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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Marcus Aurelijus
Eagle's Warrior's Eyrie Alliance
0
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Posted - 2011.12.02 06:48:00 -
[61] - Quote
dribble |
Ris Dnalor
Fleet of Doom Ushra'Khan
85
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Posted - 2011.12.02 07:00:00 -
[62] - Quote
/emote grins @ OP
to poster directly above
Quote:dribble noun Definition of DRIBBLE 1: a tiny or insignificant bit or quantity 2: a small trickling stream or flow 3: an act, instance, or manner of dribbling a ball or puck
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Jinli mei
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
62
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Posted - 2011.12.02 07:07:00 -
[63] - Quote
I see you bolded the important parts |
Mors Sanctitatis
Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS
24
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Posted - 2011.12.02 07:29:00 -
[64] - Quote
Excellent job James. Very nice. |
Jen Nova
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2011.12.02 07:34:00 -
[65] - Quote
Read the whole thing and I must say, I wholeheartedly agree with the OP! |
McRoll
Heatseekers
17
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Posted - 2011.12.02 08:03:00 -
[66] - Quote
1) I am amazed and shocked because of the amount of people who are unable to read 7k words, as they themselves claim. Are there so many people who cannot do that? Humanity is doomed, I tell you
2) A post of highest quality, enjoyed reading. Also agree on most parts.
3) There seriously needs to be a complete mining redesign. It needs to be more interactive and it should involve some skill and/or knowledge in order to get the most isk out of it. That way people would actually play the game while mining and not just wait until the cycle completes. If CCP would do that, they can consider revamping missions as well (like adding Sleeper AI at least)
(I am thinking about a mechanics similar to PI for example, where you have to scan the asteroid and manually aim the lasers at the points with the highest ore concentration, or something like that. I am sure CCP can come up with something, they just need to want to) |
Aabis Jeasu
Entropy Tech. Shadow of xXDEATHXx
2
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Posted - 2011.12.02 08:05:00 -
[67] - Quote
Good read, but there is an external force giving life support to this cancer and you cant do anything about it but pis and moan. |
Minister of Death
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
17
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Posted - 2011.12.02 08:08:00 -
[68] - Quote
Reading a thread like this makes me want to quit Eve.
The reason it does so is because of the intense idiocy and inanity in most of the replies. If this many stupid people play this game, and I play this game, then I am playing a game with a lot of stupendously stupid people, and that isn't attractive to me.
Sometimes these forums are a real turnoff to the game itself :( It is literally and completely impossible for me to fathom some of the raw stupidity I read on Eve Online forums. I wish I was joking. |
Arcathra
Technodyne Ltd.
17
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Posted - 2011.12.02 08:12:00 -
[69] - Quote
Dear James 315
Your statement gives a good explanation of how the gankers feel about miners in general, but you make a lot of assumptions that you can't back up as justifications for your actions. Also you explanation is made to feel better about what you are doing. Because if everything would be that logical, you wouldn't need to justify your actions.
No matter how much you write or what "logical conclusions" you draw, it's just your oppinion on that matter. And you show an awful lot of prejudices that are just that.
You should realise that the bots are as much a problem for us miners than they are for the rest of the game. Even more so for us, because they reduce our ISK income. I would be as happy as you if they ban all the botters in the end. We are guilty because we would bot mine when it would be legal? You see the logical flaw in your argumentation? If they ever legalize botting, of course a lot of people (including nullsec players with highsec mining alts) would use them. Why? Because it would be allowed and a normal game mechanic. Believe it or not, most miners I know wouldn't appreciate it, because it would destroy the gameplay we like. My guess is, that mostly the real akf miners would have fun with that. Where fun might not be the correct word... You are generalizing too much.
Piling a lot of ISK just for the sake of it is unfortunately something, a lot of miners seem to do. But by far not everyone. I'm using my ISK to buy other ships than mining ships, occasionaly I even use them in *gasp* PvP! Also many afk miners are alts of nullsec oder lowsec players. They use the ISK to fund their main characters style of play. I think most people who mine in highsec actually put a lot of their ISK back into the market. As others already said, mission running is a lot bigger problem with this. In the end, miners generate the resources to build the ships that others (or even themselve) destroy in PvP. To say it as clear as possible: mining (no matter where) is a perfectly legal, viable and needed profession. Just because they mine the way the game mechanics allow them to, they are not "bad" people per se.
Miners have never taken a single action to protect themselves? How could they? Mining barges and exhumers aren't exactly ships someone can defend himself with. Use battleships to mine? It's a bad option, because the revenue is much lower with them and to get a good yield you have to disregard your tanking ability. Mining in highsec is already not that profitable, you know. The problem is that there is no real good way to protect against suicide gankers. The machanics work in your favor, not in the favor of the miners. Until you attack, there is nothing a miner can do against a ganker other than flee, if he can. And when the ganker opens fire, it's already too late in most cases. We could discuss for hours who the coward is in the end. And don't forget too look what the miner looses and what the ganker looses. It can be frustrating to loose a ship that costs nearly 200 million to a handful of destroyers. It's not frustrating that a ship like this can be destroyed, but it shouldn't be that easy as it is now.
I'm not asking for harsher treatment for gankers and in general I'm okay with ganking. I also think that a lot of miners are whining and raging a bit too much and don't really help to make the situation better. My guess is, that gankers don't do it because they actually hate the highsec miners. They do it because of the thrills and because of the whining and raging afterwards. We germans have a good word to discribe that, you use it even in the english language: schadenfreude. Why I think that is the case? Because if I would decide to gank I would do it exactly because of that. Everything else would just be a justification to make me feel better and not have to pity my victim.
Quote:Can anyone give me one good reason why I should not kill the highsec miners? Maybe because they don't have done anything to you personaly? Because they are in general no threat to you? The question I would like to ask: What do you actually gain by killing them, when factoring out the "thrill" of it? Why bother with people you don't want to play with? You could just ignore them.
You know, there goes a saying: Live and let live. EVE is a big sandbox. Highsec miners play the game how they like it. If they like to hoard a lot of ISK and not doing something else with it, what bothers you so much about that? If you live in nullsec, what interest do you have in the matters of highsec? Why can't you respect the way other people have fun in the game? Even so I don't like gankers I can respect their style of play.
I am against afk miners and botters as much as you, but suicide ganking isn't the way to solve that problem. |
Berendas
Clandestine Vector THE SPACE P0LICE
21
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Posted - 2011.12.02 08:22:00 -
[70] - Quote
My hat is off to OP, read the whole thing and enjoyed every word. It was very well written, and in every way deserving of a 10/10.
Also, you are a ******* psychopath in a very beautiful and fun to read about way. |
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Jinli mei
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
62
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Posted - 2011.12.02 08:24:00 -
[71] - Quote
McRoll wrote:1) I am amazed and shocked because of the amount of people who are unable to read 7k words, as they themselves claim. Are there so many people who cannot do that? Humanity is doomed, I tell you
some nobody somewhere said that brevity is the soul of wit, if you want me to read a 7k post it needs to actually say something that requires 7k. There's mathematical research papers out there that aren't as long and have substantially more content.
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Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1111
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Posted - 2011.12.02 08:27:00 -
[72] - Quote
ahahaha this thread |
Basileus Volkan
Merch Industrial Goonswarm Federation
71
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Posted - 2011.12.02 08:33:00 -
[73] - Quote
I admire the effort but there are a lot of fallacies in there, bro. |
Pak Narhoo
Knights of Kador
58
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Posted - 2011.12.02 08:51:00 -
[74] - Quote
My mornings only start when I have a good laugh. First thing I do therefor is to check the EVE forums.
Never failed me once.
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sYnc Vir
Wolfsbrigade
67
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Posted - 2011.12.02 08:53:00 -
[75] - Quote
Going to be honest, didn't read all of it because you became too stupid for me to care. However the parts I did read gave me a nice enough picture.
One, treating human players the same because "they act like bots so whatever." sounds like an excuse but Im guess anyone that took the time to write this post doesn't really need or want one, but it does. The fact that some gankers say they are "anti botters" yet target players using ORCAs shows they are lying. To the best of my knowlegde botters can't use a three hulk/orca combo yet hulks surrounding a orca are prime targets. Now if im wrong about that I will hold up my hands, but i don't believe I am.
Fact is, most gankers target miners because when a shield boosting hulk is your target, 4 or 5 volleys from thrashers is enough to kill it. It is nothing more then a Killboard epeen tool with a now increase profit from the salvage buff. I do mine in high sec from time to time, mostly watching sports. I will say thou with the new T2 gang links and an Orca at L4 the cycle time is now just 123.3 Seconds. So anyone using Three Hulks and an Orca is neither a bot or afk, yet Im sure they will be a target for "anti botters".
The simple truth is people attack miners because its easy, profitable, and will always make you killboard stats better. Those are the true reasons for it. Im not against that in general, I just get alittle pissed that alot of gankers are not honest about it and claim anti bot when going about it.
I think moving forward I would like to see the EHP of hulks improved, however I would frown apon them becoming ungankable as I don't believe anywhere in eve should be safe. My only breaking of that rule would be in 1.0 system for players under 60 days. Eve should reframe from scamming, killing and grifing players long enough for them to become invested so they don't just leave for something else.
And just for the record, I have myself reported people for botting, and was shocked to see them actually stop logging. As if someone actually banned them for a time. I may have also killed a few miners, I did feel bad but in my defence they were in lowsec. |
Lord Mandelor
Consolidated Holdings War Ensemble.
84
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Posted - 2011.12.02 09:12:00 -
[76] - Quote
That was a wonderful read. Thank you. ConHo Daily: http://conhodaily.blogspot.com Stories ranging from midgets inside your Damage Control to drones becoming self-aware. |
Rellik B00n
Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers The 0rphanage
43
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Posted - 2011.12.02 09:22:00 -
[77] - Quote
looks like the biggest load of bollocks/troll ever to me, especially when you consider that miners have by far the lowest isk/hour ratio in the whole game.
There is no justification at all for killing them, but if you need justification for anything you do in EvE theres something wrong with you anyway. Just kill em, doesnt need a 50 page OP to justify.
IF post = alt AND subject is positive for goons THEN assume goon alt post. |
Akrasjel Lanate
Naquatech Conglomerate
214
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Posted - 2011.12.02 09:23:00 -
[78] - Quote
TL;DR |
ariana ailith
Aribar Conglomerate
9
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Posted - 2011.12.02 09:34:00 -
[79] - Quote
tl;dr times 8
I didn't read it all but the first 2 posts are so flawed in reasoning its beyond worth caring for...
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Opertone
Signal 7
26
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Posted - 2011.12.02 09:35:00 -
[80] - Quote
EPIC READ!!!
finished 3 posts, will be back when I've done more |
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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
173
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Posted - 2011.12.02 09:42:00 -
[81] - Quote
Short version (Babyseal edition): - Miners don't shoot back, they are in fact rarely armed. - They provide a killmail. - Null monkeys, who are the most frequent gankers, are bored out of their minds in their home with bright blue walls on all sides.
Don't try to make more of it than it is. Give a child a magnifying glass and mention you saw an anthill nearby .. human behaviour is not rocket science.
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Imryn Xaran
Coherent Light Enterprises
10
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Posted - 2011.12.02 09:51:00 -
[82] - Quote
Never has so much crap been piled in one place. OP should be banned for littering.
I particularly like the bits where he knows exactly what other people are thinking and exactly what they would do if they could. With psychic abilities like that he is wasting his talents here.
Pity he doesn't have the guts to post with his main, so we could all see exactly who this tard is. |
Imryn Xaran
Coherent Light Enterprises
10
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Posted - 2011.12.02 10:00:00 -
[83] - Quote
McRoll wrote:1)
3) There seriously needs to be a complete mining redesign. It needs to be more interactive and it should involve some skill and/or knowledge in order to get the most isk out of it. That way people would actually play the game while mining and not just wait until the cycle completes. If CCP would do that, they can consider revamping missions as well (like adding Sleeper AI at least)
This is a very good point, and I wholeheartedly agree with it.
That is what people should be demanding from CCP; that is what the CSM should be hammering home; that is what mittens should be spending his time on.
Problem is that it isn't happening. Sure people have been asking for changes for some time, but the CSM isn't doing anything, and mittens is too busy suicide ganking (and paying others to suicide gank) to do anything.
Unfortunately miners pay subs and that is CCP's language. If the ganking reaches a level where CCP see a fall in subs as a result they will nerf ganking. Why? Because they can see cause and effect. Nobody is telling them how to fix the problems so they will fix the symptoms. |
Jarnis McPieksu
Aliastra Gallente Federation
66
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Posted - 2011.12.02 10:00:00 -
[84] - Quote
I approve this message.
This is also a perfect example why EVE is Different. Those who play it like other games cannot understand EVE and go off the deep end with rage when they are introduced to the grim aspects of it. It is more of a reflection of the real society we have in the western world today - laws, social norms, police... we all take them for granted and rely on the protection they offer, to a degree that acts that are similar to what miner suicide ganks are in EVE become totally alien and incomprehensible. "Why would anyone do something like that?"
Of course the vast majority who read this thread probably give up 1-2 posts in and fail to understand the point. It makes me feel sad about humanity in general.
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Seleia O'Sinnor
Arklight Project Fade 2 Black
14
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Posted - 2011.12.02 10:09:00 -
[85] - Quote
I laughed, too self righteous and populist. Another attention troll working hard, seems to work though.:)
I don't care for the gankers nor for the miners. If the miners are all gone, and hopefully no more minerals drops from drones, then I wonder how much a Rifter would be?
This sandbox can be broken.
If you compare Eve to human evolution I guess we are still in the medieval times not working with swords but laser cannons. It would be very interesting how Eve would evolve if there wasn't any hisec and no local. There are no consequences in this game. Eve community: An angry mob of bright people hunting witches, more torches, more hay forks, growing and growing. |
Stonecold Steve
I N E X T R E M I S Fidelas Constans
8
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Posted - 2011.12.02 10:15:00 -
[86] - Quote
i wonder what the prices to build stuff would rise to when we loose all of these machine man.. (-.-(-.-(-.-(-.-(-.-(-.-)-.-)-.-)-.-)-.-)-.-)-.-) Japanese yakuza watching you! GÇ£Quod licet Iovi non licet boviGÇ¥- Gods may do what cattle may not. "Amat victoria curam"- Victory favours those who take pains. |
Khanh'rhh
Sudden Buggery Dead On Arrival Alliance
436
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Posted - 2011.12.02 10:29:00 -
[87] - Quote
What is this about?
I ran out of day! /o\ - "Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual, issued in the 1930's |
Kyle Yanowski
Vanguard Exploration
2
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Posted - 2011.12.02 10:41:00 -
[88] - Quote
Look mate,
If your mug was so prominently displayed to the left of every bile filled paragraph, I would have assumed this was written by space H I T L E R himself.
This way of thinking only discourages NEW BLOOD from staying in Eve for the duration. Like myself, a new player understands that there are limitations to what can be accomplished in anything other than highsec.... limitations that are only lifted when SP reaches something above 5 million.
Get a life, you and the mittani, a target something that fights back.
cheers.
-ski |
Ocih
Space Mermaids
11
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Posted - 2011.12.02 10:43:00 -
[89] - Quote
Hirana Yoshida wrote:Short version (Babyseal edition): - Miners don't shoot back, they are in fact rarely armed. - They provide a killmail. - Null monkeys, who are the most frequent gankers, are bored out of their minds in their home with bright blue walls on all sides.
Don't try to make more of it than it is. Give a child a magnifying glass and mention you saw an anthill nearby .. human behaviour is not rocket science.
This.
Intelligent people see the complex in the simple. Wise people see the simple in the complex.
If you are corrupt it's better to be intelligent because you can remember everything wise people say and fake wisdom.
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Zagdul
Clan Shadow Wolf Fatal Ascension
217
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Posted - 2011.12.02 10:47:00 -
[90] - Quote
The only sad part of removing mining from asteroid belts in EVE would be the loss of tears from miners who think what they're doing is actually profitable. I had a dude in my corp who's sole purpose in EVE was to run a mining corporation and lead up a group of the most efficient mineral harvesters in EVE. The dude had a hulk that got killed one day and he never stopped crying about how that hulk, which he had for over 3 months was literally all of his isk.
I can make enough isk to buy a fleet of hulks in a couple hours not mining dude, why do you torture yourself like this?
Oh, before you ask where the minerals would come from; that's easy. They'd be harvested in compressed blocks from blank moons which hold no current valuable resources.
It's not Rocket Surgery |
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