari are technological freaks. They like things that glow (although they don't openly admit it), and they just love tinkering. Their stuff are sort of fragile, which is why it's such a good thing Caldari are experts on containment fields. Prefered slot: Mid Primary damage: EXP. Secondary damage: EMP.
Gallente. Gallente and Caldari were once friends, believe it or not, and this is why they share a bit more. In fact, Gallente are rather technological, themselves, although not as much as the Caldari. That's why they put so much effort into disrupting Caldari's high-tech stuff when Caldari broke away from them. Prefered slot: Balanced (mids) Primary damage: TH Secondary damage: KN
Minmatar When Amarr decided the Jovians tried to usurp God's place, they attacked the Jovians. And suffered massive defeat. Not only that, but a lot of slaves rebelled, and with the aid of the Gallente Federation created the Minmatar Republic. The Minmatar engineering consist of the aid given by Gallente, but mainly by what was stolen or reverse-engineered from Amarr - not that it was much of a feat since Minmatar were the ones building the ships in the first place. Prefered slots: balanced (lows) Primary: KN Secondary: EXP
Missiles Whoever said all missiles should be equal clearly didn't know that a year from then missiles'd be a main weapon system. Now that it's clear they are, let's embrace it fully and integrate it into the Caldari weapon system. EXP: 1.6x damage, 100% speed EMP: 1.45x damage, 120% speed KN: 1.3x damage, 140% speed TH: 1.1x damage, 160% speed Base damage: taken down a notch or two ;)
Railguns and blasters While it would be ideal to separate them fully into two groups, it just doesn't work that well. I believe that modulating damage is necessary, but how? Blasters only use most damaging ammo since there is no benefit in longer range, railguns use the full spectrum. By giving hybrid ammo a tracking penalty the stronger they get, and then giving blasters a very good base tracking, I believe that the longer ranged ammo can be modulated progressively into EXP as main damage. The long range ammos would be compressed gasses, by the way.
Drones as ammo Add another slot type, for drones. To have a huge drone bay and use them as replacements, etc, I find to be rather cumbersome, not to mention hard to balance properly. Drone bays take up fitting and a drone slot, these bays can be loaded from cargo if the controlled drone is destroyed. Activating the slot launches and tell drones to engage, deactivating the slot tells drones to return to dronebay. Also, this way, different sizes of bays can lead to new interesting ships. - Three years old |
Murukan
Minmatar The Priory Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2006.10.11 21:24:00 -
[2]
hmm interesting stuff. Only main problem is the caldari/gallente damages because they use the same weapon system hybrids so they'll end up with the same dmg types.
In rust we trust!!! |
Ronin Reborn
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Posted - 2006.10.11 21:28:00 -
[3]
I do know if you did this for roleplaying purposes, but the gallente prefering mids and minnies prefering lows seems a bit backwards to me. On a plus side, different charateristics of missles and drone bays as a fitting slot seems interesting.
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Tasty Burger
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Posted - 2006.10.11 21:30:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Tasty Burger on 11/10/2006 21:31:03 I think those changes are a bit too far-reaching to even be considered.
The only thing I agree with, and always have actually, is making all missiles different.
I thought that it should be like this:
kinetic - em - thermal - explosive
longest range to short, lowest damage to highest.
Would go along with caldari preferring long range.
edit: the drone thing... very interesting.
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Ithildin
Gallente The Corporation
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Posted - 2006.10.11 21:35:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Murukan hmm interesting stuff. Only main problem is the caldari/gallente damages because they use the same weapon system hybrids so they'll end up with the same dmg types.
That's one of the thoughts. They don't use the same damage system - Caldari ought to favour missiles more, and when using railguns the Thorium or longer ammo would be doing the Caldari damage anyway.
Also, I was out of characters (and it slipped my mind), but essentially I believe blasters and railguns ought to be modulated so that railguns are more easily fitted on Caldari ships and blasters on Gallente ships. - Three years old |
Ithildin
Gallente The Corporation
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Posted - 2006.10.11 21:37:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Tasty Burger Edited by: Tasty Burger on 11/10/2006 21:31:03 I think those changes are a bit too far-reaching to even be considered.
Well, that's the thing. It's just a bunch of ideas and concepts. Playthings.
Hells, I'd be devastated if they shifted Gallente to shield tanking, do you have any idea how my shield skills are!? I just think that shield tanking Gallente seems more appropriate according to the backstory. - Three years old |
Snikkt
Gallente Time Cube Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.10.11 21:47:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Ithildin
Originally by: Tasty Burger Edited by: Tasty Burger on 11/10/2006 21:31:03 I just think that shield tanking Gallente seems more appropriate according to the backstory.
I owe you several cookies. -------------------
If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.
My opinions are not my corporations.
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Murukan
Minmatar The Priory Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2006.10.11 21:50:00 -
[8]
I see what ith is saying with the balanced low slots (means you'll have more mids than amarr so in the likelyhood of 4-5 on bships like it is now)
One thing though is i would like to see more of a focus on speed for minmatar ships (as in a really drastic increase) and lower their hitpoints. So they will be really hard to hit when they are in orbit but you'll only need a handfull of hits to sink them.
In rust we trust!!! |
Karash Amerius
Amarr O.E.C
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Posted - 2006.10.11 22:20:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Karash Amerius on 11/10/2006 22:24:42 If I were a CCP GOD...I would stick to the basics of each race:
Amarr Meant to be heavy armor tankers with lasers. Traits below can be singled or combined per ship:
- Every ship class should have a ship that gets 5% to 10% armor per level.
- Every ship class should have a ship that gets 5% armor resistances per level.
- Every ship class should have a ship that gets a ROF and Damage bonus for lasers per level.
- Every ship class should have a ship that gets a NOS bonus per level.
- Every ship class should have a ship that gets a Weapon Disruption bonus per level.
Minmatar Meant to be fast ships with lots of flexiblity. Traits below can be singled or combined per ship:
- Every ship class should have a ship that gets 5% to 10% velocity per level.
- Every ship class should have a ship that gets 5% signature radius reduction per level.
- Every ship class should have a ship that gets a ROF and Damage bonus for projectiles per level.
- Every ship class should have a ship that gets a Webifier range bonus per level.
- Every ship class should have a ship that gets a Target Painter bonus per level.
Caldari Meant to be technologically superior (electronics) and focus on Missiles. Traits below can be singled or combined per ship:
- Every ship class should have a ship that gets 5% to 10% shield capacity bonus.
- Every ship class should have a ship that gets 5% shield resistance bonus per level.
- Every ship class should have a ship that gets a ROF and Damage bonus for missiles per level.
- Every ship class should have a ship that gets a ECM range bonus per level.
- Every ship class should have a ship that gets a ECCM(sensor) strength bonus per level.
Gallente Meant to be tough armor tankers with drone superiority and hybrid focus. Traits below can be singled or combined per ship:
- Every ship class should have a ship that gets 5% drone damage and ROF bonus per level.
- Every ship class should have a ship that gets 5% armor resistance bonus per level.
- Every ship class should have a ship that gets a ROF and Damage bonus for Hybrids per level.
- Every ship class should have a ship that gets a Sensor Dampner range and effectiveness bonus per level.
- Every ship class should have a ship that gets a armor repair effectiveness bonus per level.
Please NOTE, that other ship bonuses and design differences would also be across all races...but in general, I believe that CCP needs to focus on the above THEMES for each race's fleet options.
Merc Blog |
Audri Fisher
Caldari The Keep THE R0CK
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Posted - 2006.10.11 22:43:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Karash Amerius Edited by: Karash Amerius on 11/10/2006 22:24:42 If I were a CCP GOD...I would stick to the basics of each race:
Amarr Meant to be heavy armor tankers with lasers. Traits below can be singled or combined per ship:
- Every ship class should have a ship that gets 5% to 10% armor per level.
- Every ship class should have a ship that gets 5% armor resistances per level.
- Every ship class should have a ship that gets a ROF and Damage bonus for lasers per level.
- Every ship class should have a ship that gets a NOS bonus per level.
- Every ship class should have a ship that gets a Weapon Disruption bonus per level.
Minmatar Meant to be fast ships with lots of flexiblity. Traits below can be singled or combined per ship:
- Every ship class should have a ship that gets 5% to 10% velocity per level.
- Every ship class should have a ship that gets 5% signature radius reduction per level.
- Every ship class should have a ship that gets a ROF and Damage bonus for projectiles per level.
- Every ship class should have a ship that gets a Webifier range bonus per level.
- Every ship class should have a ship that gets a Target Painter bonus per level.
Caldari Meant to be technologically superior (electronics) and focus on Missiles. Traits below can be singled or combined per ship:
- Every ship class should have a ship that gets 5% to 10% shield capacity bonus.
- Every ship class should have a ship that gets 5% shield resistance bonus per level.
- Every ship class should have a ship that gets a ROF and Damage bonus for missiles per level.
- Every ship class should have a ship that gets a ECM range bonus per level.
- Every ship class should have a ship that gets a ECCM(sensor) strength bonus per level.
Gallente Meant to be tough armor tankers with drone superiority and hybrid focus. Traits below can be singled or combined per ship:
- Every ship class should have a ship that gets 5% drone damage and ROF bonus per level.
- Every ship class should have a ship that gets 5% armor resistance bonus per level.
- Every ship class should have a ship that gets a ROF and Damage bonus for Hybrids per level.
- Every ship class should have a ship that gets a Sensor Dampner range and effectiveness bonus per level.
- Every ship class should have a ship that gets a armor repair effectiveness bonus per level.
Please NOTE, that other ship bonuses and design differences would also be across all races...but in general, I believe that CCP needs to focus on the above THEMES for each race's fleet options.
Just say NO to missles for Caldari. Guns > missles
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Kaathar Rielspar
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.10.11 23:18:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Karash Amerius Edited by: Karash Amerius on 11/10/2006 22:24:42 If I were a CCP GOD...I would stick to the basics of each race:
Amarr Meant to be heavy armor tankers with lasers. Traits below can be singled or combined per ship:
- Every ship class should have a ship that gets 5% to 10% armor per level.
- Every ship class should have a ship that gets 5% armor resistances per level.
- Every ship class should have a ship that gets a ROF and Damage bonus for lasers per level.
- Every ship class should have a ship that gets a NOS bonus per level.
- Every ship class should have a ship that gets a Weapon Disruption bonus per level.
Minmatar Meant to be fast ships with lots of flexiblity. Traits below can be singled or combined per ship:
- Every ship class should have a ship that gets 5% to 10% velocity per level.
- Every ship class should have a ship that gets 5% signature radius reduction per level.
- Every ship class should have a ship that gets a ROF and Damage bonus for projectiles per level.
- Every ship class should have a ship that gets a Webifier range bonus per level.
- Every ship class should have a ship that gets a Target Painter bonus per level.
Caldari Meant to be technologically superior (electronics) and focus on Missiles. Traits below can be singled or combined per ship:
- Every ship class should have a ship that gets 5% to 10% shield capacity bonus.
- Every ship class should have a ship that gets 5% shield resistance bonus per level.
- Every ship class should have a ship that gets a ROF and Damage bonus for missiles per level.
- Every ship class should have a ship that gets a ECM range bonus per level.
- Every ship class should have a ship that gets a ECCM(sensor) strength bonus per level.
Gallente Meant to be tough armor tankers with drone superiority and hybrid focus. Traits below can be singled or combined per ship:
- Every ship class should have a ship that gets 5% drone damage and ROF bonus per level.
- Every ship class should have a ship that gets 5% armor resistance bonus per level.
- Every ship class should have a ship that gets a ROF and Damage bonus for Hybrids per level.
- Every ship class should have a ship that gets a Sensor Dampner range and effectiveness bonus per level.
- Every ship class should have a ship that gets a armor repair effectiveness bonus per level.
Please NOTE, that other ship bonuses and design differences would also be across all races...but in general, I believe that CCP needs to focus on the above THEMES for each race's fleet options.
its along the right lines anyway, since minmatar are getting the shaft with no ship with resistance bonus :p
eve hard mode ftw
____________________
Originally by: Jerick Ludhowe
Originally by: Eximius Josari If BS Sized HACs would be overpowered, what are HACs?
Overpriced Nos victims.
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Karash Amerius
Amarr O.E.C
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Posted - 2006.10.11 23:57:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Audri Fisher
Just say NO to missles for Caldari. Guns > missles
As I stated in my closing line...I am not saying the races should not get other bonus perks on ships...rather look at my list as the "backbone" of the racial fleet.
Merc Blog |
Karash Amerius
Amarr O.E.C
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Posted - 2006.10.12 00:03:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Kaathar Rielspar
its along the right lines anyway, since minmatar are getting the shaft with no ship with resistance bonus :p
eve hard mode ftw
When Minmatar have ships that start in the 90% range on some categories, and has EM resistance of 70% in all cruisers and battleships (note thats the highest starting resistance for any racial ships in these classes)...I think the addition of extra speed adds signifigantly to the defensive package of Minmatar ships. Coupled with no capacitor using weapons and multiple damage types...you have a great racial profile.
Merc Blog |
Kalixa Hihro
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Posted - 2006.10.12 00:21:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Murukan hmm interesting stuff. Only main problem is the caldari/gallente damages because they use the same weapon system hybrids so they'll end up with the same dmg types.
One way for this to work would be introduce ammo types for all damage types for hybrid and beam users. This would be hard to explain in game mechanics though. Explosive beams?
The other option would be to merge all the gun types and call it "turret weapons" instead of hybrid beam or projectile. If you get "Large turret 5" you can then do specializations on projectile types or whatever you want. That would give turret pilots a viable option to do any damage type and specialize in whatever combination of weapons works.
Then merge the ship turret bonuses into "turret" so people get a bonus to any of the types of turrets they can fit. Keep the weapons exactly as they are.
For people that trained hybrid and projectile already, give them their merged skillpoints back to apply to another skill. It's not like its a lot of SP, but sizeable if you had to learn all of them up to large.
-Kal /*----------------------------------------------------------------------------------*/ My opinion in no way represents that of my corp or anyone I am associated with, and is probably entirely wrong. |
OrangeAfroMan
Suffoco Noctis Atrocitas
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Posted - 2006.10.12 06:16:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Ithildin OP
I have to say, I really like your ideas presented here, and how you've represented them. My only qualm is that I would rather EXP damage remain more exclusive to Minmatar... It's all we've got =p
Good post bro.
Gronsak is Tux's angry alt. |
Ithildin
Gallente The Corporation
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Posted - 2006.10.12 10:36:00 -
[16]
Originally by: OrangeAfroMan
Originally by: Ithildin OP
I have to say, I really like your ideas presented here, and how you've represented them. My only qualm is that I would rather EXP damage remain more exclusive to Minmatar... It's all we've got =p
Good post bro.
The thought is to equalize and separate the damage types, so that each race has a more defined damage type the way only Gallente and Amarr have now. A problem with this is that there's one damage type too much (kinetic and thermal are more or less the same). Additionally, when the game has come to a point of balance, we won't have explosive being the best damage as it is now. We won't have EM being the worst damage. A specific problem for achieving this state, however, is that electronic and propulsion disruption modules are located in mid slots where shield tanks go - essentially making shield tanks less attractive. A fix for this problem might be to relocate these modules to high slots, which would have an... interesting effect to say the least. As a direct effect of EWar modules being moved BACK to high slots would be that the counter modules (such as ECCM) would have to be tuned down and some modules (such as WCS) might even have to be removed completely.
Hence, I present to you.
Electronics The following modules are now a high-powered/layered item: * Electronic counter measures * Tracking disruption * Sensor Dampening * Target Painting * Webifiers * Warp disruptors * Warp Core Stabilizer The following modules will be reduced in strength: * Electronic Counter Counter Measures (efficiency halved) The following bonuses will be increased in power: * Sensor Dampening efficiency * Tracking disruptor efficiency Changes: * Sensor Dampener falloff and optimal range interchanged * Tracking Enhancers increases turret tracking only and with greatly increased effect * Tracking Computers renamed to Targeting Computer and increases optimal range only * Sensor Boosters increases lock range only * Signal Amplifier increases signature resolution only and with greatly increased effect - Three years old |
Riho
Mercenary Forces
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Posted - 2006.10.12 11:38:00 -
[17]
gallente perfer mids slots 0o.... roflmao :P
yes its mixed but preferred is low
well, that is how i see my ships enyway :D
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Ithildin
Gallente The Corporation
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Posted - 2006.10.12 11:40:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Riho gallente perfer mids slots 0o.... roflmao :P
yes its mixed but preferred is low
well, that is how i see my ships enyway :D
No. That's not the point. This is redesigning EVE more or less in it's foundations. Read the top disclaimers first. - Three years old |
Sandra Tseng
THE MISPHIT'S
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Posted - 2006.10.12 12:34:00 -
[19]
Do you ever get to play the game or do you only hang out in forums?
_ Killed my sig AGAIN! :p http://www.ninc.org/krubarax/images/2d/verydisco.jpg |
Ithildin
Gallente The Corporation
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Posted - 2006.10.12 12:39:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Sandra Tseng Do you ever get to play the game or do you only hang out in forums?
_
Both at the same time. Doesn't matter if I PvP or PvE, I always have forums open. - Three years old |
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Karash Amerius
Amarr O.E.C
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Posted - 2006.10.12 15:26:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Kalixa Hihro
Originally by: Murukan hmm interesting stuff. Only main problem is the caldari/gallente damages because they use the same weapon system hybrids so they'll end up with the same dmg types.
One way for this to work would be introduce ammo types for all damage types for hybrid and beam users. This would be hard to explain in game mechanics though. Explosive beams?
The other option would be to merge all the gun types and call it "turret weapons" instead of hybrid beam or projectile. If you get "Large turret 5" you can then do specializations on projectile types or whatever you want. That would give turret pilots a viable option to do any damage type and specialize in whatever combination of weapons works.
Then merge the ship turret bonuses into "turret" so people get a bonus to any of the types of turrets they can fit. Keep the weapons exactly as they are.
For people that trained hybrid and projectile already, give them their merged skillpoints back to apply to another skill. It's not like its a lot of SP, but sizeable if you had to learn all of them up to large.
-Kal
Personally, I am against giving all races easy access to multiple damage types. Lasers and Hybrids I think should stay the same as far as damage types go. The game just needs to be balanced around that some. Minmatar having to load ammo for their combat situation is sometimes a disadvantage in a fast moving battle...lasers are pretty simple to use in comparison. We want things in Eve to be unique and varied...not have everyone running around with the exact same modules equipped. Personally I think we are close to perfection...its just the EAN modules are really killing the offensive power for a lot of gunships.
Merc Blog |
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