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Boono
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Posted - 2006.09.19 15:21:00 -
[1]
Hi there,
I started a new character and noticed that he only had 17k SP. I heard on various places that you can start a character with well over 300k SP.
1) Is this true? 2) How do I set a new Minmatar character with the maximum SP I can get?
(He is meant to be a fighter between, but i am open to all suggestions and advice.)
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tre introv
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Posted - 2006.09.19 15:43:00 -
[2]
starting attributes are more important than starting SP. It wont benefit you any to start with 300k SP unless you can get those to pile up on the valuable skills.
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Guurzak
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.09.19 20:51:00 -
[3]
The way you start with lots of skill points is by choosing a custom career path with multiple bonuses to the same skill. One level-4 skill is a lot more points than 4 level-1 skills.
The general 'best' career path for most characters is Racial Military School: Operations: Command: Captain. This will start you with Racial Frigate IV and Spaceship Command II (Minmatar get Spaceships III with that path.)
Two builds can start with a level V skill: Amarr Khanid Cyberknights can start with Gunnery V, and Caldari Achuri Inventors can start with Science V. If someone's bragging about starting with 300K skillpoints, they did one of those.
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Tyris Maelstrom
Minmatar 5th Front enterprises New Eve Order
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Posted - 2006.09.20 01:08:00 -
[4]
Instead of Ship skill path you can choose gunnery aswell, except for Khanid it starts you with 4 Gunnery and 3 race weapon, Military School-Gunnery-Racial Gunnery-Advanced Racial Gunnery. So basically the same setup as the ship. So choose between higher starting ships, or higher weapon dmg.
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Esaka
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.09.20 02:30:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Tyris Maelstrom Instead of Ship skill path you can choose gunnery aswell, except for Khanid it starts you with 4 Gunnery and 3 race weapon, Military School-Gunnery-Racial Gunnery-Advanced Racial Gunnery. So basically the same setup as the ship. So choose between higher starting ships, or higher weapon dmg.
Well Gunnery has only a 1x multiplier, while Frig has 2x - so you save quite some time with picking the ship path. Even more if you consider that newbies probably don't have any learning skills and implants. I'm not really sure what the situation is for minmatar pilots, but at least for caldari your weapon skills aren't that important at the start. A better ship has a much bigger impact then some levels in your weapon skills. But like i said, i have no idea what is required to fit a half decent setup on a minmatar frig/cruiser. -------------------------------------- Agent & Mission-Info: http://www.eveinfo.com Evewide Market-Info: http://eve-central.com/ |
Akita T
Caldari Perkone
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Posted - 2006.09.20 02:51:00 -
[6]
The "best SP at start" possible (highlights in best skill levels other than the L5, 256k SP one).
Amarr khanid cyberknight: L5 gunnery, L4 small energy (any other khanids: L5 gunnery, L3 small energy) Caldari achura inventor: L5 science, L3 research Gallente jin-mei sang-do : L5 leadership, L3 gallente frigate Gallente jin-mei jing-ko : L5 gunnery, L3 small hybrid
ANY new character can also start with L4 frigate and L2 spaceship command (can get that L2 SSC up to L3 with minmatar brutor AFAIK). That's around 120k SP, more for minnie. __
ANY OTHER character creation "path" is well under 100k SP. And quite frankly, what's 20k SP, what's 80k SP... a couple of day's worth (literally) with the right attributes and minimal learning skills. __ Always question everything. Including yourself. |
Boono
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Posted - 2006.09.20 14:44:00 -
[7]
My question was specific to the Minmatar race.
It seems unbalanced that all other races can start with good SP while the Minmatar can only barely reach 50k SP.
300k Sp is almost a month of training. It is unfair that all the other races can get such a headstart and not the Minmatar.
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Guurzak
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.09.20 16:41:00 -
[8]
No, it's not a month of training.
The difference between starting as Minmatar with Frigate IV, and starting as an Amarr or Gallente with Gunnery V, is about 3 days of training with good implants and learning skills. Since the gunner needs Frigate IV a lot sooner than the frigatier needs Gunnery V, the difference is even less since the gunner probably won't have those implants and learning skills while he's training up his Frigate skill.
If starting with Gunnery V were such a huge advantage, the minmaxers would be flocking to Cyberknights and Jing-Ko instead of Caldari Achura. But no, for the most part they aren't, because it's not that big a deal.
In short: Deal with it or reroll. It's not an issue. Have a nice day.
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Cheese Burger
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Posted - 2006.09.20 16:45:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Boono My question was specific to the Minmatar race.
It seems unbalanced that all other races can start with good SP while the Minmatar can only barely reach 50k SP.
300k Sp is almost a month of training. It is unfair that all the other races can get such a headstart and not the Minmatar.
It seems that a Minmatar could start w/gunnery 4 and small proj turret 2...
->Siebester ->Rebel ->Milatry school ->keep picking gun ones
Theres a character creator tool at http://www.wium.net/nw/evetool/ theres probally a better min, that was just the first one I saw w/a bunch of sps.
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Akita T
Caldari Perkone
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Posted - 2006.09.20 16:46:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Boono My question was specific to the Minmatar race. It seems unbalanced that all other races can start with good SP while the Minmatar can only barely reach 50k SP. 300k Sp is almost a month of training. It is unfair that all the other races can get such a headstart and not the Minmatar.
You can only get to those "300k SP" starts using the NEW bloodlines. Too bad verkhior can't start with industry L5, it would have been only fair. Still, you have to train up racial frigate to L2 to even move out of your newbie ship if you pick that route. You can always go the L4 frig L2 SSC way (90kish SPs), which means you only have to train L3 SSC and then move on directly to cruisers (should not take longer than a couple of hours to get the skill up)... AND you get to fly any frig really well so you can scrounge up the ISK for a cruiser.
All "old" bloodlines could only start with around 92k SPs (L4 frig, L2 SSC)... EXCEPT minmatar that could start with a bit over 98k SP (L4 frig, L3 SSC). And they still can. This means they can start learning cruiser or industrial RIGHT AWAY, from char creation. 30 minutes from char creation to industrial or cruiser, I'd say that's not bad at all.
The "difference" of about 200k SP you get compared to the other "300k SP starters" means you have immediately useful combat skills (true, gunnery L5 and L3/4 small turret ain't bad either, stil you have to get into a better frig than the newbie ship). Oh well, in the "grand scheme", it's less than two week's worth. And by the way, SP <> game performance. You can have 2 mil SP chars kicking 15 mil SPs char's behinds easily in some circumstances (actually, make that a LOT of circumstances). __ Always question everything. Including yourself. |
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Sen Tzue
Caldari Eve Co-Operative Association
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Posted - 2006.09.20 18:25:00 -
[11]
Not hardly. I have 1900000 skill points after just about 55 days playing. That comes out to 34545 skill points per day or just over a million skill points a month.
Keep in mind those numbers are skewed by both an initial lack of learning skills, and the occiasional lapse on my part. Of course I started with about 90k so maybe that evens out.
So 300k saves you maybe 8.5 days. Meh. I'm not impressed. Thats with the assumption that those skills are actually useful for your plan. And again the actual numbers are less since once you have learning skills properly trained you can get the same skills in far less time than the numbers indicate (2 days 23 hours at my current level).
Show me a build that gives me Int 4, Memory 2 from the outset, that I'll get jealous over.
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Boono
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Posted - 2006.09.20 19:11:00 -
[12]
Quote: The difference between starting as Minmatar with Frigate IV, and starting as an Amarr or Gallente with Gunnery V, is about 3 days of training with good implants and learning skills.
That is offtopic.
My point was about the starting point, not how much time it represents. You talk about implants and learning skills, get one of those 300k starters races with the same implants and learning skills and they will stay ahead of the Minmatar character.
This is why I say it is unfair. Yes you can train those skills eventually, but you don't start off at the same level. For me 200-250k is a significant advantage, especially when all the races can do it but yours.
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Sen Tzue
Caldari Eve Co-Operative Association
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Posted - 2006.09.20 20:03:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Boono
I either couldn't be bothered to read, or wasn't able to understand what you other guys said.
Fixed that for you there.
Never thought I would do that, but you earned it.
It just doesn't matter. That's it. There is no more. By the time any of these races has enough money and know how to actually do anything that might warrant a comparison the difference between their starting SP will be irrelevant.
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Guurzak
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.09.20 21:28:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Boono
Quote: The difference between starting as Minmatar with Frigate IV, and starting as an Amarr or Gallente with Gunnery V, is about 3 days of training with good implants and learning skills.
That is offtopic.
My point was about the starting point, not how much time it represents.
Your point, in your own words, was that "300k Sp is almost a month of training. It is unfair that all the other races can get such a headstart and not the Minmatar." Your comment explicitly raises a complaint about a time-based imbalance. I was responding to that comment.
You complained that there was a month of headstart. That statement is factually incorrect. The actual headstart is approximately 2.5 days following the training sequences that players are likely to actually use.
Quote: You talk about implants and learning skills, get one of those 300k starters races with the same implants and learning skills and they will stay ahead of the Minmatar character.
Indeed. But the point is that the learning skills and implants accelerate skill gain to the point that any starting differences become trivial.
Quote: This is why I say it is unfair. Yes you can train those skills eventually, but you don't start off at the same level. For me 200-250k is a significant advantage, especially when all the races can do it but yours.
Caldari can only do it with science-based characters, so your "all but Mins" argument is only trivially accurate. Only Amarr and Gallente can start with level V in a combat skill.
More importantly, though, skillpoint totals are not the measure of game success. I'll match up a Frigate IV-built character against a Gunnery-V built character on the first day out of the gates, or one week later, or one month later, and feel confident I can hold my own. And the more time passes, the even more trivial that starting difference becomes.
The frigate character is actually *better off* than the gunnery character for quite a while. You need Frigate IV very early in your character's career, to unlock cruisers. You don't need Gunnery V for a long, long time... so until you reach that point, your 'headstart' is, for the most part, doing you very little good in terms of actual utility to the character.
Anyway. Yes, some races can start with a few more skillpoints than others. Feel free to play one of those characters if that's important to you.
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Boono
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Posted - 2006.09.21 01:10:00 -
[15]
I identify more with the Minmatar description, story, and background. The other races don't cut it for me on a role playing aspect.
I get your points. Yes you can catch up later on, and the starting SP do not condition your success or failure.
Still, every little helps when it comes to balance. I'd like to see this fixed to some extent by the developpers.
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Boono
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Posted - 2006.09.21 01:12:00 -
[16]
Quote: Theres a character creator tool at http://www.wium.net/nw/evetool/
Thanks for the link. However there is something I do not understand, they have options for "ancestory" and "school/university", but these options do not show in my character creation process. How do they work?
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Sandeep
Trojan industries
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Posted - 2006.09.21 06:04:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Boono Thanks for the link. However there is something I do not understand, they have options for "ancestory" and "school/university", but these options do not show in my character creation process. How do they work?
In the dropdown that says Custom, don't change it.
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Ogdru Jahad
Amarr
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Posted - 2006.09.22 00:23:00 -
[18]
I am super happy i got gunnery 5 to start off with. allowed me to start on my gunnery related skills much sooner :)
My chr was born on the 06/07/2006 and has broken the 3m sp mark. mind you most of it is in learning :)
in two weeks I will be border line 3.75m sp. thats 28 perception and 24 will power for you :) allows me to train them much needed gunnery and ship skills. Great Quotes...
INNOMINATE NIGHTMARE > Your mother is an Exotic Dancer and your Sister works in a Quafe Factory..... |
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