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Gregor Parud
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Posted - 2015.02.19 21:22:16 -
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I'm liking this a lot, especially if it starts to replace the hilariously terrible tutorial texts which just result in new players going "holy crap, please kill me now". One thing though, please also include more "naughty" achievements. It doesn't have to be anything substantial but at least it conveys to "the right type of new players" that there's some tricks and fun to be had in EVE. |
Gregor Parud
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Posted - 2015.02.20 08:29:19 -
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I'm STILL very much in favour of overhauling the complete game introduction thing and newbie systems.
Why not start the game as a "CQ simulation" in a shielded set of systems (only accessed by new characters), where all the characters have a whole bunch of SP and have unlimited access to premade bigger/cooler ships, BS, perhaps logistics, inties and whatnot of all races. Where they can toy around, do funky tutorials "kill that BS with your bomber", "use this AF to kill a BC", "use this BR to evade a gatecamp", "use this orca to gang boost these npc miners for a minute (while having gang links explained in the mean time) after which you have to haul their mined ore back to station" etc etc etc. Funky stuff, advanced play styles but brought in a basic, easy to understand manner. Where every completed challenge would give that new character some related skills and assets upon completion of the entire tutorial.
And then do the whole "well soldier, that was the simulation. Now you're becoming a pod pilot" where they "clone" to the real game world and lose all those funky SP in the process. It would convey the lore, it would be awesome and it would give them some funky things to aim for because they're flown that funky ship or done that funky play style, now they KNOW what they want to be doing and training for. |
Gregor Parud
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Posted - 2015.02.20 19:41:25 -
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Darkblad wrote:Gregor Parud wrote:Why not start the game as a "CQ simulation" in a shielded set of systems (only accessed by new characters), where all the characters have a whole bunch of SP and have unlimited access to premade bigger/cooler ships, BS, perhaps logistics, inties and whatnot of all races. Where they can toy around, do funky tutorials "kill that BS with your bomber", "use this AF to kill a BC", "use this BR to evade a gatecamp", "use this orca to gang boost these npc miners for a minute (while having gang links explained in the mean time) after which you have to haul their mined ore back to station" etc etc etc. Funky stuff, advanced play styles but brought in a basic, easy to understand manner. Where every completed challenge would give that new character some related skills and assets upon completion of the entire tutorial. Rookies have other challenges to master that may appear tiny for veterans. Giving them the opportunity (sic!) to board a ship they can fly once they're adult but still being unaware of the core mechanics won't help that much. However, such experiences could certainly trigger an Opportunity, so once the rookie has reached a point where he did this all by himself provides some further feeling of having achieved something.
The tutorial should achieve two things:
- give newbies some basic knowledge (the current tutorial is retardedly long, boring and prone to make newbies quit) - make them go "holy shitballs, this is COOL!", that will result in them being more willing to invest time to conquer the initial brick wall
Giving them a Rokh with incoming NPC at 240km where they have to work to kill them all before they get too close will surely get their attention more than "sit here in this ibis with a single pop gun". Sharpshooter Opportunity and they get the skill. |
Gregor Parud
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Posted - 2015.03.02 12:47:11 -
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I've been trying to do the new NPE (lots of questions asked in Rookie I don't have an answer to) but I'm just not getting them. I created several alt accounts and tried 15 chars in total, none of then got the new NPE.
Is there any way to force it?
I'm old Gregor.
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Gregor Parud
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Posted - 2015.03.02 13:54:47 -
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Well, got it but oh boy... Don't get me wrong, I REALLY like the idea but the execution is horrible and it's amazing that for such a short bit of tutorial there's no many issues, mostly ones that could so easily have been avoided.
I approached it as a newbie and made notes on anything that made no sense and rather than try and bug report it somewhere (because we all know how well that works) I'll just dump it here.
* "Approach an Object" should state selecting a closeby NPC so it aproaches, if you select a celestial you don't get approach, this is not explained
* NPC need more EHP so you can actually read the "destroy your target" opp before you pop the target
* "Grab the loot" should include a cargo icon and explain looting range
* "orbit an asteroid" Should explain to switch overview to mining tab
* "lock an asteroid" should include locking via selected item window
There needs to be a better divider between the different main opportunities. Going from mining to explaining FTL needs a transition
* "faster than light" should mention to switch back to General/warp to overview tab
* "dock in a station" should, again, mention switching back to General/warp to overview tab
* Fit a module does not in any way explain how to organise the item hangar so one can drag the mod onto the ship. It could also talk about the window fetish EVE has and how to organise/close windows you don't need
* "Buy from the market" is a horrible mess that catches all newbies. Why not direct them to Trade Goods so they buy from cheap npc order. also it does not explain HOW to buy something, at all. The whole Opp makes no sense at the moment and tbh has no place here, newbie bought something, no idea what, and then the tutorial just goes on with undocking.
* "Start skill training" , why the HELL does this follow the "jump to new system" Opp? I'm hanging in space on a gate while doing the skill NPE.
* "inject a new skill" Asks me to buy a random skill (...) without explaining how to do it or which one to buy, while I'm still in space at a gate. It also mentioned ISIS for a brief second for no logical reason. This Opp catches all newbies out and frankly is a fcking mess. Also, newbies don't have the cash to buy a skill so that's kind of a deal breaker. Once (somehow) bought it's not explained how to find the station to get
This is dumb as hell.
* It needs an explanation transitioning from the NPE Opportunities system to the career agents window, and how to travel between several systems with the route and all that (the single jump one isn't enough).
I'm old Gregor.
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Gregor Parud
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Posted - 2015.03.02 15:29:41 -
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Now that I did the NPE I'm getting more and more angry because this is not a test on sisi, this is actually on TQ. I'm not talking about the UI or coding because that seems (for once) fine, one can always see improvements but on the whole it's workable and complete. I am talking about the actual tutorial text which is the EASIEST to get right.
We get newbies in Rookie channel frustrated, lost, screaming for help on how to buy "a skill" in a manner they don't know, from a place they're not at with money they don't have. There's so many obvious and easy to solve issues happening that one really has to wonder if people tested it at all. This whole thing reeks of amateurism and is a throwback to a CCP I'd rather forget ever existed.
Excellence is an attitude, this NPE is not that and in its current form it's doing more harm than good.
I'm old Gregor.
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Gregor Parud
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Posted - 2015.03.03 11:50:58 -
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CCP Wideo wrote:yyy wrote:I'm sitting in the Rookie Help channel, trying to help new players who have 'Opportunities' - omg it's chaos! Do CCP want to encourage new players or do they want to make them log off because that is what is happening. Come and talk to the people who are confronted with this when they first log in, then change it..... Hi there, I've been watching rookie chat whenever I can, but unfortunately can't always be there. Our thanks to you and everyone else who's been taking the time to help new players out. If you do find yourself talking to a new players in the opportunity system and they're lost or find something impossible to do then encourage them to submit a support ticket or bug report as is appropriate. Remember this is an experiment so any information we can get back from the new players is super valuable and will help us identify and fix issues.
I'm sorry but no. It shouldn't NEED to be bug reported as ANYONE who does this NPE finds the glaring issues straight away and if we players find them then one would expect that any half decent dev or QA would certainly find them. The fact that this actually made it to TQ in this form is terrible. See my above replies for the why and how.
Also: you don't experiment with newbies. If you want to try something new at least make sure it's decently complete and not half arsed or broken. |
Gregor Parud
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Posted - 2015.03.03 15:52:30 -
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Why not use the old fashioned stylised flash "movies" to explain stuff like that, accompanied by text. Those vids are easy to make (and edited later on if it's needed) and can be set to autorepeat showcasing what's explained while said newbie is reading the text. |
Gregor Parud
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Posted - 2015.03.04 13:12:39 -
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I made a YT info vid for two reasons:
- to help newbies deal with this NPE - to explain the problems and issues to people who are interested in this whole stuff
[sarcasm] It might be handy for devs to watch this because apparently videos like this are needed [/sarcasm]
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Gregor Parud
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Posted - 2015.03.06 08:04:11 -
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Well, it's actually worse than I thought. From a dev reply in Rookie channel to some rookie going "halp!" it pretty much seems as if the "buy skill book but you don't have any money so good luck with that" is intended.
It seems they're supposed to mine for it which, given how the concept of asteroid belts and the selling of ore is not explained, isn't exactly going to work, now is it. They're asking a newbie to mine 20-40k isk in an ibis, with one civvi mining laser... On top of that it seems they don't want customers who play a few hours before down time because by that time those asteroids (would a newbie even find them) will be empty.
I'm all for a more old school, less hand holding version of EVE but you do not achieve that by giving newbies nothing to work with, because that's just moronic. |
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Gregor Parud
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Posted - 2015.04.02 11:40:43 -
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This changed NPE is still as cringe worthy as the previous one, just in different ways. I can see that for some opportunities improvements have been made but the new ones are a hurdle as big as ever. I honestly, REALLY, don't get how this can happen and how people can not figure out that being rigged to fail is a bad thing to do.
There's a few "really?" situations going on, and then suddenly you get to "find a low slot item (...) and fit it". Ok, find it WHERE? And wtf is a low Slot Item? I stopped bothering checking the rest.
This sort of nonsense such a shame, the NPE mechanics are great and very much welcomed but it's as if the people deciding what to put in just aren't exactly on par. You guys really need someone who actually proof reads this stuff and is listened to when commenting. |
Gregor Parud
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Posted - 2015.04.06 07:42:17 -
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Well, here's my view on this iteration of the NPE and it's pretty much unchanged. |
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